69 Chevelle SS396 "Grizelda"

[GenPac]

Purchased this Fremont plant built 'velle from a friend of the family that needed some dough...
Several (10+) years and a long-extended tour overseas later, I am getting the bug again.

A few changes made to this old gal since I bought it. Factory 4spd and tall gears were removed in favor of a TH-400 w/ (haven't verified) 3.56 gears (Posi removed :bsjerk:) and the factory bench front is gone.
My tech ability is pretty limited, compared to some of you guys, so you can imagine the learning curve I'd been dealing with when getting interested in Pro Touring.

About 5 years ago, I replaced all electrical... headlights to taillights and everything inbetween. Ditched points for a MSD 6 / HEI ignition and finally threw away the long-tube competition hooker headers that had been beaten to death by curbs, bumps and potholes. Sandersons had what I needed with some square-port 'shorty' style headers.

This summer, the front suspension was slated to be replaced/reworked. I contacted Mark @ SC&C and discussed my options. I went with SC&C due to their reputation and expertise for A Bodies.
I picked up the Stage 2+ kit which is SPC adjustable uppers (pro-lite) Tall upper and Tall lower BJs.
In retrospect, I should have just purchased the ATS spindles and adjustable SPC uppers but hey, hindsight is always 20/20, right?


Here they are, torqued and ready.
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I decided to clean up and install new bushings in the lower control arm (which I will most likely replace with SPC lowers) and press in the new Howe Tall BJ... Now, don't forget my n00bness and look at what my first experence pressing in a BJ ended up in...
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Yeah, that's what happens when you use a press and you have no idea of what to watch for. Apparently the large socket I was using didn't quite have the depth I should have looked for. Thank baby Jesus that I didn't destroy the threads on the balljoint or, the BJ itself.

[GenPac]

For springs, I decided to take a leap of faith and go with the semi-popular 5" x 9.5" circle track springs with adjustable spring spacers from SouthWestSpeed.com. I had decided to go with 750# for the front. 4 Days shipping from Arkansas and I was ready to set ride hight.
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Yeah... front crossmember to ground clearance? Well, the tapmeasure body is 2.25" and it's showing another 1.25" on the tape. 3.5" crossmember to ground clearance! Atleast I was entertained by the fact that I felt like a giant standing over the engine compartment compared to before with the stock BB springs. Needless to say, I will be raising it at a minimum another inch.

Tires -- 215/70-14 fronts, 265/50-15 rears.
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The measurements I have, after the front suspension work. Distance measured from ground to fender-well center:

Front Driver: 23.5
Front Passenger: 23.125
Rear Driver: 24
Rear Passenger:23.875

Not bad for a first timer... 3/8" higher on the drivers side and rear is damn close too. Rear suspension, BTW is all stock... Ya think my rear coils are worn? :)

Took a quick test drive... Not aligned yet but it looked pretty close and didn't drive too dodgy. WAY too LOW. scraped coming out of my own driveway... lol. Thankfully it was only the exhaust pipe and was just a scrape, not a smash. Front felt a little loose, no doubt the alignment needs adjusting and the baloon front tires could use some replacing.

I'll get some daytime, open air pics later... Right now I need a beer.

[shortrack]

'69 chevelle......:1st:

[GenPac]

My back is telling me I should have either gone with coilovers or SPC lowers...
Next up is fitting my planned wheels and tire sizes and seeing how I need to adjust the ride hight in the front to compensate for wider and slightly taller overall rubber.
Then it's on to revamping the rear suspension! :hmm:

[GenPac]

Daytime pic of how low this thing sits now. I'm thinking it needs to come up another 1.5" to make it somewhat driveable.

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On my short test drive yesterday, I felt the front could be bounced a little too easy... Looks like I should think about a higher rate and some better shocks...

[1971CHEVELLE]

Car looks solid keep us posted

[Roadbuster]

Daytime pic of how low this thing sits now. I'm thinking it needs to come up another 1.5" to make it somewhat driveable.

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On my short test drive yesterday, I felt the front could be bounced a little too easy... Looks like I should think about a higher rate and some better shocks...

Looking good!

Try changing the shocks first. More spring with bad shocks will make it worse! I run 3 inches from the ground to the front crossmember and a spring rate similar to yours and it does not bounce. The ride is firm and controlled.

Jon

[Dougs67camaro]

Looking great! Gotta love a big block Chevelle!

[GenPac]

Looking good!
Try changing the shocks first. More spring with bad shocks will make it worse! I run 3 inches from the ground to the front crossmember and a spring rate similar to yours and it does not bounce. The ride is firm and controlled.

Jon

I thought about your comments, Roadbuster... Indeed, I shouldn't be able to hit my LCA bump stops with little effort when bouncing the front end, I would think.
Do you recall the make/rebound on your shocks? I need to get an idea of what level of damping I should look for. I've been looking at the QA1 and the Varishock coilover setups but unsure if I could benefit from additional adjustability.

New wheels are on the way and tires are in the not too distant horizon also. More pics to come when they arrive!

[claytonisbob]

750# springs are not soft by any means. Definitly need shocks before anything, crappy shocks allow the springs to bounce all over the place. I had the same issue with the stock setup I was running with old cheap shocks. I am running 575# front springs with some fresh bilsteins and it feels really firm when pushing on the front end/driving the car. I'd also say the ride height is a contributing factor. If you bring it up an inch like you said with new shocks, I bet you wouldn't have an issue.

BTW, thats a bitchin stance ;)

[Roadbuster]

I thought about your comments, Roadbuster... Indeed, I shouldn't be able to hit my LCA bump stops with little effort when bouncing the front end, I would think.
Do you recall the make/rebound on your shocks? I need to get an idea of what level of damping I should look for. I've been looking at the QA1 and the Varishock coilover setups but unsure if I could benefit from additional adjustability.

New wheels are on the way and tires are in the not too distant horizon also. More pics to come when they arrive!

You would be surprised. When I changed my rear springs and shocks I left the shocks out just to see what the springs alone would do. I could bounce it like a basketball! Put in the shocks and it is solid. The shocks make an amazing difference!

Up front I have Varishock single adjustable coilovers and single adjustable Varishocks out back. They have plenty of adjustment. I can go firmer or softer. Talk to Mark about the varishocks, he can match them to your springs and ride height.

The coil overs take time to setup. The advantage is how adjustable they are but that is also why it takes a while. The range of adjustment is not infinite!

Which ever shock or coil over you go with make sure it is set up in it's spec range. If the shock is too long, it will bottom out and destroy itself. Likewise if it is too short it will over extend and turn itself into junk. This is especially true with your low ride hight.

Jon

[GenPac]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, Clayton and Roadbuster. New shocks are definetly on the shopping list.

[GenPac]

Scared up some tires...

275/40 on the left, 315/35 on the right...
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[claytonisbob]

Those Sumi's are good to get started with, but you'll want some better tires after a while.

I chose them I'm sure for the same reason you did: only reasonably priced 315/35-17 tires you can get without spending $300... Especially on TireRack. Nitto 555's would be nice if you could find 315's in stock anywhere.

[GenPac]

Those Sumi's are good to get started with, but you'll want some better tires after a while.

I chose them I'm sure for the same reason you did: only reasonably priced 315/35-17 tires you can get without spending $300... Especially on TireRack. Nitto 555's would be nice if you could find 315's in stock anywhere.

Exactly! After searching around for some nice adjustable shocks... let's just say 'I' was the one shocked. These tires will do 90% sitting and will give me an idea on what I want to do with the Front and rear suspension for final* adjustments. I want to make perfectly sure I have no clearance issues with these sizes, even though some of the posts on here about the Sumis say they run narrower than a true 315.

Fortunately, Online Tires is located in Cerritos, CA so shipping to me was just one day, FedEx, no tax.

*note: nothing is final.

[GenPac]

Well, the wheels are here in Vegas... I had NO IDEA when they would be here, I was told from the vendor the lead time for them was 1-2 weeks... I was not forwarded the tracking information so, OF COURSE they attempted delivery while no one was home, I mean, why would anyone be home at 11:20AM in a working household, especially when I was not notified on when to expect them, and when I say WHEN I mean, I wasn't even given a DAY, let alone a time frame -- If you are going to ship a package with a signature required delivery to a customer, the ABSOLUTE LEAST you can do is tell your customer when to expect the package.
I don't know what pissed me off more... not being notified of the shipment or, when I called to talk about it, not being given a tracking number for ANOTHER package I inquired about... just a simple, it's on the way... I shouldn't have to ask, it should be offered, FFS. I should have vented to the vendor but I got the distinct impression that he could not care, one way or another... he already got the cash.

Coincidentally, I am away for the weekend and won't be able to pick them up until Monday.
I'm sure most of you have run into this problem so I'll save the cussing and disgust I have for this situation for my wife. :)

Ok, Rant over... looks like next week will be mounted wheel pics.

[GenPac]

Mmm... I'll be getting the tires mounted soon

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[GenPac]

So I weighed these wheels, first with myself and the wheel, then just the wheel... it was 2lbs difference either way -- on a bathroom scale (incredibly exact analog readout! :doh:)
20lbs for the 17x11
18lbs for the 19x9.5

[CruizinKev]

nice project and wow nice wheels! :twothumbs

[GenPac]

Wheels are mounted... If you care to leave a comment, please let me know what you think.


Before...
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After...
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Don't mind the fuzzy pics, it was dusk. Just to recap, they are Billet Specialties Street Lite 17, fronts are 17x9.5 275/40s - rears are 17x11 315/35s.

[GenPac]

Oh, yeah... they did come with caps but I was in a rush to take pics before the sun was totally gone, FWIW. Better pics tomorrow, maybe.

[Roadbuster]

Looks really good!

What a difference a set of wheels can make in the attitude of a car!


Jon

[GenPac]

Finally got some better daytime photos that aren't fuzzy. Put the center caps on... why did they make 'em so big? These caps would wouldn't look so bad at 1/2 highth, and still clear the grease cap for the bearings on the front hubs.
Maybe Billet Specialties has other designs available.

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[Code Red]

yummy

right now kinda looks like a late 60's rat rod

can't wait to see paint

[shortrack]

DAMN!!!.....I love those body lines......!!:6gears:

[GHOSTDANCER]

Looks good :cheers:

[nvmyss]

I'll be watching this one.
If you need any local help let me know.

[Tiger]

Cool!
I like the stance and the wheels.
nice project!

[nvmyss]

I forgot to ask what BS you running on those wheels?

[Motown 454]

Looking good . I like the wheels

[GenPac]

I forgot to ask what BS you running on those wheels?

Front is 5.5", rear is 6.25" -- Fronts are damn close, would be scraping on heavy corners or bumps with factory geometry (SPC uppers & Tall BJs correcting that). Rears have plenty of room, compared to the front. Rear fenders are rolled, but wasn't needed.

[brrymnvette]

Car looks awesome. Wheels really set it off. Only thing is, it looks like you need a 325 or 335 in the rear. Rims seem to wide for the tires.

[GenPac]

Car looks awesome. Wheels really set it off. Only thing is, it looks like you need a 325 or 335 in the rear. Rims seem to wide for the tires.

Things are pretty close in the rear wheel wells but with a 1/4" spacer and a little more massaging of the fender lip I could fit a 335. I wanted to play it safe, Close... but safe. :twothumbs

[GenPac]

Ok, Finally found some shocks to solve my low suspension worries...
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Member Hardline42 had a pair of Varishocks that fit my application for sale. I bought them up and waited a bit for them to arrive. Installed them same day.
I cranked them up to halfway 8 of 16 and LORD are they stiff! Before, with the KYBs I could bounce the entire front end practically from bumpstop to 4"~ and it would come to a rest within 3/4 of a bounce, now, I can barely move the front end, let alone bounce it! I think this is exactly the kind of shock a BBC front end chevelle needs ... I don't think I'll be worrying about gradual bumps now.
I also took the opportunity to readjust my adjustable spring spacers for a wee bit more ride hight. Now, the crossmember is just under 4" from the ground with the LCA at just about 3.75".
This makes it possible to get an alignment now. The local shop has some hydraulic ears that protrude on the alignment rack about 3.5" so, to just make it easier, I lifted it enough to get by and I will keep it this way. Still looks mean and low :smoke:

[DvBoard]

Wheels are mounted... If you care to leave a comment, please let me know what you think.


Before...
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After...
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Don't mind the fuzzy pics, it was dusk. Just to recap, they are Billet Specialties Street Lite 17, fronts are 17x9.5 275/40s - rears are 17x11 315/35s.To be honest I liked the old wheels better...

[GenPac]

It's been a couple months since my last Update... A few TDYs and some hot weather has slowed progress on 'Grizelda'.

I have repaired my 8yr trans leak! The output shaft/slip yoke bushing in the extension housing of my TH400 was well worn causing trans fluid to leak constantly from the rear of the trans. A few other problems I found when disassembling for repair... my Speedometer cable sheath was split and trans fluid was leaking out, trans mount was completely disintegrated and all that was left were the metal pieces and a few chunks of rubber.
Replace Speedo cable
Replace speedo gear
Replace speedo housing orings
Replace extension housing bushing, seal and gasket
Trans filter/gasket kit
Poly Trans mount
No more leaks! I used probably 3 full cans of brake cleaner trying to clean the old leakage up, but just managed to move the mess around a bit.
Now, with the trans leaks fixed, I had to raise the suspension in the front to clear the alignment rack... So now I have 4" ground clearance from crossmember to tarmac and just narrowly was able to get on the rack.
The SPC UCA with their adjustable sleeves made the alignment guy smile as he was fully expecting to fight with shims to align... I overheard him grumble about shimming before he even looked at the car.
All the while this was being fixed and cleaned and aligned... my gas guage decided to stop working. It shows full all the time so I am hoping it's merely a bad ground.

So, there's the update. Crossing my fingers it really is just a bad ground for the sending unit.

[Young Gun]

I LOVE those new wheels... they look sick and the stance is great! keep up the work! Id love to pick up a 68/69 chevelle soon... awesome cars!

[GenPac]

Changing gears...
Havent' figured out my tank sender problem (reads full on the gauge all the time) so I decided to move on to something less gas-like and tackle the front brakes -- caveat being I've wheels with only 5/8" caliper clearance.
After a decently infomative conversation with Tobin @ Kore3, I've ordered their 325mm kit with C6 calipers. I contemplated several braking options... Touring Classics' C4 hybrid kit, gathering my own C5 setup. What made me go with Kore3 was a few obvious reasons...
1. Commitment to the PT community
2. Satisfaction other customers have had
3. Incase an issue out of the ordinary should come up, like allstate, I'm in good hands. (so to speak)

So begins my manual C5 brake upgrade walkthrough for front disc A-bodys with power assist.
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Begin by stripping all the original Disc brakes off the spindle. Including, but not limited to: Caliper, Rotor, caliper mounting bracket and dust shield.
To get the dust shield off, the upper bolt that holds on the caliper bracket is secured in place by a part of the dust shield that folds up against the bolt head to keep it from backing out.
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Wedge in a screwdriver and pry it back off the bolt. Take a punch and flatten both tabs so it won't interfere when you loosen it. Be aware, this bolt was really tough to loosen for me. I had to use a 3ft breaker bar and even then, I had to extend it using a 7/8 combination wrench.
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Last but not least, I spent a little time cleaning away 40yr old road grime. This will be no garage queen when done so I won't bother making everything pristine.
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[GenPac]

Tomorrow I'll start removing the master cylinder, brake booster and calipers... I just need to buy some tubing wrenches :hammer: (could have sworn I had the size I needed... somewhere...)

Parts are due in sometime mid-to-late next week.

[hechtrod]

I dig those wheels/tires. Agreed with whoever said it, the body lines on those 'velles are killer cool! You're doing a great job man! Keep the pics coming.

[gearheads78]

nice project...you will love the suspension stuff

[Roadbuster]

Tomorrow I'll start removing the master cylinder, brake booster and calipers... I just need to buy some tubing wrenches :hammer: (could have sworn I had the size I needed... somewhere...)

Parts are due in sometime mid-to-late next week.

Don't forget the cutters! Those tube nuts can refuse to come off while they are in a hard to reach location!

Jon

[GenPac]

After a short trip to the auto accessory store (I call it that because they never have the parts I need) I picked up some tubing combination wrenches.
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First thing, I dropped the calipers and let whatever fluid was in the lines drip out. Next, I opened the lid of the M/C and siphoned out the brakefluid in it.
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Next, I disconnected and removed the Vacuum canister I was using for 7 years or more as a bandaid to the low vacuum producing camshaft. Was good for about 2-3 good brakings then stiff pedal.
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Luckily, I had no issues loosening the brake hard lines (thank god) and the M/C came off without much fuss. Upon removal, it was obvious the rear seal in the M/C was leaking into the booster.
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And here is an ode to the most difficult to remove nuts I have ever had the pleasure to deal with on this car to date. Booser to firewall nuts. No room what-so-ever... U-joint adapters don't work, barely get my hands in there. Ended up having to bend the inner fender liner out of the way to get at the lower nuts. This is where I really, really pat myself on the back for deciding to go with plastic fenderwells instead of the metal ones.:idea:
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and last but not least, a pic of the booster and M/C removed. I haven't fully decided on what M/C to use, though I am leaning towards a 7/8 bore one. I have searched around and came across a 7/8" bore from a late 70s Monza, but am unsure if the lines exit from the Drivers or Passengers side. Of course, no one has one in stock to look at, so I am doomed to special order one and keep it if it's wrong.
If it doesn't work out, I might go with a willwood tandem setup as I plan on getting matching rear brakes at a later date.

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[GenPac]

Taking my thread a different direction from the brake upgrade... I saw an opportunity in the PT for sale section and picked up some Hotchkis upper and lower Control arms (uppers adjustable) with low wear.
There are some braces in there also, Edelbrock, I was told. Doesn't look vey sturdy compared to the Hotchkis pieces, so I might end up just picking up some Hotchkis replacements.

I realize the UCAs are not ideal nor are the poly/poly lower bushings... This is merely a starting point as I plan on putting jonny joints in the axle side of the lowers and eventually replacing the UCAs for the edelbrock versions. I just needed something cheap_ish to be able to adjust my pinion angle and axle centering problem, at the same time beefing up the LCAs.
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[GenPac]

KORE3 325mm brakes came in today and I got started right away.
Everything was going right as rain but one snag...

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The bolts for the rear of the steering arm(the lower brake bracked hole) was too short. I had to reuse the front steering arm bolt for the rear and used the new lock nut. Works fine but would have liked the new G8 bolts to be long enough.

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Next up is test fitting my wheels to make sure I have enough caliper clearance... Yes, I measured initially and found out I needed a spacer. So, later I'll be checking caliper clearance with a 1/4" billet spacer.

[GenPac]

1/4" spacer was just what it needed.

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It'll be a little while 'till I can get it on the road to check for rubbing (was none before) now the the track width and backspace has changed slightly.

[GenPac]

I had another 'issue' come up putting on the brake hoses...
My bracket that holds the end of the brake hose looks like this...
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and the end of the hose looks like this...

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CLearly my bracket is not HEX and the hose is... What to do? :confused:

:idea: Out comes the dremel...

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Ahh, that's better. I wasn't able to push the brake hose end up through the bracket due to the two extra ends of the hex fitting. A little tapered dremeling and it fit well and I left enough material at the base of the HEX fitting so it wouldn't pull through when the clip was attached.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ADaughen]

KORE3 325mm brakes came in today and I got started right away.
Everything was going right as rain but one snag...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


The bolts for the rear of the steering arm(the lower brake bracked hole) was too short. I had to reuse the front steering arm bolt for the rear and used the new lock nut. Works fine but would have liked the new G8 bolts to be long enough.




Is it possible that you have the front and rear bolts backwards? It looks like the front bolt only goes through the spindle and steering arm, the rear goes through the caliper bracket as well. The top down photo looks like you could swap and they should be the correct length...

Not that I haven't done that before. ;)

[GenPac]

Is it possible that you have the front and rear bolts backwards? It looks like the front bolt only goes through the spindle and steering arm, the rear goes through the caliper bracket as well. The top down photo looks like you could swap and they should be the correct length...

Not that I haven't done that before. ;)

Believe me, I tried. :idea:

The problem is that the other supplied bolt is actually shorter than the shortest OEM bolt by about 1/4". On the front hole, the bolt threads won't even show.

[Motown 454]

Your brakes look great and nice work with the dremel tool.

[GenPac]

So... Dismantling the rear end went OK... well, as ok as could be. Using a bushing press from Checkers pressing in the new upper control arm bushings in the axle ears... I broke the tool. :rolleyes:

THe threads stripped inside the cast clamp piece. What a waste of metal. So now I'm off to find another one to finish the job...

[GenPac]

I ended up finding another control arm bushing remover/installer tool, but I broke it too. :bsjerk:
I am about 1/4" from having the bushing fully seated so I think I'll call it good enough because I just don't have the patience for it anymore.
Once I get it road worthy again, I'll take it to Dan's Driveline here in Vegas to have new bushings installed again.

[GenPac]

Ok... big day this evening... Finished installing the Hotchkis adjustable UCA and non-adjustable LCAs. Trying to line up the rearend when all of the 4-link pieces are removed is a bitch to do by yourself.
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Had a little time to do some recon work for Tobin so he can figure out why I had to clearance the brake lines in order to be able to fit the frame attaching clip.
Old brake line style:
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Old brake line clearance from lock ring that butts up against the frame mount to the clip slot:
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New KOREFlex clearance, same dimensions:
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This is why I had to dremel taper the hex portion of the new line... so I could get enough room to install the clip! :smoke: I know I probably shouldn't have, but I am just one of those kinda guys that will make a square peg fit in a round hole -- even if it takes me all day, I will find a way.

Next are some pics of my brake lines that look to be a little too short with some harrowing bends...
Driver's side -- full lock right turn:
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Driver's side -- full lock left turn:
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Pass side -- full lock right turn:
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Pass side -- full lock left turn:
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As I was taking pictures I realized that because I had to clearance the hex parts of the brake lines, they may not be indexed properly causing at least part of the crushing of the lines on full lock. (not the parts when the line is stretched) If they weren't indexed with the hex and were actually just butted against the frame mount, I could probably loosen the clip and turn the hose so it has a more free movement... But, since I had to clearance/taper the hex inorder to be able to slide the clip on, I can't reindex the line so I am really kinda stuck with how they are installed.

GAh, why didn't I just NOT have to make them FIT! :machine:I feel like a backwoods inbred moron for having done that.

[Bwazcat]

Dan,
I'm currently working on a '69 pro-touring el Camino and have a question about the tire/wheel fitment shown on this thread.

Did the offset on the Billet wheels require adaptors or was it a direct fit?

Also, be glad you didn't order the AFX spindles. The way they operate, your ride would still be in the garage on cinder blocks with an empty space between the upper and lower A-arms.

[GenPac]

Dan,
I'm currently working on a '69 pro-touring el Camino and have a question about the tire/wheel fitment shown on this thread.

Did the offset on the Billet wheels require adaptors or was it a direct fit?

Also, be glad you didn't order the AFX spindles. The way they operate, your ride would still be in the garage on cinder blocks with an empty space between the upper and lower A-arms.

Hah, Yeah... I feel bad for all the folks out there that are still waiting on them. Once the company sale goes through and there's proof that the quality is still there, I might swap for some AFX shorts.

The fitment, before adding C5 brakes, fit with no spacers, front and rear. The front sits VERY close to the outer lip of the fender and I could have gone with an even bigger backspace but I wanted it as far out, maximizing track width, as I could.
Now, I can't tell you if this exact backspacing will fit on the rear of an Elky... The front will fit, just unsure on the rear because well, you have a psudo-truck bed and I have a coupe -- so the wheel wells might have different measurements. :idea:

[nvmyss]

Wow one post and it's knocking ATS.
I'd be more mindful of the full picture before you bad mouth company's like that.


Dan,
I'm currently working on a '69 pro-touring el Camino and have a question about the tire/wheel fitment shown on this thread.

Did the offset on the Billet wheels require adaptors or was it a direct fit?

Also, be glad you didn't order the AFX spindles. The way they operate, your ride would still be in the garage on cinder blocks with an empty space between the upper and lower A-arms.

[GenPac]

Tobin @ KORE3 sent me a couple brackets that were thinner than the factory ones...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

He also sent along a shorter brake hose that worked much better than the others... no binding to the point of pinching the line. Here are some pics of how the line is routed and freely moves in the range of motion.
Passenger side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Passenger side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Drivers side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

My first Wilwood M/C - 7/8" bore was worthless. It would not bleed at all, bench, recirc, on car... nothing.
New (replacement) M/C came in today, though. I'll be attempting a bench bleed this weekend...
I pray to the all mighty jeebus it works this time.

[tones2SS]

Cool project.
You're really making some headway now!

[GenPac]

Been a while since my last update and any 'real' progress made.
I have since replaced the fuel tank sending unit and I now have a working fuel guage again.
Thinking of the future, I planned on going to Fuel Injection with the powerplant, so I decided to not spend the $200~ or so on a new GM sending unit. I went with the Ground Up repro sending unit. Couple issues I had with it... the feed and vapour return lines are not bent a the correct angle so they rub on the bottom of the trunk pan making it difficult to get at the rubber hoses that connect to the frame lines. Also, the ground wire was tragically 2" too short. I noticed this before I put it in, but thought I might have enough slack... Nope... had to extend with some wire and solder/heatshrink it.

I also took a few minutes to begin the process of replacing the body bushings beginning with the radiator core support. Not a tough process, just alot of rust and dirt and sweat.
The last few weeks have been hellish weather... had a week of mid 110s then a week of Thundershowers with 100° temps and humidity (rare here) and another week of 110s... This has slowed my will to progress alot! That being said, I have an AGR billet series quick ratio steering box on the way here... I am very interested in replacing my really worn steering gear.

[GenPac]

New steering gear is installed!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Also, a note to others... It takes nearly a full quart of ATF type-A to fill the pump and gear from 90% empty.

I managed to install the M/C and get things bled... I am about 70% bled and the brakes are effective enough to drive... not quite enough to lock them up yet. I actually had the lines, front and rear to the prop valve reversed. I was wondering why the rear resevoir was empyting first when bleeding the C6 brakes. :confused: Doh!
A quick swap and bend... not a problem any longer.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I think I'll leave it as is until I get some rear discs on it... I was having one hell of a time bleeding the rear drums! Tiny bubbles were straming from the line and there was nothing I could do to lessen it.:banghead: I'm thinking because I was using a vacuum bleeder, the air might have been injected from the W/C seals or something related. I'll try it again with help actually standing on the brake pedal.


I also had a chance to clean up the suspension components and check their tolerances... all was good, though the passenger side tie-rod probably needs to be replaced in the near future. Don't laugh at my sway bar bushings or my chained engine!!! I know they are well worn... I will probably get the Musclebar modular sway bar to replace it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Pitman arm came off with this tool I rented from Checkers soooooo easy!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[canadiantbone]

I love the car & what you have done so far . Could you let me know how well the brakes work with not power booster. I am thinking of going to manaul brakes as well , after having a 64 beautmont with manual drum brakes.

[GenPac]

I love the car & what you have done so far . Could you let me know how well the brakes work with not power booster. I am thinking of going to manaul brakes as well , after having a 64 beautmont with manual drum brakes.

So far, I have not been able to get the system completely bled... I have a feeling I might be taking in air somewhere, but I can't find the leak. Pedal is a bit spongy and I am thinking the soft line connecting the rear brakes might be flexing.
I also have a sneaking feeling that when I swapped the front and rear lines, I might have gotten some air back in my M/C.

Once I get these minor issues sorted, I'll give some feedback.

[tones2SS]

Good work Dan.
Keep us posted.

[GenPac]

Been a little while since last update, so here goes...

After several, several bleeding sessions and lots of searches on the web... I have figured out my problems.
At first, I thought the pedal with the manual master felt very spongy through the center 1/3 of the total stroke. This has been confirmed as roughly how the longer stroke of the manual master tends to feel this way which is alot different than a power booster.

The problem I am having with the first 1/3rd of the total stroke is lack of action... well, recently it was discovered that there's these things call 'residual pressure valves' that compensate for the return springs on rear drum brakes because I wasn't getting drum actuation before the front calipers would begin to work. The solution is two fold: 1 - 10lb residual pressure valve for the rear drums and 2 - a delay (hold off) valve for the front disc. This delay valve doesnt let pressure pass to the front brakes until 75-120psi has built up in the forward lines. This should stabilize my braking so the front doesnt grab early and help the drums actuate a little earlier helping the initial pedal feel. The last 3rd of the pedal is solid and I can lock up the brakes, it just happens at real close to being all the way to the floor. :hmm:

Also, life plans have changed a bit... now I am looking at houses instead of 12-Bolt housings... lol. Funds for the Chevelle are hereby frozen until further notice.

I still have a few minimal cost things to tidy up that will keep me busy until this 'house' phase blows through... That being said... my 69th post is a good place to pause.

[GenPac]

My wife and I are finally through the tedious homebuying process! To celebrate, I have ordered the Hellwig PT rear sway and some DA Currie Rr UCAs.
I hope to have some progress to report after the first of the year. Happy holidays and merry Christmas to all PT members!

[arden_dean]

They look perfect. I must of missed it, what is the offset for the rims? I have an A-body (Buick) I'm putting together and it look like you've got the PT rims and tires all figured out.:)



Wheels are mounted... If you care to leave a comment, please let me know what you think.


Before...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

After...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Don't mind the fuzzy pics, it was dusk. Just to recap, they are Billet Specialties Street Lite 17, fronts are 17x9.5 275/40s - rears are 17x11 315/35s.

[MonzaRacer]

Let me recommend you have or do it your self and flush out ATF from power steering and use synthetic dot 3 PS fluid, you will be much happier.
Hope you have better luck with AGR than my buddy did. 4 boxes later his $300 billet pump is shredded and full of metal shavings from AGR boxes.
Nice build up.

[MCMLXIX]

My wife and I are finally through the tedious homebuying process! To celebrate, I have ordered the Hellwig PT rear sway and some DA Currie Rr UCAs.
I hope to have some progress to report after the first of the year. Happy holidays and merry Christmas to all PT members!

Congrats... hope you got a 6 car garage with the new house.... :)

[GenPac]

Let me recommend you have or do it your self and flush out ATF from power steering and use synthetic dot 3 PS fluid, you will be much happier.

Hope you have better luck with AGR than my buddy did. 4 boxes later his $300 billet pump is shredded and full of metal shavings from AGR boxes.




Yikes, well... my thumbs are crossed!

[GenPac]

They look perfect. I must of missed it, what is the offset for the rims? I have an A-body (Buick) I'm putting together and it look like you've got the PT rims and tires all figured out.:)

Fronts are 9.5" wide, 5.5" BS (+6mm offset) rears are 11" wide, 6.25" BS (+6mm offset)

[GenPac]

Congrats... hope you got a 6 car garage with the new house.... :)

I ended up with a 4car tandem with a sectioned off room. Effectively shaving it down to a 3 car space - with a workroom that has a dedicated pancake A/C and heating unit.

It'll do for now... :)

[GenPac]

I put on some 11" rear springs, 175lbs -- I can't see much of a difference than the old, worn coils... Hmm.
New --
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Old --

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hmm, tough to tell. My measurements tell me it's lower (1/2" lower), but it's harder to tell comparing pics.
Anyhow, I have a Hellwig PT rear sway to install, some stiff valved adjustable shocks, Currie adjustable UCAs and a few other doo-dads to button up and I think I am done with the rear suspension -- until it's time to tune, that is.

[CruizinKev]

looks awesome! love the stance! :drool:

[T00LMAN]

Good progress that you have going there. I look forward to the updates.

[GenPac]

Latest happenings:

I have commited to a rear disc solution. I am going with Kore3's C6 z51 rear disc with parking brake solution.
Really my biggest reason for going with this is so the rotor diameter will match the front. Second reason is I wanted a simple parking brake solution when I convert this back to manual trans.

Teardown pics.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Peg leg!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Gearing confirmation...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Don't laugh at the chipped peg leg spider gear teeth... I have no idea what is going on there.

[jackfrost]

Currently figuring out more ways to make simple tasks difficult.

love that! :razz:

cool project.

[GenPac]

Since I already have to take the axles out and machine the flanges to fit the rotors on, I decided to investigate the spider gear chips.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309489

I have decided to drop in a lockright and deal with a gearing change when I get to that point in the build.
I am taking the axles out today and getting them to the machine shop.

[MCMLXIX]

If you need something that has to do with the drivetrain, talk to Shep here.... http://www.drivetrain.com/

Great guy. Knows ALOT. Put together my Moser 12 bolt for a good price with a quick turn around....

[GenPac]

If you need something that has to do with the drivetrain, talk to Shep here.... http://www.drivetrain.com/

Great guy. Knows ALOT. Put together my Moser 12 bolt for a good price with a quick turn around....

Thanks for the heads up, Rich. I didn't know they existed. I took the axles to Dan's Driveline since they are about 10 minutes from me up here on the north end.

Had them turn down the flanges and chamfer the edges. Decided to have them replace all the wheel studs as well.
Picked up a couple new hardened axle side spider gear thrust washers and hardened Cross shaft. Oh and a pesky little plastic vent that I tore off in a fit of rage... oops. :)

I'll make sure to consider Shep @ Drivetrain when I decide what gear ratio/transmission/axle shaft replacements ect... I want to go with.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

Removed the rear from the car completely... made it much easier to work around.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And got the Locker installed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Next is getting the Currie UCAs and the Hellwig adj rear sway ready for when the rear goes back in the car.

[GenPac]

Clearanced the Currie UCAs for the 12-bolt, driver's side. Also drilled and installed the brackets for Hellwig's adjustable rear sway bar, with a pic showing how the rear brake line will need to be moved for the bracket.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

Brakes arrived. I spent a little time this evening pre-assembling what I could and getting a feel for how the assembly will go.

13" C6 z51 rear discs with integral drum in hat parking brake. Thanks Tobin!


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Roadbuster]

Nice!

[MCMLXIX]

mmmmm. . . perty . . .

[GenPac]

Yeah, new parts always look puurty. I can't wait to turn them dirty! My son was cooperating tonight so I took the opportunity and slipped out to the garage for some assembly.
Out the axles come again, as well as the locker.
On go the parking brake assembly with associated brackets.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Back in with the axles and locker... (I love it... :machine:)

Cleaned up the rotors and slipped them over the... uhh... yeah, not so fast. One of the rotors wouldn't go over the hub easily. After a few moments of frustration and a few wacks of a deadblow hammer, the buggar still refused to mount. So, I got smart and used the lugnuts to force the rotor over the hub! Genius!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Ran into a snag with the abutment brackets. The holes wouldn't line up with the caliper bracket that mounts to the axle flange.

I PM'd Tobin... I don't know if there are different abutment brackets or different axle brackets or a trick to it but, these definetly don't want to fit.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

We'll see what happens. It would be cool to have a resolution so I can continue Saturday, but I have other things to do in the meantime (like figure out my brake lines)

To be continued...

[MCMLXIX]

On my OEM LS1 F-body brackets, the E-brake adjuster is on the bottom...

I think a wire wheel and some sand paper on the hubs would help get the rear rotors on and off easier...

[Motown 454]

Tobin makes a sweet brake set up.

[GenPac]

On my OEM LS1 F-body brackets, the E-brake adjuster is on the bottom...

What's cool about this setup is I can orient the adjuster where ever I want it. Above or below the axle centerline and to pull forward or backwards for the brake cable actuation.



I think a wire wheel and some sand paper on the hubs would help get the rear rotors on and off easier...

Yeah, I even had a little file time with it. It was close but I was done messing with it, so the lugnuts came out.

[MCMLXIX]

Ok. I looked at your pics again. Maybe the abutments they sent you were for the base model and not for the Z51 upgrade. The larger diameter rotor would require the caliper to be spaced further from the center...

[GenPac]

Ok. I looked at your pics again. Maybe the abutments they sent you were for the base model and not for the Z51 upgrade. The larger diameter rotor would require the caliper to be spaced further from the center...

Yeah, that's what happened. Tobin is shipping out the correct abutment brackets and should be here saturday!

Here are some pics of me working the hardlines to roughly where I want them. I am guessing where the brackets will go that mate the flex to hard lines so I won't final cut and flare the lines until I can mount the calipers and verify.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif



Checking my clearances on the last one. Looks like it'll clear fine! I don't really know how I am going to secure the brackets yet. I think temporarily I will try some hose clamps and secure them laterally to the brackets somehow.

[MCMLXIX]

If you can't or don't want to tack weld them on a pair of stainless steel band clamps should do nicely...

[GenPac]

New abutment brackets showed up this afternoon. Here are a few shots with the calipers mounted. It looks like the hose brackets are going to live right about where they are at.

I also trashed the hardline that passes through the crossmember to the axle flex line. I'm currently trying to overthink how to fix it...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

Made a small patch line for the rear frame hardline to flex at the crossmember. If I can't get the fittings tight enough to not leak, I'll be forced to order a whole new line.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Put some 3/8" hose over the OE brake line where it was moved to make way for the Rear swaybar link bracket. Should keep the lines quiet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Rear is assembled and ready to go back in the car! I just have to seal up the rear cover and squirt some gear oil in the case... Oh and secure the flex line brackets better. Temporarily, some clamps will have to work...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Very close wheel to brake tolerances, about the same as in the front.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

Axle is back in the car, disc brakes and all...
Hellwig adjustable anti-sway bar is mounted as well. Note to others, don't install the swaybar upside down... Wasted about 20 minutes on that moron move. :hand:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Stainless band clamps holding down the flex to hardline brackets. I don't know if I can trust them, I'll keep my eye on them.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Next up is parking brake cable solution and plumbing the combination distribution and adjustable proportioning valve.
Then I think I'll be ready for a bleed and test drive! (if my carb plays nice... :bsjerk:)

Hotchkis LCAs, Currie UCAs, lockright, C6 Z51 rear brakes and a swaybar... not bad for a couple weekends.

[GenPac]

I got started on getting the Lokar cables in place tonight... I routed the lines a little different than OE due to the large equalizer setup these cables have.

Removed the old foot brake cable and put in the new one. It initally was a little loose, so I found a washer with the right ID and thinned it out a sliver. The E-Clip just barely slipped in and now it's tight.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Couple of pics on how I routed the cables. Fixed them in place with self tapping sheet metal screws with poly cable loops.

Passenger side.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Tucked up under the rear seat reinforcement. Driveshaft will bottom out on floor pan before it gets close.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Drivers side.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

together along frame.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

into brackets. looking forwards.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Looking backwards.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And, of course, a snag. The Kore3 brackets that hold the Ebrake lines in place are real beefy. The Lokar cables are only threaded so far. I thought it would be OK, but the threads ended up yanking out of the nut, stripping it. I am going to get a replacement, but I need to ask how you guys would solve this...
Even if I get a new cable, it will still have a short threaded section to get through the bracket... A Call to Tobin will probably need to happen. See what his other clients that are using Lokar cables have done. I also feel like the springs with the kit are way too long. I might have to shorten them.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I still have some brake line replumbing to do for the adj. prop valve so this isin't much of a showstopper.

[GenPac]

Tobin @ Kore3 confirmed I ordered the wrong cables. Needed EC-80FUTB, not just EC80FU. Funny, it says it right in the instructions... I need a drink. :hand:

[Dons67]

nice nice nice -- i'm pulling the rear out of my car next week for a gear swap and brake conversion -- being able to look at your work will really help -- thanks for sharing

You are :1st:

[Apogee]

Tobin @ Kore3 confirmed I ordered the wrong cables. Needed EC-80FUTB, not just EC80FU. Funny, it says it right in the instructions... I need a drink. :hand:

Happens to the best of us...and me too. You still seem able to knock out more in a weekend than I can in a whole week, so keep up the good work. Also, please post up what Lokar tells you with respect to shortening the "nubbins" on the swaged cable ends if you don't mind. It's odd that the ends are interfering with the Wilwood/C5/C6 clevises.

Tobin
KORE3

[GenPac]

Happens to the best of us...and me too. You still seem able to knock out more in a weekend than I can in a whole week, so keep up the good work. Also, please post up what Lokar tells you with respect to shortening the "nubbins" on the swaged cable ends if you don't mind. It's odd that the ends are interfering with the Wilwood/C5/C6 clevises.

Tobin
KORE3


:cool: Thanks for the kind words. I plan on calling Lokar Monday and ordering the 'correct' housings and asking how far I can clearance the cable ends. I was going to call this afternoon but I ran all around town trying to find a brake fitting, 1/4 female to 3/16 male inverted flare.

[Motown 454]

Nice work its looking good.

[GenPac]

Plumbing in new distribution block with adjustable rear circuit, work in progress.
Had to make my own bracket. I'll pick up some proper locking hardware later on and clean it up a bit.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

Alright, after many bent lines and a few curse words, the brake line plumbing is done... (barring any unforseen issues)
After a cursory inspection and rechecking my torquing, the lines are solid so far.

Doesn't look pretty. I need to invest in a nice flaring tool. I think I spent most of my time flaring and reflaring again...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[nvmyss]

Sears kit works good, about $60.

[GenPac]

Got everything bled nicely. A vacuum bleeder is only good for so far. I get funky bubbles when the line is near bled, so I use the vacuum bleeder to get the line close, then gravity bleed the rest of the way. I developed a few leaks here and there but no leaks in my areas I was worried about. Just neglected to tighten a couple lines. I used thread sealer on some of the worrisome connections and they are dry as a desert so I am happy there. All my makeshift lines and flares work!!
Pedal is higher now than it was with the rear drums and holds my strength steady for 30 seconds at a time before I get tired. lol.
I think she's ready for a brake pad bedding and then some adjustment of the proportioning to balance her out.

I'm topping off the rear diff at the moment and might have a test drive tomorrow or Thursday afternoon! (again, if my carb cooperates)

Edit: Oh forgot about wiring in the brake light switch. I have decided to use the Wilwood sw on the combo valve. I never liked the way the OE switch actuates eversince I moved the brake pedal clevis to the upper hole. This required me to remove the bolted in tab that the brake switch rested against. It could be adjusted out, but I am going to design a pedal stop at that position and incorporate a return spring since my OE power setup didn't have one.

[MCMLXIX]

Good to hear that all your connections are good... does this mean you'll try and drive the Chevelle to red rock this Saturday??

I thought Adam might have his car ready by this weekend but he dropped his stock front lower control arms off with my fab guy to be boxed...

Hope the carb cooperates with you on the test drive...

[GenPac]

Happens to the best of us...and me too. You still seem able to knock out more in a weekend than I can in a whole week, so keep up the good work. Also, please post up what Lokar tells you with respect to shortening the "nubbins" on the swaged cable ends if you don't mind. It's odd that the ends are interfering with the Wilwood/C5/C6 clevises.

Tobin
KORE3


Contacted Lokar tech support today. The support guy's explanation of the clearance issue was roughly, "The entire ball and swedged end is crimped."
Pretty much told me to only grind off enough to fit the brake actuation lever between the swedged end and the clevis pin. No more.

He also mentioned that they DID have a problem with the swedged end pulling through the cable so they redesigned the cable end to have more meat for the cable to hang on to. He did say that if I clearanced it and the cable end pulled through as a result, they would make it right and get me a new one.

I eluded to me saying I didn't think I should have to grind it to fit, and that the clevis needs to be about 1/4 longer, he replied that his guy that grinds down the ends after being crimped does hundreds of them a day. Sometimes a few will be longer than they should be, so intereference fit might be normal.

All in all, I am satisfied at the response and can understand that if a lone person is crimping and grinding down these cable ends by hand, I can live with loose tolerances as long as it doesn't affect the long term use of the product.
He also reiterated that if I grinded down the swedged end all the way to the ball that it would greatly reduce the end's holding ability.

My new Thunderbird specific cable housings (EC80FUTB) should be here in the next couple of days so I'll get these together then.

[GenPac]

Good to hear that all your connections are good... does this mean you'll try and drive the Chevelle to red rock this Saturday??

I thought Adam might have his car ready by this weekend but he dropped his stock front lower control arms off with my fab guy to be boxed...

Hope the carb cooperates with you on the test drive...

I still have a few odds and ends to clear up like ebrake cabling. I have most of the hardware installed so I need to get it finished. I am going to buy a timing light to check timing and replace a sticky carb float I diagnosed. I hope that was the only problem, lol.

[GenPac]

I was having a bit of slack in my pedal travel once I moved to a manual setup from my previous vacuum assist setup. Once I removed the tab from the upper hole on the brake pedal and moved the clevis up, I lost the brakelight bracket that the switch actually actuated on. Also, I was getting about 1.5-2" of travel slack in the pedal before the brakes actually get pressure. I don't want the brake pedal to sit higher, or else I would just get a longer pushrod.

Two things I was missing, the OE pedal return spring that was present on all factory manual brake cars and the thick rubber block that the pedal had to return on.

So, to remedy the pedal travel problem, I fashioned an adjustable pedal bumper/stop.

Pic of bracket without stop, before switching to manual, as you can see, no bumper, no return spring.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll18/rogers98_photos/?action=view&current=DSCF1829-1.jpg)

I used a 2" long bolt, a spare hood adjuster bumper, a fender clip/inner fender clip nut and a jam nut/lockwasher.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll18/rogers98_photos/?action=view&current=DSCF2381.jpg)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll18/rogers98_photos/?action=view&current=DSCF2379.jpg)

It works pretty well and I was able to adjust the pedal to about 1/4" before the pushrod actually starts to move the piston in the M/C. I can live with the slight extra travel and if I can find an OE return pedal spring, the pedal will rest comfortably against the bumper without worry about keeping even a little pressure against the M/C piston.

I also removed the OE brakelight switch and extended the harness to the hydraulic switch on my combo valve under the M/C. Switch works well so I'm happy with it.

[GenPac]

The EC80FUTB cable housings arrived today so I buttoned up my ebrake setup.

Here is a pic of how far I had to grind down the swedged ends of the lokar cables to fit around the ebrake actuation lever. It's all adjusted and working like a champ. with a relatively short press of the pedal, both rear seem to be solid. I'm sure I'll need to further adjust it once I am able to test it on the road, rather than in my garage.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Roadbuster]

Two things I was missing, the OE pedal return spring that was present on all factory manual brake cars and the thick rubber block that the pedal had to return on.


GenPac,
Thank you for that nugget of knowledge! I was wondering why the pedal returned slow with my hydroboost!

Jon

[GenPac]

GenPac,
Thank you for that nugget of knowledge! I was wondering why the pedal returned slow with my hydroboost!


Cool. I haven't been looking very hard for one. I'm hoping one will fall from the sky.
If you find an online source for it, please let me know.

On a different note, I got some motivation to drive the car this afternoon after meeting some of the local forum folks. After unsticking my secondary float again, it did run. I'm sure I have a couple fouled plugs or worse, but it did make a small trip around the block.
I think I discovered one of my QS1 varishocks has developed a leak. So, the front end will come apart again... perhaps with some changes. :)

[tones2SS]

Nice work Dan. Looks great.

[GenPac]

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313823

Turns out it was brake fluid from when I was redoing all my brake lines. Since I already have it apart, I am making some changes. Things I wanted to do when I had it apart the first couple times, but didn't have the budget for.

[GenPac]

Went on a fact finding mission this evening. First off, ran a wet compression test..


203
198
185
195
195
200
188
192

Pulled the Valve covers and found I have 3964291 Cylinder heads.
Dug through some old boxes I've been carting around the world with me for several years and came upon my Cam card... Looks like I'm running a Comp Cams Grind #CB 292H-10.

Armed with this new knowledge, I am now trying to decide the path I'll take for my powerplant.

[MCMLXIX]

LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx

[GenPac]

LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx LSx

I wish the decision was that easy...
If I keep the BBC, give the carb gods one more shot, I'll be able to afford the 5Speed and maybe even EFI a short while after.
If I keep the heads, drop in a big cube shortblock and stay Carb, I'll just barely be able to get the 5speed as well, but EFI will have to wait. If I go LSx, I'll have to budget for fuel and the steps to get fuel delivery in order, mounting, oilpan, trans crossmember, driveshaft, blah blah... Trying to do engine and trans simultaneously could have the potential to baloon my costs and increase delays.

I need to think about my future semi-gloss clear over flat paintjob! :smoke:

[GenPac]

Changing gears for the weekend...

Received my replacement lower control arms and Springs all around to negate the spring adjuster to shock issue I discovered.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Quick swap from the Balljoints that come on the SPC arms to my Howe Tall Lower balljoints from my OE arms. I ended up using the aluminum coil spring spacer and one 1/4" steel spacer under that. I repurposed the urethane spacer from the spring pocket and fixed it up in the frame, guided by the spring guides. I feel the ride height is probably a little high for my liking, but I'm going to let it ride for now and see how I like it once I get it on the road.

Couple pics of them installed and one of the xmember clearance.

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

4.25" at the crossmember. Lowest point is still the exhaust.

[GenPac]

Following up on the manual disc conversion.

After a bout with some tuning troubles she is running well again.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314556

This gave me the opportunity to bed the brakes and adjust proportion. Man, with not a lot of leg pressure, these brakes do the job. With my 4pt harnesses holding me and my butt on the edge of the seat (I was anxious), I felt the car come out from under me and wow I was pressed against the harness.

Takes not much more leg pressure than the OE power setup but I am loving the increased pedal travel for braking feel.

For a recap, I am using C6 front calipers, C5 front rotors. C6 rear calipers and C5 rear rotors with drum parking brake in the rotor hat. Hydraulics from a Wilwood 7/8" bore tandem master cylinder going through a Wilwood combination brake light / rear proportion / distribution block. Hawk HPS pads at all 4 corners. Rear bias is just about dialed in to where rear discs lock up a hair before the fronts do. To lock them up sharp and deep jab on the pedal is necessary. The tires are doing a decent job of holding traction so I have to want to lock them up.

Overall, I can now say I am glad I made the swap to manual brakes. Tobin @ Kore3 is the man when it comes to brakes. He confirmed many of my ideas about this setup and debunked a lot of myth when it comes to manual brakes. It really is all about the math in terms of piston area and M/C bore.

I need to change the oil and this car is ready for the next project...

[68firebird]

Very nice, I'm liking this build thread!!! car is looking great, I love the stance.

[Motown 454]

Glad to hear it all worked out for you.

[MCMLXIX]

Sound great Dan... Everything seems to be working very well together... Does this mean you'll bring your car and you son to red rock for the next end of month meet???

[mc84_zz4]

Nice progress man!

[GenPac]

Sound great Dan... Everything seems to be working very well together... Does this mean you'll bring your car and you son to red rock for the next end of month meet???

That's the plan! I need to get a hold of the Silver State folks you mentioned and make an appointment to get the car emissions tested. If that goes well, She'll be registered and legal.

[GenPac]

Got the car running again, just in time for me to tear it down again. I am fighting the too far advanced base timing problem. My mechanical advance in the HEI **** itself so I got a replacment. I am sidelining the MSD 6AL for now and going with the StreetFire 1wire setup. Once I eliminate all the other timing problems, Ill convert it to the CD multiple spark again.

At this point, I am going to pull the timing cover and ensure my dots are lined up. If not... Who knows... maybe I'll just swap the cam... Money loves to fly out of my pocket.

[GenPac]

Progress this afternoon... here's a slew of pics...


Move TDC marker on HB to what I 'think' is TDC...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


CLear out the accessories for Timing cover removal.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Decided to remove the radiator for a little more room and safety of the core.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


HB keyway and TDC mark are aligned so the HB is still good.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Checking chain slack in...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


...And out. Aligned dots on the timing set...

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Which resulted with the rotor now pointing at the firewall? Not obvious to me, there is something rotten in Denmark (and my BBC too)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Restab distributor at #1 plug wire tower...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Now time for reassembly... Don't wait up! :-P

[Cannon]

ok wow I didnt notice there were 7 pages and I just got done with the 1st page lol

[GenPac]

Put her all back together again... Long story short. Inductive timing lights might NOT read correctly with MSD 6 boxes.

Alot of work and not alot of payoff. Oh well, atleast my crummy old HEI is gone and a new one with an Accel Supercoil replaced it.

Now, after rebuilding the carburetor again, we'll see shortly if it is ready to run.

[GenPac]

After some much needed advice and help from the good folks over at Team Chevelle, she is running like a top again. No fumes, no watering eyes... just pure big block RPM goodness.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316150

Essentially, (with lots of help) came to the conclusion that the 750dbl pumper is the way wrong carb for my mishmash setup. Replaced with an out of the box Holley Street Avenger 770. To take a quote from Emeril, "BAM" all my previous problems and gripes with the double pumper were like a bad memory.

Took it for a 30min test drive... Like I'm 19 all over again, lol. :) Look out, Vegas! Grizelda is back on the road!

[MCMLXIX]

:woot::woot::woot:AWESOME!!! :woot::woot::woot:

[GenPac]

Got an appointment for emissions this week. Still waiting on my front sway bar... Alignment needed, badly! :)

[68firebird]

Got an appointment for emissions this week. Still waiting on my front sway bar... Alignment needed, badly! :)

At least you got the carb demon worked out, a carb swap helped me out to when I was having problems like that.

what kind of sway bar and who did you order through? I ordered a hotchkis sway bar about 3 weeks ago through neverenoughauto.com and they told me that it was being drop shipped from hotchkis but wasn't being shipped until next friday!!

[GenPac]

At least you got the carb demon worked out, a carb swap helped me out to when I was having problems like that.

what kind of sway bar and who did you order through? I ordered a hotchkis sway bar about 3 weeks ago through neverenoughauto.com and they told me that it was being drop shipped from hotchkis but wasn't being shipped until next friday!!

EDIT : to remove my misplaced words...

[Dave@Hellwig]

SC&C is one of our specialty accounts and is not on the distributor list at the front desk. Give me a call at 1-800-367-5480 x36 if you need assistance.

[Brad1970]

Genpac.... I ordered the same type bar from SC&C as well. it was on 3/18/2010, I called SC&C on 4/1/2010 to see where it was, he told me they were on back order due to something being broken at the Hellwig shop & they were behind. I received the bar on 4/7/2010 albeit with the wrong mounting hardware. On 4/8/2010 I got Dave@Hellwig's number from Marc via email & called. He shipped the correct mounting parts & I got them on 4/14/2010.

I can't complain one bit about Hellwig. Dave gave great customer service & responded quickly (the guy even responded one day @ 9:30am Central time... That's 7:30 AM west coast.... See if you know ANYONE in the car parts business that is up & @ work that early that will respond to email or answer a phone call!!!!!)

Talk to Dave for sure, I have faith in him that he'll get you fixed up!

I've enough faith in Hellwig I'm gonna pick up their new rear sway... so I guess what I'm saying is they'll get you taken care of...

Now as far as SC&C goes... well read my thread... Don't get me wrong I love SC&C & will continue to do business with them but, they just need some more help over there. It seems to be a one man show doing all the phone tech support, ordering & shipping. Good luck on getting a call back if you leave a message on the machine or with Keith or the girl I spoke with. & yes it is a sore spot & my therapy sessions are helping me to work thru it all :grouphug: :nopity:

[GenPac]

SC&C is one of our specialty accounts and is not on the distributor list at the front desk. Give me a call at 1-800-367-5480 x36 if you need assistance.

While I didn't expect the response I recieved, I didn't realize just how large Hellwig, as a company, was. Marcus is taking care of me as my distributor and I appreciate your attention to the matter, Dave.

[GenPac]

Now as far as SC&C goes... well read my thread... Don't get me wrong I love SC&C & will continue to do business with them but, they just need some more help over there. It seems to be a one man show doing all the phone tech support, ordering & shipping. Good luck on getting a call back if you leave a message on the machine or with Keith or the girl I spoke with. & yes it is a sore spot & my therapy sessions are helping me to work thru it all

This was a unique situation, as is with parts that are ordered in a out-of-normal channel. I am not worried about them fixing the issue, I just need to stop typing posts before I contact parties involved. :sick: a bit of unintentional drama.

I learned about a year ago that if you want to talk to Marcus, you need to get in line. :) I don't care if I have to call fourty times a day, eventually someone will pick up and life moves on. If it helps you any, Marcus is infinately easier to get ahold of during the off season! :)

Sometimes it's easy to forget just how public the internets really is and how a simple concern can get misconstrued by most anyone who was not involved in the transaction.

[Dave@Hellwig]

We broke the tool post on our CNC bender in March. Took about a couple weeks to get everything back in line. We are getting close to catching up now which should mean quicker ship times.

[GenPac]

On a different note, I was browsing Amazon for a new air cleaner and came across an unbelievable deal. They had a K&N 60-1280 14" diameter, 3" filter with a 1-1/4" drop base for $29.32! I've only seen them locally for over $100. I picked that up along with a 1" phenolic carb spacer. I could probably get away with a 1/2" spacer but I have plenty of room for the hood closing even with the 3" filter.

I checked Amazon today for the tracking and clicked on the item. They NOW have it listed for $90+. Maybe they were trying to move old inventory or it was a pricing error in my favor. I'm not complaining.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[GenPac]

Grizelda is down at Silver State Speed Shop right now getting the emissions resolved. I noticed a new problem on the drive down...
slight puffs of blue smoke from the right side exhaust on moderate to heavy acceleration. :revto9k: :drive:
I will bring her back this afternoon and do a dry compression test this weekend. The wet compression test was good, so I'm thinking valve guides, seal or something more sinister... She also needs the valves adjusted. Stay tuned!

[GenPac]

The emission testing is done, she's got a clean bill of health. Next up is braving the Nevada DMV... :bsjerk:

[MCMLXIX]

The K&N look much better then the death by foam filter you had... I'm glad the guys at Silver State could help you out... The DMV up on NORTH Decatur is new, clean and usually not too busy...

Russ was working on mine last weekend and I'm going down again on Sunday... if you want to stretch the Chevelle's legs and take a trip down let me know... bring Nate along for the ride...

[GenPac]

Russ was working on mine last weekend and I'm going down again on Sunday... if you want to stretch the Chevelle's legs and take a trip down let me know... bring Nate along for the ride...

Oh, this was a while ago... :pat:


Got the Hellwig 1-1/4" hollow front sway bar on today and did a small low-speed drive around Aliante to check for squeaks and beeps. Apparently there's a car show over at Aliante Station... /shrug

Didn't have much time or I would have liked to go.

So far I am having just a little interference on the OE style tirerod sleeves. As I mentioned before at the last meet, I was having issues with it already from scraping the frame on low digs while turning. I need to scare up some low-profile hex style adjusters and see how that does me. Again, this is not the Swaybar's fault, it's the long ass adjuster sleeve bolts that are at 11o'clock on the passenger side. The driver's one was clocked inboard and it took out the SPC progressive jounce bumper on a quick turn, lol. I looked under the car after the noise and saw one of the white bumpers had jumped out of it's perch and is now lost on 215 between decatur and aliante pkwy. :)
I put back in the OE wedge style bumpers on both lower arms. Definitely need to get rid of the OE style tire rod adjusters. :smoke:

Also, I've got plates on the car~ I am still considering a personalized plate but the current one is growing on me...

[GenPac]

Steering linkage getting replaced this weekend. I decided to spring for all new US made steering linkage. 2 outer and 2 inner tie rods, idler arm and center link.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

After removing the steering linkage from the car, I noticed a slight problem...

Passenger side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Driver's side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Yes, they are most definitely bent. :sick:

Fast forward about 2 hours and a coke later, replacements installed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Unfortunately, the Hex style adjusting sleeves won't arrive until Tuesday, so here she'll sit. I figure I'll just match the inner to outer rod lengths on the old linkage and match it to the new one then eyeball it good enough to get it rolling to the alignment shop.

[montessaj]

Unfortunately, the Hex style adjusting sleeves won't arrive until Tuesday, so here she'll sit. I figure I'll just match the inner to outer rod lengths on the old linkage and match it to the new one then eyeball it good enough to get it rolling to the alignment shop.


I would count on a whole bunch of eyeballing. I tried doing the length thing when I put the hex style adjusters on my Monte Carlo and it didn't work very well at all lol. Maybe I just didn't do it right?:hand:

This is one of my favorite project threads on PT BTW. Keep up the good work man.

[GenPac]

I would count on a whole bunch of eyeballing. I tried doing the length thing when I put the hex style adjusters on my Monte Carlo and it didn't work very well at all lol. Maybe I just didn't do it right?:hand:


I'll keep that in mind. I'm sure there's a few other methods I can use, assuming my frame is straight. :)




This is one of my favorite project threads on PT BTW. Keep up the good work man.


Thanks! :twothumbs I'm trying to keep things realistic for just about anyone to do. I lack fab skills.

[montessaj]

I also lack fab skills, but I dig this type of build, and the street-lites look KILLER on this car.

[GenPac]

Been a while since the last update. My better half is back from 'over there' and I haven't been motivated to get back to solving a few outstanding issues with the drivability.
I've got a significant lean to the driver's side front, about 1/2" difference from pass. I'm not convinced it's a spring or suspension issue. I need to call around and see if there's a reputable colision center with a frame shop to have them check it out. I don't want to bandaid it and just shim using the SPC LCA, mainly because I don't want to cause any other problems and I don't know what possible issues could arise from compensating for a lean in this manner.

I've backed down the caster to a more manageable 5.5° and upped the neg camber a touch to -.75°. Toe set at 1/8".
It feels solid but at low speed manuvers, I feel some binding/intereference. Probably some tierod/swaybar/adjuster/frame/bumper combination that is making some noise. Pretty much everything but the frame itself has been replaced on the suspension so it's relatively disappointing at the moment.
I also need to get the rear abutment brackets milled down about 1/8" or so because the rear pads/rotors aren't centered to the abutment. The rotor is just kissing the anti-rattle tension shims for the pads.

Then ofcourse there's the pedal return spring for the manual brakes. I have a good idea on how to affix the spring end to the pedal clevis rod but I need to fab it up and test fit it.

Then at some point this summer I will try to placate the slight oil burn I am experiencing with some new valve stem seals and hope for the best.

[jbs10]

looks grate ......

[TURBOPOWERED68]

awesome Dude

[GenPac]

So, I went all Rip Van Winkle apparently and lost track of my goal for the Chevelle. it's been 3 and 1/2 years since my last update and I haven't done a thing to it for the duration. I hope to regain my motivation for the new year and get back to modernizing my beloved Grizelda...

[lzdick]

How about a current pic or two. Love the name 'Grizelda'.

[GenPac]

So, nearly a year later...

I've moved again.

Also, a Gentleman in Florida has found my numbers matching 396 in a 72 Suburban restoration project. Thanks to the folks over at Team Chevelle, I reached out to him. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=705986

Unfortunately, he did not accept my offer. Hopefully he will reconsider in the future.

But at the very least, I now know for sure it is a genuine SS.

[pitts64]

I was wondering what caster setting you run on the Chevelle? Thanks.

[FormTA]

Wow! I read that thread on the engine. Like the song, I tend to believe most people are good. Reading that just makes me shake my head and worry a bit for the human race. Hope you move on and enjoy your car.

***Edit**** just realized this is a 5 year old thread....

[JayinMI]

That was a sad outcome for that thread. But from the beginning (after seeing this thread and knowing the car wasn't original) it seemed like he was asking an awful lot. If the OP here was restoring it, it might have been worth something like that to him, I guess. The line about the Chevelle community making him uneasy was odd, since it sure seemed like he was the scam artist. smh.

Jay