Carroll Shelby sueing everyone agian

[StRacerDuke]

http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206492

Looks like this ***hole is on the rampage again even though he lost is last few suites. I hate how a guy who basically built a 'kitcar' in the 60's is now sueing everyone who is replicating exactly what he did.

[andrewb70]

I read the complaint briefly and it sounds like the y are making claims based on trade dress. I am no lawyer but I know that Holley tried to do the same thing against Barry Grant. While Holley technically won the case it wasn't long before Barry Grant retooled and the Demon carb was born. It was different enough that Barry Grant was able to get around the suite.

Another example is the famous case of Microsoft vs. Apple. Apple had an amazing GUI while Microsoft was still peddling DOS. Apple lost because Windows 3.11 was just different enough.

So the way I see it, unless a FF Mk3 Roadster is an EXACT copy of a Cobra, there is no basis for this suite. I can see if Factory Five was calling their car a Cobra or Shelby, but they aren't.

Shelby might have a claim against the ffcobra.com website, but time will tell.

Andrew

[Damn True]

It's a shame and a sad irony that his legacy will be tarnished by his own misguided efforts to preserve it.

[NOPANTS-68]

It's a pretty foolish thing for the old geezer to do and it's pissed a lot of Cobra enthusiasts off. He's heading towards the end of his life, and I can't imagine why other than money he'd want to end on a sour note. I'm also pretty sure anyone looking to buy or build a FFR car isn't confused as to whether or not it's a real Cobra. All these replicas have ever done is promote his legacy and create more global awareness as to who he is.

[MuscleRodz]

It's a shame and a sad irony that his legacy will be tarnished by his own misguided efforts to preserve it.
Only those informed will realize that, to everyone else he is still king. I respect the man for his accomplishments 40 years ago, but my current respect ran short when he did this the first time.

[Jim Nilsen]

Greed is like a cancer that eats away at life. Evidently his actions haven't eaten up enough of his life for him to realize that he is hurting everyone.

He would do better if he endorsed FF and had his picture everywhere on their stuff even if it was something he did for free.

He gets a lot of money every year for his signature and eventually noone will pay him for it if he even really cares anymore.

I know I don't care for his ways and maybe when he is eating his own chili and beans to just survive the smell he creates will finally have the same aroma of his latest actions.

[Twentyover]

IIRC, the prior lawsuit was based on his request that kit car suppliers donate a small portion of the proceeds of sales (and IIRC, it was SMALL) to his Heart Transplant charity. When they kind of rudely refused, he kind of filed suit.

I have no information, and therefore no opinion, on the latest suit

[bigvegan]

You mean the heart transplant charity that made all that news a few years back because it was giving less than 1% of its assets to charity, and Shelby himself hadn't donated any money to it?

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/carroll-shelbys-childrens-foundation-pays-out-bubkiss/

[Damn True]

IIRC, the prior lawsuit was based on his request that kit car suppliers donate a small portion of the proceeds of sales (and IIRC, it was SMALL) to his Heart Transplant charity. When they kind of rudely refused, he kind of filed suit.

I have no information, and therefore no opinion, on the latest suit

Yeah....that'd be extortion. Good old Shel'.

+1 on the vegans post above.

[skeeters65]

This is pure BS.. He lost the first time. FFR and the others shouldnt have to go through this again..

Good Luck to FFR.. I still my FFR Roadster.. Maybe I will build another soon..

[megaladon6]

the sad thing is that they didn't even try to claim that they stole the designs. instead the cars are "confusingly similar". so, if i mistake a new challenger for a new camaro, can dodge sue GM under the same guidelines?

[Nine Ball]

I used to respect Shelby, but in the last decade or so I've only viewed him as a greedy old fart. He won't be missed by me when he goes.

[WS6]

I think very ambiguous and vague lawsuits are hurting way more than just the FFR type companies. The wording is pure crap. The lawsuit should be thrown out based on this alone. Confusingly similar? By whose standard?

[65MALI]

I used to respect Shelby, but in the last decade or so I've only viewed him as a greedy old fart. He won't be missed by me when he goes.

Yeah I kinda feel the same, The "WEST COAST CUSTOMS/SHELBY, MUSTANG" was the icing on the cake, whats next a UNIQUE AUTO / SHELBY collaboration?:)

[Blown353]

My buddy in the SAAC Shelby Club has a whole mess of bumper stickers that say "Honk if you're being sued by Carrol." They ran the bumper stickers a little while back when Carrol sued them to try and acquire & take over the Shelby Registry the SAAC maintains.

If Carrol gets any more organ transplants, doesn't that mean he's a replica himself-- and as such shouldn't he sue himself?

[bbcc]

the sad thing is that they didn't even try to claim that they stole the designs. instead the cars are "confusingly similar". ....


It was preached to us in one of my desgin classes that a design is not copied if 10% of it differs from a competing design. So basicly, take someones product, change 10% of it and your golden. Morals aside, this is what I understand the law to be

[Steve1968LS2]

It's a shame and a sad irony that his legacy will be tarnished by his own misguided efforts to preserve it.

Money grab...

I just don't have the respect for him that I once did.. First the shady deal with the "found frames with magical VIN numbers" and now he's sue happy.

[CptKlutz]

If Carrol gets any more organ transplants, doesn't that mean he's a replica himself-- and as such shouldn't he sue himself?

:lmao::1st: Priceless...

Wonder if it's Shelby himself or oversmart corporate lawyers wanting to make a buck and look important?
The stupidity runs in the Ford family it seems. Remember Ford sending out letters to make every shop stop using the 'Mustang' moniker because it was their trademark? And going after fan sites using their trademarks as well? Holy cr*p, how stupid can you be and still escape from the zoo...
http://voltagecreative.com/blog/2008/12/pr-disaster-ford-suing-people-who-about-ford-cars/
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/MONEY/605100302&SearchID=73244336366752

[Roadrage David]

Funny thing is when he whent to AC they build him ore gave them the COBRA. named AC Cobra. he re badged them in the usa AC found out and started to put there logo on the brake padels ecetera . if you check out the ""origenal"" Shelby cobra,s they carry those pedals.
the car NEVER was a shelby cobra but a AC cobra in the first place. all the cars that made him win where made in the UK anyway..

[Charley Lillard]

My buddy in the SAAC Shelby Club has a whole mess of bumper stickers that say "Honk if you're being sued by Carrol." They ran the bumper stickers a little while back when Carrol sued them to try and acquire & take over the Shelby Registry the SAAC maintains.

If Carrol gets any more organ transplants, doesn't that mean he's a replica himself-- and as such shouldn't he sue himself?


I have that bumper sticker on the back of my 66 GT350 race car.

[Munster]

I didn't know all this was going on. Sheds light on some food for thought.

Hey Charley, If your superstitous I'd make another post quick.....

Charley Lillard
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 666
Trader Rating: (1)

[StRacerDuke]

2001 Join date FTW!

Sorry, off topic.

[BLT2DRIVE]

Take a Ferrari GTO, Iso AC3, Shelby Daytona coupe. Set them all side by side. Pretty much the era specific look. Ditto a Champ Car, Indy Car, Formula 3, F1 cars, look of the era, all pretty similar. 30's Ford, Plymouth, or Chevrolet, styling pretty similar. Yah, we can tell "all" these apart, but I can buy a 36 Ford coupe or cabriolet. Or a chopped, channeled, and sectioned one. Yeah, maybe it looks like the one I remember as a kid from around the corner, but the guy from around the corner is not suing the guy for building on his memories. Some of these Daytona style coupes are similar at a glance but it's just simularities when actually set side by side. Does any one really thing that's a 17 million dollar hand made one-off at the cruise night? Or a new kit made by the "originater" continuation? The names and use I could see, but the silhoette? Place the 250 GTO and daytona silhouettes on top of each other. Simularities of an era... Look at the Le Mans prototypes today, pretty simular for this era too...

[NOPANTS-68]

posted on FFCobra a little while ago:

This past December, Factory Five was served with a lawsuit from Carroll Shelby. The claims in the suit focus primarily over the shape or the “trade-dress” of the Type 65 Coupe. We were a bit amazed at this lawsuit as Shelby agreed to a court order that specifically precluded him from doing just this. Indeed. in February, 2001, FFR and Shelby mutually agreed to the entry of a Consent Judgment (“Order”) in the litigation brought by Shelby in the United States District Court, District of Massachusetts whereby, among other things, Factory Five agreed not to use the word “Cobra” to describe our products. Factory Five agreed to this since it was not using these marks anyway and, for obvious reasons, it wanted to avoid any association whatsoever with Shelby. In return, Shelby agreed to forever dismiss any claims relative to the shape of the Factory Five Roadster and Type 65 Coupe and other designs. The exact words of the 2001 Order are as follows…

”… Shelby dismisses with prejudice all claims that have been asserted or could have been asserted relative to the trade dress or designs of FFR’s kits, including but not limited to the kits known as the 427 Roadster and the Type 65 Coupe…”

Further, if Shelby believed that FFR was in violation of any part of the Order; for instance one of our guys inadvertently wrote an advertisement using the word COBRA, the Order required Shelby to give FFR 30 days notice to remedy any purported breach. In sum, pursuant to the Order, Shelby is precluded from filing a lawsuit without the agreed to notice and opportunity to cure. FFR required that this language be included in the Order because we knew Shelby was litigious to the extreme and we also knew that the entire planet, all the customers, and the industry in general, refers to these cars as “Cobras” in a purely generic sense and the risk that someone might make a mistake was real. To this day, I believe that FFR is among the one or two companies/entities/people that consistently identifies our products as our own rather than “Cobras”.

Even worse, not only did Shelby violate the Order in filing the lawsuit, he sued over the shape of a car that had already been litigated and dismissed eight years ago. What do we do now? We have filed a motion seeking to have the California Court to change the venue to Federal Court in Massachusetts which endorsed and entered the Order in 2001. If that is allowed, we will then seek to have the lawsuit dismissed as well as damages and/or sanctions for malicious prosecution and contempt of court.

All this is just a big waste of time and money for FFR. The fact that the website FFCOBRA was named along with the good guys at LK Motorsports is, in my opinion, harassment. FFR removed our link to FFCobra, not because it was a violation of the Order or because we had to, but instead to mitigate the litigation costs, particularly where Shelby is claiming that FFCOBRA is an agent of FFR. Nothing could be further from the truth. FFR is just fine financially and is not asking any customers for legal defense money. The issues involving the claims against FFCobra and LK Motorsports are another thing. Bill runs FFCobra and since we have cancelled our ads with them, I think customers banding together to defend their own rights is a good thing.

Some other things to consider. We hear that Shelby is suing Kirkham for counterfeiting after using them as a supplier for years (you didn’t think that Shelby built those aluminum body cars did you?). Shelby makes claims against a website that is customer based and doesn’t sell or make “Cobras”. Why didn’t he sue Club Cobra or any of the myriad of websites that use the word “Cobra”. Why is Shelby suing us? Who knows. Some people familiar with this suit believe that Shelby saw our Land Speed Record Coupe across from his booth at the November SEMA show and got mad, simple as that. The original Coupe went 186 mph or so, yet FFR’s went 216 mph and next year the crew at SoFast Racing say that 250-275 mph is not out of the question at Bonneville. Anyone from Shelby is welcome to join us on the salt or on any track in the country where we prefer to settle our differences rather than in court.

Unfortunately, the memory of what Shelby did in the 60’s is rapidly being replaced with the image of the most litigious guy in the auto industry. Even Car & Driver Magazine recently type-cast as Carroll as “$helby” (notice the dollar sign) in an article that sadly chronicled his never-ending legal nonsense. Some familiar?
In the end, FFR knows that it has done the right thing and fully believes that it will prevail in this most frivolous action. Stay tuned. *Sigh*

David Smith
President

[Charley Lillard]

Munster...My phone # starts with 666 also. I was thinking of another bumper sticker that says "Is he dead yet"

[coolwelder62]

As greedy as the old bas*** is its a wonder he not suing anybody that ever sold a shelby in the past in and made a buck. He should be standing at the pay window at B-J getting his cut on all shelbys sold in the past and last week. You know its funny Ford had to bring in Bud Moore to win Trans am races because the old fart couldnt get in done againth Penske/Donahue. And Holman/Moody won more races and did more in a Ford than Shelby ever did. I will step down off the soap box now.

[Steve1968LS2]

So the short version is that Shelby is a jerkwad these days?

I heard was suing hte zoo for calling some of their snakes Cobras.. they must now be labeled as Coziers.

[skeeters65]

So the short version is that Shelby is a jerkwad these days?

I heard was suing hte zoo for calling some of their snakes Cobras.. they must now be labeled as Coziers.


Steve is that a JOKE or TRUTH???

[SimplyKC]

Funny thing is when he whent to AC they build him ore gave them the COBRA. named AC Cobra. he re badged them in the usa AC found out and started to put there logo on the brake padels ecetera . if you check out the ""origenal"" Shelby cobra,s they carry those pedals.
the car NEVER was a shelby cobra but a AC cobra in the first place. all the cars that made him win where made in the UK anyway..

You are mistaken. Shelby created the Cobra from the 4-cylinder AC Bristol.

[6'9"Witha69]

I heard was suing hte zoo for calling some of their snakes Cobras.. they must now be labeled as Coziers.
BREAKING NEWS: The snakes are now counter suing for defamation!

[Roadrage David]

You are mistaken. Shelby created the Cobra from the 4-cylinder AC Bristol.

eeeuuhhh go to the shelby museum chek his origenal cars and look what emblem is on there pedals!!!!. as said befor the where re badged and the replaced bij the shelby badges ON the car however they didnt changed the pedal badges... The cobra history in EUROPE is diferend then what hase been ""fed"" to you buy good old Carroll!!!!!. from the start the car was know as the AC Cobra, hell Carrols first and victory lane cars where build in the UK by AC.......
CHEK THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra


ore read this
History and development

AC Shelby CobraLike many British specialist manufacturers, AC Cars had been using the smooth, refined Bristol straight-6 engine in its small-volume production, including its AC Ace 2-seater roadster. The engine was a pre-World War II design of BMW which by the 60s the company knew was considered dated. Bristol decided in 1961 to cease production of its engine and instead to use Chrysler 313cid (5.1 L) V8 engines. Although untrue, it is commonly believed that AC was left without a future source of power and that American ex-racing driver Carroll Shelby saved the company from bankruptcy. AC started using the 2.6 litre Ford Zephyr in all of its cars. In September 1961, Shelby airmailed AC a letter asking them if they would build him a car modified to accept a V8 engine. Shelby had previous experience with Anglo-American hybrids, having raced an Allard. He first went to Chevrolet to see if they would provide him with engines, but not wanting to add competition to the Corvette they said no. Ford however, wanted a car that could compete with the Corvette and they happened to have a brand new thin wall small block engine which could be used in this endeavor.

AC agreed, provided a suitable engine could be found. It was, in the form of, Ford's 260 in³ HiPo (4.2 L) engine - a new lightweight, thin-wall cast small-block V8 tuned for high performance. In January 1962 mechanics at AC Cars in Thames Ditton, Surrey fitted the prototype chassis CSX0001 with a 221ci Ford V8. After testing and modification, the engine and transmission was taken out and the chassis was air freighted to Caroll Shelby in Los Angeles on 2 February 1962.[1] Here it was fitted with an engine and transmission in less than eight hours and taken out on test.

Production proved to be easy, since AC had already made most of the modifications needed for the small block V8 when they installed the 2.6 litre Ford Zephyr engine, including the extensive rework of the AC Ace's front end. The most important modification was the fitting of a stronger rear differential to handle the power of the Ford V8. A Salisbury 4HU unit with in-board disk brakes to reduce unsprung weight was chosen instead of the old ENV unit. It was the same unit used on the Jaguar E-Type. On the production version, the inboard brakes were moved outboard to reduce cost. The only modification of the front end of the first Cobra from that of the AC Ace 2.6 was the mounting of the steering box, which had to be moved outward to clear the wider V8 motor.


BadgeThe first 75 Cobra Mark I (including the prototype) were fitted with the 260 engine (4.2 L). The remaining 51 Mark I model were fitted with a larger version of the Windsor Ford engine, the 289 in³ (4.7 L) V8. Toward the end of 1962, Alan Turner who was the chief engineer at AC completed a major design change of the car's front end and was able to fit it with Rack and pinion steering while still using transverse leaf springs suspension. The new car went into production in early 1963 and it became known as the Mark II. The steering rack was borrowed from the MGB while the new steering column came from the VW Beetle. About 528 Mark II Cobras were produced to the summer of 1965 (the last US bound Mark II was produced in November 1964).

By 1963 the leaf spring Cobra was losing its supremacy in racing, Shelby tried fitting a big Ford FE engine of 390 in³. Ken Miles drove and raced the FE powered Mark II car and said that the car was virtually undrivable, naming it 'The Turd'. A new chassis was developed and designated the Mark III.


Shelby AC CobraThe new car was designed in cooperation with Ford in Detroit. A whole new chassis was built which featured 4" main chassis tubes (instead of 3") and coil spring suspension all around. The new car also had wide fenders and a larger radiator opening. It was powered by the famed "side oiler" Ford 427 engine (7.0 L) developing 425 bhp (317 kW) and attaining a top speed of 163 mph (262 km/h) in the standard model and 485 bhp (362 kW) with a top speed of 180 mph (290 km/h) in the competition model. The production of the Cobra Mark III began on 1 January 1965, two prototypes had been sent to the United States in October of 1964. Cars were sent to the US as unpainted rolling chassis, and they would be finished in Shelby's workshop. Although an impressive automobile, the car was a financial failure and did not sell well. In fact to save cost, most AC Cobra 427's were actually fitted with Ford's 428 in³ (7.0 L) engine, a long stroke, smaller bore, lower cost engine, intended for road use rather than racing. It seems that a total of 300 Mark III cars were sent to Shelby in the USA during the years 1965 and 1966, including the competition version. 27 small block narrow fender version which were referred to as the AC 289 were sold in Europe. Unfortunately, The MK III missed homologation for the 1965 racing season and was not raced by the Shelby team. However, it was raced successfully by many privaters and went on to win races all the way into the 70's. Interestingly, 31 unsold competition cars were detuned and made road worthy and called S/C for semi-competition. Today, these are the rarest and the most valuable models and can sell for in excess of 1.5 million dollars.

AC Cobras had an extensive racing career. Shelby wanted it to be a "Corvette-Beater" and at nearly 500 lb (227 kg) less than the Chevrolet Corvette, the lightweight car did just that. The Cobra was perhaps too successful as a performance car and reputedly contributed to the implementation of national speed limits in the United Kingdom. An AC Cobra Coupe was calculated to have done 185 mph (298 km/h) on the M1 motorway in 1964, driven by Jack Sears and Peter Bolton during shakedown tests prior to that year's Le Mans 24h race.[2] However, government officials have cited the increasing accident death rate in the early 1960s as the principal motivation, the exploits of the AC Cars team just highlighting the potential risk.

Although extremely successful in racing, The AC Cobra was a financial failure, which led Ford and Carroll Shelby to discontinue importing cars from England in 1967. AC Cars kept producing the coil spring AC Roadster with narrow fenders, a small block Ford 289 and called the car the AC 289, it was built and sold in Europe until late 1969. This car with modifications would appear again in 1982 as the Autokraft MkIV, basically an AC MkIII car with a 5.0L Ford V8 and Borg Warner T5 Transmission. AC also produced the AC Frua until 1973. The AC Frua was built on a stretched Cobra 427 MK III coil spring chassis using a very angular handsome steel body designed and built by Pietro Frua. With the demise of the Frua, AC went on building lesser cars and eventually fell into bankruptcy in the late 1970s'. The company's tooling and eventually the right to use the name, were licensed by Autocraft, a Cobra parts reseller and replica car manufacturer owned by Brian A. Angliss. Autocraft was manufacturing an AC 289 continuation car called the Mark IV. Shortly thereafter, Carroll Shelby filed suit against AC Cars and Brian A. Angliss, in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles. The ensuing settlement resulted in Shelby and AC Cars/Angliss releasing a joint press release whereby AC/Angliss acknowledged that Carroll Shelby was (and is) the manufacturer of record of all the 1960s AC Cobra automobiles in the United States and that Shelby himself is the sole person allowed to call his car a Cobra. Despite this there is no doubt that every Cobra made in the '60s was manufactured by AC Cars in England, shipped to Shelby for completion. Carroll Shelby's company Shelby Automobiles, Inc. continues to manufacture the Shelby Cobra FIA 289 and 427 S/C vehicles in various forms at its facility in Las Vegas, Nevada. These cars retain the general style and appearance of their original 1960s ancestors, but are fitted with modern amenities. In 2006 Carol Shelby's own Shelby Cobra sold at an auction in Arizona for £2.8million.[3] shelby never ever build the cobra,s that famed him end of the history lesson!!!!


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