How does insurance work with totalling a car?

[derekf]

I got run off the road and into a concrete barrier on Monday in my 98 Z28. Damage to the passenger side, front and rear. I don't doubt that I've tweaked the unibody, and the rear axle and rear wheel are both definitely bent.

The claim has been turned over to the "total loss" department of State Farm, but they still haven't returned my calls from yesterday.

My question/my concern is that based on kbb/nada/edmunds, blue book value on a 98 Z28 is less than 5k, so I expect that'd be the best they'd offer me - but there aren't any equivalent vehicles listed on craigslist/autotrader/local classifieds for anywhere close to that.

So... if they offer a number that's way too low, do I have any recourse or am I just stuck?

[jy211]

fight them. Or make them find the same condition car for the settlement offer...

[Taylor1969]

You will have to go back and forth with them until you can agree on the price. Unfortunately you are right - you cannot find a nice 98 Z28 for less than 8K... Maybe producing enough evidence (through car trader, ebay, the classifieds, etc.) will help you in your fight.

[derekf]

So you just say "no, that's not going to work" and point them at various equivalent cars for lots more? Is it just you-against-the-loss-person, or do you get your agent involved (or are they more an advocate for the insurance company than for you?)

[jy211]

Yup. tell them that's too low. And like Taylor said have proof that there are no cars in the condition of yours available for their offer amount.

[1969CamaroRS]

Some states you have the ability to request a quick arbitration within a certain time period (I think its 21 days in CA). They figure people just want the entire mess behind them and are willing to settle for less money, so the longer you hold out the more they tend to offer (within reason).

[200horse]

lol good luck fighting an insrance company. its going to be real hard to do they will wear you out. Good Luck let us know what happens.

[Dayton]

Derek,

You are going to want to do what I did. I was involved in a no fault accident several years ago. The at fault driver and I had the same ins co, Cal State Auto Assn. My 1996 Toyota 4Runner was totaled.
I was t boned so hard, I roll 3 times.
CSAA offered me a settlement that I wasn't too happy about. I declined their settlement and told them I would get back to them in a few days. I then began my research. I scoured the internet for other "for sale" 1996 4Runners with similiar options and mileage. I called them all if they were similiar to mine. I asked, is the car still for sale? How much? If it sold, how much?. Armed with my research report with I gave to the adjuster, I got an add'l $2000 out of CSAA.

[tiznodd]

KBB/NADA, etc. are all just guides. These do not stand up in court very well, therefor insurance companies don't use these. They use 3rd party companies that have a database of actual verified sales in your area, then average them all together. You might be surprised what they offer you. Typically what my company offers people is more than KBB, and certainly more than I would pay for most cars. Keep in mind that the burden of proof lyes on you, just as you would be the plaintif in court and they would be the defense. They will provide documentation as to why it is worth what they say, and you must provide documentation as to why it is worth more. Simply saying, "my car is worth more, I don't accept your offer" doesn't work. It is simply a statement of opinion and someone would look like a fool presenting that argument in court. What I do know is that in most states the insurance company is REQUIRED to settle, or show they have tried in a reasonable time period. What happens if you drag your feet expecting them to "give in" is that they will owner retain salvage the vehicle, which means give you the undisputed amount, less the salvage value of your vehicle and leave it up to you to make the next move.
As for the comment about making them provide you another car, the law clearly states that they owe for the value of property, not the property itself so good luck with getting them to buy you another Z28.
Good luck, it might not be as bad as you're expecting.



I got run off the road and into a concrete barrier on Monday in my 98 Z28. Damage to the passenger side, front and rear. I don't doubt that I've tweaked the unibody, and the rear axle and rear wheel are both definitely bent.

The claim has been turned over to the "total loss" department of State Farm, but they still haven't returned my calls from yesterday.

My question/my concern is that based on kbb/nada/edmunds, blue book value on a 98 Z28 is less than 5k, so I expect that'd be the best they'd offer me - but there aren't any equivalent vehicles listed on craigslist/autotrader/local classifieds for anywhere close to that.

So... if they offer a number that's way too low, do I have any recourse or am I just stuck?

[T_Raven]

i'm interested to know what happens with this. i had a motorcycle totalled once when i let a potential buyer ride it. i actually got more out of it than i was asking for it, but my insurance company rocks. they gave me the nada book value.

my neighbor hit my sister's parked car one day totalling it. his insurance company offered a "market value" much lower than book value. i found 15 ads online for similar cars in similar condition, all were asking for more than what they offered my sister but it did no good. i'd still like to know how they get their "market value"

[mpozzi]

Derek,

You are going to want to do what I did. I was involved in a no fault accident several years ago. The at fault driver and I had the same ins co, Cal State Auto Assn. My 1996 Toyota 4Runner was totaled.
I was t boned so hard, I roll 3 times.
CSAA offered me a settlement that I wasn't too happy about. I declined their settlement and told them I would get back to them in a few days. I then began my research. I scoured the internet for other "for sale" 1996 4Runners with similiar options and mileage. I called them all if they were similiar to mine. I asked, is the car still for sale? How much? If it sold, how much?. Armed with my research report with I gave to the adjuster, I got an add'l $2000 out of CSAA.

Best advice I've heard and glad to hear you got a fair and equitable settlement offer from my employer. The insured must do their homework if they feel the offer isn't valid. Also, show evidence of maintenance and other work that would bring the value up.

Good luck,
Mary Pozzi

[Patrick]

Do your research. Find out what cars in your condition & mileage are going for...If they offer you less tell them that your research indicates that the offer is too low. Be polite..adjusters deal with a--holes all day long. Be prepared to provide examples of cars to the adjuster (thus making their decision easier). Remember negotiating 101...ask for more and then come down to your price point.

[derekf]

Thanks, all of you. I'm still waiting on them to return my calls but I will post an update when I have something concrete (get it) to report.

[BA.]

I agree with most of the positive posts up there.

You absolutely have the right to negotiate the payout. I bought back my totaled 69 Camaro long ago, and also received better payout on a stolen sportbike after negotiating with the agent in person.

Good luck man!! Round up that data from Ebay, TraderOnline, etc.

[dstryr]

Buy it back and throw the lt1/t56 into your pro-tourer

[Rhino]

Buy it back and throw the lt1/t56 into your pro-tourer
ls1 :twothumbs

[Bill Howell]

Derek, I may have missed this somewhere in your posts, but here is my question. Are you dealing with your insurance or someone else's insurance (ie, the guy that ran you off the road)? Much easier to deal with the offender's insurance than your own.

[Jim Nilsen]

Call the claims adjuster till you reach them. Like speed dial call till you reach them.
Then let them know that you want the car no matter if they total it or not. This is a leverage you have since most contracts give you the first option to buy it back if it is totalled. Parts is parts and they benefit from the parts if they get the car if they choose to. The main thing is to cause them more work which cost them more money. You will get a higher price if you just do more research yourself and have pictures that are recent of the cars condition and present it well.
Be ready to have a place to keep the wrecked car so you don't pay their storage fees. Sometimes it adds up to be a good deal if you can get them drivable quick and cheap and sell it or keep it as a good beater.

Bill speaks a whole lot when he asked if you caused the accident or if you got hit. You never come out as good when you are the destroyer :crying:

Good luck

[Steve1968LS2]

Derek, I may have missed this somewhere in your posts, but here is my question. Are you dealing with your insurance or someone else's insurance (ie, the guy that ran you off the road)? Much easier to deal with the offender's insurance than your own.

There's the big question...

If you're not at fault it's much easier to leverage the other guy's insurance.

I dealt with State Farm and they were very reasonable. Do you're homework. If they want to total the car then don't be afraid to argure. If they offer less than you feel is fair then don't be afraid of small claims court. Don't mention lawyers as a threat though since that will end the dealings with the first claims adjuster and get you to thier legal side.

Also, if the offer is close see if they will pay and let you keep the damaged car. Parting out the car could make up the difference between what they give you and what it will cost to get a replacement.

Good luck and sorry to hear about the accident.

[seekins]

I actually totaled a car 2 times......

Got rearended in my Camery and they gave me NADA value. I purchased the car back for cheap. (trunk moved in about 10")

Almost exactly one year later i got rear ended in the same car again. I never did fix much of it, just the lights and beat the trunk back a bit. It was still held down by a tie down. Dont laugh (too hard), it was my commuter car.

I told the 2nd insurance co. that it was totaled out previously. for the car, they offered me NADA value minus the body damage quote from the previous wreck (5000 car with 1800 damage). Thats the only car i have driven, beat the piss out of (literally) and made money on :)

Most likely, State farm (good ins. co here BTW) will do you good. Just get your evidence ready and present it to them BEFORE they offer you a value. that way, you can put a honest value in their head fist..

if they wont give you what you want, you can buy your car back for very very cheap. Then you can re-sell it to make the amount up.

[BRIAN]

Wait till you get your offer they are usually more than what you would pay for a comparable car. Just verify the options and miles are correct. Also the reports can be run in fair to above average condition depending where your vehicles condition lies. There is also prior damages that will be deducted. If your car was a "perfect" example than yes you should fight for an above average used car sale condition.

The reports are based on average used cars that are not inspected for prior repairs or defects that you may look for when auto shopping. When you shop, pricing is usually higher on a pristine car. When they run the report it is a simple average of cars for sale in your area without ever seeing what they actually looked like. This leaves room for negotiation.

Calling non stop and threatening any body regardless of their job is only going to work against you. Depending on the State they have a reasonable amount of time to make you an offer, don't let someone get pissed and use that against you. It can take a day or so to get all the information and reports needed to make you a fair offer. If a week or so goes by then push the issue. Never say you are getting an Attorney unless you actually are as it will force the claim rep to stop speaking with you directly.

A vehicle being a total loss may have nothing to do with an adjuster's judgement and rather be State Law. Most States require a Ins Co to total a vehicle when it's damages reach say 75% of its ACV (value).

If you were both driving side to side comparative negligence again depending on the state will work against you. You will get an offer of a percentage of the total value of your vehicle. $5000 ACV minus say 50% and you get $2500. Unless rear ended it is almost never 100%.

Go get checked by a real doctor without letting too much time lapse. You can figure out the rest.

[bart007]

As far as I know most insurance companies use two different methods when settling total losses. Usually one or the other, but seldom both. One is using a recognized source such as NADA or what is called Fair Market Value. Sometimes it depends on how your state laws are written. My state uses both, but the insurance company has to use the same method chosen for all of their total losses. They can not use the method that saves them the most money. If they use NADA on one they have to use it on all TL's until an NADA value can not be determined. They will then go to a market value. Market value is basically an average selling price of like kind vehicle in your area or extended area if they can not find the particular vehicle close to you. In my state, owners tend to fair better using NADA than FMV, the NADA figures are used at dealer retail and deductions are taken for condition, options and mileage. On FMV condition is figured at the bottom and then added to as condition warrants.
The sqeaky wheel gets the grease when it comes to the insurance companies, know the lingo and know what you are talking about when proposing a settlement. Write all notes down and ask for names of the representatives spoken with. It also doesn't hurt to check the State government website for settling total losses, they usually have posted guidelines the insurance companies must ashere to. If you feel they are not treating you fairly, most states have an insurance commisioner you can appeal to. Insurance companies do not like getting Dept of Insurance letters from the gov.

[derekf]

Other driver never stopped, so it's just my insurance. They've decided to total the car out and I'm fine with that (I've left four voicemails for the assigned adjuster in the Total Loss division).

I figure so long as the numbers look OK, I'll take the car back, put stock parts back on it, and turn around and put it on Craigslist for ~4k or so -- I've already got an LS1/T56 for my Elky so not so interested in parting it out (plus that's a lot of work and I have not so much free time anymore)

I figure I'm in a holding pattern until I hear back from the lady. I'm guessing she was out Thursday and Friday, her outbound voicemail message says to leave a message and she'll respond when she gets back on Thursday the 23rd. Once she tells me the offer I'll be able to go from there.

I don't think I'm going to get another 4th gen. I'll likely buy something cheap and put the rest of the money towards the parts I do need to get the Elky back on the road.

[tellyv]

I own a collision shop and heres what happens at least in wi. the insurance company will have to pay you what ever cars like yours are selling for so do your research, the insurance companies are usually fair and I've never heard of anyone getting really screwed, also make sure you get tax, title, and license plate fees, they have to pay that also. good luck

[hoosiergta]

Or maybe you'll end up with a car guy appraiser like my son did last week . I had medium size fire under the hood while delivering it to him. Indy police officer came by and kept it from burning to the ground but most of the under hood wiring is toasted. Got my car trailer and hauled it to his house and shoved it in the garage of his house . The appraiser looks at the outside of the car(now realize this is just a daily driven92 RS camaro that was a v6 ,5 spd that we put a carbed350 / 700R in. He says nice car opens the hood and says "yep totalled ,you going to keep it aren't you?" Probably gave him 500 more than he's put in it in the 5yrs he's owned it,and thats after the buy back was subtracted . I think it was State Farm .

[BRIAN]

If you keep car subtract the salvage value from your settlement amount. Also most likely a branded salvage title. Not as easy as it sounds.

Estimators are not stupid you might also want to reevaluate the damages as nobody wants to total a car that is repairable. Unibody cars don't always show all damages to untrained eye.

Hey, good luck and hope it works out. If it is your Co than get on the phone with your Agent. That is the guy who you pay a premium to every month. He or she is the reason your premium is higher than a phone op Co. He is the person to call when you have a problem not the adjuster.

Double check that evaluation for miles, options and condition you would be surprised what is missed.

By the way if you do not think about 20 SF adjusters and estimators aren't on this site you are crazy. I will give you the very advise I gave someone else on here, be careful what you write on the net. You would be surprised who reads it. Trust me I have a little insight into a certain Insurance Co's and the sneaky *****s that work there.

[bart007]

If you keep car subtract the salvage value from your settlement amount. Also most likely a branded salvage title. Not as easy as it sounds.

Estimators are not stupid you might also want to reevaluate the damages as nobody wants to total a car that is repairable. Unibody cars don't always show all damages to untrained eye.

Hey, good luck and hope it works out. If it is your Co than get on the phone with your Agent. That is the guy who you pay a premium to every month. He or she is the reason your premium is higher than a phone op Co. He is the person to call when you have a problem not the adjuster.

Double check that evaluation for miles, options and condition you would be surprised what is missed.

By the way if you do not think about 20 SF adjusters and estimators aren't on this site you are crazy. I will give you the very advise I gave someone else on here, be careful what you write on the net. You would be surprised who reads it. Trust me I have a little insight into a certain Insurance Co's and the sneaky *****s that work there.

Touche' :banghead:

[derekf]

6600, plus TT&L comes to roughly 7100.

Subtract my 500$ deductible, back to 6600.

Salvage value on the car is apparently just shy of 1500.

So... I've got 5100, and a bent 98 Z28. Body shop reports that the frame isn't really tweaked; other than the obvious body damage, the main problems are the bent axle, the engine cradle is bent, and so is the pass side upright. Since the body shop estimate was less than the actual value of the car (estimate was ~6k), the title is not branded as a salvage title.

I figure I should be able to get somewhere between 2500 and 4k by selling the whole car intact (although it still drives pretty good). Since I only paid 8300 for the car 2 years and 40k miles ago, I figure I've come out OK.

Alternately, I've got that little voice telling me to fix the mechanical issues and just keep driving it. I come out OK there too.

[buickfunnycar.com]

sounds like they did better than you thought...:twothumbs

[Zee]

I came in on this late but being one of those sneaky claim managers myself, I am glad it seems to have worked out for you.

Most people think we are out to screw everyone but in reality, it is not worth my reps time to do so. Most companies try to pay what is fair with as little hassle as possible. I'm a big fan of owner retained salvage and sometimes I will allow a little bit of a better deal with those as not dealing with the salvage is just one less headache for me. An insured that can support a higher value with real documentation is the same deal.

[gearheads78]

I assure you if you bent a rear axle and bent the cradle the body is more than likely bent a lot more than you think. It will look way out of whack on a frame machine. That is very good money for a 98 but don't expect anywhere near 4000.00 on a totaled 98 Fbody sold complete. 2000-2500.00 will be more realistic. I have bought and sold a lot of these cars.

-Richard

PS you should be in good hands with State Farm. Now some of the companies that advertise on TV in the middle of the day is a whole different story.

[BRIAN]

There is something wrong here???

Adjuster pays out $7k on a car when they have an agreed repair cost below $6k? The Insurance Co's estimate is what constitutes a car being a TL or not otherwise they would just contract the repair for the $6k. Makes no sense.

Your car has more damages than you think as they did not trust the shop's estimate if they paid out over $1000 more than to repair then vehicle that did not meet a TL threshold. That car has to have plenty of open items such as rail and suspension damages. How do you bend an engine cradle which is attached to a unibiody frame rail and not bend the rails? Bench that car it is bent. The shop knew you were walking with the car and didn't want to waste their time. There was an estimate written by SF on that car unless it is one of their shops.

A car with the $6k damages is worth $1500 in salvage not one that has damages that exceed its ACV. Add the additional damages that were not visible during the initial inspection and you got charged too much in salvage.

Unless you have written estimates for a living believe me there are damages there that you are not seeing and taking into account.

Could have negotiated additional money on either end. Hey at least you are happy with outcome.

As everyone can see Insurance Co's are not out to screw everyone. It is actually usually an uneducated shop making poor decisions or not informing the owner of what he real deal is.

[1969CamaroRS]

My experience is very different. I hate dealing with insurance companies I can't count when I or anyone that I know have ever been treated even remotely fairly. Maybe it is different in California.

Case in point, my friend is in a wheel chair and had a modified van with a lift and special controls. It was a 93 E150 Ford van with low miles that was in a good condition with about 30k in modifications (so that he could drive it; he has limited use of his arms/hands). Granted the van wasn't brand new, but the insurance company for *months* refused to budge off their 4k blue book. They simply wanted to give him nothing for all the modifications and nothing for a rental car for the time it would take to modify another van to get him back on the road. And only wanted to pay $20 for a car with a limit of 30days. All the while he is burning through rental car fees (had to rent another van with a lift so his mom could at least get him to work). His van was totaled by a drunk driver so there was no issue of who was responsible.

My experience I had when I was t-boned (other driver hit the gas instead of the brakes again no issue of who was at fault) in my brand new Explorer with 4k miles was that the insurance company compared the vehicle to other stripped down Explorers 2 trim lines down with over 20k miles. Not what I would call a reasonable comparison. Eventually I had to sue them and got 10k more than their best offer. Took almost a year to get a dime out of them.

Or the time I was rear ended and the insurance company refused to pay for the damage to the exhaust that was cracked and simply claimed the car was old (it wasn't and the exhaust was less than a year old).

I have tons more stories from friends, family and my own personal experiences. Never in my experience does the insurance company simply start with a reasonable offer they always try to "low-ball". Usually you are forced to sue to get even regular blue book and/or rental car fees because they dragged their feet to play their low-ball game and expect you to foot the rental car fees because now they are so expensive.

[Zee]

Sorry, with all due respect, I am calling BS. We can agree though that you have a very nice Camaro though.

However, If you sued anyone, you certainly did not get $10K more for strictly your PD claim. Contingencies are typically 33% and if suit needs to be filed, they go to 40%. As such, it is near impossible to be made whole on a PD lawsuit. If you made up a retaliatory BI claim then that is a different story. I have access to CA dockets. What county and what case number? Who was the carrier involved?

FWIW, Cali has some of the strictest regulation in the country and a fairly aggressive dept of insurance.

[absmith]

My experience is very different. I hate dealing with insurance companies I can't count when I or anyone that I know have ever been treated even remotely fairly. Maybe it is different in California.

Case in point, my friend is in a wheel chair and had a modified van with a lift and special controls. It was a 93 E150 Ford van with low miles that was in a good condition with about 30k in modifications (so that he could drive it; he has limited use of his arms/hands). Granted the van wasn't brand new, but the insurance company for *months* refused to budge off their 4k blue book. They simply wanted to give him nothing for all the modifications and nothing for a rental car for the time it would take to modify another van to get him back on the road. And only wanted to pay $20 for a car with a limit of 30days. All the while he is burning through rental car fees (had to rent another van with a lift so his mom could at least get him to work). His van was totaled by a drunk driver so there was no issue of who was responsible.

My experience I had when I was t-boned (other driver hit the gas instead of the brakes again no issue of who was at fault) in my brand new Explorer with 4k miles was that the insurance company compared the vehicle to other stripped down Explorers 2 trim lines down with over 20k miles. Not what I would call a reasonable comparison. Eventually I had to sue them and got 10k more than their best offer. Took almost a year to get a dime out of them.

Or the time I was rear ended and the insurance company refused to pay for the damage to the exhaust that was cracked and simply claimed the car was old (it wasn't and the exhaust was less than a year old).

I have tons more stories from friends, family and my own personal experiences. Never in my experience does the insurance company simply start with a reasonable offer they always try to "low-ball". Usually you are forced to sue to get even regular blue book and/or rental car fees because they dragged their feet to play their low-ball game and expect you to foot the rental car fees because now they are so expensive.

If you don't like what the adverse carrier is offering use your own coverage. Let your carrier worry about getting their money and possibly your deductible from the adverse carrier. Now, if you don't like what your carrier is offering it is probably because you aren't familiar with the settlement and valuation methods outlined in the policy you bought.