Hyundai offers buyers an out if they get laid off.

[bigvegan]

This doesn't seem like a bad idea.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/05/autos/hyundai_assurance/index.htm?postversion=2009010513

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Hyundai Motor America is taking aim at Americans' worries about job security: If you buy a new Hyundai and lose your job within a year, you can give it back.
"In this uncertain economy, we are looking for ways to reassure shoppers that Hyundai still represents the best value in the auto industry," said John Krafcik, president and chief executive of Hyundai Motor America, the U.S. arm of the South Korea-based automaker, in a company statement.
"If you find that you cannot make your payment because of a covered life changing event, we'll allow you to return your vehicle and walk away from your loan obligation - and in most cases we will cover most, if not all of the difference," the carmaker's Web site says.
With no extra charge to the sticker price, the program pays the difference between the car's trade-in value at the time the owner files a claim and any remaining balance on the loan up to a maximum of $7,500.
Hyundai is offering the program because its own market research showed car shoppers weren't attracted by rebates and other more normal incentives, said Joel Ewanick, Hyundai America's vice president for marketing. People are simply too worried about making payments no matter how good the deal is, he said...

[maldo]

wow thats pretty cool ...

[TonyL]

Hyundai was already my favorite car company. I dont have my Genesis yet. But I will have one. My wife is *not* gonna get over it till she has one. And at 35 grand? I cannot argue with her on this one.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Does everything a mercedes, lexus and BMW does better.

[wmhjr]

I do think Hyundai has a good product, and the Genesis is attractive. But I also think saying it does everything that a MB or Mercedes does but better is a HUGE overstatement. Having driven both I certainly don't agree. I also think that they blatantly copied styling and think they should have done their own styling.

JMHO

[6'9"Witha69]

ALL they do is copy styling. When one looks like a jag, one like an Accord and this one a MBZ, it is clear they do not pay a lot for designers.

[Vegas69]

I do think Hyundai has a good product, and the Genesis is attractive. But I also think saying it does everything that a MB or Mercedes does but better is a HUGE overstatement. Having driven both I certainly don't agree. I also think that they blatantly copied styling and think they should have done their own styling.

JMHO

I have to agree...there are so many facets that make a car great. You simply can't build as nice a car for 35k as you can 60k.

[TonyL]

It is NOT an overstatement. The car is just as good. I've driven both as well. The Genisis is *faster* quieter, has a better stereo, is bigger, stops faster and gets better mileage than a mercedes.

I can understand the doubts, but you just have to drive one. The fit and finish is better than a lexus. The gaps are tighter than lexus's The interior is as good or better. The feel is astonishing. the only other car that has four wheel multilink in its class costs more than twice as much.

And lastly, if this is what Hyundai can do for 36 grand, *imagine* what they can do at twice that price point. Lexus and the like should be very scared.

[Damn True]

Ive been in Korean manufacturing facilities. It's going to take quite a few years of solid reliability for me to put any trust in a product produced there or in China.

[TonyL]

You mean ones in Korea or the Hyundai plant in Alabama? Im aware that just in the last two years alone they've made HUGE changes to create higher quality. Even limiting the amount of over head processes workers do, in order to reduce fatigue and mistakes.

[Damn True]

In Korea. I was unaware they had InCONUS manufacturing.

[TonyL]

they sure do

http://www.hmmausa.com/

they build the sonata and santa fe there. It's supposed to be one of the higest tech ones in the country.. They're going to be building genesis there too, I think I read somewhere.

[acegto]

Go to the Hyuandai website and check out the Genesis coupe...should be out late 09 or early 2010...looks like competition for the Z car. And they will probably start out about 5 grand cheaper!!! Too bad an American manufacturer can't build a V6 sportscar to compete with these.

[TonyL]

you mean competition for the mustang and camaro. Not my words, but PHR's

[trapin]

Uhh....come again?

Mustang and Camaro?

What's going on?

[TonyL]

Phr called it (the genesis coupe.) a competitor for the mustang and new camaro.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

while ricey, sure, it is a front engine, rear drive V6 (300hp, sound familiar?) coupe. And there's the Genesis 375hp V8 too.

[shmoov69]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Does everything a mercedes, lexus and BMW does better.

Except resale! May be a nice car, but it is STILL a Hyundai! NOT a MB or BMW or Lexus, a Hyundai. Will be a hard stigma to overcome....and it will not ever compare to them to the general public.....and the media!

[TonyL]

Actually, have you read a review? The Genesis has won over every major car mag out there. Not one bad review yet. The *only* thing "wrong" with the car is the stigma. So sayeth, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Motor Trend. But what do they know, right?

Granted. It's a Hyundai. Hyundai aint what it used to be. To judge this car based on cars they no longer make is wrong. The current crop of offerings are pretty much loved by all. And they *still* have the best warranty in the business.

/Don't knock it, is all im saying. Have a look at one. I thought my wife was insane too, until i did my research.

[TonyL]

Here's the one at sema this year.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Killer looking.

It's "familiar" Like the BMW trunkline
The lexus headlights, (true HID standard)
The mercedes shaped grille.
The lexus roofline and side window profile.

They picked the best features of several competitors and blended them.

[Vegas69]

Have you ever considered being a Hyundai rep?:lmao: Hey...it's a good looking car. I agree. Agree with the stigma as well...look at poor GM. Most of these guys driving around in BMW's and Merceded would pay twice as much just for the simple fact it's not a Hyundai. Ego is a very powerful thing. Looks like a killer buy. I remember when I bought my 03 G35. It was the best thing since sliced bread. It wasn't and still isn't a BMW but a damn fine car for the money.

[Damn True]

I'd buy a Bimmer because they look and drive like a Bimmer.
I'd buy a Merc because they look and drive like a Merc.
Wouldn't buy a Lexus. Don't dig the way they look or drive.

I wouldn't buy a Hyundai or any other car for that matter, that looked sorta like both and drove sorta like both and something else too.

Merc and Bimmer have spent decades crafting a look, feel, and driving dynamic that makes their cars distinctive. You can identify one from a mile away and you can tell if you are behind the wheel of one if blindfolded. One can argue that there are cars that are "better" in some subjective way than one or the other. The CTS-V comes to mind. But the CTS-V, though bitchin, and I'd totally buy one is still not a Bimmer or a Merc. Neither is a Hyundai.

"Just as good" is not.

[TonyL]

So, you're ok with paying 30 grand more for a name? image? That's your prerogative I suppose.

BMWs are crap. always have been and always will be. the 318i? Remember that? Those cars were junk. But since they weren't the halo car of BMW, people forgave them.

And it's widely known about Merc's electrical quality problems? a 80 thousand dollar car, breaks down because you rolled down a window? Bad service because you had the nerve to buy the "cheap" cars?

When people who get paid to review cars say things like "if I didn't know better, I'd swear I was driving a Lexus" That's saying something. These cars are good. Very good.

And I think with time, they'll be accepted and eventually respected by car people world wide. I understand your reservations, I do. I just cannot discount the value though.

oh and watch this Bmw driving like a Bmw and getting its ass handed to it by a Hyundai.

J0FaJCn3QMU

[TonyL]

LOL head over to Jalopnik as of right now.

http://jalopnik.com/5124031/consumer-reports-hyundai-genesis-new-top+rated-upscale-sedan-bests-lexus-es-350

From the linked article

"Plucky Korean upstart Hyundai has beaten rivals from Saab, Pontiac, Lexus, Toyota, Acura and Lincoln; the Genesis has just been named Consumer Reports’ new top-rated upscale sedan. Who knew Hyundai was the new Lexus?"

Interesting coincidence that was posted today.

[streetk14]

Here's a review of the Genesis I found on C&D.com. http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/hyundai/genesis/2009_hyundai_genesis/2009_hyundai_genesis_4_6_road_test+type-reviews_by_make+mode-collection+id-269.html A good looking luxury car (if a bit of a copy-cat) but a sport sedan, it's not. Certainly getting a good bang for the buck, and if you were in the market for a Lexus this might be a good choice to save a bunch of cash. If you want something fun to drive, I'd say look elsewhere.

You really can't compare it to a Benz or a Bimmer. Those are true sport sedans that are as much more about the driving experience than luxury. The Hyundai might look like a MBZ or BMW, but I can guarantee it does not handle like one.

[TonyL]

I'll give you that it's not a "performance" sedan, yet. But only because it lacks an "AMG" company to make it one. The parts are there. It has the Mercs multilink front and rear suspension, the huge brakes, (112ft 60-0) and the power too (sub 6 second 0-60). And this *not* the "performance" one.

It does hold its own though, you have to give credit where it is due. They wanted a middle of the road car to get the name out, but soon enough, there will be a performance Genesis sedan. Then there will trouble. Imagine a bigger engine, tighter suspension and even better brakes. It'll happen.

[trapin]

Tony...I would tend to agree with you. Although I've never driven the Hyundai, I'll bet you're right that it drives like a dream and has impeccable form and function.

The problem is......the price. Although it's great that a car like that is affordably priced, the "luxury car snobs" will never accept it nor will they ever trust it because it's south of the $50K threshold.

It'll have a "stigma" attached to it. Something we at GM are VERY familiar with.

[Vegas69]

Maybe I'm lucky but on my second 5 series on the new body and both have been really good cars. I've had my new one for 1.5 years and it's had one oil change and a wiper problem caused by the body shop.
I agree with Trapin...it's competition is the G35, CTS, and Acura TL. If they asked the same money as BMW or Mercedes they wouldn't sell one car. It's a reputation and prestige they have earned somehow. Right or wrong it exists. It should be interesting. Never the less, I am sure it's a fine car.

[shmoov69]

Tony, are you a sales manager for them or something?!!? LOL!! You are taking this pretty seriously!
I'm not saying that it isn't a nice or good car, but it is STILL A HYUNDAI. Yes that is a BIG stigma to overcome, and I do believe that people that buy BMW's and Lexus' and MB's do pay extra for the image of what they portray. Those same people are not going to buy a Hyundai. Now, you or me may buy one because it is a good car for the money, but not because it is comparable to them.

What was the bash fest that was going on over the older GM stgma awhile back?

[TonyL]

No i do not work for them, LOL. I just remember when toyota started building "Lexus" cars and people laughted and said "no one will pay that much for a glorified Toyota. It's still a Toyota fer crying out loud!" And now look.

Toyota has become the old GM of the 80s, Big, Boring and Bloated. Hyundai has become Toyota of the 90s. A sharp increase quality, stile and value.

I like rooting for the underdog. I drive a Corvair, remember? Im rooting for GM to regain it's image, prestige and market share back too. And I recognize when a car company has pulled out all the stops in the name of building an image and in bringing a good product at a fair price to the market.

[6'9"Witha69]

Granted. It's a Hyundai. Hyundai aint what it used to be. To judge this car based on cars they no longer make is wrong. The current crop of offerings are pretty much loved by all.


BMWs are crap. always have been and always will be. the 318i? Remember that? Those cars were junk. But since they weren't the halo car of BMW, people forgave them.

Sounds a little hypocritical, don't ya think?

Same argument Tony Rapin makes about GM is what applies here, I agree, things have changed and they have gotten better. The cars are much more to peoples liking and reliability has gone up. But to say they drive and feel like brand M is still subjective, and many "purists" will definitely have their objections.

[TonyL]

Sounds a little hypocritical, don't ya think?

Same argument Tony Rapin makes about GM is what applies here, I agree, things have changed and they have gotten better. The cars are much more to peoples liking and reliability has gone up. But to say they drive and feel like brand M is still subjective, and many "purists" will definitely have their objections.

Nope, the BMW remark was in reference to the idea that BMW makes quality cars. They don't. Their large cars are good, but he small ones suck. They just don't hold up well. In fact many of them just fall apart, but for some unknown reason people dismiss this fact, and keep fawning over them cause they go fast. Yet every year they make a new car it's "the greatest thing ever". I don't understand it. 318s fell apart. 325s fell apart. Only the 7 series cars are decent, and that's supposed to make up for the lesser cars?

However, just like any fledgling car company, the first offerings are usually cheap and lacking quality so they can get product out there. And then over a short period of time, quality increases. Hyundai is following Honda and Toyota's pattern of starting small, and getting bigger and better.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Damn.. Tony wavin the Hyundai flag proud!


ahahhah

[TonyL]

indeed. To bad Im on my own on this one. :( Oh well.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

nah, give it a little bit.. when these cars are out.. folks will change their tune..

[wmhjr]

So, you're ok with paying 30 grand more for a name? image? That's your prerogative I suppose.

BMWs are crap. always have been and always will be. the 318i? Remember that? Those cars were junk. But since they weren't the halo car of BMW, people forgave them.

And it's widely known about Merc's electrical quality problems? a 80 thousand dollar car, breaks down because you rolled down a window? Bad service because you had the nerve to buy the "cheap" cars?

When people who get paid to review cars say things like "if I didn't know better, I'd swear I was driving a Lexus" That's saying something. These cars are good. Very good.

And I think with time, they'll be accepted and eventually respected by car people world wide. I understand your reservations, I do. I just cannot discount the value though.

oh and watch this Bmw driving like a Bmw and getting its ass handed to it by a Hyundai.

J0FaJCn3QMU

Sorry, Tony but you're obviously in love with Hyundai and emotionally involved with these comments. Let me give you some actual information, OK

I've owned a number of BMWs, including M3's, Z3s and M-Roadsters as well as a 2002tii. In over 250k miles between them, the ONLY repair I've ever had to make outside of normal wear and tear (brakes, etc) is that the M-Roadster had a wire that chafed near the trunk lid that required fixing. And both the M3 and the M-Roadster had great fun tearing up Z06s at Beaver Run raceway. Stock. I can send you the pics. I've owned 2 MBs. An older E, a 2000 CLK320 and now an '08 E. Total repairs in ALL of them combined? A pair of electric fuel sending units in the '00 CLK at around 80k miles. MB DID have some serious quality issues in particular between '03 and '05 as a result of having to cut costs to support the massive drain caused by Chrysler on Daimler Chrylser. You can read all about it. For example: http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2007/06/mercedes_e_clas.html

Tony, the Hyundai looks like a decent car. But a MB or BMW it is not. Again, I've DRIVEN it. Have you? And I've owned BMWs and still own MBs. Have you?

The Genesis is neither faster nor more economical on fuel. It neither handles better, nor has a better ride. An "increase in style"??? LOL!!! Its styling is a blatant ripoff of other brands rather than actually designing for themselves. They don't need a Hyundai version of AMG. MB doesn't use AMG to produce the E550 for example, which utterly destroys the Genesis.

[GothamCity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nee74mv6FS4

this car is sweet

[Gonzostyle]

Tony, I am going to have to completely disagree with you about the 3s and 5s being crap. I have 278K on my 96 318i. I dislike the lack power, I dislike that it is an automatic, but the car does not have the squeaks, rattles and creaking that most other new cars have at 12yrs old. It is also not falling apart. My 88 M3 was even more impressive with its fit and finish. That car had been driven HARD, by the previous owner and myself. No sqeaks or rattles everything worked, it did not fall apart (198K on it when I sold it). Of course my sample size is small compared to all of the BMWs out there, but I would certainly buy another 3 series.

As far as the Hyundai is concerned, I kinda dig them. Hyundai as a company had to get better, remember their cars in the early 90s? Also if I recall correctly they were the first to offer a 10yr/100K warrenty.

-Jeremie


Nope, the BMW remark was in reference to the idea that BMW makes quality cars. They don't. Their large cars are good, but he small ones suck. They just don't hold up well. In fact many of them just fall apart, but for some unknown reason people dismiss this fact, and keep fawning over them cause they go fast. Yet every year they make a new car it's "the greatest thing ever". I don't understand it. 318s fell apart. 325s fell apart. Only the 7 series cars are decent, and that's supposed to make up for the lesser cars?

.

[TonyL]

Tony, the Hyundai looks like a decent car. But a MB or BMW it is not. Again, I've DRIVEN it. Have you? And I've owned BMWs and still own MBs. Have you?

The Genesis is neither faster nor more economical on fuel. It neither handles better, nor has a better ride. An "increase in style"??? LOL!!! Its styling is a blatant ripoff of other brands rather than actually designing for themselves. They don't need a Hyundai version of AMG. MB doesn't use AMG to produce the E550 for example, which utterly destroys the Genesis.

Yep, i've driven 3 of them. I've even driven the prototype car they sent out in the summer.

The genesis is neither faster or economical than which car? You just watched it trounce a 5 series BMW. The Merc's you mentioned gas milage?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/24391.shtml

MPG (city)

15

MPG (highway)

22


The Genesis?

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=25285

17 and 25.... So where's this "destroyed" coming from? I dont see it? Where's this comparison? Other than destroying the Hyundai in price. I can't argue with you there.

The E550 posts a 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds. The genesis in 5.5. Not a huge margin at all, really. Is that two tents worth 40 grand? How about the 2 mph difference in the slalom?

The Ben's does the quarter mile in 13.5 seconds at 104mph.

The Genesis goes through the quarter mile in 14 seconds at 103mph.

So, yeah. There's areas where the bens is the leader, but it cost 40 thousand more!!!

[TonyL]

oh, and for the record, I've owned one MB car. an old 190 E. Didnt love it. But it was fun to say i had a Mercedes. Wish I had a picture of it all lowered.

[Vegas69]

That comparison was ridiculous. A 7 series and boxster? Not even competition for this car. Here is it's competition. http://www.infiniti.com/g_sedan/index.html Thhttp://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/best_worst_lists/2009_10best_cars_10best_cars+page-2.html

Bad news is it's three competitors are all 10 best this year. 3 series, G37, and CTS.

[TonyL]

All right Todd, I compared them

So what do you think? (http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/comparison/summary.aspx?vehicle=Genesis&trimid=24341|26014|26100&year=2009)

I used the 5 series in the comparo. Hyundai has always said when they built the car that their benchmarks were the chrysler 300, the 5 series and the E500 mercedes.

[Damn True]

I think it's a rather bland copy of someone else's design.

I think I'd prefer a G37 sedan with it's more distinctive design, performance second only to a 3-series and for less money to boot.

I do like the dash on the Hyundai though, but the "wood" console fascia.....yech.

[Vegas69]

I'm not that excited about it honestly. I really don't like the blatant approach to design. Some corners had to be cut to get that many options into that price point. The V8 has 235mm tires? I would have to drive it to comment much more. Has there been any shootouts in the mags between it and it's direct competition yet? That's what I want to see. I remember buying my G35 and thinking how could there be that big a difference between my G35 and a 545 for 25k. Until I drove it and I understood.

[TonyL]

agreed on the wood. I do like the liberal use of leather though. The wrap around onto the doors is nice looking.

There's room for improvement on any car. Some more than others, sure. But you have to appreciate the value Hyundai offers. It's at least very close where it is short of the much "better" cars in its segment, and at almost half the cost. Regardless of stature, that's impressive. I give them credit for even trying.

[TonyL]

I'm not that excited about it honestly. I really don't like the blatant approach to design. Some corners had to be cut to get that many options into that price point. The V8 has 235mm tires? I would have to drive it to comment much more. Has there been any shootouts in the mags between it and it's direct competition yet? That's what I want to see. I remember buying my G35 and thinking how could there be that big a difference between my G35 and a 545 for 25k. Until I drove it and I understood.


yes there has. Google Genesis comparisons and you'll see a bunch. Oh, the car has very good grip. It did better than most, if not all on a skidpad. I have seen the data somewhere.


Here's a direct comparison with the E class Merc. (the Merc won.) (http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive.shtml) Still a good read though. And fair enough.

[streetk14]

Nope, the BMW remark was in reference to the idea that BMW makes quality cars. They don't. Their large cars are good, but he small ones suck. They just don't hold up well. In fact many of them just fall apart, but for some unknown reason people dismiss this fact, and keep fawning over them cause they go fast. Yet every year they make a new car it's "the greatest thing ever". I don't understand it. 318s fell apart. 325s fell apart. Only the 7 series cars are decent, and that's supposed to make up for the lesser cars?

However, just like any fledgling car company, the first offerings are usually cheap and lacking quality so they can get product out there. And then over a short period of time, quality increases. Hyundai is following Honda and Toyota's pattern of starting small, and getting bigger and better.



Add me to the list of people who think this above statement is complete mis-information. The smaller cars (ie. 3 series) are BMW's bread and butter and are very well built and durable. The only thing wrong with the mid-90's 318 was the lack of power from it's tiny 4 cylinder engine. Even then, it was a great handling car. I would not own one, but there are reliable. Much better cars were the 325/328 models. I'm not sure if you are talking about the E30 model from the 80's (last year was '91), but everything BMW has made since then has been exceptional. The 3 series has been on Car & Driver's 10 best every year since the E36 model's debut in 1992. That's 16 years and running. Any car that's "crap" would not be accomplishing this task. The cars just keep getting better and continue to set the bar in the sport sedan market.

And as to the statement that they are poor quality, I've owned 3 BMW 3 series (their "small" car) and have had nearly zero problems. In fact, in the 6 years I've worked as a BMW tech, I have only replaced 2 engines. Both were a result of hydro-lock during heavy flooding/rainfall. I think I've only done a couple head jobs in that time period as well (and those were the result of a coolant leak or overheated engine that was driven until it cracked the head). BMW has always been an engine company and this is something they do very well. Internal engine work and oil leaks are something I rarely deal with. You should see how many engines the guys across the shop at Porsche do.

The things that bring down the "reliability" rating of these cars in mags like Consumer Reports are all the latest and greatest electronics in the cars. Being one of the leaders in new technology does have it's drawbacks. It means you are the one responsible for developing the new technology and working the kinks out.

[streetk14]

oh and watch this Bmw driving like a Bmw and getting its ass handed to it by a Hyundai.

J0FaJCn3QMU



I thought this was kind of funny as well. I've been laughing at Hyundai's advertising for a while now. The comparisons they make just don't make sense. Take BMW's biggest, heaviest car for the dragrace. The 750i is 500 pounds heavier than the Genesis (4050 vs. 4505) and you notice they avoided anything involving handling (lane change, slalom or a lap around the track). I"m not sure who did the test in the video, but the individual vehicle road tests I found by C&D showed the 750i doing 0-60 in 5.4, the Genesis in 5.6. Oh, and they shouldn't be comparing an '09 model Hyundai to an '08 BMW that is a 7 year old platform that is no longer made for 2009. A 2009 7 series would have resulted in much different results in acceleration.

Here is a quote from a recent C&D review:

With rear-drive, a thoroughly modern four-wheel independent suspension, a sophisticated six-speed automatic, and a gutsy 375-hp V-8, the Genesis (http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/hyundai/genesis) has the makings of a European sports sedan. To see whether it has the mojo, we put it up against the BMW 528i, the German sedan closest to it in price.
The Genesis effortlessly outpowers the 528i, but its performance superiority ends there. The Hyundai’s (http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/hyundai) stopping distances are longer, and cornering grip is way down.
More importantly, the BMW (http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/bmw) moves with a taut and responsive sureness that the Genesis can’t match. The Hyundai’s steering feels synthetic, with abrupt changes in effort that are only vaguely related to what the car is doing, and it transmits more kickback than is justified by the muted communication.
The Genesis’s suspension is firm over small bumps, but this doesn’t translate into good body control when the going gets quick. Still, large bumps don’t throw it off course. The engine delivers all of the thrust you can use, but kickdown shifts could be quicker.

[wmhjr]

Tony, I hate to say it but your generalizations and attempts to make this car into a supercar by saying it does everything a MB, BMW or Lexus does simply makes experienced and knowledgeable people completely disregard all of the comments because it's so totally and completely untrue. For example, you're comparing to an E500? Really? That's a 3 year old design, did you know that? Actually, I should say the car must be at least 3 years old because they're not built anymore.

Look, the Genesis is probably an OK car. Maybe a very nice car. But because you had a 190E you think you know MBs? Really? Well, I once sat in a Ferrari 512BB so I guess I know exactly how a new F70 compares to a Lambo.

Why don't you go to a BMW and a MB dealer and test drive a couple new cars, and then the genesis. Take somebody with you who isn't a fanboy of one brand or another. Then post the results.

I have loved my BMWs and MBs, but I recognize that they are not perfect, and that there are other cars out there I might rather have, but I either cannot afford or cannot justify them. I don't make my choice out to be the second coming of the auto industry to rationalize my own choices.