Big horsepower pro touring

[dmc69]

Guys, new to the forum, ive been looking around and wondered why most all pt guys have big horsepower/big cube inch engines. Is there a reason for this preference or is it just a person to person thing? I would like to hear everyones thoughts.

[Young Gun]

bigger is better...

[class67]

What are you considering big cubic inches? most of us here have small blocks...lol

[dmc69]

I guess im talking more about the big horsepower most of the project update post i see are 500+ hp.

[Flash68]

I don't think a lot of us here consider 500hp to be "big horsepower."

[Vegas69]

In my mind, I want to be on par with the baddest super cars. That takes a minimum of 500hp nowadays. That's why I have 600.:1st:

[Young Gun]

big horsepower is 4 digits...most cars you get today have no power at all so I can see how 500 seems like a lot

[WS6]

It's easy to make that type power. A lot of builds are based on LSx engines and 500+hp is cake with those engines. Also, in keeping with being cutting edge and using the latest technology, a lot of the cars use turbos on whatever engine they may be building. If your turbo V8 isn't making at least 500hp, you did something wrong. It's part of the total package I guess you could say. Not only do the people here desire for their cars to handle well, brake well, and look good, they aren't interested in having a Chrysler 300C SRT8 blow them off the road and they'd like to run against modern Corvettes too. So, to complete all aspects of the build, you need power and lots of it.

Keep in mind also that a lot of the high profile cars are being built to be shown by either the owner or the shop doing the building. Big numbers grab your attention more. I'm willing to bet most of us normal guys going the cheap touring route aren't over 500hp for the most part. I personally will be mid to upper 400s with lots of torque at the wheels. Those are just my goals and I think that'll be plenty for me. I'm not looking to show off my car at a big national show either.

[novaderrik]

what race car driver/owner or whatever was it that said that if you leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner the entrance of the next one, then you've got almost enough power?
since Pro Touring cars are kind of wanna be race cars for the street, i think that this theory might still apply...

[thedugan]

was that Mark Donahue that said that?

[Restomod]

Keeping up with the Jones's

[Flash68]

Big horsepower is in the eye of the beholder. Depends on what you are used to driving. Some people will scare themselves and their passengers with 400-500hp. Some people are utterly bored with 500hp like myself. It is a sickness and it just makes you want more and more!

[icebird84]

0 to 450 hp small
451 to 900 hp normal
901 to 1400 big
1401 < up big fun

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

why big horsepower if you cant hook it or turn it?

600 is a cap for me.. if that IS big horsepower.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Anything past 600 is really hard to manage, but can be managed...........kinda!

[Jim Nilsen]

I build my engines to have as much torque from 2500rpm to 5000rpm as I can get and have never even worried about horsepower. Torque is what gives you all of the acceleration and seat of the pants feel. It is also what gives you mileage. What you get for horsepower is just an added plus up on top if you go past 6000rpm and there are only a few engines that still make more torque after 5250rpm but there are some that do. Most engines that make more torque after 5250 rpm are forced induction.

I like the idea of 600 lbft of torque and if you get that much horsepower to go with it then that is great.

With the right gearing and areodynamics you can go 200mph with 500 hp in most cases and that all has to be in by 6000rpm from what the big guys have always said.

To have a lot more than you need is really nice to think about if you can learn how to tame it but my problem would be how to feed it along with coming up with enough money to be able to buy it to begin with.

I am looking at 350hp to 400hp to start out with and when I get the handle on that and the car can hold up without breaking then the supercharger or the turbos will be added.

I have had this concept for many years and I don't see me changing it just because others are doing it.

Now if I ever play and win the lotto I might become a changed man and get just a little stupid with the horsepower.

I always would put, "may the horsepower be with you" at the end of all my post but in reality I should have been putting ,


" May the Torquepower be with You"

[Nine Ball]

Anything past 500 rwhp on regular radial tires is a handful on the street. But, I prefer 550-650 rwhp daily drivers. I can control traction with this new invention called the throttle pedal. It seems to work great too.

I don't consider anything less than 1,000 as "big HP".

[OLDFLM]

I build my engines to have as much torque from 2500rpm to 5000rpm as I can get and have never even worried about horsepower. Torque is what gives you all of the acceleration and seat of the pants feel.


Sounds like you need to build a Pontiac to me! :twothumbs

[EPYON]

I'v always had V-8's , so driving around a 500hp car in bad weather is nothing . I had one car that I drove around all the time with 900Hp . But then again I'm not driving big block Fords anymore , just mod motors now . I feel like a girl only having 300Hp to the wheels. DMV in Las Vegas sucks , so I can't put in a 460 here . I can make it run cleaner then the stock engine , but they still have there heads up there butt's .

[shmoov69]

One word.......... Testicles!
LOL!

Edit. I don't think Mary has the "bigger is better" problem, but I could be wrong!

[Roadbuster]

Most of the late 60's muscle cars had factory engines that were rated in the 350 to 450 hp range and usually 450+ lb ft of torque.

With that as a start, add 40 years of technology and a modified engine should exceed the factory numbers and get into the 500s. With forced induction - Check out Nelson Racing Engines.

New engines like the LS7 give you 505 horsepower @ 6200 rpm; 475 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4800 rpm (Google) so power can be had if you go this route too.

:)

Jon

[Bow Tie 67]

I'm shooting for around 500 hp at the flywheel. I tend to push my car to the limit on the track, without a dedicated track suspension and full roll cage anything more will get me into trouble that much quicker. Once I feel I have the next years combination dialed in and can use it to its fullest, then and only then, will I contemplate upping the ante'.

[viper11]

why???? Because we can!!

[fishtail8]

I know of alot of guys who just want to be able to quote a big number, the guys who race dyno numbers instead of the car. Then when you finally get them to the track, their 500hp car get's beat by a 400hp car. Most people don't NEED it, they WANT it...

[PARKERRS]

I've ran at RTTH twice and at the Year One track days at Road Atlanta regularly. My car has just over 400hp, and in the curves I run mid pack in autocross and on the big track I can run at the front of the pack except on the end of the straights. I found out part of the reason for this when riding in the new second gen. DSE test car at RTTH this year, HorsePower, plain and simple. They have enough with around 600 or more at the crank to rocket between the turns and walk off in the straights on the big track. Regardless of how well it handles or how well you drive the bigger horse and torque engine can compensate for some lack of skill and or walk off and leave you in the hands of a good driver.

Tommy

[Restomod]

I know of alot of guys who just want to be able to quote a big number, the guys who race dyno numbers instead of the car. Then when you finally get them to the track, their 500hp car get's beat by a 400hp car. Most people don't NEED it, they WANT it...

NOBODY needs that much HP.....30hp will get you to 55mph good enough.

[Damn True]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:


The Audi R8 that won Le Mans in '05 had 520hp. It had large x huge gumball slicks, positive downforce and Tom Kristenson (sp?) at the wheel they still had wheelspin and they were still a handfull.
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/audir8-01.html

Your car will not have great big Michilen slicks, will not have downforce to speak of and will certainly not have Kristenson at the wheel.

[wicked68]

I've ran at RTTH twice and at the Year One track days at Road Atlanta regularly. My car has just over 400hp, and in the curves I run mid pack in autocross and on the big track I can run at the front of the pack except on the end of the straights. I found out part of the reason for this when riding in the new second gen. DSE test car at RTTH this year, HorsePower, plain and simple. They have enough with around 600 or more at the crank to rocket between the turns and walk off in the straights on the big track. Regardless of how well it handles or how well you drive the bigger horse and torque engine can compensate for some lack of skill and or walk off and leave you in the hands of a good driver.

Tommy


very true - you will see bigger hp really come into its own above 60 mph where you can literally leave people in the rear view in 3rd gear.

I have guys beat me off the line regularly but the big hp catches them and trounces them down the track. you can especially feel it about half way down the track when the guy that was besid you the whole was sees you walking off.

[Gonzostyle]

Personally I would rather have a light car with 350hp than a heavy car with 1000hp........

reduce weight before adding HP. You will get away with a lot more and be just as fast (usually)....

-Jeremie

[tracar91]

I know of alot of guys who just want to be able to quote a big number, the guys who race dyno numbers instead of the car. Then when you finally get them to the track, their 500hp car get's beat by a 400hp car. Most people don't NEED it, they WANT it...


Here Here! My thoughts exactly. Want to go fast? build a 400horse motor and spend all of the rest of the money on improving the driver!

[chicane67]

A simple statement sums it all up...

Common sense and logic.


Anything more than about 575-650 rwhp is useless unless you cruze Bonneville or BlackRock. Or more simply stated... if you cant hook it up, turn it or stop it... you're a dead man.

[Charley Lillard]

I have 3 straight track cars. One is a Panoz with a 435 hp 351. The others are 65-6 Mustangs, 520 hp and 580 hp. There is no better feeling than entering the long straight and hauling ass. There is no worse feeling than entering the long straight and not being able to catch the guy you are chasing. All three cars work well in the turns but the Panoz pisses me off in the long straight. Not logic, just what it feels like in real life...Panoz has a 6400 chip in the MSD, 66 Shelby GT350 will pull till 8000...ahhh what a feeling.

[Damn True]

Charlie, just out of morbid curiosity, what is the weight on each of the 3?

[454bug]

Personally I would rather have a light car with 350hp than a heavy car with 1000hp........

reduce weight before adding HP. You will get away with a lot more and be just as fast (usually)....

-Jeremie

I WANT MY CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!!!

I'm planning on 2,600 pounds and 850hp... (probably 700 rwhp) :smoke:


Nimble AND Powerfull... AND NORMALLY ASPIRATED!!! :evil:

[PARKERRS]

I always thought handling would outperform horsepower, and it does when comparing a first gen. Camaro to a Subaru WRX. That isn't the comparison amongst this group though. At the last two RTTH we have seen that in cars of comparable weight and pt build style that big horsepower (500 or more) has dominated in the competition. The one exception is the 66 vette of Brian Finch, this is a very lightwieght package yet you could say that it packs plenty of power with the LS(6?) under the hood.

Tommy

[JEFFTATE]

500 HP seems to be the benchmark nowdays.
I want a 500hp LS of some kind for my car.

[Charley Lillard]

Charlie, just out of morbid curiosity, what is the weight on each of the 3?
Panoz is 2700 lbs and I think the 65 Mustang is I think 2800 and the Shelby is somewhere near there.

[Serpa69]

I don’t really think that most people that build ridiculous horsepower like turbo charged; super charged cars or nitrous cars are really that interested in road course type performance. Every time I attend a road course event the talk is handling and tires and the turbo and supercharged car guys are the ones breaking stuff or spinning out in the turns because of the zero to holy crap torque curve. The fact is 500 hp is a ton, and I agree that coming out of the final turn at VIR for the big straight sucks if you do not have power but come, on most people and cars cant handle these crazy numbers people claim there putting down. Give me a reliable, light, well engineered small block that is fuel injected, and well cooled I will have more fun.

[Neil B]

After many years of having 400-500hp (flywheel) cars, I recently purchased a 650rwhp supercharged Corvette. The difference in power is huge. You have to really respect the car and it's capabilities in order to stay out of trouble. I never thought I would say that a car has too much power, but 650 at the wheels is more than enough.

[neki67]

Anybody remember the Optima Challenge? The winning car was only driving on 7 cylinders so it was below 400 rwhp.

I also remember a twin turbo Camaro using only 7 out of 8 and nobody noticed till it was put on the dyno.

So basically I agree with Tracar91's and Serpa69's comments.

[BossaNova]

500 HP seems to be the benchmark nowdays.
I want a 500hp LS of some kind for my car.

Yeah! What he said!

[watahyahknow]

i can only agree that anything above 500 hp will make handling verry difficult .

the reason why i whent with turbo's is that i can turn the pressure down and hopefully make more usuable power for slalomracing and the sort .
look at F bomb it can make 1500 hp but they turned it down to 800 and it still makes 1000 feet burnouts on those realy big reartires .

i think loosing weight out of the vehicle gives better handling than adding cubes to the engine

[wicked68]

something else you need to look at is how you build the engine - how much will it support - and how much are you running it at. I would rather have a car that will support 1700 and is detuned and running very comfortably at 1000 or less than one that is buit to handle 500 and is running at 450. you can always detune a car to wherever you want - especially on a blower or turbo motor and then on a drag track spin it up for more hp which gets you down the line faster.

I do think 700 rwhp is a great number though for drag and track as an all around combo.

[cantvalve16]

While I have never driven anything with more than 400 hp, I can say that any more power than you can hook up is a waste. Why have a 1000hp car that run's 12.50's and leaves you doing smokey donuts on the road course?

[Vegas69]

Because you can....that's why.:spam:

[victionone]

If you want big HP I would go more towards a modern prostreet build.

[Josh69]

I built mine for around 450-475hp, I will find out on the dyno soon enough....in the meantime what I have found out is that it's not enough and what felt fast the first few weeks, is merely adequate now. Now I have to buy a blower! Sorry..now I WANT to buy a blower! ;)

This is just like when I bought some DD's for a g/f...when they roll out that tray with the sizes, you might as well get the biggest ones and have them overfilled, cause you don't want to spend the $$ twice! Well, looking back, she's not the one I married so I probably shouldn't have spent it in the first place! HAHAHA!!!

[wicked68]

While I have never driven anything with more than 400 hp, I can say that any more power than you can hook up is a waste. Why have a 1000hp car that run's 12.50's and leaves you doing smokey donuts on the road course?


why do all guys want a 10 inch weenie when only 7 inches will fit in 90% of women?

I think that explains it.

[mayhem148]

takes a lot of money to make 1000 horsepower. if you settle with 500 and put the money into chassis and suspension you would probably run faster on the track or salom. you can make 400 to 500 horses pretty cheap compared to 15 years ago.

[Flash68]

only 7 inches will fit in 90% of women?


You must like petite asian women like me. LOL