Ultimate Street Car Invitational, HR Mag March 09

[John McIntire]

Congrats Steve! :1st: Just got the mag, gave you a pretty good write up! Well, as good as they could I guess:)
They brought up a good point, you've never had Penny down the 1320. Any plans to do so, you know, just for fun? I think it be interesting to see what she runs.
Anyway, Congrats!

PS. How did you mount those mesh screens on the front lower valence?

[Steve1968LS2]

It's "on my list"... I'm sure traction would be the issue, maybe I should get a set of drag tires?

Besides all the factual errors in thier story it was pretty good.

I had to laugh at the "It pains us to report this, but..." part.

Also, the deal said that winner gets "a feature in HR magazine"

I asked when my feature would be and got a resounding.. NO.. lol

[Steve1968LS2]

PS. How did you mount those mesh screens on the front lower valence?

The mesh is held in by four screws on the top and the bottom isn't attached. It stays in place due to spring tension. I will try to dig up a picture.

[TonyL]

Yeah, I got a kick out of the "it pains us to report, but a PHR project car won.." bit also.. LOL.

I was surprised at the amount of cars that got no love or mention at all. Like Fuel and others.

[Damn True]

When did Penny become a "PHR project car"?

[Steve1968LS2]

Yeah, I got a kick out of the "it pains us to report, but a PHR project car won.." bit also.. LOL.

I was surprised at the amount of cars that got no love or mention at all. Like Fuel and others.

Yea, there were a ton of cars they didn't talk about.. actually it didn't give a very good "feel" for the event.

My biggest complaint (as a reader) was that there wasn't a clear results box with the top times. How could they not list the times?

We have a large (11 page) story coming out in Camaro Performers about the event next month. I made sure to give love to all the Camaro's and list all the top times.

[Steve1968LS2]

When did Penny become a "PHR project car"?

Well, that's where I worked when I did some of the build. It never was a traditional "project car" were we build it from the ground up but there were quite a few stories done in PHR. The Fairlane was a PHR Project Car.. Penny is just a car we did some stories on. Not many since Hunkins didn't like the car very much.

It's a project car wherever I happen to work, right now that happens to be CP.

[bret]

I haven't seen it yet...did they include the part where all my **** fell apart?

[Steve1968LS2]

I haven't seen it yet...did they include the part where all my **** fell apart?


"Air Ride's Bret Voelkel brought his company's test car, the Velocity '68 Camaro. The F-body runs a Wourld Products Warhawk 427ci LS motor and a Bowler 4L65E with paddle shifters. Since he was a sponsor, Bret couldn't compete, but he nevertheless put the car on the track and had some fun with it. It did OK but didn't set the world on fire, thanks to losing Third and Fourth gears in the transmission"

Did they even take notes at the event??? You were competing just like DSE, the Optima car and everyone else. :lmao:

[monza]

Yeah, I got a kick out of the "it pains us to report, but a PHR project car won.." bit also.. LOL.

I was surprised at the amount of cars that got no love or mention at all. Like Fuel and others.

Have not seen it yet but team Fuel was cranky and tired so maybe I snapped at the wrong guy... lol

[Steve1968LS2]

Have not seen it yet but team Fuel was cranky and tired so maybe I snapped at the wrong guy... lol

You weren't the only one not mentioned, so I don't think it was you.

No mention of Big Red.. or that poor guy who blew he radiator. No mention of Rick Love or his second gen but the Freeling Camaro got two pages.

But hooked ya up in my story :)

[James OLC]

I don't know what's better - not setting "the world on fire" like Bret or getting "killed"... lol

Like Dave I haven't seen the issue yet but I look forward to seeing next month's Camaro Performers (I think).

[Steve1968LS2]

I don't know what's better - not setting "the world on fire" like Bret or getting "killed"... lol

Like Dave I haven't seen the issue yet but I look forward to seeing next month's Camaro Performers (I think).


Heck, your in this months issue too...


Don't worry, I didn't toss you under the proverbial bus.. lol

[TonyL]

Yea, there were a ton of cars they didn't talk about.. actually it didn't give a very good "feel" for the event.

My biggest complaint (as a reader) was that there wasn't a clear results box with the top times. How could they not list the times?

Because they only care about pretty cars and not real data?

Hence the Greening car getting two pages that could have gone to coverage?

at least it wasnt 2/3s images of contestants wives and girlfriends..

=P

/I keed.

[Boyd]

I didn't get a good vibe from the Hot Rod story either. But I do have a question.

While I wasn't there, it seemed like there were quite a few "untested" cars at the event. Why would anyone bring an untested car to the "Ultimate Street Car Challenge"? Emphasis on the "Ultimate." I don't see any NASCAR teams bringing a bunch of untested cars to Daytona every year. Seems to me that this only fueled Hot Rod's pre-concieved notion about high-dollar pro-touring builds. The previous months story on the uber-mustang didn't help either.

[bret]

"Air Ride's Bret Voelkel brought his company's test car, the Velocity '68 Camaro. The F-body runs a Wourld Products Warhawk 427ci LS motor and a Bowler 4L65E with paddle shifters. Since he was a sponsor, Bret couldn't compete, but he nevertheless put the car on the track and had some fun with it. It did OK but didn't set the world on fire, thanks to losing Third and Fourth gears in the transmission"


Did they even take notes at the event??? You were competing just like DSE, the Optima car and everyone else. :lmao:

Its always tough to tell the whole story in the limited space of a magazine article, but I can elaborate a bit here.
Although Air Ride was a sponsor, I was competing. This was just a technical reporting error...unfortunately I was never a serious factor in any portion of the competition.
In my attempt to be the hero and mug for the camera, I did a giant burnout from the pits...until the car hooked up and rolled the sprag over in the drum in the trans. It wasn't Bowler's fault, it was mine. He told me [again, several times] that that trans would take 550hp. I put it behind an engine that made 630hp. The first time it got seriously hooked up, I found out he knows what he is talking about! Therefore I spent the rest of the day making laps at 85mph in 2nd gear on the rev limiter at 6500rpm. Mark Bowler was there and offered [several times] to take the trans out and attempt to fix it right there in the pits. I was just way too lazy to do that. I figured that we still had 1st and 2nd so we could do the autocross ok and save some face there.
While we were wringing our hands over the trans I missed the walk through for the autocross. Since I missed the walkthrough and drivers meeting I missed the fact that there was a tricky little routing at the end of the autocross that I dutifully missed...all three runs. Again...my bad. In Indiana we call that a "cluster****" .
We celebrated our "success" in traditional Indiana fashion with several dozen cocktails that night.

I think the reason you saw so many "unprepared" cars there was because this was an invitation event. The invitations were extended to new cars that, for the most part, were appearing at SEMA. If you have ever tried to get a car finished in time for the SEMA show you can sympathize with this position. There were several that didn't make it at all, and a few that made SEMA but didn't make it to the track. You'll have that.
I thought the quality and variety of cars AND people was exceptional. I can't WAIT to do it again [hopefully with better success]this coming year!

BTW..."not setting the world on fire" was likely better than setting it on fire like the first time that Kinnan reported on one of my cars in '97. :) You had to be there.

[James OLC]

I didn't get a good vibe from the Hot Rod story either. But I do have a question.

While I wasn't there, it seemed like there were quite a few "untested" cars at the event. Why would anyone bring an untested car to the "Ultimate Street Car Challenge"? Emphasis on the "Ultimate." I don't see any NASCAR teams bringing a bunch of untested cars to Daytona every year. Seems to me that this only fueled Hot Rod's pre-concieved notion about high-dollar pro-touring builds. The previous months story on the uber-mustang didn't help either.

There may have been several completely untested cars at the event (myself included) but they were in the minority and at the end of the day, it was the cars who had miles (road and track) on them that really did dominate the event. There were, however, several exceptional cars with lots of miles on them (Bret and FUeL for instance) that unfortunately had issues and in Dave's (Monza's) case received very little mention in this particular article. Perception I guess.

Why come to an event like this "untested"? I can only speak for myself here but my focus was really on the SEMA show and taking care of the people/companies who had helped me put the car together. I was honored to have been invited by Optima to attend the Invitational and did everything that I could to make both events. From the limited time that I did have on the car (I think I put more miles on it in Vegas than I did before hauling it down) I knew that I had a transmission issue but decided that I would run it anyways; I came on a trailer and I was going to leave on a trailer... fortunately I did in one piece.

I think that people have to keep in mind that Pro-Touring is still (relatively) in it's infancy - especially when it comes to tracking our cars. If you look back to the first years of the Hot Rod Fastest Street Car Shootout's it was no different. They used to be like the Thunderdome - two went in, one came out - every pass had a winner and the guy who blew up. They have come a long way since then; we will too. I think that what you will see for the Second Annual event will be much different from what you saw in 2008, now that everybody knows what the event is like and what it will take to be competitive.

[Larry Callahan]

I'm ready for next year!

https://www.pro-touring.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=20339

[Bill Howell]

I read the article today and guess I came away with a different take than some of you did. I thought it was pretty good coverage and at least Hot Rod did a story on the event. Who won and who broke, etc is only important the the few of us that know the players. As a regular reader of Hot Rod, the great news is they covered an event that we all have interest in. As the event grows the coverage will improve, but so will the cars.

Between this event, RTTHs and now this year the new Motor State Challenge at Gingerman, we are really starting to make a mark on the hobby. We can not expect to be giants the first year or two, but hey it will be fun to look back in about 5 years and say I remember when......

Don't look at this as a negative, it isn't.

Go Optima, go Hotrod and GO PROTOURING!

For the rest of you, quit your bitching, finish your cars and attend an event this year, there will be magazine coverage at all of them and who knows, you may just get noticed if you will just attend....:smoke:

[mazspeed]

It didn't seem to me like the hot rod article was complementry to Steve or the entire event. It seems if another magazine should be doing this event with more enthusiasm. I do want to ask Steve why you were able to use those tires? Where you on 100 tw tires? I thought the event was limited to 180 tw? I may be wrong, not sure. :)

[Steve1968LS2]

It didn't seem to me like the hot rod article was complementry to Steve or the entire event. It seems if another magazine should be doing this event with more enthusiasm. I do want to ask Steve why you were able to use those tires? Where you on 100 tw tires? I thought the event was limited to 180 tw? I may be wrong, not sure. :)


No, Hot Rod was wrong in thier story.. the rules stated that 100 or higher treadwear tires could be ran.

Like I said, they need to take notes. lol

I sort of felt bad that Mark Frazier didn't even get mentioned for driving the blue '69 'Vette which came in second place. I'm thrilled the Hot Rod sponsored and in reality made this event possible. I just get frustrated with details are omitted or wrong (especially when I do it, which I do).

[mazspeed]

No, Hot Rod was wrong in thier story.. the rules stated that 100 or higher treadwear tires could be ran.

Like I said, they need to take notes. lol

I sort of felt bad that Mark Frazier didn't even get mentioned for driving the blue '69 'Vette which came in second place. I'm thrilled the Hot Rod sponsored and in reality made this event possible. I just get frustrated with details are omitted or wrong (especially when I do it, which I do).

No worries, yeah I was curious because I thought it was 180 tw then they lowered it to 100 or something like that. Yeah details on events like this are important, lol. Maybe next year they will get it right. BTW, can you find out who might have video on Frazer’s run? He would like to get a copy. If it costs money, let me know.

Thanks For the clarification Steve.

[wicked68]

I'm ready for next year!

https://www.pro-touring.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=20339
how does one get invited?? :D

[kp.touring]

Well I guess it is time to chime in. First we are very happy with the article,yea they didn't put Mark's name in as the driver for the Vette but they did get Scott's name, the owner, and the shop name and city in there, so good PR for use.
Just so you guys know this was Mark's first time driving on road course and it has been over 20 years from the last time he auto-crossed. Also we had decided before the event because of having a rookie driver and mainly problems with the wide band O2 to detune the car some so we wouldn't kill the engine and/or have something stupit happen running the Michelins over the Hoosiers. Having driven the car in it's "good" tune the thing is a on/off switch and will fry the 345/30/19 R6's in a flash!

Lets also just say to that being in Hot Rod is the dream of just about every motor head in North America and yes I wish there was more coverage but the editors have to appeal to large cross section and also writen to not exclude someone just getting into cars. So that means us die hard old guy's (me) are left wanting more.

Guys like James and Jessie really desevre big ad-a-boys for bringing thier way fresh and untested cars and Kevin with the 68 GT350 would have had all our lunches if his back-up engine hadn't had oilling problems.

Regarding an invite to next year there is a e-mail address in the article. And yes we are hoping to get to play this year again with one of the cars we are building now and may be our ringer driver will be able to come this year, he and his wife became new parents of twin girls 3 weeks before the event or may be I'll get to drive!

In closing I'm happy that "team " Bad Penny won!!! way to go! I also feel that this was more than competing, everyone there was willing to help anyone who had problems with thier cars so that everyone could play.

Kevin
Campbell Auto Restorations

[mazspeed]

I would love to run it if I had enough tire. :(

[kp.touring]

Mike, You've got enough tire and if they keep the tread wear at 100 Toyo/Nitto have tires in the sizes you car run and if they put it back to 180 run the Nitto's you have.

Kevin

[mazspeed]

Mike, You've got enough tire and if they keep the tread wear at 100 Toyo/Nitto have tires in the sizes you car run and if they put it back to 180 run the Nitto's you have.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin, yeah the Nitto Invo's I have are awful tires. The worst I have ever used for any kind of aggressive driving. If I do go next year, you guys will have to tune the car for such an event. Autocrossing is easy, it's the road course that would worry me. Ill run the car at Duel at Deanza this year to see what needs to be done for auto crossing.

[JEFFTATE]

Congrats Steve!.....
and Mary Pozzi !
I enjoyed the article.
HotRod does always have a slant against pro-touring cars though.
But , it is great to see them concede victory to Steve / PHR / Bad Penny.

It's great to see HotRod cover an event like this too.
Usually they only stick to Dragracing and Nostalgia events.
Any coverage of a street car event like this is great to promote the types of events we are attending.
So....

Thanks HotRod !

[mpozzi]

Thanks Kevin, yeah the Nitto Invo's I have are awful tires. The worst I have ever used for any kind of aggressive driving. If I do go next year, you guys will have to tune the car for such an event. Autocrossing is easy, it's the road course that would worry me. Ill run the car at Duel at Deanza this year to see what needs to be done for auto crossing.

The Duel at DeAnza course is quite tight and limits the driving line. If you're looking to get more autocross time, consider coming down to the UFO (United Five-Ten) events at Marina. The first event is this Sunday at the airport (weather looks good as of today) and the courses are longer and more respective of what you'd see elsewhere. You also get four runs.

Duel is very limited by the parking lot measurements and obstructions so they run the same course every year.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[Damn True]

Hmm, might have to mosey down to Marina this weekend.

[mpozzi]

Well I guess it is time to chime in. First we are very happy with the article,yea they didn't put Mark's name in as the driver for the Vette but they did get Scott's name, the owner, and the shop name and city in there, so good PR for use.
Just so you guys know this was Mark's first time driving on road course and it has been over 20 years from the last time he auto-crossed. Also we had decided before the event because of having a rookie driver and mainly problems with the wide band O2 to detune the car some so we wouldn't kill the engine and/or have something stupit happen running the Michelins over the Hoosiers. Having driven the car in it's "good" tune the thing is a on/off switch and will fry the 345/30/19 R6's in a flash!

Lets also just say to that being in Hot Rod is the dream of just about every motor head in North America and yes I wish there was more coverage but the editors have to appeal to large cross section and also writen to not exclude someone just getting into cars. So that means us die hard old guy's (me) are left wanting more.

Guys like James and Jessie really desevre big ad-a-boys for bringing thier way fresh and untested cars and Kevin with the 68 GT350 would have had all our lunches if his back-up engine hadn't had oilling problems.

Regarding an invite to next year there is a e-mail address in the article. And yes we are hoping to get to play this year again with one of the cars we are building now and may be our ringer driver will be able to come this year, he and his wife became new parents of twin girls 3 weeks before the event or may be I'll get to drive!

In closing I'm happy that "team " Bad Penny won!!! way to go! I also feel that this was more than competing, everyone there was willing to help anyone who had problems with thier cars so that everyone could play.

Kevin
Campbell Auto Restorations

Hey Kevin,

Bring something down to the UFO (United Five-Ten) autocrosses at Marina Airport if you want to have some autocross fun. First event is next Sunday and you'll get four runs. Plenty of time to tune in between if you need to. Weather should also be good (no rain).

Loved that Corvette and was itching to drive something on the track. Thanks for letting me test-sit in the car for a fit and too bad I wasn't able to actually see the track ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

Hmm, might have to mosey down to Marina this weekend.

Come on down as I think I run 3rd group (work 1st) if I run the Shelby. Not sure I have any good tires for the Camaro.

Marina Airport is off of Reservation Rd/Imjin Rd and you can't miss it. First car out is usually around 9am.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mazspeed]

The Duel at DeAnza course is quite tight and limits the driving line. If you're looking to get more autocross time, consider coming down to the UFO (United Five-Ten) events at Marina. The first event is this Sunday at the airport (weather looks good as of today) and the courses are longer and more respective of what you'd see elsewhere. You also get four runs.

Duel is very limited by the parking lot measurements and obstructions so they run the same course every year.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

Hi Mary. You and I have raced against each other many times before in the autocross, and I ran in solo2, and the pro 7 series. :)
I just have not done it for quite some time, about 15 years. Duel at Deanza was always fun, as well as the local NASA and SCCA events, but when I stopped, they were not as many events in my area here in San Jose anymore. In fact Duel at Deanza was suppose to stop the autocross years ago because of the new parking structure that was never put in that lot. I will be there this year, and maybe some point down the road Ill resume racing, but it's not in the cards full time now.
If you remember Jack Van Wettering. He's the one who taught me most of what I knew. Ill bring the camaro to the autocross in May.
I wanted to run last year, but I guess you can't stand in line anymore in the morning to pre register? How do you sign up? I checked online and could not find anything.

[monza]

My copy finally showed up, besides the errors and HR Mag seemingly expecting a lot of cars to fail I didn't really mind the article. I did lame so why should Fuel get a mention? IMO it would have been nice with a more detailed list of the cars and the builders. I wish G-Force Designs would have got a mention, as they went over the top in customer and support. But again we broke down, had issues and could not even finish.

Congratulations again Steve!

Larry thanks again for the invite... really was like living a PT dream!
(or was that a nightmare?)
Vegas+fast cars+great people= Good Times!

The Razor article in the same issue looks killer!

[Steve1968LS2]

I still think you should mention all the cars.. especially when there's so few. Hey at least you came out and ran hard.

[mazspeed]

Thanks for the info Mary. I know Dennis and hopefully will see you there.

Thanks again
Mike

[Flash68]

Very dissappointing article, esp after reading about everything on here and Lateral-G... You could just feel the disgust and lack of enthusiasm in their words in the article for Steve, and for the whole thing in general. Poor layout, and as Steve mentioned, no chart of all times or DNF? How simple is that?

Hot Rod article = Fail.

[HOOLIGAN]

Builders are always 'debuting' new builds at SEMA. So I think that this event being held in conjunction with (or right after) SEMA is the reason why there were several so called 'untested' cars there. I give props to all who flogged there rides for this event, even if they were'nt perfectly dialed in.

[tom_a]

The mag coverage does seem a little cold on the whole event. That said I am glad they help sponsor the thing. Let's hope they continue like they say as I think next year will be better. I think Steve and his team caught everybody sleeping. I was there and his car imo was the class of the field in performance terms and deserved to win. Not saying it was the best car, rather just performed the best on that day. I think we will see others show up with things sorted out better next time. I was surprised the CAR Vette finished second overall because it did not appear to break a sweat. I think if the driver had a little more seat time and a full blessing from the owner to punish it without worrying about wreaking it he might have made it alot closer. It looked like a very nice build.

[rat_rod_russell]

Steve
Will you have the times and more detailed information posted in your article? I'm with a lot of guys here. After seeing and reading everything for the guys that went I was disappointed in the lack of information about the cars other that there motors. Then they started asking drag racing questions, kind of weird at a road race. Did any of the editors ride along on the road course with some of the more competitive drivers?

With any luck I should be there next year with the new 55 Chevy. Don’t worry I'm not afraid to beat on mine either.

Miss. Pozzi, I'm trying to talk a friend of mine into coming and driving the autocross for me. You might know him Lance Adams, Drives a Blue Z06 corvette.

-Russell

[JEFFTATE]

the great news is they covered an event that we all have interest in. As the event grows the coverage will improve, but so will the cars.

Between this event, RTTHs and now this year the new Motor State Challenge at Gingerman, we are really starting to make a mark on the hobby. We can not expect to be giants the first year or two
Don't look at this as a negative, it isn't.

Go Optima, go Hotrod and GO PROTOURING!

For the rest of you, quit your bitching, finish your cars and attend an event this year, there will be magazine coverage at all of them and who knows, you may just get noticed if you will just attend....:smoke:


AMEN Bill !

[John McIntire]

Damn Bill! Right on! Couldn't have said it better! You're right!

[mazspeed]

The mag coverage does seem a little cold on the whole event. That said I am glad they help sponsor the thing. Let's hope they continue like they say as I think next year will be better. I think Steve and his team caught everybody sleeping. I was there and his car imo was the class of the field in performance terms and deserved to win. Not saying it was the best car, rather just performed the best on that day. I think we will see others show up with things sorted out better next time. I was surprised the CAR Vette finished second overall because it did not appear to break a sweat. I think if the driver had a little more seat time and a full blessing from the owner to punish it without worrying about wreaking it he might have made it alot closer. It looked like a very nice build.

They were also down about 150-200hp because of tuning issues that are now resolved, plus they were also on 220TW tires and Mark didn't have a ton of seat time in the car. The car is very very fast.

[Memphis]

Has the lap times for the cars been released anywhere? I am curious to see how the GT3's best time compared to Bad Pennys

[Damn True]

In the Camaro Performers article