Pics & Video of my problems with Edelbrock Closed Loop Function

[carpedm]

I have the 1st gen Pro-Flo system #3550. It was all stock until recently I added an Innovate Wideband O2 sensor to assist with tuning. I had it all working correctly with the Innovate sending the wideband AFR to the wideband guage and then the narrow band signal simulation being sent to the Edelbrock ECU. This worked for about 1 week with the Edelbrock system recognizing the simulated narrow band signal just fine. I turned off the closed loop function to fine tune the driveability problems I was having as per the instructions, but when I went to turn back on the closed loop function the Edelbrock Controller rich/green/amber light is not working correctly nor will it go into closed loop mode. Here are some pics & video of what it is doing..
Here is a pic of a simplistic narrow band setup that programed for some test value voltage output from the Innovate narrow band signal wire
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Here is the AFR guage
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Here is the voltage output which is about perfect as I had it setup to output a constant 0.4 volts for anything leaner than 14.3 AFR as per the 1st pic.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
So all appears good with the output signal from the Innovate simulated narrow band signal and the voltage output is within the operating specs (0.35V to 1.1V) as per the Edelbrock handbook.
In the next video you will see with closed loop turned "off" and the AFR switch point set at 14.3 that all appears good. The Edelbrock controller will display a red/green light correctly based on the voltage output. There is a slight response delay between the controller and the AFR guage but it does indicate correctly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t139/69LUCFR/Vette/O2%20Sensor/?action=view&current=O2Sensor010.flv)
In the next video its starts out with the closed loop turned off and then when I turn it "on" the red/green/amber light indicator will only flash "green"...no other color. When I turn the closed loop "off" the red/green light will come back on and switch like it should based on the voltage output.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t139/69LUCFR/Vette/O2%20Sensor/?action=view&current=O2Sensor011.flv)
It is like the Edelbrock rich/lean function does not want to work when the closed loop is turned "on". I do not get an "amber/yellow" light at all which before I use to get this yellow light between the red/green flashes. I do not get an error message from the Edelbrock controller saying the O2 sensor is bad and according to the tests/check procedure & Innovate indicator light my wideband O2 sensor is working just fine. So I am thinking that I may have fried my Edelbrock ECU as at 1 time I mistakenly programmed the wideband output to go to the Edelbrock ECU so I was sending about 5V signal vs. a max of 1.1V that traditionally would have been recieved to the ECU.
Lastly...when I have closed loop turned off and disconnect the narrow band signal wire to the Edelbrock ECU leaving everything else hooked up believe it or not the light will flash green/red somehow and when I turn closed loop on it will only flash green...similar to what its doing above but this time the signal wire is completely cut/disconnected and I don't get any error messages on the Edelbrock controller. If I disconnect the entire O2 harness/connector the light is not lighted (its completely off).
Any help is much appreciated & thanks for the time to read & view the videos.

[ErikSOCAL]

I can't help but I'm really interested in what you find out. I have both but never thought to combine the two. I bought the LM-1 to mess around with on another car. Hopefully you get to sort it out and congrats on leading the way!!

[Chad-1stGen]

Have you called Edelbrock tech support yet?

I called them years ago about my pro-flo EFI system and they were very helpful in troubleshooting some problems i had.

[carpedm]

I am currently working with both Edelbrock & another person on a solution to the problem and hope to report back in the next few weeks my results.

[carpedm]

just a quick update to anybody following the thread....

I have modded the MAT location to be inside the air cleaner and initial impressions are very good. Seems as if I am not getting so many severe lean spikes and the wideband AFR seems to be a lot more stable. Previously my coolest observed temp was 120* and would most of the time see it say 150*, but now I am reading the correct air temp going into the engine. So this will help me fine tune the system since things seem to be more stable...

Thanks Bob D for the great post & info to a very simple modification

http://sonic.net/~mikebr/efi/problems/ mat_location... (http://sonic.net/~mikebr/efi/problems/ mat_location...)

[Hammered]

Where was it located previously?

[carpedm]

I just got back last night after a long test & tune session as the relocation of the MAT sensor has made a huge difference in the AFR spikes (both rich & lean).

The stock MAT sensor location when the system first came out is between the throttle body and intake and it is held in there with a brass ring/pipe that loves to conduct heat. I moved it to be up in the air cleaner and now things are night/day different in my tune & ability to consistently tune and smooth out some lean areas that no matter what I did I could not get rid of. I have a completely sealed cowl induction hood/air cleaner and my MAT temp sensor always reads between 120~150* in the orignal location. Now it reads perfectly & consistently being located in the air cleaner base.

In speaking with Edelbrock they told me there is a switching point of 133* where anything hotter than 133* the computer started leaning out the fuel and I was crossing this switching point constantly during any changes to acceleration from cruise causing me all sorts of tuning problems.

[Hammered]

Interesting. Is it an exposed sensor or a sealed one like the ECT sensor?

[ErikSOCAL]

I couldn't open the link?

but just on the description, it sounds something similar to this ?

http://www.edgesz28.com/edgesZ28/coldair.htm


can't wait to go get my car out and start messing around with this.

[edl406]

See I asked them about my IAT sensor reading and they said that it was placed there for a reason and the fact that the temp didnt fall below a certain temp was to ensure that the engine has enough fuel on cold starts.
#3588 http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/acc-sensors.shtml
When I ran mine I had edel's O2 sensor and a seperate one for my AFR gauge, I tuned off of the gauge and paid no attention to the light on the programmer most of the time. They really werent very consistant of each other thats why I didnt pay attention to the light.

[carpedm]

I have been adjusting the parameters of the Innovate LC-1 narrow band simulated output and have got what appears to be a pretty good range of voltage output vs. AFR. If I remember correctly I am using [email protected] & [email protected] This centers the voltage to be about 0.447 around 14.65 AFR. When driving it now goes into closed loop form and stays in operating mode switching between green/red/amber color consistently and is consistent with the wideband AFR guage. It took a lot of trial & error and help from many people for me to understand exactly what is going on, etc. For example, in closed loop mode if the O2 sensor voltage does not fluctuate between certain voltage values so many times every ignition cycle the computer thinks there is an error with the O2 sensor and will abort the closed loop function which is what it was doing when I had the voltage output range too narrow.

I am still working on some minor things but the driveability and tunability of my car is night & day different being nwo all is good and enjoyable.

[Fuelie Nova]

Bob D is the man when it comes to Eldo efi. He helped me so many times in the early years when I ran the 3500 setup.
Now if you really want to see an improvement, get him to sell you one of his chips to replace the edelbrock chip... no comparison.
Tg

[carpedm]

Yes...that is exactly who I have been working with Bob D. He has been extremely helpful and I actually have a new chip arriving from him any day now that I am very much looking forward to trying out.