my booster is too big

[aray327]

i am installing an LS motor in my 69 camaro. I currently have the original style 69 camaro booster. It hits the coil pack. I don't want to relocate the coils so what other booster options do I have. I know i can go hydraboost, but it isn't cheap. I have seen corvette boosters that are smaller, don't know what year... What options do I have?

[68Formula]

Dual diaphram boosters provide more clearance. They have them in various sized. Call a manufacturer (SSBC, BAER, MasterPower) and find out what they recommend.

[wmhjr]

Had a very similar conversation with Marcus at SC&C last week. I've got a chrome 7" dual diaphram that probably isn't going to fit on now that I've gone a bit bigger on my engine design in a '66 GM A-Body. But Marcus says that even if it does fit, the smaller diameter (even with dual diaphram) don't work too well. I'm leaning toward a hydrobooster.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Here is a real nice one we sell, it is polished stainless steel, 8" Dual Diaphram, clears big block tall valve covers. The booster alone is $200,

Also shown is a picture of one with a chrome master and prop vale we used on the Going for the Gold 69 Camaro. Set up that way is $350

I have these on the shelf


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ProdigyCustoms]

Had a very similar conversation with Marcus at SC&C last week. I've got a chrome 7" dual diaphram that probably isn't going to fit on now that I've gone a bit bigger on my engine design in a '66 GM A-Body. But Marcus says that even if it does fit, the smaller diameter (even with dual diaphram) don't work too well. I'm leaning toward a hydrobooster.

7" is to small, 8" works better.

[aray327]

If i go with a booster I will paint it so stainless will be overkill. sounds like 8" dual is best?

If i am using an 11" now that should give me an extra 1.5" to work with. I will check but that sounds good. I imagine the dual diaphram is longer?

If I want to order one locally what car and year would have used that size?

[ProdigyCustoms]

That is not a factory booster. You can get one in zinc coated and is paintable. Lots of people make the zinc booster, you should be able to find one at the local speed shop in zinc

[Damn True]

[Michael Scott] THATS WHAT SHE SAID! [/Michael Scott]

[Fuelie Nova]

I used the 8" zinc in the link below. $99 works great...

http://www.hotrodsusa.com/store/booster8.html

Tg

[parsonsj]

Consider manual brakes. If you size the master cylinder(s) properly, manual brakes work great.

jp

[wmhjr]

7" is to small, 8" works better.

Unfortunately 8" will definitely not fit. No how and no way. Take a look at this motor WITHOUT valve covers and you'll see why. I've measured.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/100_4071-1.jpg

[wmhjr]

Consider manual brakes. If you size the master cylinder(s) properly, manual brakes work great.

jp

Not for me. No matter what, stopping with a heavy car and a BIG motor can be exciting with manual brakes. If it were a drag car that's what I'd do, but for a street driver I would never get into the throttle for fear of trying to slow down.

[parsonsj]

Not for me. No matter what, stopping with a heavy car and a BIG motor can be exciting with manual brakes. If it were a drag car that's what I'd do, but for a street driver I would never get into the throttle for fear of trying to slow down.With due respect, you should do more research about this. My car weighs 3500 lbs with me in it, and I can get 1100 psi to all 4 calipers. Lest you think it takes a lot of effort, my 5'2" wife can do it too.

My brakes work very very well, and feel no different than my late model cars with power brakes. It takes proper engineering, but it can be done. In many of our cars, with the tight fit at the valve covers, manual brakes is a viable solution.

jp

[68Formula]

Unfortunately 8" will definitely not fit. No how and no way. Take a look at this motor WITHOUT valve covers and you'll see why. I've measured.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/100_4071-1.jpg

I'll take the motor off your hands for no charge. Heck I'll even pay for the shipping myself. :naughty:

Can you "clearance" your valve covers? Maybe go with some paintable stamped ones rather than cast or chromed.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am with John and have done a dozen manual brake cars this year. I own 4 manual brake cars, and when Scott Pruit autocrossed EmptyNest at Columbus, his first comment was, wow that thing has got some brakes!

It has manual brakes, and all 115LBS of Lisa can handle it just fine.

Most manual brake complaints stem from inproper master cylinder bore size.

A little known fact, Wilwood brakes are specifically designed to be manual brakes!

Most brakes work fine with the right master

[aray327]

glad to know you can get good info when you need it. After searching for a dual 8" master I came across a hydroboost. Now i have to figure out how to plumb it and pay for new ps hoses.

[wmhjr]

I am with John and have done a dozen manual brake cars this year. I own 4 manual brake cars, and when Scott Pruit autocrossed EmptyNest at Columbus, his first comment was, wow that thing has got some brakes!

It has manual brakes, and all 115LBS of Lisa can handle it just fine.

Most manual brake complaints stem from inproper master cylinder bore size.

A little known fact, Wilwood brakes are specifically designed to be manual brakes!

Most brakes work fine with the right master

Frank,

I guess I'm just a wimp. I've never driven a heavy car with manual brakes that I thought was enjoyable slowing down. That includes ground up cars but never one with Wilwood brakes. If you're using a manual system and the master cylinder does have the correct bore, what other issues could cause the poor drivability that I've experienced?

Don't get me wrong - the brakes worked and I'm sure my 115lb wife "could" stop the car. But it wasn't comfortable and it sure wasn't an experience that I'd enjoy for long. I'm seriously interested since as you know I'm in the downhill stages of my project right now.

[parsonsj]

I've never driven a heavy car with manual brakes that I thought was enjoyable slowing down...There have been lots of threads over the years about the facts and myths surrounding the use of manual brakes.

Search is your friend:

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49806&highlight=manual+brakes

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47296&highlight=manual+brakes

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43062&highlight=manual+brakes

[parsonsj]

Check out the brakes on this heavy Chevy:

http://w3.www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0501_1967_chevy_chevelle_malibu/index.html

Excerpt:

Brakes: Up front, there are Wilwood 13-inch rotors grabbed by Grand National six-piston calipers. Out back are 12-inch rotors and four-piston Outlaw calipers. Dual Wilwood master cylinders, one for the front and one for the back, feature an integrated balance bar. Unlike a single master cylinder and prop valve setup that can only reduce rear brake pressure, the tandem system allows increasing and decreasing both front and rear bias in addition to affording better pedal feel.

[wmhjr]

John,

I've read this stuff. Unfortunately almost without exception it's talking about putting pretty large hats on, with major modifications to the brake system - essentially replacing every single component perhaps including all the lines. There also still seems to be variability in what one considers the "correct" bore size, and even whether or not the manual brakes still require increased effort.

What would be helpful would be to understand how somebody (like me or the OP) would consider running manual brakes without replacing all the calipers, rotors, master cylinder and brake lines. I would honestly be quite interested. As an example, I have "OEM style" front rotors and single caliper discs and 11" ford rear drums. 1 1/8" bore master cylinder. Brand new "factory spec" stainless brake lines from Right Stuff.

[wmhjr]

I'll take the motor off your hands for no charge. Heck I'll even pay for the shipping myself. :naughty:

Can you "clearance" your valve covers? Maybe go with some paintable stamped ones rather than cast or chromed.

Thanks, I'll think about it :)

Can't clearance the valve covers. They are machined billet covers but to be honest it looks as though due to the lift, etc, there just probably will not be enough room. I really won't know for sure until I drop the body back down but I measured prior to disassembly and it's real unlikely that it's going to fit. We'll see what happens. I really would like some more advice, but so far I'm leaning toward a Hydratech unit if this turns out to be reality. I don't want to experiment too much with the brakes.

[parsonsj]

Good question.

Set aside the lines. They don't care, and 3/16" vs 1/4" doesn't really matter all that much.

To figure out what you want to know requires you to provide the bore sizes of the pistons in your calipers, swept area of the rotor (or pad size), and diameter of the outer edge of the pad where it touches the rotor. Things you can do without an aftermarket brake setup would include changing the bore size of the master, changing the pedal ratio, and more aggressive pads (and shoes, I guess).

I assume these are floating calipers?

As an aside, you're never going to have more than average performance with that equipment. Certainly enough to enjoy cruising, drag racing, and autoX. But those brakes probably won't cut it out on a big track without significant fade issues. Which I assume fits your intended usage.

jp

[wmhjr]

You're correct. My vehicle is not being built for road racing. It's a "Resto-Mod" that will be driven lightly on weekends, cruises and shows, and will find itself at the drag strip every once in a while. I want it to handle and perform better than original but will not autocross. So, my main brake concerns are general drivability under "normal" conditions, maintenance requirements, fitment, and pretty much that's it. I mean, let's face it. It's a '66 A-Body convertible that I don't want to put a cage in. No matter what, it's not going to be a road racing demon.

I'm also assuming that changing the pedal ratio will require changing of the brake pedal setup - also then meaning changing the clutch pedal setup. Since the "hanging" or "mounting" location is fixed and the bottom is close to the floor, I would need to modify the mount in order to keep the pedal "close to" the same location but alter the pedal ratio. It's a little late in the project to do that unless it's absolute necessary.

I am using floating calipers. Stock GM type. Not sure of the bore size. Single piston. 11" rotors. That's all I've got at the moment - I'm not near the components right now.

[aray327]

Hey guys remember me, I started this thread? Glad to see there has been a good exchange of information. Maybe you can help me again.

Can I mount my hydroboost unit upside down? The unit is designed to have the nitrogen mounted towards the motor. That gets back into the valve cover area which is what I was trying to avoid. Can I mount it upside down? I would have to grind in a new weep hole but is there anything else to be concerned about. Plus it will look better with the hoses on the bottom.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/IMG_1388-1.jpg?t=1235838355

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/IMG_1389-1.jpg?t=1235838065


I think I may start a new thread as well.

[a73formula]

My 65 chevelle, although not a super heavy car, has manual wilwood brakes all the way around and it stops great every time. For what you doing with the car I would co manual and keep the engine compartment a little cleaner.

My .02