How long until the Big3 pull out of NASCAR?

[Boyd]

Just in the last month......

Honda shut down it's F1 team.
Honda shut down it's AMA team.
Porsche shut down it's ALMS team.
Audi shut down it's ALMS team.
Suzuki shut down it's WRC team.
Subaru shut down it's WRC team.


With the Big3 in such dire straits, why are they still spending millions on race programs in NASCAR? Especially when you consider that in the Sprint Cup series every team practically runs the same body -they just pass out new headlight and grille stickers before every race. Dealerships are virtually giving away full-size pickups, but the manufacturers are still spending millions in the NASCAR truck series.


Just doesn't make any sense to me.

[parsonsj]

Great question! Can the Sprint Cup survive with just Toyota and a bunch of non-sponsored COT's?

jp

[XLexusTech]

As long as they dont kill The Camaro I am ok with it

[Vegas69]

That is the big 3 clientele. They may as well close up shop.

[rob07002]

I think France and the NASCAR brass have stated that they are concerned about costs to the sponsors and manufacturers, ie. they are worried about sponsors and Ford, Chevy, Mopar, pulling out or limiting investment, but they have been very cautious about how they say it and how much emphasis they give it.

I think we will see a very different NASCAR in the coming years.

[Mike Holleman]

I think France and the NASCAR brass have stated that they are concerned about costs to the sponsors and manufacturers, ie. they are worried about sponsors and Ford, Chevy, Mopar, pulling out or limiting investment, but they have been very cautious about how they say it and how much emphasis they give it.

I think we will see a very different NASCAR in the coming years.
You will very likely see Chrysler out soon. If Nascar continues requiring non production engine designs the cost will doom Ford and Chev. Seems to me it would be much cheaper to go back to a production engine. Just limit ci's and require an engine that is on the street.

[Damn True]

You will very likely see Chrysler out soon. If Nascar continues requiring non production engine designs the cost will doom Ford and Chev. Seems to me it would be much cheaper to go back to a production engine. Just limit ci's and require an engine that is on the street.

That is the current format on the Daytona Prototypes.

[WILWAXU]

Ford already has pulled sponsorship from the truck series and reduced it's sponsorship for the other 2 car series.

Chevy is talking about dropping it's sponsorship of the Daytona 500.

[trapin]

How long before they pull out of NASCAR (aka The Cookie Cutter Go-Kart Series)?

NOT SOON ENOUGH!

I would rather my company competed in sanctioned event with REAL Stock Cars rather than the fake Car Of Tommorow with it's fake body, fake engine, fake chassis and fake...fake...fake...fake...fake...fake...fake...f ake...fake...






.........fake.

[rob07002]

Tony, you really need to start speaking your mind. These subtle, hidden messages you put out there are hard to interpret.


ok, you know I'm with ya!

[trapin]

:smoke:

[Damn True]

IMO NASCAR is a complete waste for them beyond the TV ads shown during commercial breaks.

There is minimal technology transfer, and as a marketing tool I really fail to see where there is an ROI except in terms of brand recognition.

Seems to me there is much more hay to be made by focusing on road-racing (Grand-Am, Koni Challenge, ALMS, LeMans, NASA, SCCA etc) and drag racing.

[Jim Nilsen]

I quit watching Nascar when the old thing of race it on Sunday buy it on Monday was a thing of the past.

Why do they still have the right to call them STOCK CARS when there is nothing stock about them, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

You can feed a lot of people with the money spent there and never miss it. In fact you can probably find how many people it can feed for starters just by looking at food concessions at a racetrack and then go further.

It will never matter to me and hasn't for over 30 years.

[Vegas69]

So your die hard Earnhardt fan won't care if Chevy gets out of the sport. Not buying it. I wonder how many GM sales are procured in this fashion. I bet the roi is better than we think. This also spills over into the performance parts.

[Weldon0405]

IMO NASCAR is a complete waste for them beyond the TV ads shown during commercial breaks.

There is minimal technology transfer, and as a marketing tool I really fail to see where there is an ROI except in terms of brand recognition.

Seems to me there is much more hay to be made by focusing on road-racing (Grand-Am, Koni Challenge, ALMS, LeMans, NASA, SCCA etc) and drag racing.


:idea: X2

[Damn True]

So your die hard Earnhardt fan won't care if Chevy gets out of the sport. Not buying it. I wonder how many GM sales are procured in this fashion. I bet the roi is better than we think. This also spills over into the performance parts.


Would Earnhardt lose an appreciable number of fans if he had moved to Roush instead of Hendrick? No. IMO most NASCAR fans are connected to the persona of a driver, not the brand of car he happens to be driving.

I'd wager Tony Stewart didn't lose an appreciable amount of money on license gear when Gibbs went to Toyota.

Performance parts? Really? Where is the crossover between NASCAR and the marketplace at large? Beyond motor oil and gasoline the stuff they use is often not even available to the public, let alone attainable.




Oh and FWIW, Subaru is not pulling out of WRC. They were essentially forced out by a rules change mandating a spec-transverse gearbox that is incompatible with their engine and chassis.

[Vegas69]

I grew up in the Midwest and let me tell you. Earnhardt fans are driving lots and lots of Chevys. LOL I agree the technologies crossing over is a farce, but name recognition is business 101. You are an Earnhardt fan so you drive a chevy truck and race a chevy car. Whether you realize it or not, brand recognition plays a huge factor in what you buy everyday. The nascar fan base is a huge percentage of the die hard buy American car population. I think advertising is another arena where American auto manufacturers are getting there but whooped. Racing is about the best thing they have going. I guess when you are losing money on every car the ROI can't be to good. LOL

[Brandon Miller]

Nascar is the largest marketing media for the Big 3. Their ROI from marketing and sponsorship in Nascar is greater than any other form of advertising. I've read those facts, just can't remember where.

[WILWAXU]

LMAO! What a bunch of haters!

Where do you think the majority of small block technology has came from for past 30 plus years?

[Damn True]

LMAO! What a bunch of haters!

Where do you think the majority of small block technology has came from for past 30 plus years?

On an engine format GM hasn't put in a production vehicle in over ten years.

[WILWAXU]

On an engine format GM hasn't put in a production vehicle in over ten years.Really.. what is the LS motors then?

[Damn True]

Really.. what is the LS motors then?

Unless I am mistaken the SB2 and R07 bear little to no similarity to an LSx.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[KeislerGene]

[quote=rob07002;470452]Tony, you really need to start speaking your mind. These subtle, hidden messages you put out there are hard to interpret.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Boyd]

NASCAR became more about the driver than the car a loooooooong time ago. Stewart didn't lose any fans when he switched from Chevy to Toyota, no one gives a crap who drives what anymore - they are all driving the same generic car anyway.

[WILWAXU]

Unless I am mistaken the SB2 and R07 bear little to no similarity to an LSx.

Correct me if I am wrong.You don't think some of that knowledge makes it back to production engineering? You think the LS1 was built in a vacuum? If so, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[trapin]

You don't think some of that knowledge makes it back to production engineering? You think the LS1 was built in a vacuum? If so, we'll have to agree to disagree.
If you're telling me the GEN III was born from the SB2.....I'm gonna need to see some hard copy because of all the literature I've read about the GEN III, I've not heard the NASCAR influence mentioned even ONCE.

Sorry but NASCAR is a farce. I hate what's happened to it.

[WILWAXU]

If you're telling me the GEN III was born from the SB2.....I'm gonna need to see some hard copy because of all the literature I've read about the GEN III, I've not heard the NASCAR influence mentioned even ONCE.

Sorry but NASCAR is a farce. I hate what's happened to it.Umm.. where did I say the LS series was born from the SB2?

I do believe that port/combustion chamber knowledge (along with other stuff) learned in NASCAR has made into the more than a few production engines, including the LS series.

[Jim Nilsen]

Umm.. where did I say the LS series was born from the SB2?

I do believe that port/combustion chamber knowledge (along with other stuff) learned in NASCAR has made into the more than a few production engines, including the LS series.

I'm not sure about something here and maybe someone can enlighten me. Did Warren Johnson ever have anything to do with Nascar engine developement? And didn't he have a lot to do with LS technology or did he come in later to just do the LSX block?

What goes into production is information taken from everywhere if you are a smart designer but to really think Nascar has that much overall infuence over engine tech is to me is a bit based on faith and bias as I would expect any Nascar fan to be. We need Nascar fans to keep the tracks in business and a lot of peoples jobs just like we need American cars to keep people in job's.

AMERICA NEEDS JOBS

Noone is losing money over my Nascar $$$$$ because it isn't there and hasn't ever been. But the people that do support it are a different group of people and they do have values that are good for America. Does the average Nascar fan think GM and the others need to be bailed out?

It's a hard road for the entertainment industry and we will see what happens when the jobs get cut and people don't go just because they can't ,not because they don't want to. Seats might get vacant but merchandise might go up and the sponsors probably make more royalties on merchandise I would think. And the last I heard the government had bailout money approved for Nascar already.

It's going to be interesting to say the least and Nascar fans are a very passionate group to get riled up.

[EPYON]

Just a side note : Dale SR. started out in the big time in a THUNDERBIRD . The FORD Fusion isn't made in the U.S.A . The Toyota CAMRY is . I don't want to see DODGE leave again . But they don't know when to slow down the production line on there good cars .

[WILWAXU]

Nevermind. I now remember why I stay of out the "lounge" on other websites.

[Otto-813]

How long before they pull out of NASCAR (aka The Cookie Cutter Go-Kart Series)?

NOT SOON ENOUGH!

I would rather my company competed in sanctioned event with REAL Stock Cars rather than the fake Car Of Tommorow with it's fake body, fake engine, fake chassis and fake...fake...fake...fake...fake...fake...fake...f ake...fake...






.........fake.11ty billion times agreed!!!!!!