Truck Arms, Too Noisy or Too cool?

[JohnUlaszek]

So far we have one truck armed car that the owner thinks is too noisy but works really well.

Any thoughts?

[protour_chevelle]

What kind of noise is it? I'm lost.

-Matt

[RaceMan]

That's somthing I'd like to hear a little more on I almost bought one last summer for my 69 camaro. I've driven one on a race car a few times and they work pretty good there.

[Steve1968LS2]

So far we have one truck armed car that the owner thinks is too noisy but works really well.

Any thoughts?

Well Roberts long post and explanation has vanished so he will have to chime in again.

This all started when I relayed some information I OBSERVED and then my comments were described as "baseless" like I dreamed them up in some alcohol induced delusion, or that I did it with malice.. neither of which were fair or accurate.

I don't think Robert thinks it is TOO noisy just that is pretty noisy. He has no qualms about how well the system works and how well it performs but he built his car as a street/track car and put a lot of effort into making the car nice to drive.

Also, it really isn't fair to just dismiss his thoughts on this just because he is one guy. Especially given where his system was installed (ie. I doubt it's installer error)

I love the truck-arm system.. I love the performance aspect but there are trade offs to high performance. For instance really good brakes suitible for racing often squeel. You can put on lower performance pads and reduce the squeel.

Also, there are packaging issues with a truck-arm suspension. This has more to do with how the suspension works and is shaped. Can you run a full exhaust back behind the axel? Yes, but it requires a LOT of work which equals a lot of money. Personally I like how Robert exited the exhaust just ahead of the back tires. But it something that needs to be considered by someone wanting this system. Its all about compromises.

Please don't play it like I'm some anti-truckarm guy. Just relaying what I have seen. And as always, your results may vary :)

[protour_chevelle]

Again, what is this noise that is being made? Bushing noise, rubbing, what?

-Matt

[Poopy]

I'd love to hear feedback from anyone, I'm in the midst of building my own right now. Do most guys stick with rubber bushings? or do they use some space aged polymers...and is that the source of the noise?

Or maybe this is noisy? Or how did this work out?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Steve1968LS2]

Again, what is this noise that is being made? Bushing noise, rubbing, what?

-Matt

It has to do with the screw-jack system.. the best way to descibe it is a can of marbles being shook. This is only when hitting small bumps, ruts, lane dividers and such. On a smooth road it make no noise.

Like I said, hopefully Robert will see this and put in his opinion.

Oh, and contrary to the title of this thread it can be noisy AND cool ;)

[Poopy]

It has to do with the screw-jack system.. the best way to descibe it is a can of marbles being shook. This is only when hitting small bumps, ruts, lane dividers and such. On a smooth road it make no noise.

Like I said, hopefully Robert will see this and put in his opinion.

So if coilovers were used, no noise?

[stealthjr]

Ok, for those of you that did not get to read my original post (in response to others comments), that I posted in the wrong area...the moderator was nice enough to save it for me. (Thanks JP!)

I hope this will clear up the Truck Arm "rattle" issue since Steve's comments were based on riding in my car and my verbal complaints.

My car has been into Hot Rod's to Hell 2 or 3 times. First, to "PROPERLY" install their kit since the knucklehead I had install it originally did a poor job. (Not at HTH) I made it clear to Steve (owner) that I wanted him to do WHATEVER it took to re-install the HTH setup 100% to his standards and that his name was on it.
Once the car was on the road and driving it for sometime I became more and more unhappy about the MAJOR rattles coming from the back seat area. Although the suspension felt great, rode well, and handled even better...I called Steve to talk about the noise and also see about installing a roll cage in my car since I was getting ready for a big race. He told me there would be "some" noise because of the screw jacks but it should be bearable. He agreed to check out the noise and I agreed to have him install the roll cage. After picking up the car and driving it the 1 hour drive home...the rattles were still there with little or no improvement. I called Steve again to voice my displeasure and he offered to send me some rubber sleeves to quiet down the heim rods. Once I received these and installed them...they definitely helped...about 10% of the noise was gone.
To make a short story LONG...I have had atleast 6 conversations with Steve regarding the noise and the car has been at his shop for the noise issue. So, if you want to print this out or have him read it...none of this should be a surprise to Steve. He has made it clear that when he checked it out at his shop...nothing seemed out of the ordinary and he has never sounded surprised about my complaints...and he even said he was considering a redesign and has NEVER told me there should be NO noise. Only that it should be bearable. Well, I have laid a TON of Dynamat all over this car...both spray on and Xtreme and it still is LOUD!!! It is not just me being picky or anal or anything. The damn car handles great, looks good, and rattles like a bitch...PERIOD!
So, if your saying that the HTH setup should cause NO added rattles or noise...then I will be bringing my car to HTH for them to fix my NOISE 100% at no charge!
Is this what you are saying?

Bottom line in my opinion:
I have no problems with Steve or HTH...In fact, I think they make a great product for the "track" guy. But for someone looking for a quiet, daily driven, street car that handles great AND visits a road course every so often...I suggest they let him know the HTH setup makes a ton of noise before he plunks down $4k.
I'll be waiting for my phone call from Steve if HTH thinks the above can be fixed or corrected. If I never receive the phone call and the rear setup continues to cause the rattles...I will continue to tell everyone my opinion that...THE HTH SETUP IS A GREAT TRACK SUSPENSION BUT I DON'T RECOMMEND IT IF YOU WANT TO "DRIVE" THE CAR ON THE STREET.
Trust me...I want there to be a cure for this and if there is...I sure hope someone calls me!

See ya!

Robert

Now, here are my responses to the people of THIS thread.

JohnUlaszek...I "think it is too noisy" because NOBODY ever told me I was buying a can of marbles in my trunk when buying the HTH setup. I "think it is too noisy" because I put 6,000 miles a year on this car and EVERYTIME I drive it I feel like all of the hours and hundreds of dollars on sound deadener was a complete waste. I "think it is too noisy" because I know what "extra" noise sounds like when adding poly bushings or a panhard bar for example...and this sounds NOTHING like any of those.

protour_chevelle...throw your buddy in the trunk of your car with a can filled with marbles...EVERYTIME you hit the slightest imperfection in the road...tell him to shake the can!

RaceMan...if you are in SoCal...shoot me an e-mail and I will take you for a spin. I drove a Winston Cup Truck at 180+mph around California Speedway and never heard the supsension rattle either. :icon_razz

Steve1969LS1...couldn't have said it better myself I don't think.

Poopy...My understanding is that it is from the "screw jacks" which has the adjustment tube welded to the trunk floor. Everytime the car hits a bump...the "screw jack" shakes within the tube causing it to reasonate throughout the rear of the vehicle. (Gosh I hope that explanation made any sense)

Folks, I like the way the stuff handles and the product "seems" to be made very well. However, if what I am hearing is indeed the HTH setup causing the noise...If I had to do it all over again...I WOULD NOT BUY IT

This is my opinion and mine alone. Trust me...I would love for these rattles to be caused by something COMPLETELY separate from the HTH setup...but since Steve from HTH has not been able to tell me my rattles are from anything else the few times my ride was at his shop...I'll have to stick with my story.

Finally...for anyone that cars...here is an OLD, OUTDATED link on my car. pages 2 and 3 show a few shots of the HTH stuff.
http://www.irnoyfb.com/rwmm69/

[Camaro Zach]

I'd love to hear feedback from anyone, I'm in the midst of building my own right now. Do most guys stick with rubber bushings? or do they use some space aged polymers...and is that the source of the noise?

Or maybe this is noisy? Or how did this work out?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
you pretty much have to use the rubber bushings because in the range of motion it naturally binds up on the front mounting points for the 2 arms on the crossmember. if you had something solid then it would cause it to bind more and have alot of resistance.

[gchandler]

Here is my post from the other threard:


It is important to note that I have a two chevelles and you have a camaro. It is possible that the camaro, being a different animal has a factor in play that is causing your noise problem that I don't encounter in my car. I have only factory style sound insulation in my car, but I run a full rear seat with all the factory equiptment. (heavy cardboard "firewall", jute in the upper rear seat, tar paper stuff under the lower rear seat, etc)

1.As far as sound insulation goes, do you have a jute barrier on the rear firewall between your trunk and the interior of your car?

The reason I ask about the jute and rear firewall is because I have a theory about what may be occuring with your car.

2. Do you think you are hearing the springs?
This might be possible if the screw jack tubes are acting like speaker ports and projecting all the road noise from under the rear of your car into the truck. This matter could be amplified by your liberal application of dynamat turning the trunk of your car into a large speaker box.

If you are running any type of speaker ports between your trunk and the passenger compartment this effect could be further amplified.

I have not seen that car with an interior installed so I am not sure if this is a shot in the dark, but when I last saw the car this situation was present. I also would like to point out that Dynamat is designed to dampen vibration noise created by panels, it does not absorb or block sound. You need to use a jute style sound insulator to absorb sound. The inside of a sound stage is a good example to look to for this. The walls are covered with very light weight open cell foam.

Feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] if you would like to discuss this further.

3. And just for anyone that is interested I found this site about a guy who makes a rather ambitious effort to quiet down his hummer.

http://www.amghummer.com/Improvements/Insulate_diesel/Insulate.htm

[68phx]

I don't post much, usually just hang in the shadows...but this post caught my attention.

As for truck arms being noisy?..

A truck arm system itself should not create noise or rattles. But... the way the system is packaged and installed could cause rattling or noise issues.

Stealthjr- I looked at the pictures on your web page and it looks like you may have a few other issues that could be causing your noise problems.
Hope you get it worked out.

I saw a pretty trick truck arm set up on the products page over at
www.metalworksperformance.com (http://www.metalworksperformance.com/) site, that's worth taking a look at. I think there is a lot of good to be said for the performance you get with a truck arm suspension.
:jawdrop: nice fab work- there's room for exhaust there!

[F1 Speed]

Hey guys, I have seen the MWPE set-up in person and it is increadible.
The way that this system is designed and packaged is well thought out and I have no doubt that there will be any noise from this set-up. You have to see it in person to really appreciate the attention to detail.

Wait until you see what this set-up is going into next. Maybe someone from MWPE will chime in and give us the latest info on the other projects that they are working on.

[69boo307]

I have the HTH truckarm kit on my '69. It does make some noise, I've traced most of the rattles to the heim joints on the panhard rod though, and with the panhard crossmember welded into the frame, and firm poly body bushings, it basically turns the entire truck of the car into a big amplifier for these noises.
I have also noticed some minor noise from the screw jack setup, but nothing severe.
I just wrote off the noises as a side effect of having a non-stock suspension with heim joints.

then again, with dynomax bullets and the side-exiting pipes, I can't hear much of anything in the car anyway :D

[JohnUlaszek]

Stealthjr,
How did you car do at the Silver State Classic? Can you describe the handling characteristics of the car at speed?

[68protouring454]

also, with peformance, people have said they do like the sound of the spin tech side exhaust, but those have been guys with an x pipe, i see you have a h-pipe and the side exit spintech, do you like it??
jake

[stealthjr]

I hope I don't forget anybody...

68PHX...you can see a "few other issues that could be causing my noise problems"???? I sure would appreciate it fi you could share your thoughts as I would love yo hear them.

69boo307...you pretty much described it perfectly. Steve from HTH sent me some rubber insulators for the heim ends and that helped...but the noise is still being "amplified" a lot louder than I'm willing to live with. It simply is NOT a quiet...barely kind of there rattle especially on California highways!

JohnUlaszek...the car worked wonderfully! Our GPS showed 160mph through the speed zone and she felt extremely steady and safe. Our average speed through the 90 mile race was 125mph and the car steady as a rock!

68protouring454...I really love the SPintech stuff. They built a custom exhaust for my 67 Camaro that runs 9's in the 1/4 mile as well as this 69. It is not quiet...that is for sure. :cheers:

See ya!

Robert