Sound deadner

[slck6t9]

I am getting ready to order some B-Quiet sound deadner. I was wondering which I should order their Extreme or Ultimate? I noticed one is asphalt based and the other is butyl based. Is there advantage to either? Also there is a big price difference between the two. Thoughts please..

[NOPANTS-68]

Never used that brand before but had really good luck with a product I found on ebay called Fatmat. It was literally 1/4th the price of Dynamat and worked great for me. One roll did my 68 Nova and the complete cockpit on a Factory Five Cobra I just finished. I think I paid $100 for it. It was Butyl based.

[80superbu]

http://www.edead.com (http://www.edead.com/)

[TonyL]

Yes there's a difference Butyl is better. Both in deadning quality, longevity and adhesion.

/Our Sponsor, Second Skin (http://www.secondskinaudio.com/) Makes the best products and has the best customer service in the industry. If you haven't yet commited to your supplier you should check them out. You'll be glad you did. Ask for Ant.

[TonyL]

A note about Fatmat. I've used it extensively on my own car. Two layers deep in some areas. It worked ok, But then I won some of Second Skins Damplifier pro in a contest on here. I installed it on my dads 57 truck. We put some on the inside of his roof panel. First we installed fatmat, knocked on the top, and then removed it and installed the damplifer pro.

Oh. My. God. what a difference. The butyl Damplifier was SO much better. And it's impossible to remove once on.

[claytonisbob]

I am a big fan of eDead. I have been buying it and audio parts from Elemental Designs for I think 4 or 5 years.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=1_24

eDead 80 is typically the same as Dynamat. They also make a thicker version, eDead 120 which is good for large flat areas like floorboards. 45 is pretty thin and you’d have to double up on it to add any real mass. Make sure you use a butyl and not asphalt mass loader type. The asphalt is pretty old technology.

The brush on stuff is also very good for hard contoured areas that are difficult to do with mat. I've used all three types of sound deadening they sell. The v4 is for noise above 100 Hz, as the mass loader stuff (mat) is only for low vibrations and bass. The v4 helps alot with road noise, exhaust, wind, and keeping music in the car. I did my roof with it, and a bit for the firewall. It's also fireproof I believe.

Sorry if I'm coming off with a sales pitch, I'm just happy with how my cars have turned out with it, and I really admire the company (very small, started by some cool guys in Iowa... growing every year).

[rocketrod]

Yes there's a difference Butyl is better. Both in deadning quality, longevity and adhesion.

/Our Sponsor, Second Skin (http://www.secondskinaudio.com/) Makes the best products and has the best customer service in the industry. If you haven't yet commited to your supplier you should check them out. You'll be glad you did. Ask for Ant.
What he said. Give them a call... FWIW I used Second Skin's products on my ride.

[shmoov69]

I got mine from second skin for the wagon. It is awesome! I always heard that the asphalt based smells a little when it gets hot in the sun, but I don't know for sure.

Heck, I would never smell it anyway, since I am a roofer and smell it all the time already!

[Mark Smith]

second skin is good stuff I used it all over the car.when you tap on my roof it sound like a fiberglass car.installed sticky stuff on all interior panels and then lyered the floor and fire wall with their hush mat.its like sitting in a new lexus.

[Restomod]

I have Fatmat in my Mustang and for the $ it works pretty good but I did have some problems with it sticking.

[73z-6sp]

I've used edead and second skin. I like second skin the best. I used it in my 66 Chevelle with a beastly big block and it is very quiet inside! I'm using their damplifier inside my 82 GT as well as the spectrum on the underside. It sounds very solid but I wont know how well until I drive it. (Ant is great by the way!)

[ponchopwr70]

I used second skin in my car and like it, very easy to install.

[BA.]

second skin is good stuff I used it all over the car.when you tap on my roof it sound like a fiberglass car.installed sticky stuff on all interior panels and then lyered the floor and fire wall with their hush mat.its like sitting in a new lexus.

It's funny that you mentioned HushMat because incidentally that's a separate company all-together. They do supply the OEM's........like Lexus. I bought a bunch for my Camaro but haven't driven it yet. Sticks very well though.

[slck6t9]

Thanks guys, looks like I need to look into the second skin.

[1969CamaroRS]

If you haven't read this review yet, you should check it out:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

[1badchevelle]

Anyone use R-blox?

[singer69]

Once again I have to say thanks for all the information and reviews here. You are all making things very easy for me to get started on my project! I like the Damplifier.

[Second Skin Rep]

Before I read this entire thread I see some suggestions that I have seen on many other forums over the years.
I realize I am the owner of Second Skin, so my opinion will be biased at best, but I do feel the need to bring up a few points that many other forums (mostly car audio related) have known for quite some times.

1. Asphalt is junk. Never use it, no matter what anyone else says.
It is toxic
It is not viscoelastic (wont convert vibrations effectivly)
It has a foul odor
It has a melting temperature o 180 degrees.
It has been known to be inconsistent at best - some batches are good up to 180 degrees, while other batches from the same manufcaturer will ,elt at 150. You never know.
Any company that is selling an asphalt product is buying it from a manufacture that makes flashing membranes for roofs. There is not a single sound deadening manufacturer in the industry that will use asphalt.

I can say all this because I used to sell an asphalt mat my self. about 7 years ago. I knew all the best manufacturers, all the bst formulations and all the tricks of the trade to TRY and get the stuff to work in cars.

I had a 30% return rate and ended ups spending $20k of my own money to reemburse or replace many a customers asphalt product.

Since we switched to butyl rubber 5 years ago or so, ther has not been a single reported case of product failure or user error.

Here are the important things to look for in a constraint layer damper:

The first is total weight - this is more important than total thickness. The thickness of a vibration damping mat will not play any roll in vibration damping performance. So when you are comparing products, make sure you are guaging the weight along with the price.
For example:

Dynamat Extreme
1.67 mm thick
.45 lbs per sq foot

Damplifier (not the pro version)
1.25 lbs per sq foot
.45 lbs per sq foot

Damplifier Pro
1.75 lbs per sq foot
.65 lbs per sq foot

As you can see, thickenss and weight between each product varys quite a bit.

Another thing to measure is the foil
The thicker the foil (constraining layer) the better the vibration reudction.

Dynamat Extreme
4 mils

Damplifier
4 mils

Damplifier Pro
6 mils

eDead
1 mil


Those are the big ones.
Here is a link to the sound deadener showdown (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/www.sounddeadenershowdown.com)
This guy did these tests in his garage and kitchen a few years ago.
Awesome job too!

We sent him samples out a few months back and are waiting for the new results to come out. That version of the site is kind of dated and many companies made changes to their sound deadening products once he exposed many of the myths and flaws.

We too changes ours a bit in the 3 years since that site came out.
If anyone has any questions, fell free to ask me
[email protected]

I am always happy to help, whether you use Second Skin (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/www.secondskinaudio.com) or not.

ANT

[claytonisbob]

I question whether the thickness of the constraining layer is important to absorbing vibrations. Typically its just a thick layer of aluminum foil thats sole purpose is to give the butyl something to stick to. The only real reason for a thicker constraining layer is for heat dispersion. A thinner foil layer makes installation easier, and allows for the use of more butyl rubber within the same thickness range. Example: Product A - 4mil constraining +61 mil butyl. Product B - 1mil comstraining +64mil butyl... both A & B are 65mil mat)

Being your sticking the mat to a metal surface, adding 4 mil of aluminum to it hardly seems like it would make a difference. I have installed both Dynamat and eDead, I do have to say I liked the way the Dynamat looked with the thicker aluminum layer (it gave it a harder surface... more difficult to dent with a fingernail) but the eDead doesnt cut your fingers when your installing it, and its easier to bend around contoured surfaces...

If I had to take my pick though... spray in. The next car I do will probably be sprayed with Second Skin or something similar.

[Second Skin Rep]

I question whether the thickness of the constraining layer is important to absorbing vibrations. Typically its just a thick layer of aluminum foil thats sole purpose is to give the butyl something to stick to.


The purpose of the foil is not to give the butyl somthing to stick to.
The foil is the CONSTRAINING LAYER in the phrase CONSTRAINT LAYER DAMPER.
The thicker or stronger the foil is, the better it constrains the adhesive layer below it. The more that layer is constrained the more vibrations are converted in to heat (usualy only 1 degree f. at most). This is a much more efficienct means of vibration reduction. The conversion of energy is where it is at!



The only real reason for a thicker constraining layer is for heat dispersion.

If that were the case the foil would not be referred to as a constraining layer. It would be called a heat sheild, or a heat dispersion layer, or something else.

Really, I am not making this stuff up. There is an entire science behind it.



A thinner foil layer makes installation easier

True, but even so, installing a thick foil layer is not difficult by any means.
If they have 2 hands, a 1st grader can do it with ease.
If you have a difficult time installing a product with a 6 mil foil but have no problem installing one with a 2 mil foil, you have much bigger problems than these.



A thinner foil layer makes installation easier and allows for the use of more butyl rubber within the same thickness range. Example: Product A - 4mil constraining +61 mil butyl. Product B - 1mil comstraining +64mil butyl... both A & B are 65mil mat)


Eh.. not really.

If a company wanted to invest in a thicker butyl adhesive layer, it could do so with very little price increase. About 2 - 3 cents per sq foot by adding butyl or for free by adding air pockets
Foil on the other hand costs about $.10 - .$15 psf for every mil you add past 3.
Skimping on the foil to add more butyl is not an efficient way to increase results.

I would rather have a product that was 40 mils thick with 6 mils of foil, than 60 mils thick with 4 mils of foil any day of the week. The foil is what does the work!

You want to know why Damplifier is 25% thinner than Dynamat Extreme and has the same exact weight?
The foil is the same thickness and weight so it can't be that.

1. Higher quality butyl has higher density mineral filler
2. Our anti-foaming agent forces air bubbles to the surface during the hot mixing process which make the product weigh more per gallon.

We can take a 100 gallon batch of butyl, remove the antifoaming agent, and leave the mixer on for a few hours extra and force more airbubbles in to the mix. This will increase the volume of the batch from 100 to 120 gallons. The weight however will not change. The extra volume comes from air! Then we could laminate the foil and wax paper and rapidly cool the batch, trapping the air bubbles in the mix and have a thicker product that weighs no more than a thinner product. Just looks thicker

Just like the bar of soap that floats in the bath tub. Higher air content makes it weigh less than the water does so it floats on the water. A cool selling point but, you actually get less soap per bar than with the soap that sinks in the water. All marketing!!



Being your sticking the mat to a metal surface, adding 4 mil of aluminum to it hardly seems like it would make a difference.

The foil is not doing much in terms of adding strength to the sheet metal. It is adding the strrength and stiffness to the butyl. Even though the difference between 4 and 6 mils might not be much tot he human eye, to the huma ear, it makes a huge difference.

Hope that helps!
ANT

[shmoov69]

Sounds like you are making a quality product, and not just selling a product Ant!! Kinda like the bags of ice you buy at the store, compare that ice to the ice your freezer makes and see which stays solid and colder longer in a glass of lemonade. Hint: the ice companies add air into it to make mass, not to make quality! I found this out by filling my water jugs at work AFTER we bought an ice machine after many years of buying it at the store.

BTW-Slick, Ant is a great guy to deal with and has a great product! Heck, he even saved me enough money to be able to buy the Damplifier Pro, which btw, is WELL WORTH THE EXTRA CASH!! He sent me a piece of the regular to compare it to, and the difference was alot more than I expected!

[Second Skin Rep]

You know.. I never thought about it like that.
The ice at the store is always cloudy and white, while ice at home is much more clear. Gott be the oxygen content.

Thanks for pointing that out.

ANT

[Declawed69]

You know.. I never thought about it like that.
The ice at the store is always cloudy and white, while ice at home is much more clear. Gott be the oxygen content.

Thanks for pointing that out.

ANT

Off topic but....
What ice are you guys getting? It's the opposite here store ice crystal clear, home ice is cloudy (we have hard water its the minerals/impurities that make it cloudy). Btw injecting air does nothing to adding mass, it changes volume, you can't weigh air regardless if it's suspended in something or not.

back on topic second skin is good stuff you wont be disappointed.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

I've lined my Nova with Damplifier and Over Kill. Great stuff. Two layers of the regular Damplifier work much better than one layer of Pro and it cost about the same for the two layers.

[jackfrost]

so Ant... given a clean slate car shell, what products would you use where?

spray on? mat? how much?

think average build - not high dollar, but not skimping either.

[Second Skin Rep]

so Ant... given a clean slate car shell, what products would you use where?

spray on? mat? how much?

think average build - not high dollar, but not skimping either.

Sorry it took me so long to get to this reply.
If I had a clean slate car shell.. Man!! That would be heaven!

So, Damplifier Pro (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/www.secondskinaudio.com/vibration-mat/damplifier-pro.php) in the majority of the interior.
Then go over all the voids and hard to reach spots with Spectrum (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/www.secondskinaudio.com/sound-deadener/spectrum.php), our vibration coating.

On the outside shell hit up a few patches of Damplifier Pro and then spray the Spectrum on all the voids.

On the inside, on top of the Damplifier Pro, go with a layer of Luxury Liner Pro (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/www.secondskinaudio.com/noise-barrier/Luxury-Liner-Pro.php). This will be the final nail in the sound deadening coffin.
You would also get a ton of thermal insulation as well.

You could do this all with:
100 sq feet Damplifier Pro
5 Gallons Spectrum
7 sheets Luxury Liner Pro

Hope that helps!

ANT