Unusual 305

[Steeevooo]

How ya guys doing...I just started tearing my 1980 camaro berlinetta apart about a year ago, I knew it had a 305 in it the car only has 60000 miles on and I was going to proceed to make it a touring but do to the excessive rust because it sat in a pair tree field under a pair tree for 8 years (go figure) I decided to scrap the body and pull the motor out. I pulled to motor to find that the 305 has a 4 bolt main and I took it to an engine shop close to me to see if the block was any good and the guy said he has only seen maybe 3 of these in his lifetime and wanted to do a metal test on the block which came back about a week ago and the block has a high nickel content in it and he told me the block could handle a substantial amount of horse power. I still very much want to make a pro touring car but I figured id get the heart of the project finished off first and then find a rolloing chassis later on. I really want to make this motor a twin turbo set up just because Ive never actually seen a twin turbo 305...im not looking for a ridiculous amount of horse power id be happy with pulling at most 600 horse out of the block...can it be done? I just got a nice settlement from a car accident and want to build me something different...can it be done?

[ill steez]

thats pretty cool! if i were you i'd build a pro-touring/trans-am style camaro and just build the 305 up n/a. that would make for a pretty cool car.

[Restomod]

Did you measure the bore to be 100% sure??

[WS6]

I can't believe this until you give me a bore measurement, sorry. If this is truly a 305 awesome. I just can't believe it yet.

[Steeevooo]

I didnt measure the bore but the guy at the machine shop said it was deff a 305 ill get the measurements for ya though I also have the orginal blueprint on the motor I found in the car when i was tearing it apart ill see if I can get a pic of it on here...but in other words shud I just leave the block alone and buy like a new forged block from jegs or something and turbo that instead of going all out on this?

[Bill Howell]

.... I also have the orginal blueprint on the motor I found in the car when i was tearing it apart ill see if I can get a pic of it on here...
I would love to see that. Not sure what you are talking about.

If you really have a 4 bolt main 305, I would put it up and save it. You can turbo anything but replacing that rare engine block will be hard to do.

[Norwoodx55]

shud I just leave the block alone and buy like a new forged block from jegs or something

Yes. Let us know how that works out.

[MarkM66]

Interesting.

460778.....305...78-79...2 or 4, some Canadian assembled heavy duty truck blocks have 4-bolt main caps

[SPECWARSQUID]

Sounds a little wierd to me, but who knows.

There are rumors about "Factory" Canadian produced 305 blocks for certain truck applications. But no one seems to be able to produce any casting numbers. It's 2009 and I would think that actual evidence of one of these engine would have surfaced by now. Yeah I guess there is always a chance, but I would think that some of the inherant confusion between 305 and 350 casting numbers, mixed with bench racing might have been the origin of these rumors. All GM information with regards to the 305 indicates all these blocks were produced as 2 bolt and 2 bolt mains only. The one out in my garage on the engine stand is no exception.

Hey Steve if you are fortunate to have one of these engines, crack it open and lets measure some bore diameters and get some pictures taken of some #s.


____________
Semper Fortis

[MarkM66]

Yes. Let us know how that works out.

:lol:

[cjrolke]

i have a buddy who has a 78 malibu that the original 305 was a 4 bolt main

machine shop never seen anything like it before

[WS6]

In terms of building a 305, someone will need to correct me if I am wrong but I believe the issues with why a 305 doesn't have more power potential has nothing to do with the cu in but everything to do with how they made the size. Meaning the bore and stroke were just a bad combination where as with say the 302 the bore and stroke were a good combination.

If you really want to build a 305, go get a 2 bolt one for cheap as they are basically given away and build it. You can four bolt it or stud it with steel caps. Either way will be strong enough for turbos and high revs

[slowcamaro]

2 bolt or 4 bolt, its not a wise engine to build. Sell the block to someone restrained with cubic inch limitations or classes mandating a 305 in particular.

The reason not to build a 305 has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with flow. The bore is too small to run decent heads.

I am not saying you can't make a 305 make power, If you throw enough money at anything you can make power. But you are better off starting with a 350. Dollar for dollar you WILL make more power.

[wendell]

High nickle boat anchor.

[silver69camaro]

A 305 is a 305.

[Steve Chryssos]

The reason not to build a 305 has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with flow. The bore is too small to run decent heads....

Yup. They have small 3.736" or 3.875" bores. More importantly, the small bores result in narrow valve centerlines in the heads. There is simply not enough room between the valves (because of the valve centerline) or around the valves (because of the bores) to allow for sufficient valve diameter. Cam, intake/exhaust runner volume, port size, and compression all must be matched to the point of maximum restriction. In this case, it's the valve head diameter.

All this makes a 2 HP per cube formula difficult to achieve.

[Randy67]

With the right head a 305 should make good power, not the 2 HP per cube level, but good power. Heck, the Ford 4.6L only has a 3.552" bore (3.543" stroke) and they run pretty good, even in the dismal :machine: 2V format (PI motor that is). Not ideal at all. Given a choice I would still spend the money on at least a 350 or 400 instead of the 305.

[novaderrik]

what's the bore on the mighty 5.7 liter LS1? i know it's somewhat less than 4", and they make good power and are more efficient compared to the older stuff with 4" bores.

[Steeevooo]

Just got the bore and stroke on the 305 its 3.74 x 3.48 is what he told me...it just seems wierd....i still have the body cuz i didnt have the heart to call the junkman yet the car has t-tops as well and they dont leak, and I checked to make sure the car was in fact a berlinetta and it is the 2nd digit in the VIN code is S making it a true berlinetta now i just have to find out about the wierd motor...maybe I should call GM corp? Any ideas?

[Steeevooo]

Im also stuck between a rock and a hard spot here. I went to the local junkyard about a week ago and they a beautiful 1980 trans am just siitting there, no rust,no rot,no motor...which isnt a big deal and since ive decided to put the 305 up in the raftors im probably gunna pick up a 350 B block from jegs with forged internals and go from there...i made a few phone calls to hellion about their mustang turbos and just poked around about the idea of throwing them in a pontiac and they told me they would be more than happy to make the tubing for me pending the motor size and turbos i went with...I also spotted what I think was a 70 maverick...ima ford guy at heart but I just love the way ponts and chevys look but I figured when was the last freaking time I saw a TT maverick? never lol...I just want some input and opinions on this one cuz both cars i think would be awsome

[silver69camaro]

what's the bore on the mighty 5.7 liter LS1? i know it's somewhat less than 4", and they make good power and are more efficient compared to the older stuff with 4" bores.

The 5.7L LS engines do have a smaller bore, but the heads flow as much as big block heads - that's where the power comes from.

[slowcamaro]

One more time for clarification sake. It's not the bore size thats the problem by itself. It's the fact that the bore size limits the heads(valve size, valve shrouding, valve to bore clearance) in the case of the 305.

[WS6]

correct. The bores of Ferraris and the like are small and yet they scream. It's all in the head design. If someone really wanted to make a head/intake combo to properly feed a 305, it would work fine.

[cjrolke]

or you could be like some of the people i went to school with

"put some 350 heads on it and it will be a 350"

lol

[Steeevooo]

I see my post got a little side tracked...anyone answer my questions lol?

[David Pozzi]

The problem I see with a TT Maverick is, lack of engine room, and lack of room for wide tires. You can overcome the problems with engineering and money but it will cost more money, a lot more.

I got into a deal long ago with a V8 Vega, when we were done adding 12bolt rear and upgrading every component including a Camaro gas tank to replace the tiny Vega one during the 1978 gas shortage, the car weighed 3000 lbs and we still were fighting the small wheel sizes we were limited to. We could have done a Camaro and added some lightweight components to get the weight down and been far better off. If you want to save money go with a Camaro, Firebird, or Mustang.
David

[maldo]

any pictures and casting numbers ....... yet ..

[Steeevooo]

I just got a 93 gt thats in mint condition and its only got 21000 miles on it...I was going to sell it to further fund w/e project I got myself into...should I just dump what money I have into that? The guy that had it before me set it up for drag racing, it has over 10,000 in just suspension and tranny alone he through in the torque converter and supercharger headers (dont know if that what they are called he told me they were but I've never actually heard them called that)so really the only thing i need is a motor for it Im selling my 64 1/2 stang which ill prolly post on here soon but my budget for the motor is looking like 6g's and I'll scoop up some nice rims and tires along the way. I'll get some pics of it up tomorrow, it also has the t-rex fuel pump msd ignition and high torque starter like I said all i need is a motor

[Steeevooo]

302 or 351 i cant decide...does one have an advantage over the other?

[MonzaRacer]

351 has taller deck, gives better rod to stroke ratio. Heads are much better on 351 and besides nothing beats cubic inches and the 351 can be stroked very easy. http://www.ohiocrank.com/ford_rotate.html

[compos mentis]

Unless you'd want to save weight wherever possible, I'd agree on the 351.

By the way, where are you located?

[Steeevooo]

New Jersey...the only reason I was stuck on the 302 is because I have these 1200$ headers he gave me that were for the 331 he previously built I wasnt sure if theyd match up to 351 heads...and yea I have the casting numbers on the block I just gotta find the 3x5 card I put it on lol and as soon as the block comes back from the machine shop Ill get pics up

[maroon88iroc]

cant you drill and tap any two bolt main block to make it a 4 bolt?

[compos mentis]

New Jersey...the only reason I was stuck on the 302 is because I have these 1200$ headers he gave me that were for the 331 he previously built I wasnt sure if theyd match up to 351 heads...and yea I have the casting numbers on the block I just gotta find the 3x5 card I put it on lol and as soon as the block comes back from the machine shop Ill get pics up

Those headers should fit fine.

[Twentyover]

Be careful about saying that. The deck is taller on a 351, and may drive the header tubes into the bellhousing

[compos mentis]

...the only reason I was stuck on the 302 is because I have these 1200$ headers he gave me that were for the 331 he previously built I wasnt sure if theyd match up to 351 heads...

I answered his question, they will match up with the heads he puts on the proposed 351 since he could use the same style head that were on the 331 that came out of the GT he purchased. Of course we don't know if the header diameter is appropriate for the 351 he might get. Only Steeevooo and/or the engine builder can determine that obviously.

I agree of course there is no way of telling if they will fit in his car, or not fit his car, if he goes to the taller 351 until he mocks it up.