What was this all about?

[Brandon Miller]

Notice the dangling tag in the back.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nine Ball]

It is just a crate body, like the Dynacorn 69 Camaro. They got Ford to license it, in order to call it a Mustang.

[moreHP]

Did you look at the fitment of the parts? I guess they either spent no time trying or it was as good as it was going to get without major surgery. Also the welds holding the front subframe together looked like bird turds with no penetration at all. We thought it was pretty poor quality for the money they want for the body.

[maldo]

Did you look at the fitment of the parts? I guess they either spent no time trying or it was as good as it was going to get without major surgery. Also the welds holding the front subframe together looked like bird turds with no penetration at all. We thought it was pretty poor quality for the money they want for the body.


lol i was just going to say that .... cant believe they would not even try to make it the parts fit better ... :hand:

[wiedemab]

yeah - you can tell from the pics that the decklid doesn't fit very well and the door gaps aren't good either.

I still think I'd rather start with a rusty body - but I don't know.

[dhutton]

Panel fit does look bad but I wonder how much of that is due to the fact that it is hanging from those cables. At least some of the door fit issues may be due to this...

Don

[GetMore]

I remember somebody (possibly my boss, a body man) telling me the Camaro bodies are like that as well. They make them just as well as the factory did back in the day.

Personally, I would like to see someone come up with repro bodies using modern manufacturing methods. There have been some major upgrades in strength and quality over the years and it'd be nice to get those benefits when redoing an old car.

[Restomod]

I think that is the Dynacorn 69, right???

[Paul_J]

Personally, I would like to see someone come up with repro bodies using modern manufacturing methods. There have been some major upgrades in strength and quality over the years and it'd be nice to get those benefits when redoing an old car.
Reply With Quote

They did, it's called the Challenger. LOL Other than that I think the hobby will be out of luck getting a high quality body at a price point people will be willing to pay.

[Otto-813]

I always wondered why the OEs didn't start reproducing body's and things themselves? Not enough money in it for the time invested? I mean they are the original ones that made the stuff...

[ProdigyCustoms]

The body hanging like that is causing the problem. I looked over the body on the floor and liked it. We just painted a Camaro shell and liked it to all thing considered.

The Mustang is a neat one, has my wheels spinning

[Restomod]

Personally, I would like to see someone come up with repro bodies using modern manufacturing methods. There have been some major upgrades in strength and quality over the years and it'd be nice to get those benefits when redoing an old car.
Reply With Quote

They did, it's called the Challenger. LOL Other than that I think the hobby will be out of luck getting a high quality body at a price point people will be willing to pay.

The 05 up Mustang to!

[BonzoHansen]

IIRC the 1st Camaro body they displayed had somrthing dumb wrong too, like the tail pan was installed wrong or something.

[trapin]

I haven't actually seen a Dynocorn body up close but I've heard that some of the first gen Camaro shells had issues with fit and finish. My question is...how are they manufacturing these body panels? The old fashioned way or is CAD somehow involved?

If there is CAD involved....how the hell can there be any issues with fit and finish. If you're using the proper system...you have a powerful tool right there that can virtually re-engineer the entire fit and finish of these classic designs. Either they're using a bad system or the CAD guy has little automotive manufacturing experience.

Seriously I don't mean to brag (but I'm going to anyway) but get me the scan data and some relatively good criteria off the model in a UG application and you can tell your body guy he'll only be needing his paint gun for this one.

:)

[Jim Nilsen]

I saw it last year and it looked a bit better than it does now. Unless it is a different one than was hanging this year. I don't know how many shows it goes to and how well it gets taken care of but it could be that it just is tweaked out from it.

When I saw the one last year it just looked like the guys who put it together were very rushed. As someone stated, the welds looked like crap. Which is a good indicator that they weren't too talented. Why they let it happen this way is bad for them but if you are going to buy one maybe they make excuses about it.

At least it looked like it could be done better if it had more care on the one last year. I'm not trying to make excuses for them but we can't even get people to ship a part without screwing it up these days. It all looks like more misalignment than parts that aren't made right. Heck some people can't even align doors and fenders to gap properly on original cars because of bad skills.

I'm with you on this one Frank !

[Restomod]

I haven't actually seen a Dynocorn body up close but I've heard that some of the first gen Camaro shells had issues with fit and finish. My question is...how are they manufacturing these body panels? The old fashioned way or is CAD somehow involved?
:)

I think/remember reading the first Camaro/Mustang bodies were stamped in China. Not sure where the later ones were made at.

[astroracer]

I'll agree with Tony up to a point. The CAD data is important but the stamping die construction and quality is key to fit and finish. If the stamping dies are junk... the parts will be junk. These things are made in China so I expect there is a lot of room for improvement on the dies.
Mark

[trapin]

I'll agree with Tony up to a point. The CAD data is important but the stamping die construction and quality is key to fit and finish. If the stamping dies are junk... the parts will be junk. These things are made in China so I expect there is a lot of room for improvement on the dies.
Mark
That's very true. But if that's the case, find an American company to cut the dies. If they ask an exorbinate amount more than the Chinese, tell them no. I would have to think in this economy a die manufacturer is going to take on any work he can get and be a little more flexible on the price.

That is....if there are even die makers in the U.S anymore.

[Twentyover]

Don't bank on US tooling companies being any better. A LONG time ago, I was working for a Class 8 truck manufacturer located on the West Coast. First major Cab redesign in 20 years. We couldn't get any two to go together the same way.

Entire cab was based on the Nosebeam, a .060 or so thick stamping of 3003 H14 aluminum. Found out the no two nosebeams were alike. The beam was made on a progressive PBF die, and the toolmaker had 'forgotten' to harden the steel. Idiot set us back about 6 months.

I'm going to guess that placses like Dynacom don't really have an understanding of how to build a shell on a production basis. These guys will sell what? maybe a couple thousand shells a year? Don't think they have the throw weight to return a die to the tooling house until it's actually corrected. Don't know that I believe they know what it takes to fix it. Don't know that I believe they know what it takes to fixture for assembly. Don't know that I think they have the capital to do it even if they did.

Building cars today is not an inexpensive venture. Even if using single sided tools, it's pretty $$$$ intensive.

If someone wants a new shell, he may be willing to fix or overlook poor panel gaps. Or he may not know any better. Going to the Grand National Roadster show with a compadre in Cali for a couple years ago last century, he'd stop at a car, and point out that one headlight was lower than the other, stuff was unequal side to side. Don't know if the owners accepted it, or didn't realize it

[wmhjr]

Good die making is an extremely expensive proposition. Even new car manufacturers are very careful in trying to minimize die fabrication because of the very high cost. And they sell those "parts" on a very large scale. Retooling older parts with new dies is certainly possible, but the investment would really put most major body panels well out of the price range of the overwhelming majority of us.

That doesn't even open the discussion to the fact that "new" car dies are not typically handmade anymore. That's one of the reasons that new car fitment tolerances are so much tighter.

It's REALLY expensive to produce dies.

[twosaturns]

soooo, let me get this straight (pardon the pun):
you want new steel bodies for classic cars, you want them straight and perfect, you want them made in the US, AND you want them cheap?

please.

the American consumer has guaranteed that sustainable domestic manufacturing is not possible. you cannot have high labor costs (or even a living wage) AND have cheap commodities. they are by neccessity mutally exclusive, esp since this cottage industry doesn't have the advantage of economy of scale.
the industry should be happy that ANYONE is even producing replacement body shells.

[Restomod]

I personally would rather have rusty factory sheetmetal that fits and fix the rust... BUT you have to have panels to repair the rust......visious cycle.....

[oestek]

Good die making is an extremely expensive proposition. Even new car manufacturers are very careful in trying to minimize die fabrication because of the very high cost. And they sell those "parts" on a very large scale. Retooling older parts with new dies is certainly possible, but the investment would really put most major body panels well out of the price range of the overwhelming majority of us.

That doesn't even open the discussion to the fact that "new" car dies are not typically handmade anymore. That's one of the reasons that new car fitment tolerances are so much tighter.

It's REALLY expensive to produce dies.

And plastic is much easier and cheaper to make repeatable panels that fit with precision.

[Twentyover]

And plastic is much easier and cheaper to make repeatable panels that fit with precision.

No, we'll have the same problems if and when plastic cars are candidates for restoration/PT. Only benefit will be is that it won't be a RUSTY old platic panel- it will be a warped old plastic panel. There won't be a need to make new warped plastic panels

[minendrews68]

I haven't actually seen a Dynocorn body up close but I've heard that some of the first gen Camaro shells had issues with fit and finish. My question is...how are they manufacturing these body panels? The old fashioned way or is CAD somehow involved?

If there is CAD involved....how the hell can there be any issues with fit and finish. If you're using the proper system...you have a powerful tool right there that can virtually re-engineer the entire fit and finish of these classic designs. Either they're using a bad system or the CAD guy has little automotive manufacturing experience.

Seriously I don't mean to brag (but I'm going to anyway) but get me the scan data and some relatively good criteria off the model in a UG application and you can tell your body guy he'll only be needing his paint gun for this one.

:)

UG? Hey Trapin, have you ever used Unigraphics?
Carl

[Brandon Miller]

UG? Hey Trapin, have you ever used Unigraphics?
Carl

UG = Unigraphics

[trapin]

UG? Hey Trapin, have you ever used Unigraphics?
Carl
That's what we call Unigraphics; UG. I've been on it for 11 years.

[Rhino]

No, we'll have the same problems if and when plastic cars are candidates for restoration/PT. Only benefit will be is that it won't be a RUSTY old platic panel- it will be a warped old plastic panel. There won't be a need to make new warped plastic panels

Plastic gets brittle with age. It may not rust, but it will have it's problems.
When comparing the complexity of injection molding to die stamping sheet metal, the molding process will win almost every time. Even the cheapest of Taiwanese crap seems to be molded correctly lately. It seems to be a much more exact process.
Something else to keep in mind is that many of the issues we're currently dealing with are not due solely to improper parts, but also the extremely loose tolerances of the '60's and 40+ years worth of abuse and neglect. That's no excuse for improperly manufactured parts, but it's hard to place the full blame on them.
As long as you have good molds, along side with todays tighter tolerances, replacement parts for todays cars should fit better than our reproduction parts of '60's cars.

[minendrews68]

Hey Tony,

I used it for about 7-8 years at the company I used to work for. That company was Nibco Inc. We made steel valves, and pvc valves. Their home office is in Elkhart In. As everyone knows I'm in Arkansas. Did you ever go to St Louis for any training. I've been a couple of times. I'll have to tell you some of the stories about the training. We had a ball.

[wmhjr]

Plastic gets brittle with age. It may not rust, but it will have it's problems.
When comparing the complexity of injection molding to die stamping sheet metal, the molding process will win almost every time. Even the cheapest of Taiwanese crap seems to be molded correctly lately. It seems to be a much more exact process.
Something else to keep in mind is that many of the issues we're currently dealing with are not due solely to improper parts, but also the extremely loose tolerances of the '60's and 40+ years worth of abuse and neglect. That's no excuse for improperly manufactured parts, but it's hard to place the full blame on them.
As long as you have good molds, along side with todays tighter tolerances, replacement parts for todays cars should fit better than our reproduction parts of '60's cars.

+1

Some of our injection molding manufacturing is in China. It's a top notch facility, great conditions and excellent conditions - not some slum facility. Products produced there are at least the equal of any US based injection molding. It's just a lower overhead and easier to engineer process. Way too many differences to compare them. Steel stamping is much more difficult to do well, and the dies don't last nearly as long. Far more expensive.