Paint God's 1st "How To". Stripping To Metal and Sealing

[Paint God]

After reading your guys requests I think it makes the most sense to just start from the top and work down.

Here is How to strip and seal a car, at home, on a budget.

The ultimate would be to have it blasted and sealed. You should not pay any more than 600-800 for the blasting (exterior only).

If you are on a budget here is what you do:smoke:.


Remove all exterior mouldings, door handles, bumpers, etc.
Tape off all of the glass with duck tape and cardboard (make sure you overlap the duck tape about 1/2 inch onto the body so that the stripper does not get into the cracks around the windows).
Tape all of the panel gaps, seams, and holes (door handles, marker lights, locks, antenna, etc) with duck tape. I usually cut the duck tape down to 1/2 strips to cover the panels gaps. Its ok to overlap the panel a bit. Trust me the biggest mess is if that stuff gets into any gaps, cracks, or holes.
Sand the surface with 80 grit on a DA (dual action sander) just to break the surface a bit. You don't need to sand it down far. You just want to penetrate the paint a bit so the chemical stripper does not have to fight through the top resin which is the toughest part of the paint.
Using a thick paint brush go ahead and apply the paint stripper as thick as you can (within reason) and let it sit as per the products instruction (usually 10-15 minuets).
Scrape with a sharp and wide putty knife.
Repeat this process as much as needed panel by panel.

The trick is to only concentrate on one panel at a time. If you take on to much it can get away from you and turn into a huge mess. If you take your time and do it few times per panel you would be surprised at how nice it can come out.

Once you have them all stripped just clean it up real nice and unmask it. Now you will have small strips of paint along the edge of each panel. I would use a 3M stripper disk (part 07470, http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pc-1...isc-07470.aspx (http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pc-13940-698-3m-scotch-brite-roloc-clean-strip-xt-disc-07470.aspx)) on a die grinder or high speed drill to strip it.

Now it is stripped. This is where most amateurs screw up. Most people don't etch the metal to give the primer or sealer a nice "tooth" to hang on to so the sealer or primer peels off or bubbles later on. The other huge mistake people make is to just throw some spray can primer on it. Spray can primer is usually lacquer based and has no corrosion resistance or etching capability. If you do not prep the metal properly and spray a good sealer over it you will be doing this all over again in a few years after you have put that nice paint job on it.

Metal cleaning, etching, and priming.

First thing to consider is that you have everything you need from this point to sealer right in front of you. You do not want the car to sit for days in bare metal before you seal it. If you could knock this all out in a weekend (providing that the car is inside a garage or shop) the better. If you are doing this outside you need to get it done same day.
DA sand the entire body with 80 grit. Sand it till it is clean and shiny.
Clean metal with a good acid metal etch cleaner. I like PPG's DX579. http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/rustremove.aspx (http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/rustremove.aspx)). Just follow the instructions. Make sure you get the car super dry after the wash.
Now the metal is clean and etched. It should have a slight goldish tone to it.
Tape it up and apply 2 coats epoxy sealer. I prefer PPG's DP line but if you are on a budget I would use Northstars EP210 epoxy primer (http://www.computerlogic.com/northst...urfacers.htm#a (http://www.computerlogic.com/northstar/northstar-products-primersurfacers.htm#a)). This stuff is just as good as DP but half the price.


Now It might seem a little intimidating if you have never sprayed before. Don't sweat it. Just go and buy a Cheap HVLP gravity fed gun from somewhere like Harbor Freight Tools. Just keep the pressure down around 15 psi and it is cake. That primer is very easy to spray. Don't even worry if you get a little run here and there. You are going to sand the hell out of this car along the process anyway. Just make sure you get a nice thick coating over the whole car. A couple of coats should do it, but 3 would not hurt.

By my calculation you should be able to do this whole process for about 300-400 bucks and it will be done right.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Excellent. Thread stuck.

Thanks.

[1969CamaroRS]

Great "How-To" thanks!

[Greg from Aus]

Thanks for taking the time to help us Guys out :cool:

[justasquid]

awesome start.

I'm looking forward to the next post.

[Cutls67]

I guess this is not s stupid question but sounds stupid to me. But will the paint stripper also remove the body sealer in the gaps, say like on the firewall? But I can't wait for more info since I am totally ignorant on body works.

Thanks
STephan

[jackfrost]

Most of the instructions I've seen for epoxy primer don't mention acid etching the surface first. Is it necessary? Or just good insurance? What exactly does it do?

btw, thanks for the how-to's.

[jackfrost]

one note on blasting - if you are taking the car to a place to have it blasted, remove any seam sealer or weatherstripping goo or anything else glued to the body, because the blasting will not remove it.

[Paint God]

Most of the instructions I've seen for epoxy primer don't mention acid etching the surface first. Is it necessary? Or just good insurance? What exactly does it do?

btw, thanks for the how-to's.

It is good insurance. From my experience I can tell you it is very important.

As far as blasting it really depends on which media you use. If you use a mineral blast it will remove all of that stuff including rust.

[Topless69]

This is GREAT...!! Thanks sooo much for sacrificing some of your time to start this from the begining. In the back of my head I know I can do this with great results but can use step by step info. Yah buy a book everyone says but I think yacking back and forth this way will be WAY more informative than a book.:worship:

[T_Raven]

This is GREAT...!! Thanks sooo much for sacrificing some of your time to start this from the begining. In the back of my head I know I can do this with great results but can use step by step info. Yah buy a book everyone says but I think yacking back and forth this way will be WAY more informative than a book.:worship:

x2. I've read quite a few books on paint and it's always basic, generic info. It's nice to have a detailed example like this one.

[70LS6TransAM]

Great thread!

Stupid question:

I'm going to start stripping down the left 1/4 on my TA to see the extent of the rust damage so I can assess whether to replace sections or the entire 1/4. Should I still shoot primer on it after it's stripped or is there something else I can use to prevent flash rust while assessing the damage and working on it? It seems like a waste to shoot it with primer if I end up needing to replace the entire 1/4.

This is all new to me so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[redzula]

I agree do you do this before any body work or what. I not too keen on priming the whole thing just to cut into it and mess up all my work

[70LS6TransAM]

Hey Redzula, here's a link to a "primer" (pun intended) that I found on stripping, priming and dealing with rust.

Looks like the advice from our "Holyness" goes for panels whether they need to be repaired or not. It looks like we're going to need to prime the stripped panels before taking on repairs.

http://www.camaros.net/shop/resto_3.html

Hope I'm not highjacking the thread; just trying to pass along an answer to an unaddressed question.

[redzula]

thanks trans am. I needed to get that figured out cause my first group of replacement panels should be here later this week so i gotta get it stripped and aparently primed asap.

good write up btw
and we just wont tell them you stole it. ha ha

[tazinhawaii]

I agree do you do this before any body work or what. I not too keen on priming the whole thing just to cut into it and mess up all my work

X2...

Is this just to seal the car before body work, or do you mud/block sand over the etching primer?

Derrick

[IndyNova]

so what is your guys opinions of blasting? worth the risk of warpage? it's cheaper than chemical dipping though!

[TA219]

I wish I had this information a year ago! I primed my car with a 2k high build primer and never knew I had to put an epoxy on first.... needless to say I had to sand the car back down and start over... It is worth it knowing that it is done right.

[jackfrost]

so what is your guys opinions of blasting? worth the risk of warpage? it's cheaper than chemical dipping though!

just have your guy avoid any large flat areas, like the roof, quarters, doors, etc. these sections are easy to do with a strip disc or DA.

[Happyfunballs]

I wish I had this information a year ago! I primed my car with a 2k high build primer and never knew I had to put an epoxy on first.... needless to say I had to sand the car back down and start over... It is worth it knowing that it is done right.


It's nice to put it over an epoxy, but isn't absolutely necessary.

[jfoster]

That's quite a savings. To put it in perspective - I recently got a quote to blast my 68 coupe and then apply two coats of epoxy primer. $2200. That's inside,outside and under - basically everything they can get to.

[David Sloan]

That's quite a savings. To put it in perspective - I recently got a quote to blast my 68 coupe and then apply two coats of epoxy primer. $2200. That's inside,outside and under - basically everything they can get to.


And depending on the car, how many coats of paint,rust, and under coating thats not a bad price.

[a73formula]

I got a quote for blasting for $600 for the car, can't imagine spraying would be that much more. Right now I know a lot of places will go lower if you talk cash with them too. Awesome thread, answered a lot of questions for me.

[vintageracer]

Just do it like they do in Bangadesh. Take a hack saw blade and start scrapping diagaonlly across the metal part you wish to strip.

It's a lot of work but it's cheap and works!!!

[bochnak]

What brand of stripper is best?

[vintageracer]

What brand of stripper is best?

Binford brand hack saw blades work best!

[CRCRFT78]

Hey PaintGod, anymore "How-to" tips other than this one?

[brsphil1]

The paint on my project is in pretty good shape but looks like it's been backyard painted twice.

What are reasons for a complete paint strip?
Paint buildup?
Peeling?
Rust?

[ROBS6T8]

The paint on my project is in pretty good shape but looks like it's been backyard painted twice.

What are reasons for a complete paint strip?
Paint buildup?
Peeling?
Rust?

All three you mentioned are great reasons. If your going to put thousands into your paint, why not have a piece of mind that you're starting with fresh metal. Who knows how many coats of paint have been put on these cars over the last 40 years or more. The thicker the paint gets the more chance of failure.
On another note, make sure you follow the paint manufacturers tech sheets. HOK does not recommend using any acid based etchers with their KD2000 DTM primer. I'm using HOK and I have downloaded every tech sheet they have on all of their products. A lot of info to help the first timers. After reading the sheets, a lot of questions are answered. Even for the novice.

Robert

[67 Camaro]

so what is your guys opinions of blasting? worth the risk of warpage? it's cheaper than chemical dipping though!


Although you can also do some of your own sand/media blasting at home with a jerry rigged bucket and hose set up. I've found that if you venture down to the industrial parts of town that do chem dipping you can talk them down to some reasonable prices. i'm getting mine dipped and sealed for about $1,500. however i'm putting an all out effort into my resto, so i guess it just depends on what your budget is and the depth of your resto.

[Paint God]

Do not dip! I dont care what you are told, you can never neutralize the acid and it will seep out later and ruin your paint job. We have experienced this several times.

[elitecustombody]

Do not dip! I dont care what you are told, you can never neutralize the acid and it will seep out later and ruin your paint job. We have experienced this several times.

if it's stripped in alkaline,it will not hurt anything, it costs about 5k to do the stripping and e-coating

[Paint God]

I am still against it. there is just no way to get it out of every nook and cranny. I worked for a group that restored vintage Ferrari's for several years. These guys insisted on an alkaline dip. Every single car we did (5 of them over a year span) bubbled around seems, jambs, and all those hard to get out spots. Im not saying it cant be done, I just like to pass on my experience. When you put thousands if not tens of thousand of dollars worth of work over metal you just want to make sure its going to stay!:smoke:

[elitecustombody]

pardon my lack of knowlege on Ferrari,but didn't they build them out of alumimum?

[Rick D]

"pardon my lack of knowlege on Ferrari,but didn't they build them out of alumimum?"

The older Ferrari are steel and the newer Ferrari are alumimum and composit not shure when they switched.

[arue333]

Paint God- Getting ready to strip and pain my whole car, These threads are amazing!
-Thanks a Ton!

Thomas

[Paint God]

pardon my lack of knowlege on Ferrari,but didn't they build them out of alumimum?
Some of the super-light race cars and various panels over the years were aluminum, but for the most parts the cars were made from light gauge steel.

[CRCRFT78]

Love all the info. :twothumbs

[MonzaRacer]

If the dipper isnt skilled in their art/profession yes you will get bleeds and runs from the acid/alkaline solution.
Properly dipped cars get holes drilled (small easily repaired holes) in strategic areas so as to NOT get air bubbles and should be dipped in stripper, then they usually get a power wash, then dipped in a neutralizer, then power washed again, then washed in water, good strippers will have body on rotisserie and will rotate the body in both the stripper, neutralizer and plain water or plain water/antirust coating, also they will get baked in a heated booth for several hours to dry them out before hand cleanup and either sipping in primer bath or sprayed in etching type primer/rust inhibitor.
This is why it cost a lot to do it properly. when properly done you dont get bleed through or paint damage later on.
Last car I saw done was perfectly dry, the coating/primer wasnt perfect but it had no rust, when the box frame was cut for a mini tub it was spotless.
Too bad so many people have had bad results as chemical stripping is a great way to clean just about any large component. I saw this process done and they also did things like old tractors, heavy equipment.
Proper process is all it takes and it costs.
Had thought of offering it in my business but that wont happen in near future, but maybe later on.

[CRCRFT78]

Where did you see this process done correctly? Was it a local business you've used or something on tv/in a magazine.

[rockytopper]

Paint god thanks so much for you input. I tried to do one panel at a time but the weather turned cold and I could not shoot primer so I kept sanding. I have been using a DA with 80 grit and just removing the paint to bare metal for the most part. I was not intending to remove all the paint except where body work was needed or it was loose, cracked ,or had holes etc... I was planning to remove all paint on all edges to bare metal. The paint on the car is the factory gm from 1965. I have been doing a lot of body work fillling in all the trim holes because I have removed the trim along the sides and front. I used jb epoxy weld to fill in the big holes and then smoothed it out with a thin layer of bondo on top. The bare metal has already started to oxidize it has been bare about 3 weeks. Do I need to do something different to the raw surface sense oxidation has already started or just sand it clean when it warms enough to paint and follow your instructions? If I do not remove all the old paint will that be an issue with your method? Here are a few pic's of it's current state. The paint that is left on has been sanded very hard with 80 grit and is very solid on the car. I was planning to just use etching primer on bare areas then primer then paint. Please advise. Perhaps I should just strip all to bare metal but I would like to aviod paint stripper. Also the rear quarter has been repaired with filler before I got the car 12 years ago. The repair is done very well and is very straight no issues to date. This is another reason I did not want to totally strip the car.

Thanks
Rocky

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/DSC08141-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/DSC08134-1.jpg

[Paint God]

Hey Rocky,

Well, I dont really like your idea of using JB weld to fill holes. If you cant weld the holes I would use one of 3M's metal bonding products or even a fiberglass reinforced filler such as dynaglass to fill the holes.

With that said, what you are doing is fine. Obviously the best thing to do is to strip it to metal and then prime it with an epoxy. Unless your temperature is down below zero you should be able to shoot an epoxy over the metal. I have sprayed epoxy with a low temp hardner and reducer in the 15-20 degree range (burrrrr). Id recommend a good propane heater.

If you are going to let it sit in bare metal for a while than just make sure you knock off the surface rust as soon as its visible. Dont let it collect. Stay on top of it.

As far as painting over the old original paint, just make sure you prime it really good before painting. I would say that it will have a short life span if you don't strip it and you don't really know how long that will be. Your kind of a test pilot at that point.

[rockytopper]

Thanks much PG. The JB weld idea came from a local paint & body shop that quoted 10k to restore this car. I have seen his work it is very good but can't say how long it will last as you say nothing is better than just welding it. I was told the jb weld will not crack and will expand with the metal better than the bondo products. We shall see. I once help repaired a cummins engine that had a cracked cylinder with JB weld. It was still pulling a load a year later when the semi was sold. I will follow your instructions and stay on top of the rust in the areas that are now exposed. I will attempt to remove all the paint I can and may even go the stripper method as you have outlined. FYI I do have a propane heater but I can't get it above the 65 degree mark I have a large tall barn to much space to heat with this little unit. We woke to a foot of snow this morning and we are in Texas. I know I know that just a dusting to most of you folks but we rarely even see the white stuff in these parts.
Thanks again
Rocky

[FroopieLoopies]

Awesome!!!!!!

[MaxBuilder1]

Paint god's thanks, another very happy person. Just curious how long would you say a car could be in epoxy primer for before it would be necessary for paint. the car would be in the garage out of the elements. Thanks again finally ready to take it on.

[MaxBuilder1]

Paint god's thanks, another very happy person. Just curious how long would you say a car could be in epoxy primer before it would be necessary for paint. The car would be in the garage out of the elements. Thanks again finally ready to take it on.

[Paint God]

Here it is

[ROBS6T8]

Here it is

Yes? :confused: