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View Full Version : Baer's new 6 piston caliper ?



datsbad
03-08-2005, 12:23 PM
I am about to order one of these kits . does anyone have any pics of what they look like? they said they are offering 13.5 , 14 and 15" rotor options .
also the rear are now coming with a dual piston 13" rotor up from a single piston and 12" . i am excited :bananna2:
much cheaper than those alcons they used to sell . can anyone help ?

quadfather
03-08-2005, 03:37 PM
very similar to the alcon but they have dust seals and anti rattle clips for the pads .they should be pretty nice .

c.schulz
03-08-2005, 03:42 PM
Awesome Id like to see this also.Im thinking of upgrading my brakes.The old track system is looking old.

Chris

jeffandre
03-08-2005, 04:14 PM
I need to know the piston sizes...

TitoJones
03-08-2005, 04:22 PM
I have a set on order for a 6 piston S caliper with 15" 2pc rotors for the front, and a 6 piston 14" rear for a 67 Camaro. Baer said it would ship last month, but they are still not here. When they show (possibly in April last I checked) I'll post up all I can on them.

Tyler

Van B
03-08-2005, 09:29 PM
I also have a set on order, 13" front with 6 piston calipers, and 13"rear. Will post when received.

HOT OHC
03-08-2005, 10:16 PM
also have a set on order, 13" front with 6 piston calipers, and 13"rear. Will post when received.

Could you be so kind to tell us what the cost is? I am sure others would like to know too.

Thanks

Mean 69
03-09-2005, 07:48 AM
It is my understanding that the new six pot calipers have the same size pistons as the Alcon's they used previously (imagine that). Someone that gets a new set can substantiate that, but the piston sizes in my Alcon units are 1.188, 1.375, 1.625 for a total effective piston area (count one side only for fixed caliper designs) of 4.67", squared. For comparison, a C4 front PBR has an effective area of 3.51 in2, and the C5 units are 3.89 in2.

15" rotor! Whew! Dat's big.... 20" wheels required?

Mark

TitoJones
03-09-2005, 11:17 AM
Mark-

Yeah, it is running a 20x10 and a 20x12 combo with C5 front suspension, and C4 rear IRS. Should be wicked when done, as I managed to get the entire big block to sit behind the front axle center line.

Tyler

datsbad
03-10-2005, 04:45 PM
pics sure would be nice :bananna2:

protour_chevelle
03-10-2005, 06:33 PM
What I want to see is a kit like Brembo built for the A/B-bodies. We're struggling to clear calipers on 12 inch rotors in a 16inch rim, 13inch rotors in a 17inch wheel, etc. The Beemer and Mercedes are clearing massive rotors with 17/18 inch wheels. Make that technology work for our cars. Would be bad ass.

Mind you, I think 6 piston calipers in the rear is overkill. Even 6 piston fronts are overkill for what most cars see. So why would I want that big ass brake set-up by a top end euro company. odd. Just my opinion though. Dont get me wrong I'll build something overkill but I dont have money to buy things just to say I do. I'm happy with 2 pistons up front and singles in the back. :)

-Matt

USAZR1
03-10-2005, 07:08 PM
Movit-DE offers Brembo brake kits for A-bodies. I've seen a 15" rotor kit with their six piston calipers. http://www.movit.de/htm/homefut2.htm

TitoJones
04-26-2005, 01:17 AM
pics sure would be nice :bananna2:

Sorry they are so late, but here they are:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/Spindle.jpg

Let me know if you want pics of the car as well.

Tyler

David Sloan
04-26-2005, 04:42 AM
Come on Tyler!!!
Give us the car porn!!!!!!! :jump:

wendell
04-26-2005, 09:04 AM
This is a general question; has any one been able to take advantage of these huge rear brakes? 4.6 inches of piston area? How does all the force get put down on the road? I've got a buddy that races vintage T/A and he's dithering the heck out of his little 4 pots to get decent balance w/ hoosier slicks.

As I'm currently researching realistic braking options for my 67RS, I'd be interested to hear some driving impressions and/or 60-0 distances that these big brakes are getting.

Any input is appriciated.
Tyler- spy photos look hot.

J

CFster
04-26-2005, 01:58 PM
Sometimes people have the wrong idea about 4 and 6 piston calipers. It's not the number of pistons, but the total area that determines clamping force. There are single piston floating calipers that have more clamping force (all else being equal) than a 4 piston Wilwood Dynalite. There are however other factors that make the Wilwoods better for some applications.

Ideally, rear brakes should have a piston area between 50% and 75% the size of the front piston area. And even when you're approaching 75% usually a proportioning valve is required to prevent the rears from locking up.

Anything more is just overkill. There just isn't enough traction back there under braking.

Sure looks nice though...

68RallySport
04-26-2005, 05:39 PM
Ya we want pictures of the car!!! Man those things look awsome, now someone lend me the huge price tag and ill use them....

TitoJones
04-27-2005, 03:56 AM
Alright, jeez- twist my arm already..

The car is a 67 Camaro, with a C5 Wayne Due front end, and a C4 Dana 44 IRS rear. The engine is a aluminum BBC, backed by a G force T56 and McLeod bellhousing. We used Global West SFC's, and added 20" wheels.
The car basicly a race car for the street so we put the big block behind the front axle centerline with engine plates.
The owner is also a fan of the low flared look, with multi spoke 20" rims, so we had some concept art done by John McBride, and Kris Horton:
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/0.jpg
This one was to try and get the wheel design just right. We had 3 others custom designs, but this was the chosen one.

This next design was to get a feel for how wide the client wanted to stretch his fender flares:
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/01.jpg

Here is a shot of the under car from the front forward. If you look closely, you can see the crank balancer is even with the front control arms. The frame is Wayne Due, the Trans is an LS1 unit with G force internals, the SFC's are Global West, and the rear is a Wayne Due weld in kit with a 96 C4 Dana 44 IRS.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/24.jpg

This is a better look at the C5 front suspension. We changed little on the suspension to make the geometry as good as it can be. Rack placement dictated engine setback, but turned out to be benifical for weight distribution.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/25.jpg

This is the engine behind the front axle centerline. Getting the egine and T56 to fit required lots of cutting. This car will be geting a fully fabricated floor, firewall and trunk.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/26.jpg

Showing the setback of the engine into the firewall, and T56 tunnel mods
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/27.jpg

This is the massive 20x13" rim wrapped with Pirelli 345/25/ZR/20 tires.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/28.jpg

front and rear 20" rims on the car. Offset was made to stick wheels out of the wells so the car could get a wider 70's style Trans am fender flare, per the client's request. Car has no weight in it (engine block is plastic, and the car is not on the ground in that pic) so it looks like a 4x4, but it will not be.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/29.jpg

Rear underside view of rims and tires, as well as the C4 IRS install.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/30.jpg

Wheel and tire stance before setting car on the ground.
https://www.pro-touring.com/~tylerb/31.jpg

Hope that satisfy's your car porn needs.


Tyler

David Sloan
04-27-2005, 04:57 AM
Yep!! Just about there!!! :bsjerk:
I love this Shiiiiiit!!!!!!!!!!!! :drive1: Thanks!!!

Jagarang
04-27-2005, 05:42 AM
Where does the gas pedal GO? Oh and those pesky things we humans call legs! Looks like a tough drive unless your "Mini Me". Do you have plans for legroom and pedal placement allready?

JamesJ
04-27-2005, 09:19 AM
Off topic: Tyler are you going to move the shifter to the forward position.

chicane67
04-27-2005, 12:09 PM
Unless you are about four feet tall, the rear shifter location is mo' betta for hand transition from the stick and wheel.......basically, it more ergonomic and natural. Plus, it doesnt require a longer shifter handle.

fbsideoiler427
04-27-2005, 01:51 PM
As an alternative, I'm installing a set of AMG E55 front calipers on all corners of my 67 chevelle project. They're Brembo pieces, 8 piston and stout. I'm squeezing 15" x 35mm disks in them. A buick Stage II V6 sporting twin turbos under the hood is doing the pushing. 20 x 13's out back and 20 x 10's in the front. All the impossibilities of physics wrapped into one project.

Mean 69
04-27-2005, 03:58 PM
Very interesting on the AMG units. Where did you get them/cost? Do you know the total piston area of them?

As an aside, I spoke with one of the senior rep's at the Del Mar car show and tried to gleen some more info from him. They had a caliper there, really looked identical to my new Alcon Monoblocks, but it was obviously a cnc'd piece, you could see the tooling marks. Soon the units will be forged aluminum though, tooling and production will be done in-house. I asked him why they are moving this inside, and his response was that it was mainly a cost issue. His response indicated that the price of the tooling necessary to make such a part has come down significantly, and that the folks at Alcon, Brembo, AP, etc, haven't adjusted their pricing accordingly. Hmm. I can see how that might be the case. Anyway, another interesting tidbit is that they initially intend to use six pots in the rear too! Why? Economy, and it makes perfect sense. To balance things, they will run smaller pistons in the rear calipers, eventually they will come out with a four pot unit. Race capable? They intend to offer a stainless piston that will be suitable for a race caliper in the future. He mentioned that this option would compete with calipers such as the TA6 from Alcon, and the other like high end endurance/race calipers. I personally have reservations, it is not merely the caliper body that makes the race units so good, it is the thermal isolation between the pads and the fluid that seperate a race (especially endurance) caliper from everything else. Just look at the rotors on a road race car in a night shot, they literally glow bright orange, and this color temperature is WAY above the dry boiling point of even the best brake fluids. Anyway, I feel maybe a bit more understanding of Baer as a result of this conversation (a real man will admit when he is wrong). They will eventually sell the calipers seperate from the kits too, which is good for everyone, and he was confident the pricing would be very competitive.

Great pic's, Tyler, that is going to be one bad boy hot rod for certain. I recognize the couch!!! I am sure you guys have thought about it, but that Milodon pan isn't going to cut it for turn burning, talk him into a good Canton/make a new one for him, and get him an Accusump!

Mark

Ralph LoGrasso
04-27-2005, 06:00 PM
Wow, that car is going to be awesome when complete! Keep us updated and post pics as you take 'em.

JamesJ
04-27-2005, 09:38 PM
Chicane67: Maybe the pics just make it look far back. Since everyone says that the T56 works great just bolting it up, with the engine set back so far you would think that it would be to far back. But what do I know. I am sure you got it figured out.

Pelle75
04-27-2005, 11:45 PM
Movit-DE offers Brembo brake kits for A-bodies. I've seen a 15" rotor kit with their six piston calipers. http://www.movit.de/htm/homefut2.htm


MOVIT doesnt offer Brembo kits they produce their own kits, 100% made in Germany.

Here is a MOVIT 459x36 6 piston caliper kit, its a 15" rotor to the right :worship:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


And the "smaller" 370x35 6 piston caliper kit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

USAZR1
04-28-2005, 07:11 PM
When Guido Frensmayer owned the company,they offered Brembo kits for A-bodies. I bought a Brembo kit for my 90 ZR-1 Corvette from Movit-DE and Guido tried to sell me a kit for my El Camino.
He no longer owns the company,however.

Mean 69
04-28-2005, 07:17 PM
Without question, the previous Movit kits were based upon Porsche calipers (and rotors, for that matter!). It could be a question of a re-label of the Brembo parts, rather than them actually making their own calipers. Not that it matters terribly, mind you. Porsche cars have really, really good brakes. Outstanding pedal feel, best I have ever driven.

M

chicane67
04-28-2005, 07:55 PM
Chicane67: Maybe the pics just make it look far back. Since everyone says that the T56 works great just bolting it up, with the engine set back so far you would think that it would be to far back. But what do I know. I am sure you got it figured out.


Actually James, our client is not as tall as some of us and it just happened to work out better for his leg and torso length to leave the shifter where it is. As it was, we had to move the pedal assembly aft a fair distance to make it to his feet and to also clear the firewall/foot well with the engine relocated. This cat is just about as wide as he is tall..... being a body builder and all..... so Tyler had to fly out to the customers location and fit the appointments to him personally. The shifter for this chassis will be left in the rear location, accordingly.

I kinda like the idea of relocating the shifter and using shorter internal rails in the tranny, as it places the load on the rails in a more ridgid place on the shaft themselves. Which adds up to less miss shifts from the rails bending.

alfone
04-28-2005, 11:41 PM
When Guido Frensmayer owned the company,they offered Brembo kits for A-bodies. I bought a Brembo kit for my 90 ZR-1 Corvette from Movit-DE and Guido tried to sell me a kit for my El Camino.
He no longer owns the company,however.
Hi, as webmaster of the MOV' IT site I read this and would like to correct:

Guido my son is still the one and only owner of the MOV' IT Company ...
Where did You get this information?

regards ...
dietmar

JamesJ
05-16-2005, 06:34 PM
Hey ATS boys, what is the diameter of that 6S with rotor, or even better any idea what the recommended minimum ID of a wheel would be?

USAZR1
05-16-2005, 08:21 PM
Hi, as webmaster of the MOV' IT site I read this and would like to correct:
Guido my son is still the one and only owner of the MOV' IT Company ...
Where did You get this information?
regards ...
dietmar

Glad to hear I was given the wrong information,Dietmar. I always enjoyed dealing with Guido. Please give him my best wishes.

TitoJones
05-16-2005, 11:47 PM
Hey ATS boys, what is the diameter of that 6S with rotor, or even better any idea what the recommended minimum ID of a wheel would be?

Sorry, I didn't take a measurement of the entire assembly while we had it. I'd venture to say that some 17" whees will clear that setup, but most likely will need an 18" wheel.

Tyler

F70t/a
05-17-2005, 08:05 AM
tyler,


What size tire is on that 20x10?

TitoJones
05-17-2005, 01:29 PM
tyler,


What size tire is on that 20x10?

Fronts are 20x10 with a 285/25/YR/20 and the rears are a 20x13 with a 345/25/YR/20.

Tyler

Travis B
05-17-2005, 01:42 PM
Wow that engine is way back! What are you going to do with all the extra room!

USAZR1
05-17-2005, 06:59 PM
Fronts are 20x10 with a 285/25/YR/20 and the rears are a 20x13 with a 345/25/YR/20.
Tyler

I've asked this question before but never got an answer,,so here goes again. :slap:
"Tyler,who made that 345/20 tire?"

F70t/a
05-17-2005, 07:18 PM
Pirelli makes them

TitoJones
05-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Clint-
They are made by Pirelli, we got them from the Tire Rack.

Tyler

USAZR1
05-18-2005, 03:24 PM
Thanks,I figured it was either Pirelli or Michelin who made them.

Back to the subject of brakes,I picked up my El Camino today from Steve Cook Creations in Oklahoma City. A project car they're building is going to use SSBC brakes. Since I had only seen their calipers in photos,I wasn't impressed for some reason. Well,Steve showed me one of their black four piston units and let me tell you,that thing was massive. Pictures don't do them justice.