Please allow me to rant, support your vendors!

[DriverzInc]

I've talked to many of the supporting vendors on this site over the past two years. Gotten to know them very well, and I'm even a dealer for many of them, and many of them are dealers for our wheels. In light of the recent events such as ATS closing doors, I just wanted to remind everyone to continue supporting the vendors that you depend on for good customer service and technical information day in and day out here on the forums.

I've recently been tracking some of the phone conversations and email conversations I've had recently with our customers and what I'm finding out is very discouraging. Over half of the people that I've worked with extensively over the past two months have taken our conversations regarding backspace and tire information and bought wheels from alternative sources. I'm having a huge problem swallowing this as I put in a ton of effort in figuring out what fit those customers specific applications, and when it came right down to it, they bought a similar product or in some cases the same product from another company, after using us for free tech help just to save a few small dollars. Now, I'm a fair guy, but if that situation continues to occur, Driverz, Inc., and other companies that go the extra mile, won't be around any longer to help you guys.

All I'm saying is, think about who you spend your money with. Choose who is administering the best customer service, and the best overall service to you, the end user, and continue to support those vendors with your loyal patronage. Otherwise, the guys like us who do really care about you, and your individual needs won't be around in the future to help you, or others like you.

Thanks again to all our loyal customers, whom over the years have continued to come back to us for your parts. It is because of you that we can continue to keep our doors open to help others. And it is because of you that our dream of doing what we love for a living is a reality.

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Couldnt agree more. I have experience this on many different levels, working in shops, and owning my own shop. We would have customers that would come in and get diagnoses and estimates, to only take the work elsewhere or do it themselves. As a business owner, I believe in customers service, but where do you draw the line? I had a few repeating offenders, I know this isnt right, but I would tell them it was way more severe which in the long run wasted their time like they did mine. They were taking elsewhere anyhow, so what did I have to lose? If my business was good enough for them to get the diagnoses and advice, shouldnt it have been good enough to do the work?

We have all been guilty of this from time to time. I dont think it is right to get the knowledge and advice of a business, then take your sale to the Wal Mart of the automotive world. Those guys do not have the experience or customer service. How many of you have got the phone calls from customers that have bought a product from the competitor, and needed advice on how to make it work? Most of us give the knowledge necessary without a lecture, hoping that they learned there lesson. But did they? Most of them I think are repeat offenders.

As a customer myself, I try to be loyal to the business that goes out of their way to understand what they are selling. Experience is everything and will save you alot of time in the long run. The time, effort and extra expense you save, would more than pay for the price difference.

And as a business owner that has a new product release, I can only hope for customer loyalty. I will do my part to give the best product and advice, only hope that the customer understands what it takes to do so. These are hard enough times right now, and hopefully we dont see anymore of the smaller products and service businesses fall. We all have to take care of each other. With out all the small business innovations, we will be stuck with a cookie cutter build. The Pro-touring market is getting larger, and there are more and more products out everyday. And the product choices we have today come off the back of the small business innovators. Please keep them in business, so we may stay ahead of the pack.

[brans72]

I must say the the vendors like Driverz inc,Prodigy,Sc&C have some of the best tech support out there and I recomm supporting them back! John knows his wheels and even sold his pride 55 chevy for the guys on the form to keep his company open, Frank and Lisa of Prodigy 8-10 when do these people have time to have a life outside of work (Frank has been doing cars least 15 yrs i bet if not longer!!!) Mark of SC&C is only one that anwsers his phone ever so means he is a small company busting a$* to help our cars perform like you want them to not to mention the guy will talk and listen to you! I have supported all 3 and others on here and hope you will to!! you get what you pay for and all the vendors have great products and support so lets not abuse what they give and go else where to save $30.00. I have delt with more then a few vendors and know some will match or get you dang close to help you out anyway possible. so lets help them back so we do not see more companies close there door like ATS. now vendors offer Tyler a job cause this guy seems to know his sh%t just my .02

[EFI69Cam]

Over half of the people that I've worked with extensively over the past two months have taken our conversations regarding backspace and tire information and bought wheels from alternative sources.



I hate people like that. Not much difference between that and stealing money out of your cash register.

[bret]

It is a fact that our real product is information. The pile of metal that we call an AirBar [or ShockWave, or TigerCage] is worth about $.30 per pound. Knowing where to put the holes, bends, and welds is what makes it valuable...AND knowing how to to use it once it is installed.
It is our responsibility to figure out a way to profitably package this combination of metal and knowledge. It is a never ending problem that I have no real solution for. Luckily for us, at least so far, our customers have been able to remain aware of the difference between price and value. God bless them.

[ProdigyCustoms]

First I agree 100% about supporting the vendors. And as the market tightens it can really be more painful. But I have a unique view on this because I love the technical work and have found a way to make it a huge part of our business plan.

Because of this open tech service, it is possible no vendor on these forums deals with more tech service that goes somewhere else to buy then I do because for 2 years it is clearly in my signature

FREE PRO TOURING TECH and PROJECT PLANNING for forum members
Weekdays 8AM TO 10PM EASTERN TIME
FOUR ZERO SEVEN 832 1752

So I get inundated with calls.

I make it clear our tech service for the membership and is free with no purchase necessary. I spend literally hours a day on the phone, my cell phone, doing tech and project planning. Helping develop build plans. Helping work inside of budgets and goals, making sure my guy is not over spending or under spend in one area of another, giving away every how to secret I have learned in 27 years of building cars, and advising what I KNOW from experience what works and what does'nt. A lot of these calls are often from other shops that are not Pro Touring specialist. We work with and supply hobbyist and shops all over the world. And let me tell you, a guy 10,000 miles away needs help to be sure he gets the right thing, cause returns from overseas are a bitch!

There are 4 kinds of tech calls I deal with on our open tech line

(1) Mister loyal buyer. This is the guy that is going to buy from us because he appreciates the service, technical advice, the experience, no hard sell approach, and he trust us. He has seen our builds, he has seen our post, and he knows we know our stuff. This guys knows he is getting a good deal and will almost always come back for more stuff. I like to look at this guy as the make a little on a lot of items, instead of make a killing on one sale.

(2) Mister shopper. This is the guy looking for free tech advice and he will go somewhere else to buy at a better negotiate price. this guy can be hard to spot, he may even promise to come back and buy, but he won't because he never intended to unless he could not beat anyone else up anymore. This guy will probably throw our name out and use it for leverage, a bargaining wedge to try to get a better price from a competitor. Or maybe he goes to a pajama retailer selling on E bay or a forum from his living room. But even this guy will often times refer others to us for technical advice and those become buyers because they are not the Mister Shopper type, but are the Mister Loyal Buyer type. So even Mister shopper, however sideways, can create a future sale.

(3) Mister straight up, I am buying somewhere else. This is the guy that has the balls up front to tell you he is buying somewhere else for whatever reason. This guy will tell you he just wants to get your advice because he wants to verify the first guy advise. I appreciate this guy that tells me up front he is buying someone else same or competing product but really only trust my recommendations (I have a couple of these in a PM box today). I even had a guy call me to spec out Vintage Air system and tell me he is buying from his buddy because he is helping the buddy do a buy in to become a dealer for vintage Air. Whatever. There buddy probably won't sell radiators, so maybe this guy buys a Prodigy Customs radiator down the road. Mister straight up may also tell a friend how accommodating we are and that friend just might be a Mister Loyal type.

(4) And then there is Mister Dreamer. This is the guy that either has no money, never will have any money, or may not even have a car. This guy is easy to spot early in the conversation, but I am never rude as you never know when this guy may inherit some money, have a friend with money and tell them how helpful we are, or our dreamer might hit the lottery. It is only 6 random numbers.

So while my closing ratio of sales to hours on the phone is horrendously low, we still do a huge amount of business. And at the end of the day I feel great because I know helped some people with their dream (and these toys really are dreams for most members), I know if they bought from me I gave them a good deal, and even though I did not get every sale, I still made good money and got to live a absolute dream.

I mean come on, I get to talk about cars. I get to build and own some of the most badd ass cars on the planet. I get to make dreams come true, and I make a living doing it.

[MuscleRodz]

I get this as well, but I get alot more of it with our shop work. Local guys know my work, like what I do, but don't like the up front "this is what it is going to cost" price. What usually happens is someone else will lowball me by quite a bit, and before the car gets out of their shop, they have paid as much or more than my original quote for an inferior job. I know of at least 6 cars this happened with last year.

I have on more than one occasion referred customers to other vendors if they carried something I didn't. I even buy from other board members if it is a product I don't carry. I will openly admit I have bought several parts from Frank at Prodigy, Marcus at SC&C, and a few others. Not only are they competitors, I also consider them friends. If we don't take care of each other, no one else will.

[TonyHuntimer]

Over half of the people that I've worked with extensively over the past two months have taken our conversations regarding backspace and tire information and bought wheels from alternative sources.


That's ridiculous. Those people are stealing your time. They might as well be stealing wheels right out of your showroom. Some people are real losers! Save a buck and screw the guy who was willing to help. :machine:

I felt like this working at Goodies Speed Shop. People would come in and talk with us for 2 hours and walk away with part numbers. Then we'd see the customer (I mean non-customer who stole our time) 2 weeks later with the parts on their car.

Finally my boss setup a policy of not giving people part numbers. Give them the service and start a file for them. Keep the info in a customer file until they come back to order. We got a few customers who were appalled that we would not give them part numbers to run home and buy from Summit or Jegs. I knew an old sales guy (that only worked for a little while 6 years ago) who would give useless part numbers to customers who complained if he said he wouldn't give them the part numbers. Customers actually called us from home and said the part numbers wouldn't work at Summit. Then he explained that the part number was a number used exclusively by our computer database.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[Munster]

I myself have used Franks advice more than a few times. Starting with his info on this forum that is also there for the taking. Then taken him up on his offer for person to person help. This started out as easy as b.s. figures for wheels. Which, even tho not much lead to my purchase of my rear, air bar and other suspension parts. I myself would feel bad to call some one, getting info, under the pretense of buying a product and then going somewhere else. But I know that there might be some who for whatever reason do not buy from the supplier of info and tech services, just do all you can to by from those who are willing to help and as Frank said be up front don't abuse it. I do beleive that all the advise and freindlyness of the venders here has gained you a lot of business and sales and hopefully out weighs some of the negatives. You are very much appreciated, Frank, Drivers Inc, Air Ride Tech, and all the other here who do go the extra mile.

[mikey]

I fully support the vendors I have bought from 2 on here and asked alot of questions of others Frank being one of them. While I may not have bought from most of those I have talked to. Also alot of times I will call to get some infoand prices so I will have a decent idea what I will need for a particular part. If your service is good I will be calling back to purchase the discussed items. I will pay more to a vendor that has good service than some one who won't return calls ect even if the price is lower. My build has been taking a long time to do you don't get far on cash from side jobs or selling scrap metal for toy funds. I don't buy in any particular order. For instance I was saving up for a set of forgelines and MCC listed a bunch of NOS stuff oops there went my wheels. Basically I jump at a good deal thats on my wish list even if I need someting else first. For example when the local Goodguys comes up if a vendor there has what I want in stock it's a no brainer no shipping fees.

[protour_chevelle]

I fully support our vendors aswell. Marcus has given me TONS of knowledge. I have also purchased his knowledge. Thats the least I could do. Now if our dollar was better I would be finishing off my order. My arms have been there for months LOL.

On another side note... Hydratech.... I called them up. Told Paul straight up that I was in highschool(at the time, had a year left), money was tight but I wanted hydraboost in my car. He walked me through everything I needed to do myself in order for it to work. What a class act! Now that I have an income. I WILL support him when I go hydraboost in something else.

I do and always will send people to our board vendors. I speak highly of the vendors. We have a kick ass group here and damnit I'm proud of it.

[jstix]

Agreed 100%

Called Driverz for advice - Bought from them.
Callled SC&C for advice - Bought from them.
Called Kore3 for advice - Bought from them.
Called ATS for advice - Bought from them.
Asked a member about battery hold downs - Bought from him.

Even called Prodigy by accident when I was trying to call Kore3 about a brake question and Frank still tried to answer my question.

I am all for saving a dollars or two, but I'm all for supporting our sponsors on the board. Without them, where are you going to get those parts you really want/need and get the assurance they are going to work for your application?

These guys and gals work hard to provide these services and do it because they love what they do, let's support them.

[JEFFTATE]

Well ,
It happens to me all the time at the Chevy Dealer I work at.
People get advice and part numbers from me concerning GM Performance Parts and buy them online from someone else.
Or they get GM factory part numbers and buy online from GM Parts Direct or straight from AC/Delco.

I just try to put a little bug in their ear that I can match those super cheap online prices.
And I hope they will by from me , the local guy , so our local economy doesn't take as much of a hit.

[Taylor1969]

I agree with everything said for sure. I try to support our vendors as much as possible. After speaking with Frank @ Prodigy, Tobin @ Kore3, and Tyler @ ATS how could you not buy from them. Frank has helped me countless times and because of it between my father and I, I think we have spent close to 4K with him over the past couple of years. I give all of their information out as much as possible and share my good experiences with anyone who listens.

The only thing that makes me choose them over Summit/Jegs/etc. is their service. I may not spend tons of money with them, but if I ever come into a ton of money I definitely will!

I recently found a great guy for shocks - If you call Race Car Dynamics (http://www.racecardynamics.com/classics/indexhr/indexhr.htm) you will speak to someone who really knows his stuff. Because of this, I will be buying shocks from him even if I have to pay a premium.

[1969CamaroRS]

Agree as well.

I have bought parts from Driverzinc, Prodigy, ATS, Musclerodz, Twist Machine. Try to support the vendors whenever possible, for all the valuable help and information they offer to the hobby.

Those that value customer service will keep coming back.

[ss dave]

I have acquired alot of help from Tyler and bought his headers for my build along with other parts.

I have tapped Frank for his expertise, haven't bought from him, but if he would make a roll-bar like Empty Nest for me I would, lol.

Talked at length to Mark at SC&C and recently made big purchases from him because the guy goes out of his way to talk with you. I fully agree with supporting helpful vendors. You may save a few pennies going somewhere else, but you get a partner in your project by buying from a helpful vendor. Sorry to see ATS go.

[FirstGenZq8]

marcus at sc&c talked my ear off one afternoon. awesome technical advice. spent a good chunk of change w/ him. great service should yield nothing else.

[Steve Chryssos]

The way I see it, humanity has been in a flat spin ever since Johnny Thunders was found dead--and that's a long time. But there are still plenty of good people out there. I deal with some of the best every day. It keeps me going.

Jon,
Your position is well justified. But you can't control other people's actions. Trying will only make you sick. In reality, people who take advantage of others' experience never get what they really want. The process gets botched up further down the line in the form of quality, delivery time, support or hidden fee problems. So the "Hit & Run" types, don't win in the long run. You can take a little comfort in that fact if it makes you feel better.

But don't. Instead, take a little ownership in the problem. That will make you feel better. Look at it this way: In most cases, these people are victims of misinformation and information overload. They're being conned and confused. They don't know that they're about to get jacked around.
Take a step back and figure out ways to use your phone time, website and other tools to better explain the post sale process. Clear up the misconception that the deal is done when the credit card number is handed over. You've been helpful with fitment and style selection. Now you can be helpful by providing information regarding CRITICAL post sale issues such as performance claims, terms, delivery time, hidden fees, backspace adjustments (exchanges), tech support. Maybe build a web page that clearly outlines all of this and add a READ THIS hot link to the end of each product page. I can see it now. Title it "STOP! Backspacing Isn't Everything"

Help people avoid "too good to be true" offers by educating them on the realities of the process. These days, terms is a huge issue. Some businesses take people's money up front and then deliver whenever. Why? Because the customer is bankrolling the inventory instead of the vendor maintaining adequate stock. That's cool if the vendor makes it clear up front. And it's standard issue for custom built products. But in many cases, the customer--enticed by an amazing offer--gets jacked around. Others get fooled by bogus performance claims. And, in either case, honest competing vendors get blocked from the sale.

It might make it a little easier to answer that next phone call if you view most (not all, just most) of these "hit and run" prospects as victims.

Especially since it's true. ...And it's gonna get worse. Education is the only antidote. Help people see thru the bull$#!t.
/Steevo

[TA219]

I have to say that I agree with the statements made thus far. I will admit that my project is on a budget and because of this, sometimes I have to make plans far before I can actually make purchases... so in some way, I guess I am "Mr. Dreamer", but I really believe that you need a solid plan before you start throwing a car together in order to avoid buying parts that will not work for you later down the road.

That being said, I have bugged Frank for advice before and I was thankful to get his honest and knowledgable answers. I remember that everytime I start to make a purchase and always check out GPsuperstore when I am shopping for an item. I was actually just talking to Lisa yesterday and need to call her back today.

Same goes for driverzinc, I talked to him via PM years ago and was upfront in saying that I wasnt ready to buy yet... now I am closer and I still remember those conversations.

I have also supported Detroit speed and Touring classics for the same reasons... great people, support, and service.

With all of that said, I am still a tiny fish in the pro-touring pond and I have to search for the best deals possible and I get turned off when I feel like I am getting the shaft. There is a supporting vendor who I have almost bought from on a few occasions but when I reach the checkout section in thier online store I am quoted an outrageous amount. The last item showed $140 for s&h on an item that shouldnt cost more than $25 to ship. In those cases I will look for a plan "b" in a hurry

[trapin]

I have to say that I agree with the statements made thus far. I will admit that my project is on a budget and because of this, sometimes I have to make plans far before I can actually make purchases... so in some way, I guess I am "Mr. Dreamer", but I really believe that you need a solid plan before you start throwing a car together in order to avoid buying parts that will not work for you later down the road.

That being said, I have bugged Frank for advice before and I was thankful to get his honest and knowledgable answers. I remember that everytime I start to make a purchase and always check out GPsuperstore when I am shopping for an item. I was actually just talking to Lisa yesterday and need to call her back today.

Same goes for driverzinc, I talked to him via PM years ago and was upfront in saying that I wasnt ready to buy yet... now I am closer and I still remember those conversations.

I have also supported Detroit speed and Touring classics for the same reasons... great people, support, and service.

With all of that said, I am still a tiny fish in the pro-touring pond and I have to search for the best deals possible and I get turned off when I feel like I am getting the shaft. There is a supporting vendor who I have almost bought from on a few occasions but when I reach the checkout section in thier online store I am quoted an outrageous amount. The last item showed $140 for s&h on an item that shouldnt cost more than $25 to ship. In those cases I will look for a plan "b" in a hurry
I'm kinda in the same boat as Wayne. I'm one of the little people on this website (well...little as in budget, not in physique) and I too need to investigate "the best option" for me when looking to make a major purchase. And yes, sometimes this involves bugging one of the vendors for answers to questions or a little tech. I may like what I hear, and I may not. If I don't like what I'm hearing then I scroll through the little list there on the right side of the screen for a better option. I believe I have that right and I'm sorry if a vendor felt I was wasting their time. But I still buy from our vendors here if there's one that makes a part I'm looking for. Touring Classics, Texas Speed, ATS, Detroit Speed, and BRP have all gotten my money in the past. And I believe me and Frank got a date with a set of Boze Forges here just as soon as the tax return check comes in the mail.

[camaro2nv]

You take the good and bad and do your best. I would say a good percent on these forum members buy from vendors. Heck just bought a motor from a sponsor on this site. Its because of Franks post Ill buy from him in the future. Like most I have a budget and Im trying to pay for my parts as I go. So I just cant place a big order at one time. I dont want to feel like I HAVE TO buy anything from someone just because they are a vendor. Theres a service that also comes a long with that. Some vendors dont fit that part in. When Frank has tried to help me in a post when I have a question its been followed up by other vendors saying not to buy from him. Ive checked them off my list of vendors to avoid. Im guessing that some of the info he gives makes some mad. But its that info that makes someone want to buy from a vendor. Maybe someday they'll get it.

[ProdigyCustoms]

When Frank has tried to help me in a post when I have a question its been followed up by other vendors saying not to buy from him. Ive checked them off my list of vendors to avoid. Im guessing that some of the info he gives makes some mad. But its that info that makes someone want to buy from a vendor. Maybe someday they'll get it.

That cracks me up. Does not surprise me one bit.

I fthink I found that post

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18371

And I found my reply after someone refered you to me.


Dude, my technical service is free for members. No purchase required. I don't care where you buying your wheels. Lots of people call me for their backspacing and then buy wheels somewhere else that we do not sell. I will help you with the backspacing. But I need more info.

Just call me.

It's what I do, and a appreciate your loyalty.

[PARKERRS]

I've purchased a good bit from Frank as well as Steevo, Fesler, Hydratech and Inland Empire along with CC5S which are all vendors here. I've had nothing from any of these people which was not top notch, both the qaulity of the parts as well as the service. Also DSE and AAW, it's hard to name them all, but I will say if they can't hook you up they will be glad to send you to one of the others which is just as good. Frank has done this for me in the past on my TKO, and if he can't beat them he will even flat out honestly tell you that Summit or Jeg's is the best bang for the buck on the item you want. That's customer service and I recieve that qaulity treatment from all of the above.

Tommy

[buickfunnycar.com]

This is a community guys,support those who support you or one day,they won't be there and you'll be dealing with someone from China or Mexico for your parts.

[chevelleshack]

Ok , here's my .02 cents on the subject . I am a no name jackass from Missouri . I had bought a few things from Frank but not enough for him to give me the time of day . I called him up to get some tech support on my brake system ( that i still have not ordered ) & i caught him on the ROAD to SEMA '07 . What did he do but take his time out to talk to me & even got a tech from wilwood on the phone for a conference call !! I don't think i would get that kind of service from a large economy wasteful size warehouse joint . I would imagine the answers to my questions would be is " would you like fries with that ? " I hope it is evident as to where i will get my brakes & many other parts for my projects as MONEY allows . Frank & Lisa have treated me with respect & an egerness to help that a no name jackass shouldn't get . I hope this is a good enough plug to buy from a vendor here .
Phil

[buickfunnycar.com]

What did he do but take his time out to talk to me & even got a tech from wilwood on the phone for a conference call !! I don't think i would get that kind of service from a large economy wasteful size warehouse joint...

The answer is NO you probably wouldn't get that kind of service from someone who wasn't as well-connected or cared about their customers as much as Frank does or the other fine sponsors that we have here.

Again...support those who support you.:twothumbs

[SatisTraction]

I just try to put a little bug in their ear that I can match those super cheap online prices.
And I hope they will by from me , the local guy , so our local economy doesn't take as much of a hit.

i may be the only one (i doubt it) but i NEVER buy at my chevy dealer. i do not feel that i should have to haggle for a lower price.

i support our venders (DSE, Frank, ATS, ricks, and several others) but i also shop for a decent price. I wish all businesses the best of luck but as times get harder i fear they will see much more bargin shopping. Especially the places that cater to the higher priced builds. Once their product become old news or a cheaper version is made the high $$$ parts get alot more shelf time.

Frank and DSE have helped me more then anyone and i will keep buying from them. they have earned my business by helping many folks out on here. it is great to see people like them.

[Damn True]

i support our venders (DSE, Frank, ATS, ricks, and several others) but i also shop for a decent price. I wish all businesses the best of luck but as times get harder i fear they will see much more bargin shopping. Especially the places that cater to the higher priced builds. Once their product become old news or a cheaper version is made by some unscrupulous ripoff artist the high $$$ parts get alot more shelf time and the people that did all the really hard and expensive product development get screwed.



Minor edit.

[dhutton]

"Once their product become old news or a cheaper version is made by some unscrupulous ripoff artist the high $$$ parts get alot more shelf time and the people that did all the really hard and expensive product development get screwed."

Unfortunately this is the way of the world. I develop cellular base stations for a major supplier. The day we are done developing a new product is the day we start cost reducing and enhancing (in fact we often start before we are done) it because the next day the offshore competition is copying it and selling it cheaper. This is a never ending process in product development and manufacturing. If you don't drive down the cost of your products through design improvements and/or more cost effective manufacturing and materials procurement the competition will eat you alive. You simply cannot design a product and sit back and expect to enjoy the fruits of your labor, no matter how hard you worked or how innovative the product is. Is it fair? Probably not but this cycle is what drives innovation and creativity.

Just my two cents worth...

[parsonsj]

The only comment I'll make is that GM dealer counter parts prices are unbelievable! I bought some gaskets and bolts from various GM dealers here in the local area, and it just blows me away how expensive they are.

I know if I was willing to wait, I could get them a *lot* cheaper online, plus save myself the aggravation of driving all over Orlando. (I mean, why stock a single exhaust manifold gasket for a V8? That was true for not 1, not 2, but for 3 different dealerships!!) Plus I almost always have to have a part number for them... I've only found one that was willing to work his way through various late model books to figure out which exhaust manifold gasket will work on my ported LS6 heads.

Not to derail the thread, but dealership parts counters are just over-the-top expensive. It takes my breath away...

Maybe I need to get some accounts opened so I don't have to pay retail anymore. Or call Jeff Tate!

jp

[DriverzInc]

Thank you to whomever made this a sticky. That is very much appreciated.

Thank you to all of you who posted in response to my post. I think MuscleCarJohn touches on a small point to be made too. With the dawn of the internet, and with forums like this one, we often forget that there are REAL people on the other side of the keyboard, trying to make a living doing this very thing.

Will we discontinue giving away technical assistance to our customers who call and email? Definitely not. How could we, its our lifeline. We might be a little more selective with how much we give away, or how we give it away, but we need to continue in order to let customers know we are making available the best fitting product to fit their application. We can only hope and keep our fingers crossed that the majority percentage of those customers who we do help, will eventually buy from us, or at least call us back and give us the opportunity to match a better deal if they find it elsewhere. In most cases, we've already dropped our prices on what we can to the best possible price, but if you found it 10 bucks cheaper somewhere else, let us know.

I also am very aware that times are hard, and many customers can't not afford to shop around. But in many cases, we're very much in the same ball park on those very same parts, and when we're talking about a matter of a few dollars, remember what those few extra dollars are paying for... better customer service, and product knowledge. And judging by some of the previous stories told in this thread, may save you heartache and additional costs in the future.

This is what we love. It is why we do it, and why we continue to work hard, and spend countless hours on the phone, on these forums, on the road at shows, or in the shop... There's no way I would want to go back to a desk job. But in order for us to continue doing what we do, we will need to depend on loyal customers to come back to us in support of all our hard efforts.

[Lowend]

I hear ya
When I was still in the biz it got to the point where I would not even discuss camshafts over the phone with people because they were getting specs and going mailorder.
Was not will to give out part numbers on the phone - just a quote tag number for when they came in.

Remember - if your good dealers don't make money they won't continue to exist

[JEFFTATE]

Oops , I posted twice.

[JEFFTATE]

i may be the only one (i doubt it) but i NEVER buy at my chevy dealer. i do not feel that i should have to haggle for a lower price.

Well ,you are exactly right about one thing.
Most Dealerships try to charge FULL Retail Price for their parts.
Then they try to haggle about the price.
I don't even try that approach.
I try to price shop other vendors who carry Genuine GM Parts and price match or beat them.
(And even come close to the price of aftermarket parts.)

I'm just trying to be good to anyone from this board , or elsewhere ,who wants to buy a Genuine GM Part.
Of course , there are great Aftermarket sources out there too .
But IF someone chooses to buy a GM part as opposed to an aftermarket part , I want to be helpful to them.

Also , I'll admit , a lot of the Genuine GM Performance Parts stuff is a little overpriced.
The quality is good , though.

[daredvl22]

Although I'm a newbie, I wanted to give my thoughts. I believe in customer service, and I'm willing to pay more for a product as a result. I recently just started my build and unfortunately is going a little slow, mainly because I'm concerned with the economy. However, if it weren't for this forum I would not be as inspired as I am to work on my car. I have learned so much from this forum. I can't even begin to explain how many questions I've had answered simply by reading different posts. I 100% believe in supporting the vendors. I've already bought several parts from vendors on this forum and I plan on doing much more business in the future.

Jon - by the way, I will be picking up one of your new steering wheels. Give me about a week and I'll call or PM you my order. Hang in there guys and please keep doing what you're doing. Without you we would all be lost and our cars would not look or perform nearly as cool as they do!

[venturabeachpup]

I too consider myself a little budget guy with a big project. Half of my recreation time is spent having fun reading this forum an doing pruduct research.

Frank/Prodigy, I really like your attitude and as a result I can see doing some biz with you in the future. I hate preasure. The one time I spoke with you, you made me feel wecomed and your advice was rite on.

I agree. support the vendors when possible.
My stuff.
Subframe connectors from DSE
Quadra Link from DSE
Wheels from Boze Forge
Fender braces from Undercover Inovations
Many from Jeg's and Summit

[minendrews68]

Man, I wish I was one of the Vendors here....This is probably one of the best sites I've seen. The closeness of all who's here is really something else, and NO, I'm not getting in touch with my feminine side!!! Just really like this site.
Anyway, does anyone need any granite countertops? Maybe I will be a vendor after all. (just a little expensive to go to some of the places you guys and gals are from) lol

Carl

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

"Once their product become old news or a cheaper version is made by some unscrupulous ripoff artist the high $$$ parts get alot more shelf time and the people that did all the really hard and expensive product development get screwed."



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[dhutton]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
LOL.... Hey Mr. V, that's not my quote. It's True's quote that I was quoting.... :)

[bigvegan]

Man, I wish I had more cash to support the vendors.

Those Nelson Racing Engines TT crate engines on the pro-touring.com front page right now are SICK!

[MickMc]

I saw this from my buddy Jeffery and thought it should go here.



Every time your customers buy from you, they’re telling you, “You win. We elected you vendor and we’re voting with our dollars, our money.” Is that sweet or what? Real sweet. Unless you don’t win.

It’s a double loss. You lose, and the competition is celebrating. Reality bites.

Most of your customers have more than one vendor selling them the same product. Some have several. So you may have a customer, but not all their business. All their wallet. It’s even referred to as “wallet share.”

Voting decisions are based on either history or trust or both.

Those decisions are formulated from the following criteria:
• Ease of doing business
• Belief in product
• Perceived value of product
• Reliability of product (quality x use)
• Durability of product
• Reputation of product
• On-time delivery exactly when I need it, where I need it
• Correctness of order
• Correctness of billing
• Ease of return
• Ease of order add on
• Ease of order change
• Friendliness of people
• Performance comparison of product
• Customer’s belief in company
• Customer’s belief in salesperson
• Response to service needs
• Response of salesperson
• Trustworthiness of total package

And you thought it was price.
No, price is only the issue in the absence of value.



Thank you for your support




Mick

[SatisTraction]

well as a buyer i disagree with weight that you put on price.

two venders with decent reps with the same part. the lower price wins.

that is why i do not buy parts at the dealerships. i can get the same part shipped to me for less.

it is simple math and as times get harder it will win more and more.

there will always be the super high $$$$ builds just less and less of them.

i have a good friend who owns a salvage yard. his business has picked up 100% in the last year and half. what does that tell you?

it tells me that the mass consumers are looking for lower priced options and that is where the mass consumers will spend the $$$.

pick your target buyers and be sure there are enough of them.

[MickMc]

well as a buyer i disagree with weight that you put on price. Kmart and Walmart compete head to head

two venders with decent reps with the same part. the lower price wins. That seem obvious

that is why i do not buy parts at the dealerships. i can get the same part shipped to me for less. Justify the "same part", yes I can buy AC Delco from someone else and save money

it is simple math and as times get harder it will win more and more. Lack of value or a lower and lower price

there will always be the super high $$$$ builds just less and less of them. I'm watching for that one

i have a good friend who owns a salvage yard. his business has picked up 100% in the last year and half. what does that tell you? More and more people are fixing their old cars. People can't get a loan to buy a new car. People are unwilling or to scared to buy a new car therefor they need to fix their old car. People are trying to not spend money on discretionary items. More people have lost their jobs or are scared they may loose their jobs.

it tells me that the mass consumers are looking for lower priced options and that is where the mass consumers will spend the $$$.

pick your target buyers and be sure there are enough of them.


Right out of Walmarts annual report
"the mass consumers are looking for lower priced options and that is where the mass consumers will spend the dollars.
pick your target buyers and be sure there are enough of them"

And Harbor Freight too.

GM sales are down 40+%
Ford sales are down
Chrysler sales are down
Mercedes sales are up 5%
I think Toyota and Nissian and Honda sales are up too NOT TOYOTA, I STAND CORRECTED!

Price is only the issue in the absence of value

Mick

[Damn True]

Wrong. Toyota is down close to 40%.

[SatisTraction]

Right out of Walmarts annual report
"the mass consumers are looking for lower priced options and that is where the mass consumers will spend the dollars.
pick your target buyers and be sure there are enough of them"

And Harbor Freight too.

GM sales are down 40+%
Ford sales are down
Chrysler sales are down
Mercedes sales are up 5%
I think Toyota and Nissian and Honda sales are up too

Price is only the issue in the absence of value

Mick

looks like we kinda agree on most of it.

your numbers are a bit off, though i do not care enough to look them up.

as far as value vs price. i would be willing to bet (how could i prove it) that those chinese knock off control arms out sell DSE 3 to 1. DSE is a much better product but the knock offs are way cheaper.

how many headers did ATS sell compare to the hooker swap headers?

i could go on and on with price vs quality but for a dealer / vender i think the lower price will always win when the quanity is figured in. there are just more low buck projects then high dollar ones.

you really cant mass produce high dollar "custom" parts. they are either no longer custom or do not have enough demand.

[speedster]

looks like we kinda agree on most of it.

your numbers are a bit off, though i do not care enough to look them up.

as far as value vs price. i would be willing to bet (how could i prove it) that those chinese knock off control arms out sell DSE 3 to 1. DSE is a much better product but the knock offs are way cheaper.

how many headers did ATS sell compare to the hooker swap headers?

i could go on and on with price vs quality but for a dealer / vender i think the lower price will always win when the quanity is figured in. there are just more low buck projects then high dollar ones.

you really cant mass produce high dollar "custom" parts. they are either no longer custom or do not have enough demand.

There are pros and cons to knock offs.
I have bought from DSE, Frank at Prodigy (and will again as I actually get the car farther along) Twist Machine, 2 Nelson engines, ATS, Felser billet, etc. I prefer quality over sheer price. Hence the earlier term of price only counts with no value. The vendors I listed have great value. I have gotten stuff from Frank and Steevo that flat out no one else makes, or others make crap knock offs. With regards to DSE, if I bought a chinese item made with a higher content of pot metal and it failed during a 150 mph run through the quarter, I'd be in the wall and dead. I value not only price, but QUALITY. These vendors stand behind their products and put them on their own cars and beat the hell out of them before they sell item number 1. I would bet the Chinese products don't and could care less. People like Frank also provide value in knowledge, plus he's a true car guy through and through. There are a lot of low buck car people and god bless 'em, they have every right to find the best deal at salvage yards or even the cheap knock-offs. I just hope no one ever loses their life based on a decision to save a few buck buying inferior product. IMO.

[SatisTraction]

agreed!! but are you majority?

[JChristian1835]

Being in sales for a long time I've learned a couple of things. The biggest being the type of customers. You have the people that will buy just because they trust you and want to only deal and trust you. Then you have the people who only look at the price and go buy an inferior product. You have people that shop around due to the fact they want quality but at a bargain price. Then you have the dreamers. Most of the time when anyone walks away, it's because I didn't show them the value of buying from me. But some people out there are only after price and those people will never buy something of value, they'll buy crap 5 times for 50 bucks cheaper than buy once and it lasts the same and save 200 bucks.

[MickMc]

looks like we kinda agree on most of it. Yes there is a bell curve and the majority fall under the middle and a majority don't care about anything but their total bill at Walmart.

your numbers are a bit off, though i do not care enough to look them up. Yes I know. I care enough to check.

as far as value vs price. i would be willing to bet (how could i prove it) that those chinese knock off control arms out sell DSE 3 to 1. DSE is a much better product but the knock offs are way cheaper.

how many headers did ATS sell compare to the hooker swap headers? This is not about volume, this is about value and quality.

i could go on and on with price vs quality but for a dealer / vender i think the lower price will always win when the quanity is figured in. You missed the point. If two items are the same quality then of course the lower price will win. But if price is the main factor why is Mercedes selling cars and Tiffany's selling stuff. Price is a factor in the absence of quality. Quality is selling, Mercedes is providing value, therefore the are selling cars, and high priced cars no less. there are just more low buck projects then high dollar ones. And there are more people shopping at walmart than tiffany's, thats just the law of large numbers. Low price shoppers are just that, price shoppers. That in itself has made china what it is today, the lowest price garbage producer.
If it was only about price there would be no Mercedes and no Nordstrom. Only wallmart and harbor freight.
Yes there is a larger market for price only shoppers but that does not change the fact that people are still willing to pay for quality and therefore value.

you really cant mass produce high dollar "custom" parts. they are either no longer custom or do not have enough demand. Yes but that has nothing to do with VALUE




Mick