Pull up or pull down harness

[tumper93]

I am beginning to do my search for info on the seatbelt harnesses I need for my Camaro and have noticed something about adjustment I need advise on. Which type of adjuster should I get the pull up or the pull down? Noticed this on all the harnesses and either codt the same so....what do you guys suggest? This is a 68 Camaro with Arizen seats and a rollbar so the harness will wrap around the bar for the shoulder harness.

[Steve Chryssos]

Hi,
Go for pull downs. Just a bit more ergonomically friendly. And get Cam-Locks not latch link. Latch-links are noisy, clumsy and require that you teach each newbie passenger how to work them. You will order harness sets with bolt on tabs then remove the tabs from shoulder harnesses, loop the belts around the harness bar and re-thread them thru the buckles. It's the only way we sell them.

Twist Machine now sells G-Force 5 point Cam-lock bolt ons for $129.95 in Black, Red or Blue and we'll be glad to talk you through the entire install. Not on our e-store yet, so give us a call.

[Damn True]

The pull-ups are really meant for a formula car cockpit. I've never felt like I could get a pull up belt as snug as a pull-down.

I agree with Steve on the latch vs cam lock thing. That said, I will be using the latch-lock type. I spent eleven years in a helicopter with a latch lock belt. Performed egress practice 1000's of times including dunker crash training. I know for me it'll be easier to operate a latch in an emergency. Though having read Steve's comments I will probably put a cam-lock on the passenger side.

[tumper93]

Thanks guys for helping me get that straight. As far as the latch and cam lock, I had already decided on the camlock setup for smoother opertaion and added safety.

[David Pozzi]

Are all the camlocks this way? 3 settings, 1. is locked, you can't plug the belts in or remove them, 2. middle setting where you can snap in each belt. 3. unlocked, you can plug in the belt, but it falls right out again.

I've ridden in a few cars and there seems to be some with the 3 position camlocks that if you have the release in position 1 or 3, you can't belt yourself in! I've seen about the same level of trouble with either type, camlock or latch.
David

[Steve Chryssos]

The G-Force belts are two way. Center position is ready to accept belts. Cranked is release all.

[Overkill]

The pull-ups are really meant for a formula car cockpit.

Actually any cockpit that you can't really get your arms in a position to pull down. Dragsters use pull-up belts too.

[Yelcamino]

Since I'm in the market for harnesses for my Chevelle, I'm going to jump in this thread...

Like many of you, my car will be street driven often. While searching the web for different companies, I found these belts that are street legal according to the product text:
http://www.schrothracing.com/products/Competition/profi-asm/profi-II-asm

Any opinions?

[tumper93]

I looked at those a while back but the price is just too much! I realize they are DOT approved but does that really matter? If the other camlock harnesses are SFI approved and meet those specs then they are by far equal in my opinion to those for less money. Anything is better than the lap belts that were factory. I will be buying a set of the g-forces here real soon for mine.

[Overkill]

It all depends upon if you get stopped or not and how much of a pain the cop wants to be. Legally if they aren't DOT approved, you can get a ticket. One of those things that doesn't make much sense since the SFI belts are made to a very high standard and 40 year old seat belts might fail easier, but they don't see it that way.

[Steve Chryssos]

Here's how we sell them.
G-Force 5-Point Belt System (http://twistmachine.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=19)

[Roadrage David]

im looking for those kinda harnesses , but i need to mound them on a cross Bar that is conected inbetween the roll cage bars at the pacage tray!! so i need long shoulder straps!!!! can you help me out here ore point me out.. Tanks David

[Steve Chryssos]

Dave,
I'm having a little difficulty visualizing your setup, but it sounds like the shoulder harnesses would be way too long. The belts offer 50 inches of adjustability, but I don't recommend using anywhere near that length. While your setup sounds way better than mounting them to the floor behind the driver's seat, your design would probably yield too much belt stretch in impact. Shoulder harnesses need to be anchored to a harness bar that is located at shoulder height right behind the driver's seat. If it helps, please email me and I will reply with a mounting instruction pdf file.

[GoneIn420]

Since I'm in the market for harnesses for my Chevelle, I'm going to jump in this thread...

Like many of you, my car will be street driven often. While searching the web for different companies, I found these belts that are street legal according to the product text:
http://www.schrothracing.com/products/Competition/profi-asm/profi-II-asm

Any opinions?

I have a set of those belts, very nice indeed. The cam-lock is very easy to use, just like a seat belt button actually. Plug the belts in and twist to release, that easy. No detents, ie: 1, 2, 3 positions, just plug in then twist to release.

If your seat is tight or hard to get into, you may want to consider pull-UP lap belts, and pull-DOWN shoulder straps. I've noticed that in my Evo's Recaros, it is hard to pull down enough to get the lap belts tight, they always seem a bit loose. There is just not enough room between the belt and door jamb area to get enough pull. Now it would be a hell of a lot easier if they were the pull-UP version, just pull-up towards your body till they are tight. You will have a lot more leverage pulling up towards you rather than down away from you. Hope this helps a little, later.

[Roadrage David]

Dave,
I'm having a little difficulty visualizing your setup, but it sounds like the shoulder harnesses would be way too long. The belts offer 50 inches of adjustability, but I don't recommend using anywhere near that length. While your setup sounds way better than mounting them to the floor behind the driver's seat, your design would probably yield too much belt stretch in impact. Shoulder harnesses need to be anchored to a harness bar that is located at shoulder height right behind the driver's seat. If it helps, please email me and I will reply with a mounting instruction pdf file.

Streetfyt68 overhere is europe they ""used"" to have the shoulder straps mounted inbetween / middle of the rear seat ore bensh if you like ,on the rear fire wall if you can name it like that, ,
in the Raleigh type cars AND ore conected on a ""cross bar"" mounted ""inbetween"" the roll cage bars above the pacage tray!!. in line with the wholles of the seats where they go tru ,so yes i need long shoulder straps. They work!! and it will look the bisenis. fortunate i cant find them that long...... im not to worry about Beld stretsh with a 5 point harnas tho. i alredy have simmons wrap around belds and dont like them.

[Damn True]

The reason you can't find belts long enough for that configuration is that it's not a safe way to mount them.

You need to mount your belts closer to the seat back, at the appropriate angle, on a harness bar that is run across the main hoop of your roll cage.

[Steve Chryssos]

I certainly mean no disrespect. I'm in love with your car. As stated, perhaps I'm misunderstanding your mounting location. I found a pic of your interior which shows a cross bar that is more than acceptable. I'll try to post the pic. Is it the horizontal bar in the pic? Here goes--Hope the pic works.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=24289&d=1213810265

[Roadrage David]

Steve, its not that Bar in the picture you put on.
its in this picture where you see the mounts of the cross bar (that hassend been instaled yet) above the pacage tray. the distance would be about a foot ore foot and a halve longer. beld stretsh is not of any consirn. this was comon practise umongst the euro raliegh racers .same as when it was mounted inbetween the rear seat and back suport..ps tanks for the compl

[Roadrage David]

The reason you can't find belts long enough for that configuration is that it's not a safe way to mount them.

You need to mount your belts closer to the seat back, at the appropriate angle, on a harness bar that is run across the main hoop of your roll cage.

Thats not true im trying to find american Harness for my american build car. there are differend safty aspects in diferend parts of the world and eatch holds its own. whitsh one is beter is up for debate. it was good enoughf for raleigh raceing euro stijl(many many acsidends happed every race) . a sport bearly done in the usa. and bisieds it looks the bisenis:cool: the way i whant it.

[Damn True]

Seriously reconsider your thinking here.

http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/media/pdf/SafetyFirst9-03.pdf
http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/safety/safety.aspx?page=restraint_info



Looks should not be on your list of criteria.

[Roadrage David]

Thats what we call marketing right!!. what brands did they compeard there,s to ,where they German!! ore from the UK ore italy ore frensh ecetera ecetera. what tests did they do ,did they test them with small raliegh cars ore dtm stile racers ore whatever. ore Nascar and drag racers stile testing.

i cant think of any contignent but europe where there are more types of car raceing , then anywhere els is the world. thats where europe can teatsh the rest of the world a thing oftwo.
look i dont whant this to end up in a pissing contest. i just ask if there are shoulder belts/ harnasas that are long enoughf for what i need.
and i never claimd that i whent for looks first did i . no hard feelings just speaking out loud

[Damn True]

It's not marketing pal. It's Simpson Racing. It's well over 50 years of experience in building race car safety equipment. You'll find similar information provided by every reputable harness manufacturer and you'll find similar information in any prep book worth the paper it's written on. Most notably those from Carroll Smith.

You've been advised. You've been shown engineering data that supports it.

It's your neck (and/or basal skull fracture) do with it what you may.

[Roadrage David]

Damn true tank you fo your consirn, , But it is marketing!!!!! because its big bisenis. there are many ways to Rome, as there are many safety aspects from companys who claim there way is the best. all im looking for AGAIN is a safty harnas that has a 1 ore 2 feet longer shoulder straps. and ore a option to custom lenghten them.

[Damn True]

Horse to water.

[TitoJones]

David-

I agree with Simpson, G-Force, Sparco etc. You do not want to mount your belts that far back at that angle. Serious injury will occur in an accident. You'd be better off not using your harnesses if you got into a wreck if you decide to mount them back there; maybe the impact and lack of harness will allow you to be thrown clear of the wreckage.

Tyler

[Damn True]

Willians, Impact, The rulebooks of NASA, SCCA, FIA, CART and The US Air Force Aero-Med labs etc......

[gt1guy]

all im looking for AGAIN is a safty harnas that has a 1 ore 2 feet longer shoulder straps. and ore a option to custom lenghten them.

David,

Nobody makes them that way anymore. There was a time that they did, but that time has passed. Your going to be hard pressed to find some manufacture willing to custom make a set like you want. In fact there's no way they will. Not in the US and not overseas.

Kevin

[Roadrage David]

Found two euro raliegh companys who will make them no prob. one of them makes the harnas for Ferrarri.

[LS6 Tommy]

Since I'm in the market for harnesses for my Chevelle, I'm going to jump in this thread...

Like many of you, my car will be street driven often. While searching the web for different companies, I found these belts that are street legal according to the product text:
http://www.schrothracing.com/products/Competition/profi-asm/profi-II-asm

Any opinions?

Before I start, please don't view my following statements as any form of insult or slight to Schroth. They make a very good product.

IIRC, that model & all the Schroth Competition harnesses are not DOT approved and are not street legal in the USA. I may be wrong, but I think the "street legal" statement is for the UK/European market. The ones that are DOT approved for the US domestic market are the Rally series & possibly some other Schroth non-competition models.

Be advised that even though some of those models are indeed DOT approved, just because a product has a DOT approval doesn't prove it's legality for on-highway use. The DOT does not determine legality, just that that the product meets their standards. All it means is that the DOT has tested it & found it's "safe" to install in your vehicle-i.e. it won't cause an unsafe condition or damage to your car or other's property.

In many states only factory installed or approved replacement stock style seatbelts are legal. Most of the time you'll fail inspection just for having a harness if the stock belts are not present & they won't even look at any paperwork you may have showing the harness is DOT approved.

Tommy

[64Chevelle]

Found two euro raliegh companys who will make them no prob. one of them makes the harnas for Ferrarri.

Can you please give me contact information?

Extremely interesting thread since I have pretty much the same idea for the placement of my harness. The only difference is that the mounting point will be somewhat lower, immediately above the top of the rear backrest. The angle will then be between the recommended 0 and 15 degrees below shoulder harness seat holes.

My car didn't have any factory seat belts and still don't have it to this day... It's a death trap even in 30 mph.

My plan was to weld a good size tube across the car right behind the top of the rear seat and reinforce the welded ends. Then mount the shoulder straps to that tube and through the seat holes.

The idea was to have some easy and rear seat passenger friendly harness where I could choose to use just lapbelts for the front harness or full 4/5 point harness when going to the track or driving at higher speeds. For the rear seats I would just mount some lapbelts between the rear seat and backrest.

So, the big question is, what is the best option?
1. No seat belts like today? Not likely
2. Only lapbelts all around the car?
3. Full harness with shoulder straps mounted above the rear backrest.

I might add that being 6'7" I might end up mounting my seat a little further back than the stock location and will always have it in the most rearward position.

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks True !!