Sold a car, then it has problems, should I care?

[realcoray]

Yesterday I sold my 1968 Chevelle that was done. Long story short on the car, it had a 454 that was freshened up and ran fine although I did not get the chance to drive the car all that much, and particularly not for extended periods of time.

A buyer came from Alaska and bought it. At first before he came I thought he would surely ship it back but he informed me that he was in fact going to first drive it from my area, near seattle, to denver, and then drive it back to alaska. Every single person from car experts to car novices were terribly surprised by this, and I warned him that it probably wasn't the greatest plan for a variety of reasons.

Anyways we wrapped up stuff at his bank and it was all transfered, and I drove him to drop off his rental and then back to where the car was stored. It started right up and he drove it off towards denver.

This morning he called me and he said he had some problems. After perhaps 200+ miles of driving fine, the car overheated. Then after that, I assume he let it cool down, it had some obvious problem with the engine. He stated the radiator fluid was dirty which doesn't surprise me and my theory is that it clogged up the thermostat and thus it overheated. The loud noise now (they theorize at the shop its at that it's a rod knock), is pretty much a result of the over heating.

I'm somewhat torn about how I should feel about this, on one hand, it is the car I put together that did have issues, but on the other hand, it was sold as-is, he was taking it on a 3000+ mile road trip, and I really have no idea how he drove it (he claims he only got up to 90 once), or how long he drove it before pulling over when it was overheating.

My dad says about all we can do is look at it if he brought it to his shop but that's not likely to happen since it's so far away now. I'm reluctant to offer any assistance but I don't want to seem like a jerk who sold a lemon car.

How would you deal with the situation?

[jy211]

I sold a H1 Hummer to a guy from Michigan. I got the truck via a trade for my chopper. I didn't drive the hummer full time while I had it. Actually only drove it for a week around town locally. Well he flew him and his family down to drive the truck back home. I told him he should trailer it but he said it's fine, he'll be ok.

Well on his way home the truck broke down. He took it to the local dealer and they diagnosed the issue. He had to replace a sensor.

Even though I sold it as is, I was nice enough to split the cost with him. But he knew ahead of time, truck was sold as is. I could have easily said no.

Once the buyer agrees to the vehicle being "as is", your hands should be washed of it. IMO.

[bigvegan]

OK, let me get this straight.

Somebody buys your car without having it brought to a reasonably reputable mechanic to give the car a thorough inspection before buying it (much less having a tune-up done on the car), then instead of taking it for some mellow drives to get used to the vehicle / do the maintenance as necessary to get it ready to be a regular driver, decides to drive it from Seattle to Colorado, and now he's surprised that there's an issue with the 40 year old car he just bought?

This guy pretty much deserves the car-buyer's equivalent of a Darwin award.

A fool and his money are soon parted. If I were you, I'd deposit that fool's money in the bank (or stick the cash under your mattress if you've seen what's happening to the banks), and tell him that it was his decision to buy a 40 year old car and take it on a thousand mile road trip without having it checked out first.

[SimplyKC]

It's a 40 year-old car. He had poor judgement in attempting to drive it that far. There is nothing you can do at this point and should not feel bad about it all. Only if you were aware of something being wrong should you feel guilt.

[Vegas69]

You told him to trailer it, he overheated it, which blew the engine. Tough shinola I say. With a hot rod you need to watch the gauges.

[TheRealDSTRYR]

If you have receipts for the 'freshened up' motor work and can provide him with that and an honest estimate of miles you drove it, then I think that is as far as you absolutely have to go. But if you have ANY gut feeling that there might be an issue, you might consider a partial refund for the motor. You can not guess how far he drove it hot, nor can he guess how many miles you put on the freshened motor. Tough spot for you both.

However, I have owned and driven enough cars of this vintage that I ALWAYS have a feel for the quirks of the car if I have put a few hundred miles on. I drove a 69 GTO that had a 72 Firebird motor swapped into it 300 miles home on a flat intake cam lobe. No problems. Then I drove it 300-400 more miles before I stored it prior to a cross-country move. It is now sold but the buyer knew the issue and drove it onto his trailer.


Since you said the car was 'done', is this a case of a completed resto/freshen up the whole car and it was time to sell so you could start on the next project? Or, has it been done for a couple of years with the motor in and some miles put on it by you?

A buddy sold a 69 440 6bbl car and very shortly after it developed a rod knock. He gave the buyer about $1000-$1250 IIRC to compensate. I honestly believe that the motor was not knocking when the car was sold but was on the verge of having trouble. Had the owner kept it another month he probably would have had the knock develop before it sold.

Your gut will tell you if it is right to help him out with part of the motor costs. However, when he took off cross-country without as much as a shake-down cruise, I think he took on ALL responsibilty of the additional associated costs(hotel, truck/trailer rental, emergeny repair).

Good luck with it.

[rob07002]

Regarding the Chevelle, If you did everything you said in your post, then sleep soundly. I would let him know you feel bad, but warned of the potential issues with that kind of trip and then stop communication as anything further could come back to haunt you if he pursues legally.

As long as you have a BOS stating "as is" which is signed by both parties, then your conscience should be clear.

If you stiil feel bad, buy him a set of bearings and a good luck card.

[6'9"Witha69]

I wouldn't feel too bad.

[realcoray]

It's a 40 year-old car. He had poor judgement in attempting to drive it that far. There is nothing you can do at this point and should not feel bad about it all. Only if you were aware of something being wrong should you feel guilt.

I knew of no mechanical issues at all, but I did tell him that just based on the experiences I've had in the past it might overheat, especially if he got stuck in bad traffic. He said the mechanics think that maybe the gauge was not accurate but I had no indication of that, from his own account it sounds like it was showing 160-170 which is what it probably should have been prior to overheating.

The car was mostly finished about a year ago, but has regularly been started and I have driven it and even recently replaced the alternator because it was not putting out enough juice.

I feel a bit better after talking to some people, I just felt bad that someone dropped 17k for a car I built and has issues. I guess it sucks but once it leaves the area I really have no idea what he was doing to the car, and what happened as a result.

[Restomod]

As Rob07002 said, IF you have a signed ASIS BOS you SHOULD be ok but he could sue you even then if he wanted to. If you dont have a BOS then you may be in trouble......

[gordonquixote]

For all you know he could have been doing burnouts above redline and snorting riddlin off the dash....

Having an honest man's conscience and circumstance are two entirely separate things in this case.

If you HONESTLY didn't know of or suspect any problems that you didn't tell him about, rest easy. He could just as easily been plowed over by a tractor trailer leaving your driveway.

[TheRealDSTRYR]

I knew of no mechanical issues at all, but I did tell him that just based on the experiences I've had in the past it might overheat, especially if he got stuck in bad traffic. He said the mechanics think that maybe the gauge was not accurate but I had no indication of that, from his own account it sounds like it was showing 160-170 which is what it probably should have been prior to overheating.




Ok, you didn't say that about the overheating in your first post. If you warned him while you were negotiating, then your conscience should be clear. If you warned him after he came to pick up the car and told you he was going to drive it to Denver and then back to AK, then you with-held that info when he was making the deal and that is not right. A reasonable person would take into account the possibilty of an overheating issue if they knew it up-front, but if he felt like he was over a barrel and needed to keep going on his trip, then you should consider a refund if you ony warned him after the deal was made.

Of course, he could have backed out if you told him before he paid you, but if he already paid....... Still not enough detail of the timeline to make a call.

[Tony_SS]

Did it overheat on him the same way it overheated on you? If so, it depends on when you told him that 'it might overheat'. Usually overheating is not a 'might' situation though. It either does or it doesn't, and given the nature of that problem, I would've made that perfectly clear long before he even left from Alaska. If you did, and he ignored that, then its on him.

[realcoray]

Ok, you didn't say that about the overheating in your first post. If you warned him while you were negotiating, then your conscience should be clear. If you warned him after he came to pick up the car and told you he was going to drive it to Denver and then back to AK, then you with-held that info when he was making the deal and that is not right. A reasonable person would take into account the possibilty of an overheating issue if they knew it up-front, but if he felt like he was over a barrel and needed to keep going on his trip, then you should consider a refund if you ony warned him after the deal was made.

Of course, he could have backed out if you told him before he paid you, but if he already paid....... Still not enough detail of the timeline to make a call.

The car had never had an overheating problem or I would have specifically mentioned that, I brought overheating up because of the time he was leaving, traffic could have been bad and I had no idea how the car would deal with being stuck in bad traffic and suggested that in that situation he needed to be careful. It was just my understanding of old cars with big block engines, not anything specific to my car.

[rob07002]

You really can't get yourself too worked up. You know in your heart if you presented all the facts clearly.

I had almost the exact same thing happen to me a few years ago. I sold an 88 Blazer on eBay, which actually went into a bidding war. Guy who won was from upsate NY and said he was planning to drive it home. I went through some trouble to locate a nearby DMV, made a few calls to find out how to handle the reg so he could drive, etc. In my listing and throughout the process I let him know that the thing sat without being started for over 2 years. I started it up a day before he came down, it fired up, ran good, drove around the block and done, I even started it a few more times to make sure the batt was ok and there wasn't anything wrong, like a miss or something.

We both sign a BOS stating as is, with high mileage and he's off. Next day I get a call and a sob story about his adventure home after the car broke. He explains that he had to have it towed off the highway, the shop says the motors seized, etc, etc... Now, I have now way of knowing; A) If the motor even blew up B) How hard he drove it C) If anything was true.

I wasn't driving 2 hours to verify his story over a $800 car. In the end I gave him back $300, told him to leave me alone and probably shouldn't have even done that.

People need to understand that "AS IS" means just that.... I can tell you this, next time I sell a car, I will look then straight in the eye and make sure they know that once it leaves my sight, it's their headache.

Best of luck and don't sweat it.

[megaladon6]

a) you warned him it could have issues
b) it's not a resto where everything has been worked on
c)he made it 200mi!! if he made it 2 or maybe 20mi then i'd help him out.
d) i don't care what the gauge says, if it overheated enough to cause rod knock there were signs that he ignored.
e) i believe the phrase is "caveat emptor"

[CRead01]

For all you know he could have been doing burnouts above redline and snorting riddlin off the dash....

Having an honest man's conscience and circumstance are two entirely separate things in this case.

If you HONESTLY didn't know of or suspect any problems that you didn't tell him about, rest easy. He could just as easily been plowed over by a tractor trailer leaving your driveway.



I agree.

if it was the same situation and you sold it to a neighbor who you know didn't do anything outragous I would help out. but on the other hand you have no idea who or what this guy is.

did he seem like he knew about cars?

I hate to say it but you get some goofballs who would complain about anything they can complain about. while this could be a valid problem he could also be just some guy tryin to get some of his money back and get an estimate from a friend's shop.

I would check into it more and decide from there.

[surlyjoe]

I would not feel bad about it. You warned him. I bet everyone here has had a hotrod breakdown on them. Whenever I am not sure of a car I trailer it. I have trailered cars to get work done that I could have driven but did not want the breakdown. You gave him all the warnings neccessary.

Also if he heated it enough to hurt the motor he ignored the warning signs. Is he new to classics? I would guess that he is since he thinks he can drive an unproven car 1000 miles.

[TheRealDSTRYR]

The car had never had an overheating problem or I would have specifically mentioned that, I brought overheating up because of the time he was leaving, traffic could have been bad and I had no idea how the car would deal with being stuck in bad traffic and suggested that in that situation he needed to be careful. It was just my understanding of old cars with big block engines, not anything specific to my car.


Ok, that's fair, warning based on general past experience rather than on a bad experience with this particular car. I agree w/ CRead01; don't be too quick to concede anything and let us know how it plays out.

[dcozzi]

It's a 40 year old car and who knows what he was doing to it on the drive.

Common sense dictates not to take a car that you have never driven before on a 1000 mile trip.

Rest easy, like the Moslems say "Shiite happens!".

[406 Q-ship]

Assuming the buyer is being truthful that the car now has a rod knock. You have no idea how he treated the car on the trip too, yes he did state that once he had the car up to 90 so as to say he didn't abuse the car. Now what if he was struck in rush hour traffic jam watching the guage climb and climb and climb, you would be suprized how many people will keep right on driving a car that is burning down without stopping. I would tell him that it was fine when it left here, and that you recommended that he not take a cross country drive in a newly finished car without alot of miles on it. I will now write right that I didn't recommend the cross country drive right on the BOS, just like on the Blazer deal I would put right on the BOS that the vehicle had been in storage for 2 years and that the new owner assumes any and all responsiblity. This is how I plan on handling all future BOS for anything I sell, it will state all problems that I decussed with the buyer so it will not come back to haunt me.

[paul67]

If I had bought the car and was going to do a road trip like that,I would asked you,someone or done myself to do an oil filter change and changed the coolant,ok a full service before going on the trip,even if you had said it had been done. Sleep soundly you have do nothing wrong.

[Jim Nilsen]

This makes me think of a new twist on selling a car. You start at a reasonable price for a car that might break down and then if it makes it 30 days or 3,000 miles you get a bonus payment. :idea:

Try getting your money out of someone for that situation would be just as difficult as him getting money for it not making it.:bsjerk:

I have heard recently that those Alaskans are different and this proves that the difference is only in miles away and in this case too many miles away for a nonincidental trip in an old Chevelle.

At 17k I wouldn't even think about feeling guilty. If it was 30k or more then it would get into different territory. With a reasonable amount of money he can add value to it and recover any loss he had.

[ProTouring442]

My first response is, why does it have a rod knock from overheating? Sounds like something more than a simple overheat, and I'm betting he is the reason. Beyond this, my response is "gee, didn't I tell you not to drive it?"

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[chicane67]

Overheat >> gasket failure >> water in the cylinder >> rod issue.

Your fair warning and caution should make you sleep at night. Afterall, you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink. Personally, I'm tired of drowning horses. But since you dont own the horse... feel bad for about two minutes... and get on with your life.

Like posted above... who knows what this guy was actually doing with the car the minute he hit the freeway. AS-IS... is just that. AS-IS.

[bart007]

I sold a couple of RX7s last week through Craigs list. One was set up for a sbc, but had no engine, the other was purchased from a tow yard and had the original engine intact. I stated that I had got the engine running, but since the exhaust was missing as well as some belts and the fact I did not have a title to it. IT WOULD NOT BE DRIVABLE. Guess what? This dude show up after a 3.5 hour drive with a whole crew and a trailer, a one car trailer. I tell him when he shows up I can't get the running car started. He tells me that is bad since he planned to drive it home, What? I told him he was crazy and that I had told him earlier it needed to be trailered. Long story, I couldn't believe it, two hours later he pulls out of my drive with one on the trailer and driving the other. I had never had the other car more than started and the gas smelled like crap. I could hear him for at least a mile away as he hammered it. Needless to say I expected to see it by the road the next morning, but so far haven't seen or heard from the guy. I wished him well on the way out. A bit off topic, but sounds like you didn't guarantee your car to be ready for that kind of trip and I wouldn't feel too obligated, maybe a bit sympathetic, but not obligated.

[blown9746]

I sold a supercharged mustang a couple years ago and about a month later I get a call "you ever have a problem with the car overheating?" No. Basically he overheated it trashed the motor and expected something out of me.

I'd say you're covered. I would probably still feel a little bad despite the warnings, his stupidity, etc just because he only made it a couple hundred miles, but not bad enough to do anything about it!

[vintageracer]

Buy the car back, pay his complete fuel bill, pay his hotel during his entire trip, pay his tow bill, pay his mechanic shop charge for diagnosis of the problem, pay his airfare home and ALSO pay his tuition to the local community college for a basic automotive maintainence class so he won't do this stupid Sh$t again!

We can only hope the buyer has learned his lesson and will completely leave the old car hobby!

[vintageracer]

15 years ago I sold a flared out 66 Corvette coupe that had been sitting 15 years. The car started and ran good however the car was advertised as sitting 15 years with no brakes, lights or wipers.

The buyer came from Chicago with his son to buy the car. No trailer, no nothing! They asked if I thought we could get some brakes on the car by bleeding since they had to drive the car home. End result was we tried, we did get a little bit of brakes and they took of in a driving rain storm with no wipers and a little Rain X. Never heard from them again and did not see anything on the news that night about a major accident on the interstate!

About the same time I also sold a 1968 Chevelle SS convertible that I purchased from the original lady owner that had been sitting 20 years. Again, I got the car running and it did drive around the yard. Advertised the car in Hemmings. Spoke 5-6 different time with a guy from Canada who wanted the car. He asked if it would drive home. I told his it ran good but I would not drive this car across the street to get lunch! He wanted pictures. The tires on the car were OLD bias ply tires. While backing the car out in the yard for pictures the complete tread on the front left tire peeled off the casing. I took pictures of the car with the tread hanging off the tire. The guy sees the pictures and says he wants the car and will come down to get the car. Cool!

He calls me 3 days later asking if I will pick him up at the airport. Sure, no problem but why are you flying down here? To buy the car and drive it home! What part of "I would not drive this car across the street to get lunch did you not understand"? You did see the tire tread we talked about that peeled off the tire casing didn't you?" Well I just bought a $700 NON REFUNDABLE TICKET to fly to Nashville. What am I going to do? I guess I will still come and look at the car.

End result is that he shows up, loves the car and then says do you think I might be able to drive the car home? Well you damn sure need a set of tires. Off to Wal Mart we go! He installs 4 new tires. While there I suggest that the oil had not been changed in 20 years and that might be something to consider. He says, "thats a great idea"! Oh boy is this going to be a mess!

Four tires and one oil change later we return to the shop. He loads up and takes off to drive from Nashville to 3 hours north of Toronto Canada!!! Realize that the car did run good but the exhaust donuts gaskets were also bad causing a bad exhuast leaks. He leaves at 4:00 PM. At 11:00 am the next day I get a call from him. He is sitting at home with the car. He was estatic! The car ran great, he stopped once for a nap and at customs. He drove straight through!

I would not have gotten 4 miles and both of these idiots drive 10-16 hours in cars that they were TOLD were not drivable! To each his own is all I can say!

[Steve68]

Great stories Mike!, I say you did what your supposed to and now it's out of your hands,

[TnBlkC230WZ]

a) you warned him it could have issues
b) it's not a resto where everything has been worked on
c)he made it 200mi!! if he made it 2 or maybe 20mi then i'd help him out.
d) i don't care what the gauge says, if it overheated enough to cause rod knock there were signs that he ignored.
e) i believe the phrase is "caveat emptor"

If the rod was good when he left, you can't be responsible for future engine failures. He is the fool for taking a 40 year old vehicle of a 3000 mile trip without checking everthing out first. As long as your add didn't say "drive anywhere" and you truely thought it was ok, you are in the right.

I once had a similar situation on a 14 year old car I bought from a dealer. I had to nurse maid an overheating car 300 miles homes. Driving it around town, nobody new it had a blown head gasket. driving at 75 MPH in 125 degree heat, it overheated. The repairs were all on me and I wasn't upset. I was also smart enough not to blow the engine. I made the deal.