Hello to All/New Guy in CA

[70LS6TransAM]

Hello everyone,

Just joined the site last night. I have a 1970 Trans Am that I bought with no drive train; it's pretty much a basket case in need of some sheet metal replacement, but what the heck, it's still a '70 TA...

Plans include an LS1/LS6 with T-56 tranny and a deep wheel tub kit from Detroit Speed. I know the Trans Am purists will probably hate me, but what's the sense of taking it back to "original" condition when there's no way it can ever be totally original? It's my car, right?

First on the list is the tub/trunk pan/tail light section/rear valance replacement. Should look bad ass with some huge meats tucked under!

It's going to take a while, but I'll get there. That's what projects are for, right?

Looking forward to learning a lot from everyone!

Randy

[1971CHEVELLE]

Welcome to the site

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Welcome to the site, Randy.

[6'9"Witha69]

Welcome to the site. IMO the early 70s birds are the next best looking car ever to a '69 Camaro.

Welcome to the site!

[icebird84]

Welcome to P.T Randy

[79-TA]

Welcome to the site, fellow TA owner. I don't mind people upgrading their TA's, just don't make it look stupid. :)

[70LS6TransAM]

Oh man, you mean I have to tear up my shopping list for Pep Boys??? Rats...

And I guess there go the plans for cutting an opening for a Shaker hood scoop in the center of a Formula hood...

Really, you should see my TA. When I bought it, it had black & gold speckled vinyl diamond tuck interior everywhere, and the dash was painted black with a gold dash inlay. They totally ruined the original Bright Blue interior...total pimpmobile...

Then there are the front AND rear molded wheelwell spats, molded trunk spoiler...too bad I don't have stock in Bondo...

It will be tastefully modded, trust me. It will be a TA to be proud of.

6'9"Witha69: The '69 Camaro was my favorite car when I was growing up; I had always wanted one.

My TA is just me compensating for when I traded my '69 Mach 1 for a Karman Ghia back in the mid '80's - bought the 'Stang for a whopping $1,800...D'oh! :hammer:

[CRCRFT78]

Welcome
:postpics:

[NOT A TA]

YE HAW! Another 70! Now there's almost as many of us as there are 69Camaros! LOL Welcome Randy! Lets see some pics! Don't worry, nobody here will hate you for building what you want. Quite the opposit, they'll try to get you as far from stock as possible.

[Motown 454]

Welcome !

[1nkred1ble]

Good Luck!!!
What part of Ca????

[novanutcase]

Welcome from another Cali Guy!

John

[mpozzi]

If you're free the first weekend in April, come down to the Good Guys show at Del Mar. There's tons of Pro-Touring cars there and most will either be parked or in motion at the autocross course.

You can either bring your car or leave it home if it's not running. DSE will have their booth there as well as other vendors. It's a fun time. The autocross is on Friday and Saturday only.

You can also get rides at the autocross and that's a lot of fun. And, of course, welcome to the site ...

Mary Pozzi

[70LS6TransAM]

Thanks for the nice welcome everyone!

CRCRFT78 - I'm uploading photos to my Photobucket account and will post them shortly. Right now the TA is not much to look at, she's pretty much a basket case - but...since you asked for them...right now the tail light/lower valance section is completely cut out and part of the trunk pan is cut out as well. That's what convinced me to go with the DS deep tubs and lean toward pro-touring - easy access to do the tubs...

1nkred1ble- I'm located in Yucaipa.

Mary - thanks for the info on the GG Del Mar show. I'll check it out and see if I can make it down. It sounds like it's a great show and I'd love to check it out.

Once I post photos, I hope everyone won't be too critical - the TA is a project car in every sense of the word. But I guess at least you'll all be along for the journey as it comes along.

Once I made the decision to go PT with the car, I've have a new-found excitement for working on it!

[BossaNova]

A '70 T/A with no drive train?

Sounds perfect!

[70LS6TransAM]

Yep, BossaNova, it took me a while to decide what to do with the TA - it is the perfect car for a PT project...

Here are some photos:

Delivery Day

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/DeliveryDay002-1.jpg

If you look real hard you can see remnants of the original Polar White paint.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/TAleftfrontshot-1.jpg

Notice the "custom" diamond tuck interior and gold-painted dash bezel...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/DeliveryDay003-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/DeliveryDay005-1.jpg

Let's not forget the custom package tray...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/DeliveryDay004-1.jpg

Not to be outdone, check out the custom wood shifter bezal and t-handle...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/31617005-1.jpg
You can also see hints of the Bright Blue interior...

This is a photo of the rear end; didn't look too bad...I bought the car sight-unseen...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/TArear-1.jpg

Removing the fiberglass cover and bumper reveal the extent of the rust damage...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/123007002-1.jpg

Tail light panel and lower valance are off...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/TailSection005-1.jpg


Been sittin' out in a few too many Indiana winters...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/TailSection017-1.jpg

The good thing is that the frame rails are in great condition; the damage is only to the sheet metal. The DS deep tubs are going to look SO good in her!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/42408007-1.jpg

Here's a photo of the '73 Formula donor shell that I'll be using the tail light panel, lower valance, floor panel patches and various other patches from. Picked it up for $200; not a bad deal considering the tail light section/lower valance aren't being reproduced...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/22108002-1.jpg

Like I said, she's a project car in every sense of the word...

[70LS6TransAM]

Does anyone know of any '70-73 'bird cars on the site that I can check out?

[86regalss]

oh my god... thats alot of work. welcome

[Rag-Rat]

This looks like a great build project. I like it when the change is this dramatic. I built a 67 Camaro convertible basketcase into a beautiful show/street car. It took 7 years but was well worth it. Kudo's to you for saving it. Make it the way you'll enjoy driving it. Love the 2nd gen F-bodies, to this day, the one I had is the only car I ever regret selling. Had a WS6 4WDisc 4spd car. Man that thing could handle from the factory.

[1969CamaroRS]

Welcome
:postpics:

x2 And welcome!

[SS1156]

WOW......That interior is straight out of a Cheech & Chong movie. Nice find though. I love 70-73 T/A's. Welcome to the site.

[70LS6TransAM]

SS1156: Yeah, it was hard to rip out all of that custom work...I just wonder what in the HELL they were thinking...Wonder if that was Nice Dreams or Up in Smoke that they got the idea from...

Rag-Rat: Thanks for the words of encouragement; it's nice to know that not everyone thinks I'm nuts to take on a project of this magnitude. But to me, it will be worth it; as you said, to build it the way I'll enjoy it, and not listen to the TA purists on certain Pontiac sites who would consider what I'm doing blasphemous...

Did you document your build? I'd really like to check it out and see a fellow basket-case-to-riches story.

I'm also going with with a narrowed Pontiac disc posi rear end out of a late 2nd gen TA.

Well, I've ordered the Detroit Speed CD and templates so I can get an idea of what's involved to install the deep tubs. Next on the shopping list are the tubs, a MIG welder and the trunk pan. I'll post photos in the Projects thread as I get into it.

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone; I know I'll be reading a lot of posts and will posting a lot of questions as I go along. Looking forward to it!

[Rag-Rat]

Here is a finished picture. I can't find my early pictures at the moment. My brother gave me crap and said the only part of the original car I kept was the trans tunnel and windshield frame, LOL, he was close. I also bought a second car for donor parts because back then all of the Chinese stampings weren't available. I was lucky to start it when NOS fenders, door skins, quarters, tail pans even bumpers were still available. The hood and deck lid were used parts. Nobody else was gonna save this heap. 20 years ago they crushed them even though it is a real RS/SS. You couldn't tell because it had so much damage and rust.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/915887R10717_008-1.jpg

[69Camaro/70 Velle]

That is soooo cool. Love the diamond tuck or not. Looks the way my Camaro looked when I drug it home. Have fun and welcome to the site.

[NOT A TA]

Does anyone know of any '70-73 'bird cars on the site that I can check out?


Here's a couple pics of mine and a link to my current safety upgrade thread. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48151

Check before you throw out anything from that car. There's a bunch of things that are 70 only and guys are dying to have them for correct restos. Even if you think the parts a piece of junk they may want it. As an example, while you might decide to replace the front fenders with a set from a later year to avoid the rust repair there's guys dying for a set of 70's because they weren't designed to have a radiator support bar bolted to them above the inner fenderwell and they want that stamping. See the thread on Performance years http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580525

I've got a couple buddies with 70's also so between us we could probably answer any of the 70 specific questions you might have. Send me a PM if I can help ya out with anything.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/09/IMG_0198-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/09/IMG_01991-1.jpg

[70LS6TransAM]

Chris - You're Camaro is beautiful! Trans tunnel and windshield frame or not, you've done an absolutely outstanding job of bringing her back! Hopefully you'll be able to dig up a photo of her when you first bought her; that would be cool to see what she looked before you started working on her. Now she looks like she just rolled off the showroom floor! I can only hope my TA comes out as nice as your RS/SS; those cars - especially the convertables - are definetly worth saving, no matter how much work needs to be done to them.

Joe - Yeah, I guess I should't be too critical of the "custom" interior; it was probably done back in the day when that was the cool thing to do. I know I did my share of stupid mods to a '69 Mustang I had back in the day...

John - You're 'bird is awesome! I love the TT II wheels and - the sidepipes - those are very cool. You might have the only early 2nd gen with sidepipes! That's a great thread on the safety items as well. Is your shaker functional? I picked up a functional shaker from a '74 GTO for my TA. I'm not sure at this point how the shaker will attach to an LS6...

I'm not sure if they make the TT II's deep enough for deep wheel tubs, but those are the wheels I'd like to go with. I'm thinking I want to go with black wheels, I think it will make a nice contrast to the Polar White/blue strip paint job (original to the car) that I want to go with.

The fenders - Thanks for the advice. I actually picked up a mint pair of fenders about a month ago off an '81 Turbo TA that got t-boned, $200 for both of them. They're in perfect condition; the car had just been painted before it got hit.

I'll take a look at the fenders that were on my TA; I took them off but I still have them. I know I'll need the brackets off them that the lower valance bolts up to (which the fenders do have), but I don't want to mess with them as far as putting them back on the car and I'm not concerned with whether or not they have the radiator support bar.

You know, it makes it a lot easier to work on the TA knowing I don't have to be concerned about having every little thing original. I would never even think about doing a pro-touring project on it if it was anywhere near being original.

I'll check out the thread on PY and check out the stampings. I'm also a member of PY, my user ID is 70RamAirIIITA.

Thanks for the offer to PM you to pick your brain; I'll take you up on it for sure.

[70LS6TransAM]

John - I just read that thread on PY - those guys are just WAY too picky! I got a headache reading that thing! Now I'm REALLY glad I'm not going to try to take the TA back to original!

[mc84_zz4]

That is going to be a fun project, a friend resurrected a 69 firebird and it had a lot of rust on window edges, floors, firewall, hood, etc, he now is real good with a welder, and the car is fantastic. For the price, how an you beat that.

Whenever I hear TA and pro-touring, this pops in my head:
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=4
They are pricey, but damn they are cool!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[70LS6TransAM]

Oh yeah, I've seen those; those are the same rims Burt has on his resurrected TA. They are cool, but, you know, I've always associated snowflakes with the late 2nd gen 'birds. I could never figure out why someone with an early 2G bird would want to put snowflakes on one, to me they don't look right on an early 'bird. Well, something to think about; they do come in 18 x 12 and in black...

I've always liked 5-spoke wheels, like TTII's, etc...70's came with 15" Rallye II 5-spokes...

How long did it take your friend to finish his '69?

BTW - this goes out to everyone - how much should a decent used LS6 bare block with main caps cost?

[70LS6TransAM]

I went on to American Racing's site. They don't have the black Torq Thrust M in a large enough size. They do have the TTM in Anthracite in 17 x 10.5:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/TTM-1.jpg

[NOT A TA]

Hey Randy I forgot to direct you to Ty's car here's a link https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49145&highlight=fletchers+customs And "Splitter" https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35115&highlight=splitter and a 70 build going on now by cdoggy81 https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50475

You might also want to check with one of the site sponsors that sell ARE wheels. You're probably going to end up getting custom backspace wheels to get the fit correct.There's been a bunch of things going on with the company and they may have things available that aren't on the website. I had my TTII's custom made a few years ago so I could get the most tire under the car without minitubbing or rolling the wheelwell lips. I have 17x 11's out back with a 315 35 17. The early 2nd gen birds have a different wheelwell and shape of the fender than the later model birds and Camaros so thats why you see the later birds and Camaros getting tubbed. If I remember correctly 275 is about as wide as they can fit without mods. I think they put the mini tubs in Splitter and run an 18 x 12 with a 335 tire with a rolled fender lip.

[NOT A TA]

Randy, yes my shaker is functional, it is always open. There are vacume operated flapper kits available to "open" the flapper when you romp on it but for my car I'd rather spend the money on other stuff. Sidepipes are also functional.

The late 2nd gen fenders are going to need some mods to work on your 70 and a good place to find out exactly what those mods are is by doing a search on TRANSAMCOUNTRY.COM a site dedicated to 2nd gens. I've seen some discussions there about modding the later fenders to work on the earlier ones. Not a lot of PT -G machines there but there's quite a few nice restified cars. They tolerate those of us that like lots of mods and are interested in our cars.

[NOT A TA]

here's a 315 35 17 on my 70

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/MVC046F-1.jpg

[70LS6TransAM]

Hey John,

Thanks for all of the info and advice, you're awesome and so is your '70. The 315's out back are simply bad ass. Good call on contacting some of the sponsers to see if I can get some 18 x 12's in black; I'll definetly check into that. You know, I'd be pretty disappointed if I could't get those, my heart is just about set on black.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/TorkThrustMBlack-1.jpg

I think the TA would look seriously sinister with these bad boys tucked under with some huge meats.

I bet your '70 turns heads where ever you go. Hell, you can even see that guy with the beard in the background of one of the photos you posted is envious! I would be at work all day just waiting until I got home to drive her - or even just to LOOK at her! It's such a cool car! That's the way I want to feel toward my TA... and since I've decided to go PT with her, that excitement is already starting to build...

What type of drivetrain are you running?

Now you have me thinking of selling the GTO shaker and just going with a cut out shaker. The shaker was one of the things that first attracted me to early TA's. Well, that and the fender vents, front & rear spoilers, wheel spats...

Thanks for the info for the fenders; I'll check out TAC and see what modifications to be done.

Thanks for the links to the builds; that will save me a lot of search time and I'm sure will make for some riviting reading. Man I am so glad I found this site - I'm more stoked now than I've ever been since I've owned the TA!

[NOT A TA]

Randy You may be able to get the wheel you want and then have them powder coated to the color you want. If you're not going to drive in extended periods of rain an opened up shaker will work fine and you can sell the functional flapper one to finance other stuff.

I'm running a Pontiac 400 with # 16 heads, with lots of goodies,set up for track use. Current trans is a T350 with a kit etc. I have a few different rear ends I swap in and out depending on the type of event and slicks and skinnys for the strip as well as the TTII Yokohama combo for high speed and road track use. I'll be installing a much more powerfull engine and 5 speed manual. I'm probably going with an IA II type block setup built to push the car up to 200 MPH.

[70LS6TransAM]

Hey John,

I'll ask the sponsors about powdercoating the wheels, hopefully I'll be able to can find someone who can do it. I don't plan on driving the TA in the rain so the the opened up shaker should work fine. I can certainly put the money I get from the GTO shaker to good use.

Wow, it sounds like you're really into racing the 'bird, that sounds like a blast. It sounds like you have a nice drivetrain set up, but your future set up with the IA II will be very bad ass.

Okay - stupid question time. I like the look of your sidepipes; I like the look of the side exhaust. Rather than going with sidepipes, I was thinking about maybe trying to figure out a way to do a side exhaust exit like some of the Mustang kits have; having the exit just in front of the rear wheel spat. Is something like this do-able without looking like I just walked out of Pep Boys?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/ba73_12-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/sideexitexhaust2-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/sideexitexhaust-1.jpg

Just thought of maybe doing something different than having the pipes come out the back...

[70LS6TransAM]

Another photo of what I'm thinking about...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/mustangsideexhaustwithskirt-1.jpg

[NOT A TA]

I don't know about the bodywork involved in making side skirts that could house the exhaust but I've seen threads about side exhaust using oval tubing. Looks pretty cool like NASCAR style and you won't burn yourself as easily as mine will.

A buddy of mine's got a Roush and the exhaust looks cool but doesn't have the same deep sound as big pipes. I believe that the ovalized tubing comes up to 5" which is pretty big. Maybe do a search in the exhaust forum and see what comes up. Another benefit of ovalized tubing is ground clearance. Some of the builders are using the side exit ovalized now because it starts getting difficult to route the exhaust through aftermarket suspension systems.

You can get the wheels powdered locally if you can't find a manufacturer or retailer to do it before shipping.

Here's the only video clip I've ever had since I go to the tracks by myself. A buddy came to watch and took this quick clip at Road Atlanta during a N.A.S.A. HPDE event with his wifes camera and sent it to me. Crank up the volume and you can hear what the pipes sound like.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/th_MVI_0069-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Firebird/?action=view&current=MVI_0069.flv)

[PonchoJohn]

Perhaps something like this....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/lower_control_arms_026263x233-1.jpg
You're gonna need a mess of his stuff... www.pro-touringf-body.com (http://www.pro-touringf-body.com)

[PonchoJohn]

You might wanna keep the Formy and build it... that T/A's is definitely rough.

[NOT A TA]

You might wanna keep the Formy and build it... that T/A's is definitely rough.

From what I can see on my little laptop PonchoJohn may have the best idea for you. I can only imagine what that TA body would look like after a stripper got ahold of the shell.

[Rag-Rat]

Here you go Randy, pretty bad to start with huh?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/006_62-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/010_101-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/021_211-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/033_33-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/034_34-1.jpg

Anything is possible, all it takes is money.

[70LS6TransAM]

John: Thanks for posting the racing photo, your 'bird sounds really mean and it looks like it's on rails going through the corners. Road racing looks like great fun!

PonchoJohn: Thanks for posting that exhaust set up, the link and for the PM. I did some searching and I guess boom tubes is what that system is called, something similar to what the NASCAR cars have. Well, I'm a looooonnggg way from that.

As both you and John (NotATA) have suggested, I did do some thinking as to whether or not to proceed on the TA or look elsewhere. But you know, as Chris showed with what he's accomplished with his RS/SS, with enough time and money, anything is possible. Although I don't have enough of either, I just don't think I'd have the same passion/enthusiasm building the Formy as I would building a real TA.

I'm going to start striping down the shell to see how exactly what the extent of the rust is. From what I've observed, it looks like it's mostly from sitting out; drainage damage. I've stripped out the interior; the insides of the sail panels and roof still have the original primer. It looks like the left 1/4 and outer wheel well will need to be replaced, as well as the cowl. The floor pans also need patching.

I know it's going to take a lot of work, time and money, but I'll just plug along with it as best I can. Being that she's a real TA, I still think she's worth saving...

Chris: Thank you so much for posting the photos; I can see why it took you 7 years and I have a clearer picture of what I have ahead of me. Seeing the before photos makes me appreciate even more what an awesome job you've done with your Camaro and gives me hope that I can do this! The good thing about having the Formy shell is I have instant access to panels and patches.

Did you replace the entire floor pan or did you patch the damaged areas?

Also - I'm looking at buying a Clarke 130EN Mig welder - any thoughts?

[10Seconds]

I just found and read your thread here and though it will be a lot of work, it will be a cool project. I am building a 78 TA myself, and also started with a huge basket case. I think I started a build thread here, but its not updated. I have updated one over at TAC: 10Seconds 78 TA (http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=1442.0)

If you are not a member over there, it is worth a look because there are lots of knowledgable guys there, and are quick with the obscure TA facts. They are more 'stock' type build guys, but they put up with me and I don't do anything stock, so I am sure you would fit in fine.

As far as your wheels, you could also do like I did, and find a set you like and get them widened to fit.

Keep us updated!

[70LS6TransAM]

Hey 10Seconds, thanks for the post and for the link to your build thread on TAC. I'm really impressed by your fabrication skills and you're doing a great job on your TA. I'm sure all of the sheet metal patching was very time consuming (that and the firewall x 4) but it's turning out great! I'll be sure to check out TAC from time to time as well to check on your progress with your TA.

You know, it seems like the more I get into this, the more I start thinking about changing things. Like going Lucy Blue with the white stripe instead of the stock Polar white with blue stripe and going with something like these Fontana Dish wheels I found from Budnik:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/FontanaDish-1.jpg

Lucy Blue, white shaker & stripe, killer chrome wheels, 335's meats, 2"-3" drop, LS6...hmmm, looks like I need to get started on finding someone to do a rendering for me...

[T_Raven]

Holy rust! It will be nice when the aftermarket starts making more sheet metal for the 2nd gens. Good luck with the project.