Sway bar rates

[JRouche]

Ok, I am in my final phase for the back half. 4-link was already in place. I put some Air Ride Tech shockwaves (air springs and hydraulic adjustable shocks) in place. Had coilovers and a panhard bar. Both were too close inboard, better for a drag car but not mine.

So I welded new mounts for the air springs and made a watts link to take the place of the panhard bar. Done!!! Finally, I screwed up some, fixed that, now Im on to the sway bar while Im still on the back, front is next.

I looked high and low and decided on a Speedway bar. I called them and got some good info. Ill mount it, the bar itself on the frame and have arms and down rods to the axle housing. Gonna work great, they have the right lengths I need. But they also have alot of different rates for the bars.

Ok, long drawn out question, and I do have one, or two :)

Bar rates?? I dont even know where to start. My springs are air springs, I cant even figure the rates there. It would help if I knew what those rates were, good luck.

So the car is a 62 Nova, pretty light, how light?? Ok, Im still screwin up, I dont know the weight. I bought a scale set, a longacre 72609. But have yet to weigh the car. Why?? Well, she is still missing many of the parts to get an accurate measurement. I will, when all the parts are in place. But for now lets just say the car is 3000lbs and a good 50% ratio front to back.

My RC for the rear is gonna be somewhat low with the watts. My center pivot will start off at about 9 inches off the ground. So Im thinking a large-ish roll bar is gonna be needed do to the excess body roll with a low RC at the rear.

Now my off the cuff thinking was a 1-1/4" bar (tube actually), splined. 12" arms.. My question is where to start with the bar rates. I can go from 200 to well above what I need. I was thinking 375lbs for a start. The bars are cheap, only 70 bucks, but no way do I want to be swapping bars.

So where do I start??? Im thinking I need a pretty stout bar cause of the high CG of the car and the low-ish rear RC.

Ok, yeah the front has alot to do with it. Its a Mustang II front and its gonna have a stiff bar. But I just wanna get out from under the rear while I can and get in the ball park before I tackle the front Air Ride.

So 375lbs, more?? Who knows, I dont. 1000lbs?? Yeah, it could be that much.

How do I get a starting number for a build without driving the car? Anyone, throw me a number, I'll jump on it at this point, I just wanna get out of the back end, kinda done dealing with it. I just wanna drive,,, Any help would be great!! JR

[JRouche]

Nuthin???? Come on guys. I really DO need some help here. I dont even know where to start. 400 pound bar? 600lbs?

Im at a loss to where I can even start. Im leaning towards a heavy bar due to the low RC. I just dont wanna go too heavy. And I will have a stout mounting so a heavy bar isint a concern so much with tearing the suspension apart..

But I dont want to be lifting the tire on the turn either. And I kinda need to buy the bar soon, its at the point of the build where I need to weld the axle bar mounts but dont wanna do it without having the parts in hand.

And I know the nova is the red headed stepchild LOL But lets try to make this redhead handle.

Any help would be taken with appreciation. Thanks, JR

[David Pozzi]

A lot of the older Camaro bars are in the 280 range, like an Adco 3/4" solid rear bar, this is old-school stuff designed and tested with nearly stock tires and wheels. The later "tuner" stuff is around 400, so the 375 you were first considering sounds very good. especially since the car is light.

[JRouche]

Thank you David. Ill go for the 375 bar. JR

[mugzilla]

What kind of bushings did you use .

[JRouche]

What kind of bushings did you use .

Askin me?? Dont have them yet, dont even have the bar yet. Was mulling over the sizes and rates. But I will use the pillow blocks speedway (the supplier of the bar) has. They have two types, one is a low profile with bronze sleeves and what looks to be a thin sleeve of rubber. And another that has what looks like a thicker piece of some sort of rubber, urethane or organic, I dont know. Ill go with the standard size and see if I like it. Cant tell from the pics and I did call them but the specifics were not too clear. Great folks there though.

Im not overly concerned about the frame to bar mounts. If it comes down to it Ill make my own. I have worked with poly a little and made bushings before. I have some nice stock left over from another trailing arm build. I could use that. Just freeze it up for a night and chuck it up in the lathe. With a sharp carbide it turns very nice. Ive drilled and bored it along with some OD turning. So that will be a lets see what comes situation.

Ill use theirs, if it doesnt work out just another lil project. The bar spring rate is what really got me wanting to get close though. They are inexpensive, and pretty nice torsion bars (they actually supply alot of dealers) but I needed to get in the ball park. Any help??? JR

[aosborn]

Is the bar you are considering adjustable?

[fishtail8]

Sounds like you're using a torsion bar meant for a dirt track car, sprint car likely. The bars run enclosed in tubes with either plastic or bronze bushings in the ends. You might have to pull the bar every year to clean the dirt that'll get inside, and to re-grease it.

[JRouche]

Sounds like you're using a torsion bar meant for a dirt track car, sprint car likely. The bars run enclosed in tubes with either plastic or bronze bushings in the ends. You might have to pull the bar every year to clean the dirt that'll get inside, and to re-grease it.

Oooh!! Now dont give me any ideas. I would love to dirt track my car. But no, these bars are just regular old torsion bar sway bars. Guess you could use them on a sprint car, dont see why not. All quite simple. But now you got me thinking of dirt LOL Had a buddy who used to race camaros on the dirt. Every saturday night we were out there welding the car back together for the race on sunday. The good ol, single days. JR

The bars
http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybars.htm

And the pillow blocks.. http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybar_Arms.htm

[JRouche]

Is the bar you are considering adjustable?

Yes, they are splined.

I did find some adjustable sway bar kits. And I called the company and whats funny, they get their bars from speedway also. Speedway supplies alot of folks. JR

So, I thought this was interesting. Adjustable sway bar.
http://www.genesisparts.com/index.cfm?tpc=Genesis_Cockpit_Adjustable_Sway_Bar_ Kits&form_prod_id=1_43&action=product

[fishtail8]

Pretty much the same idea's on the bar, except for the dirt you'd have a long arm on one side, and a small block on the other end with a bolt in it for adjusting ride height against the frame. They also have individual bars for each corner. Same idea but different... :) Thanks for the pic of the bars, might be something to pick up for mine also. Good luck, let us know how that rate works out for you.

[The WidowMaker]

the splined portion doesnt make them adjustable, but different mounting pts on the arms do. i have a 37.5" speedway bar with 1.25" ends and its turned down to 1". the arms are adjustable from 6-9" and therefore gives me a good amount of adjustability. my front bar is 38.5" with 1.25" ends and its stepped up to 1.5".

the blade type bars are pretty friggin sweet.

Tim

[JRouche]

the splined portion doesnt make them adjustable, but different mounting pts on the arms do. i have a 37.5" speedway bar with 1.25" ends and its turned down to 1". the arms are adjustable from 6-9" and therefore gives me a good amount of adjustability. my front bar is 38.5" with 1.25" ends and its stepped up to 1.5".

the blade type bars are pretty friggin sweet.

Tim

Hey Tim, absolutely right. I kinda missed what he was asking about.

Did you get a solid bar? I just ordered mine today. 42" tube, 1.250" dia, .250" wall. I got the aluminum arms, 17". They are un-drilled so the rates can be changed with various holes. Would need to move the bar mounts fore or aft for adjustment. Im planning on 10 or 11 inches for the holes that would give me about 390lbs for the bar.

I think I remember seeing a post with your bar (rear) in place but I couldnt really see the bar. Did you post a pic? And where did you mount it. The one I saw I thought had the bar to the rear and pretty low? Mine is gonna be mounted to the front of the rear end, on the frame (art morrison 4-link clip) up high.

Im looking at the ford nine inch housing now and feeling sorry for the lil guy. I have the watts link mounts, shockwave (like a coil over) mounts and now the sway bar mounts all within the same area, bout a 10" area, just outside the 4-link brackets. Talk about some stress focused in one area. Hmmm? Its a AM prepped housing, dont know if they just shortened a stock housing and welded on new end flanges or welded on their own tubes outboard of the center section. Hope it holds up. :) JR

[The WidowMaker]

i welded in a new crossmember for the uca's, and the bar mounts to the same cross above the uca's.