Enough is enough! Everyone read this!

[Bill Howell]

Ok, I am going to be nice here, those guilty know who you are. Don't make us call you out on this. It doesn't matter if you are a sponsor or a regular member, this is not professional, and we will no longer tolerate this practice.

If you have a duplicate account, we know about it. It's not hard to tell. We haven't said anything about it so far, but we know. We're not going to demand that you give one up or delete it or anything like that, but we will promise you this:

If you have a duplicate account, or a buddy who you have the password to their account, or any other excuse to have multiple accounts... if any of these are true, and you post up a response to your own post pretending to be a different person, then one of several possible outcomes will occur:

1. All of your posts in that thread (from both your accounts) will be deleted. If you created the thread, the whole thread goes away.
2. One or both accounts will be banned for a period of time, up to and including forever.
3. We'll out you in the thread.

Now, these seem harsh, but we have lost count of the number of for-sale posts folks have thrown up, and then said something positive about the car or the seller on their own thread.

Sponsors: Some of you are doing it too. That's not an honest business practice, and if you get caught doing it, it'll reflect badly and really end up costing you business.


You know who you are, please take this seriously and don't make us call you out on it, it would be really embarrassing to you.

One other thing, if you have a item for sale that has been for sale for six months, and the only person bumping it to the top is yourself, consider why that is. Either no one here is interested in your car or part or you are too high on it. Sorry, that is just the facts of life. Lower the price or stop bumping it to the top. Again, you know who you are and if I am talking to you here, bewarned, it doesn't go unnoticed.

OK, thanks for your attention here guys, now back to our regularly scheduled program.....

[GBodyGMachine]

Well, that makes sense. Not harsh at all IMHO. I didn't know people were doing that, but I'm glad I know now.
Thanks Bill,
Jeff Shortt

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i got a dual personality... should i delete it?

ahahha

co signing this thread tho..

[Steve1968LS2]

We call them "sock puppets" lol

The problem isn't having two accounts, it's using those accounts to decieve.

[Munster]

I also didn't even know that this was a problem or even that people could do it. But it does now arm me with the knowledge to watch out for it. Squash em, normal common sense tells everyone that this type of action is wrong, and they should expect nothing less than to be spanked for it. Bringing a few of them out in the light, like vampires, would also be a big deterant to others.

[TonyL]

Just FYI anyone caught doing this in the future will get a spiffy new user title and avatar pic.

And I just cant wait to use them.

[MrQuick]

I don't really understand why one would do this. But my wife has an account but she never posts...its just to make sure im not buying more cars. Will that show as a dup? Same IP.

[Bill Howell]

I don't really understand why one would do this. But my wife has an account but she never posts...its just to make sure im not buying more cars. Will that show as a dup? Same IP.

To answer your question Vince, yes it would, and has shown up as two users with the same IP. However, nothing wrong with that, she has never came on and talked about how great it was to do business with you or what a deal your nova would be if she only had the money, etc, etc.
Funny though she has to watch you......lol
I know all about that...

[TonyL]

actually it's not just the IP that gives it away. It's something else unique to just the one computer. This assures us it's not two guys from the same neighborhood, but its the same machine.

[MrQuick]

To answer your question Vince, yes it would, and has shown up as two users with the same IP. However, nothing wrong with that, she has never came on and talked about how great it was to do business with you or what a deal your nova would be if she only had the money, etc, etc.
Funny though she has to watch you......lol
I know all about that...
yeah, it got bad for a while there. With 18 cars and wanting more...not so good. We are back on track now and im allowed in the for sale section again. LOL :fingersx:

Ok, I see what the deal is. Thanks for the spell out Bill.

[Nicks67GTO]

LOL! This is funny, people as well as vendors were throwing their own ticker tape parade??!!......LOL! Thank you mods for the heads up and please be rough on this.

[Vegas69]

I've smelled a few rats around here from time to time..it all makes sense now.

[chicane67]

Just FYI anyone caught doing this in the future will get a spiffy new user title and avatar pic.

And I just cant wait to use them.

Where's the popcorn smiley when you need one ?? Personally, I find this to be very fitting for the circumstances.

[protour_chevelle]

Just FYI anyone caught doing this in the future will get a spiffy new user title and avatar pic.

And I just cant wait to use them.
we do this on another forum. Avatar reads "I am a **** Head" with a nice poo in the background. The title reads "On the **** list" hahah

[Scott Parkhurst]

Wow.

just...Wow.

[TonyL]

Now. Just to be clear. The problem is VERY prevalent in the "for sale" section. Casual users are the ones doing it. Vendors that do it are rare, and 9 out of 10 times do it before they become a paid sponsor of the site, trying to "fluff" their reputation during their introductions.

Don't go thinking our sponsors are not to be trusted.

[Steve1968LS2]

Yea, this and the "making pointless posts so that you reach the threshold to sell stuff" deal are our two most annoying problems.

[parsonsj]

For Sale section is right. Look for brand new-members bumping threads up in there. There's a couple of obvious ones right now.

But, as Tony said, we can tell exactly when we have two userids on the same computer. We don't just suspect... we know. :look:

jp

[minendrews68]

I guess I'm goofy too! I didn't notice it either. WHY, can't people do what's right and leave it at that? I'll never understand. Besides I have enough problems keeping up with one account let alone two! Rules are rules abide...

[TonyL]

I can understand the need to build a reputation for yourself, but seeing these jokers saying thing's like "I bought such and such part from this guy, and he sent it right away!" Scares the hell out of us, for your guy's sakes.

So, in an effort to to put an end to it, and to have a little fun on our parts, for all the grief they've put us through, we cant wait to unleash the hounds on the next iggiot who tries it....

[shmoov69]

Well, I'll just pump myself up in all my posts from now on! LOL. If a dog cant wag its own tail, who will lol I knew there was a few sponsors that did it occasionaly, and it was annoying to say the least! But I haven't been keeping up too much of late
Thanks for keeping it on the up and up mods!

[chicane67]

It's the E-Bay generation... and the mentality that goes right along with it.

"I need to look good to dump this stuff"...

[1969CamaroRS]

Just FYI anyone caught doing this in the future will get a spiffy new user title and avatar pic.

And I just cant wait to use them.

Oh, you should show that off. Might be an even nicer deterrent for such behavior :nopity:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Please!.. i want to see one get his card pulled ASAP!!!

for example purposes....

[Damn True]

You'll know it when you see it.

[novanutcase]

Guess I better cancel my other accounts......

J/K

What I don't understand is how dumb these people are using the same IP address. DUH!!!

John

[WS6]

man I wish I was a mod and got to see all the behind the scenes drama sometimes.

As for the new rules, I think they are fine. I can believe people would do it, I just don't see why bother.

[b-man]

I'm a mod on another site.

We ban 'em for good when we find out someone is posting under two different usernames.

If somebody can't log in on their regular account and starts another account for that reason only, we let it slide. But in that instance, the user isn't posting under 2 names at the same time, or having a conversation with themselves in a thread.

My personal opinion about anyone here who is playing games with 2 or more usenames?

They should be tossed for good, no question in my mind.

[86Cutlass383SR]

First off, I'd like to say this. I'm no super genius when it comes to computers and I guess a bit naive when it comes to some of the underhanded business practices some people can posess.

I'm glad we have those mods in the background looking out for things that others like me are oblivious to.

I don't know how often you guys hear it but keep up the good work and cheers to all who help keep this site as awesome as it is! :cheers:

[dhutton]

I see the first sock puppet has been outed in the for sale section...

[Martin71RS]

doesn't the "regular" username need something like:

My sock puppet is called .........

???????? then it works both ways.

thanks mods, good action/rules!

[poormans69]

All right, I'll out myself. I did create two different user names. I probably have 3 or 4 as I'm not that computer savvy and have lost passwords and have entered wrong email addresses and have a hell of a time logging in so it was much easier to create a new account than go back and forth with Larry on what was the deal (check my past emails to Larry). I got a time out for trying to sell my crap without 50 posts (but way more than 3 months - check my past posts) and still wanted to read about the build updates so I did create a new account to check the build updates and keep up on the latest. I had no idea people were pumping themselves up for selling purposes or creating havoc on this forum, but I feel like I am now grouped in with these people. I, in no way, meant any harm to anyone here or meant to demean the integrity of this site. If any of the moderators could delete all other user accounts to this IP address besides the one I'm using now, I would greatly appreciate that.

I feel like there is going to be a feeding frenzy on me for my admission to this matter. There's almost a mob mentality with a few here and take stuff like this very personal. I didn't kick your dog or slap your mama (or call your Camaro a Camero). I do understand where strict guidelines need to be followed in order to keep this site credible and just. I hope I can be a contributing member to this site and one day be able to give someone advice on how/what to do. Until then, I'll be a quiet member. I was raised to keep my mouth shut and my ears and eyes open. So while I might not post much, I do appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge so unselfishly where people like me can cut time, headaches, and money to achieve a better performing vehicle.

Thank you.

[novanutcase]

All right, I'll out myself. I did create two different user names. I probably have 3 or 4 as I'm not that computer savvy and have lost passwords and have entered wrong email addresses and have a hell of a time logging in so it was much easier to create a new account than go back and forth with Larry on what was the deal (check my past emails to Larry). I got a time out for trying to sell my crap without 50 posts (but way more than 3 months - check my past posts) and still wanted to read about the build updates so I did create a new account to check the build updates and keep up on the latest. I had no idea people were pumping themselves up for selling purposes or creating havoc on this forum, but I feel like I am now grouped in with these people. I, in no way, meant any harm to anyone here or meant to demean the integrity of this site. If any of the moderators could delete all other user accounts to this IP address besides the one I'm using now, I would greatly appreciate that.

I feel like there is going to be a feeding frenzy on me for my admission to this matter. There's almost a mob mentality with a few here and take stuff like this very personal. I didn't kick your dog or slap your mama (or call your Camaro a Camero). I do understand where strict guidelines need to be followed in order to keep this site credible and just. I hope I can be a contributing member to this site and one day be able to give someone advice on how/what to do. Until then, I'll be a quiet member. I was raised to keep my mouth shut and my ears and eyes open. So while I might not post much, I do appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge so unselfishly where people like me can cut time, headaches, and money to achieve a better performing vehicle.

Thank you.

I don't think the mods are so concerned with you having multiple accounts so much as in how you use them.

John

[Damn True]

All right, I'll out myself. I did create two different user names. I probably have 3 or 4 as I'm not that computer savvy and have lost passwords and have entered wrong email addresses and have a hell of a time logging in so it was much easier to create a new account than go back and forth with Larry on what was the deal (check my past emails to Larry). I got a time out for trying to sell my crap without 50 posts (but way more than 3 months - check my past posts) and still wanted to read about the build updates so I did create a new account to check the build updates and keep up on the latest. I had no idea people were pumping themselves up for selling purposes or creating havoc on this forum, but I feel like I am now grouped in with these people. I, in no way, meant any harm to anyone here or meant to demean the integrity of this site. If any of the moderators could delete all other user accounts to this IP address besides the one I'm using now, I would greatly appreciate that.

I feel like there is going to be a feeding frenzy on me for my admission to this matter. There's almost a mob mentality with a few here and take stuff like this very personal. I didn't kick your dog or slap your mama (or call your Camaro a Camero). I do understand where strict guidelines need to be followed in order to keep this site credible and just. I hope I can be a contributing member to this site and one day be able to give someone advice on how/what to do. Until then, I'll be a quiet member. I was raised to keep my mouth shut and my ears and eyes open. So while I might not post much, I do appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge so unselfishly where people like me can cut time, headaches, and money to achieve a better performing vehicle.

Thank you.

Attitude is everything ya know....and yours is well.....poor. I'd suggest not thumbing your nose at the rules. Ask Yody how that worked out for him.

[Damn True]

I see the first sock puppet has been outed in the for sale section...


Yes indeedy folks.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=493287&posted=1#post493287

Crazyfireman and aharrison are posting from the same computer.

[bigvegan]

Nice work on this guys.

That sock puppet avatar is hilarious!

[venturabeachpup]

Now. Just to be clear. The problem is VERY prevalent in the "for sale" section. Casual users are the ones doing it. Vendors that do it are rare, and 9 out of 10 times do it before they become a paid sponsor of the site, trying to "fluff" their reputation during their introductions.

Don't go thinking our sponsors are not to be trusted.


Thanks Tony for posting this. It removes the irony of reading a sticky that encourages us to buy from sponsoring vendors.

Thanks to all the mods who are vigilant in such matters.

[derekf]

If any of the moderators could delete all other user accounts to this IP address besides the one I'm using now, I would greatly appreciate that. At a quick glance I found three others for you. I lack the rights to delete - only Larry can do that - but I have removed their ability to log on.

[Bishop73]

Shady, shady, shady.

[poormans69]

I'm sorry "Damn True" if you feel I was thumbing my nose at the rules. I feel I was following them by what the rules read. I have come to find that the rules were wrong or not updated to what the "now" standards are. I thought I got all of this out in my previous posts and a moderator looked at the rules and realized they had forgotten to update them (50 posts necessary to sell something). They then thanked me for pointing that out and life goes on. No hard feelings.

I then out myself (very Jason Giambi like with the whole steroids thing) about having multiple user names. I like to be honest and feel like honesty is a dying trait in today's society. I cannot stand liars, thieves, or cheats. All I wanted to do was read up on the latest trends learn a few things, then sell a few items I had laying in the garage. That's where it got scewed.

I feel I have a positive attitude but now I wear the black sheeps wool. Oh well. Can't please em all.

There is one rule I feel has not been enforced, or maybe it's just been bent a little:
"3). Positive Attitudes: "Trash-talking" a.k.a. "flaming" is greatly frowned upon at Pro-Touring.com. Our members come here to enjoy themselves and gather helpful information for their projects. In accordance, we ask that you please maintain a positive attitude whilst posting in the forums. You are entitled to your opinion and individuality, but at the same time: if you post in an inflammatory manner, your post well be deleted or edited for content deemed unnecessary by an Administrator or Moderator, and the thread possibly closed. If you continue to post in such a manner, administrative action will be taken, and you will be banned.

So while people are being called homosexuals, retards, and intimidated, these actions go on without a beat. I just need to know what rules to follow. I don't know who this person is that you compare me to, but he sounds like the site villian. I don't want to be that guy or be compared to him but i feel like I've been pegged by a few here already. I feel like if any of us met in real life you would find me very approachable and very positive. But the fact is the internet gives people attitudes they normally wouldn't carry in the real world. I hope we can move forward from this and just talk cars or car related subjects.

BTW "Damn True", I wouldn't consider myself a dead head, but i do enjoy the Grateful Dead and own a few cd's. What a short strange trip it's been.

[poormans69]

BTW Derek, thank you.

[BonzoHansen]

Larry & the PT staff, I understand your problems....



Yes indeedy folks.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=493287&posted=1#post493287

Crazyfireman and aharrison are posting from the same computer.

At our local site we do allow members to post parts/cars they do not personally own (with rare exception for family members, etc). If the ad says "for my friend" or whatever, it gets axed. We do allow ebay & craiglists posts at NastyZ (hey, check this out type stuff).

[The WidowMaker]

since i can't be politically correct, i'll just tip my hat to the mods and leave it at that.

[Bill Howell]

OK guys, no personal attacks here, keep your comments to yourselves. There have been several, and I mean about ten members, both regular and a couple sponsors that have done this in the past couple months. We have keep a close eye on it, sent some pms, etc. The ones that looked suspicious we have kept an eye on. Had anyone bought something we were worried about, we would have contacted the buyer in private just to give them a heads up. However, that has not been an issue yet. Just because someone has two usernames, doesn't make them a crook, we just want to be sure we are doing everything in our power to protect unsuspecting members. Remember, we have over 15000 registered members, and about 10 moderators, so it is a daily job to keep up with the classified section. I don't think we have had anyone beat out of anything by dual users, but we want everything above board and question. We all know what the new policy is now, let's all abide by it.

[poormans69]

Sounds groovy daddy-o.

[1969CamaroRS]

Remember, we have over 15000 registered members, and about 10 moderators, so it is a daily job to keep up with the classified section.

I don't envy you guys. But thanks very much for the daily work you all do in keeping the board clean!

[klunde]

I joined in January of last year, but have only posted 4 times. Am I able to post something for sale? without people thinking I'm a deadbeat of some kind?
I don't have anything for sale, but some day I might.
I just like reading different post, but mostly the for sale section.
One of these days I'll either find something I need at the time it's for sale, or buy something i don't need, and find a car to put it on.:pat:

[SicMonte]

wow, I had no idea this stuff went on. Good job mods!!!!!

[JamesJ]

Half the reason I don't look at this board as much as I did before is just because of this, to much BS. Be mean, the people who you want to be here will stay, let the others leave or make them, wont bother me a bit...

[Damn True]

I joined in January of last year, but have only posted 4 times. Am I able to post something for sale? without people thinking I'm a deadbeat of some kind?
I don't have anything for sale, but some day I might.
I just like reading different post, but mostly the for sale section.
One of these days I'll either find something I need at the time it's for sale, or buy something i don't need, and find a car to put it on.:pat:

The Classifieds are for participating members in good standing. You are free to use them to purchase anything you like. However, in order to post an item for sale you must have 50 legit posts. This ensures people don't use PT.com as a market focused version of Craigslist.

[BonzoHansen]

wow, I had no idea this stuff went on. Good job mods!!!!!

You have no idea...

[68Formula]

I'm sorry "Damn True" if you feel I was thumbing my nose at the rules. I feel I was following them by what the rules read. I have come to find that the rules were wrong or not updated to what the "now" standards are.

That fact that you continue (on more than one thread) to justify your actions is very disturbing on many levels.

Let's make this clear. You were not trying to follow the rules. You were trying to circumvent the rules by exploiting them. You knew their intention, and you intended to get around them. Hence the deleted one-word posts, followed by this infamous beauty: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52304. Then it was "well the rules were not clear enough." So now we have to have very tight, specific statements to try and close any loopholes. Just like some of the silly laws that are on the books, because some people managed to find loopholes. And just keep everyone

If everyone acted morally and as a good citizen, we wouldn't need to write forum rules in lawyer form that take up an entire page.

It's also insulting, that you think we would actually believe that you were acting out of ignorance, or that somehow it was the forums fault, not you. You've continued to back this position, so it's clear you really didn't learn your lesson. You've aplogized for the here and now, but I suspect more problems in the future unless the attitude changes.

As for outing yourself... don't think so. You were outed, and that's the only time you admit fault.


https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=492131&highlight=poormans69#post492131

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=488197#post488197

Honestly, I would never exchanging money for goods or vice-versa, with someone with this attitude and behavior. You bend general moral guidlines and rules as it fits you, and that's not a good situation for traders.

[poormans69]

Well Mike,
You've really burned some calories on blackballing me. I appreciate you predicting the future of my actions (I gotta get one of those magic crystal balls) and what I am as a human being.

To quote TonyL,
"actually, Im glad you posted that quote. I missed one when i updated all the rules. it's now *50* posts minimum, and the following is included in the rules"

I think we've all moved on from this mess I've caused, but you have dug through all my posts and picked through them with your surgical gloves on to find all my faults and human flaws, that I now seem like the Bernie Madoff of this site. It must feel good to be a perfect human and live in a sparkling clean glass house. Can you list all of the damage I have caused? I'm sure you can but you will find it has done no harm to anyone. It's all childish in nature really. Alot of fingure pointing and name calling. But I'm sure you can predict what I'm going to do next.

I've heard it from all the moderators in this forum, and now I have to hear it from you. If this is what gets you off, so be it. I've personally moved on from the whole fiasco and I suggest you do the same. But if you want to keep digging up the past, that's on you. If you feel I've personally affected you in any way and you've lost sleep over it, my apologies. Life must be good to only worry about what I did weeks-months ago. Please feel free to keep tabs on me so you can fallow every word I type. If you really had a problem with me I'm sure you could have pm'ed me with your deep concerns and we could have settled it in private like alot of the moderators have done. But then what would you do with that soapbox you're standing on?

Ok, If anyone feels like kicking me in the nads over all the damage I have done, I'll be going to some shows here on the west coast and you can put on your steel toe boots and you can meet me in person and let me have it. After the kicking I get in the nads, we'll go have a beer and laugh at how childish all of this has become. I have a love of cars, not a love of computers, so I guess this whole talking behind a computer screen with your chest puffed out kind of cracks me up. We're all car guys. This will be the last time I appologize for my actions that took place a while ago. If you can't stand me, don't like my attitude, or don't get my sense of humor, well, I have no apology left for you.

On a better note, I just epoxy primed the Camaro and I'll be posting pics soon.

[poormans69]

BTW Mike,
I guess you're into AMC's. My buddy put on a car show last fall and had the old AMC SCCA race car that penske owned (1970?), trailered down for the car show. He drove it 2 blocks to the car show on city streets, and boy was that awesome. It sounded great. You could feel the vibrations in your chest. I'll get some pics from him and post em up.

[68Formula]

BTW Mike,
I guess you're into AMC's. My buddy put on a car show last fall and had the old AMC SCCA race car that penske owned (1970?), trailered down for the car show. He drove it 2 blocks to the car show on city streets, and boy was that awesome. It sounded great. You could feel the vibrations in your chest. I'll get some pics from him and post em up.

Among other cars. I'd love to see a SCCA version (other than the old B&W 60s photos). Post some up, please!

:postpics:

[poormans69]

I'll call him up this weekend to see if he's got any. He's also talking to a guy right now to see if he might be able to buy a 69 Camaro SCCA car to fix to go vintage racing. I've got my fingures crossed on that one.

[TonyL]

and allow me to certify that poorman here, ISNT the problem. Sure, he's one of the persons we've had our eye on. ONE of them. One of the *only* ones with the balls to take it like a man, and admit he actually did use multiple accounts. There's lots of them out there. They know who they are. The point of this thread it to let them know So do we.

And the practice seems to have stopped completely. Which is nice. So play nice.

[poormans69]

LOL. Thanks tony. Feel free to talk about my balls any time.