suspension building parts

[thetoystore]

i plan on building my own 3-link and watts for a camaro. i'm wondering if there are any vendors that sale the parts. ie weld in bungs for rod ends,watts link parts and maybe even the brackets?

[T_Raven]

I've been looking for some good ones too man. I plan to make my own 3 or 4 link. Check this one out

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/

[thetoystore]

awsome. a lil pricey but exactly what i'm look'n for

[chicane67]

Yeah that's a good place if you building a pre-runner or chase/support truck...

But... places like Art Morrison, Competetion Engineering, Moroso, Left Hander Chassis... and other will also have the individual pieces that you are looking for.

[JRouche]

I bought everything I needed for my watts link from Ballisticfab except for the pivot which I got from Fays. Ballistic had the best prices for QA1 rod ends which in my opinion are top of the line. JR

[The WidowMaker]

+1 for ballistic fab. good parts, great prices and fast shipping.......

[Denvervet]

You can also check out this place. http://www.aa-mfg.com/ makes all sorts of fittings, spacers, brackets, etc for circle track guys.

[T_Raven]

the guy building the frame for his silverado said he got the parts for his 4 link here www.suicidedoors.com

[thetoystore]

another question is were does everyone get there airride stuff from? i've done several cars and trucks with air but never a car with this kind of performance in mind. o and i want to go with shockwaves

[JRouche]

another question is were does everyone get there airride stuff from? i've done several cars and trucks with air but never a car with this kind of performance in mind. o and i want to go with shockwaves

I got mine from a dealer in washington. 10% off list which is what I found to be the norm. Plenty of dealers can offer you that. But.. I suggest calling ART themselves. The price will be list but their guys are very knowledgeable with the product and what fits and works with many different cars and suspensions, and are easy to talk to. Had great service from them. JR

[T_Raven]

FYI, they make shock waves with built in height sensors now, I plan to use them on my 67

[thetoystore]

yea i found the internal height sensors on there site. very cool stuff

[silver69camaro]

We sell a watts kit, and about every other part you'd need.

Heck, we make the entire rear clip.

[sharp67]

Will AM sell the kit only. from what I understand they wont. I talked with one of the guys there and he told me you have to buy the whole clip setup to get it. If you can buy the kit only, how much?

[JRouche]

We sell a watts kit, and about every other part you'd need.

Heck, we make the entire rear clip.

Hi Matt. I have an AM rear 4-link rear clip, always say positive stuff re: your company and products. But I just saw the watts link setup, it wasnt on the web PDF catalog wasnt there yet, forgot where I finaly saw it.

But it looks like its a center pivot mounted to the rear end? Is that the best setup for a watts link? Having the pivot on the moving rear end?

I have thought it was better to have the pivot stationary to the body, not the moving rear end? Just curious why you guys went with that method, if you did. Im just going off the catalog pic I saw.. JR

[silver69camaro]

Sharp, I believe we just started selling it as a kit. I'll double check on that.

JR,
Yes, the center pivot is attached to the axle housing.

What is your definition of the "best" setup? Both chassis and axle mounted bellcranks have their pros and cons. Axle mounted watts are simplier, much lighter, cheaper, easier to route exhaust, and allows the use of a stock fuel tank on a first-gen. Chassis mounted watts setups look great on paper, but are difficult in the long run; honestly, the performance benefits are negligible.

[thetoystore]

^^^must be a full out racecar to even notice much

[JRouche]

JR,
Yes, the center pivot is attached to the axle housing.

What is your definition of the "best" setup? Both chassis and axle mounted bellcranks have their pros and cons. Axle mounted watts are simplier, much lighter, cheaper, easier to route exhaust, and allows the use of a stock fuel tank on a first-gen. Chassis mounted watts setups look great on paper, but are difficult in the long run; honestly, the performance benefits are negligible.

Ok for one, the traveling roll center?? S the rear end moves up and down the RC is also moving up and down.

And how about adjustable RC. With the frame mount you can have that. Not the axle mount.

Much lighter? Umm, dont think so. If the rear pumpkin is braced properly for the center link then that weight along with the pivot is gonna be close to the weight of two axle clamps. The bars are a wash for weight either way, so no weight savings.

The only unsprung weight on the frame mounted pivot is the axle clamps and half of the bars. The axle mounted has the pivot and the additional bracing needed for the pivot mount, and half the bars.. So thats kinda a wash in weight. IF the axle mount pivot is properly braced.

If its not and just welded to the axle housing without additional bracing then yeah, some weight savings. But IMO the pivot NEEDS to have sufficient bracing when its mounted to the axle. You should be willing to have your car sitting still and have a tow truck pulling with its winch on the pivot pulling your car sideways, dragging it on the ground, tires screeching. If a person shys away from that then the watts link is not up to the job. When you are in a turn at 60-100 mph and the rear is fully loaded, to the point of letting loose that is gonna be close the the same lateral load as the tow truck sliding the car. Proper bracing is necessary.

As for clearance. Yes, the axle mounted system does allow for more clearance. My system only protrudes straight down from the frame, and its about eight inches wide. But that is right behind the pumpkin so I couldnt use that space anyway, I still have all the room available to either side of the pumpkin. But yeah, some have a large lattice work of tubes that do take up alot of room.

For me the axle mounted watts is old school (read old thinking). It was great when they first came out for the hobbiest, the guy that wanted to be able to bolt a unit on and not have to go through some fabrication. With the rear ends that have removable rear covers that was a no brainer for them. Simple wrenches could get it done.

But if a company is building it from scratch on their own rear clip those issues are not a concern. They have the flexability to make the rear clip as it should be done.

Anyway, it was nice to see AME offer the watts link. Shows some forward thinking from the panhard bar setup that was offered on the earlier rear clips. And Im sure the market for AME was geared towards the strip cars, now they are looking at the turners too. I love it. I do like my rear clip I bought in 1995, it was the only thing going at the time and is still a strong system. JR

[thetoystore]

and what size rod ends do you use on your watts like rods? 3/4 seems like over kill to me

[JRouche]

and what size rod ends do you use on your watts like rods? 3/4 seems like over kill to me

I used some QA1 3/2x5/8" alloy rod ends. They have a 3/4" threaded end and a 5/8" bore for the bearing. Overkill? Dunno, maybe? But I tend to go for the stronger side of things cause Im not an engineer and I cant figure out the idea setup. Sure theres alot of guys here that can crunch the numbers and come up with ideal fastener sizing. I kind went with those due to the 5/8" bolt strengths. I think 1/2" bolts would be a lil on the small but adequate size. Im sure a MS 21250 bolt in 1/2" would be fine, but the cost is pretty high. JR

[68sixspeed]

Ok for one, the traveling roll center?? S the rear end moves up and down the RC is also moving up and down.
JR

technically the rear end never moves up and down, so axel mount is more stable on roll center height. The BODY moves up and down, the axel and tires stay at the same height from the track. (well, hopefully they stay in contact with the track!) Does the roll center move in relation the the center of gravity, yes. But it's more the center of gravity moving in relation to the roll center.

[JRouche]

technically the rear end never moves up and down, so axel mount is more stable on roll center height. The BODY moves up and down, the axel and tires stay at the same height from the track. (well, hopefully they stay in contact with the track!) Does the roll center move in relation the the center of gravity, yes. But it's more the center of gravity moving in relation to the roll center.

Ok, in the cause of nits and picking them, yeah, the axle is gonna follow the road, most of the time. But its still a relationship issue and the relationship between the CG and RC changes with every movement of the body in relation to the axle on a axle mounted pivot. It stays constant (CG/RC) relationship with a body mounted pivot point.

I think... LOL Either way, its all good cause the 24" panhard bar I am ripping out was AWFUL!!! This should be better and at this point better is good'der :yum: JR