EFI questions need advice

[Van B]

I have sold my carbureted LS2 and am building an L92 for my Camaro. I want to have a little bit of wow factor when you open the hood so I am not wanting to use a factory style plastic intake. I have posted elsewhere about some of the fabricated intakes (Hogan's, Precision Metalcraft, et al) and have heard about the perceived drawbacks on HP and torque. I am leaning toward one of these or similar because my understanding is a MAF system will give better driveability once tuned.

I don't want to use a carb intake machined for injection for many of the same reasons as I don't want to use the plastic intake. I know Jeff Schwartz has been fooling MAF systems with the carb intake. I am not fond of that look either.

People have mentioned the Harrop or Kinsler cross ram system which I like the looks of, and you don't see many of them. (probably for good reason, $). I assume these two run as speed density systems.

My question is, assuming I am not terribly misinformed, is a MAF system that superior to a properly tuned speed density setup? I have read that one advantage to the MAF deal is that it will adapt to engine modifications. This does not really concern me either, since I don't intend to tinker with a lot of engine mods once it is built.

I am trying to understand my options since I am fairly new to injection.

[WILWAXU]

Saw an interesting new intake in the Edelbrock booth today. It's a dual 4's setup. Just something else to make the LS motor's not look like an LS:lmao:

MAF setups are easier to tune. But most good tuners can tune a car for Speed Density to run just as well, if not better.

If you are looking for WoW factor, I say look into a individual throttle body setup:
http://kinsler.com/NewProducts/Pics/JPG/LS_SB_Vert_Web.jpg
or
http://www.kinsler.com/NewProducts/Pics/JPG/LS7XRam_Silver_CarbonWeb.jpg

[camcojb]

My question is, assuming I am not terribly misinformed, is a MAF system that superior to a properly tuned speed density setup?

nope.

Jody

[1969CamaroRS]

I am not sure I would say a MAF system is completely superior to a speed density system. But a MAF is certainly a more accurate way of measuring the amount of air that is coming into the engine, rather than inferring or calculating the air flow from a MAP sensor.

This is why the OEMs have moved almost exclusively towards MAF sensors. Also if you make significant changes to a speed density motor it is going to require a complete reprogram of the system, not necessarily true on a MAF system.

Here is a good article in Carcraft about this subject:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/electronic_fuel_injection/index.html

[camcojb]

my point is that you will not be able to tell any difference in driving the two systems, as long as each has the proper tune. I don't think the maf system is that much more forgiving to changes, at least in my experience. Engine combo changes always required me to re-tune the maf system just like in speed density.

MAF makes sense with OEM stuff with their smog regulations, mileage goals, etc. they have to meet. But on mild or wild cars I've never been able to feel any smoothness/driveability differences between the two.

Jody

[1969CamaroRS]

Camcojb your certainly right about drivability in both systems with the proper tune. I'm curious in your experience which was easier to tune MAF or Speed Density? Which was easier to keep tuned as changes to a motor/build came up?

Granted I am not sure the added cost of a MAF system for hot rods is worth it (they seem to be a lot more expensive). I think I'll end up putting a speed density system on the 69 Camaro I am building now (going to get it running and on the road with a carb), barring prices dropping significantly on MAF systems.

[camcojb]

Camcojb your certainly right about drivability in both systems with the proper tune. I'm curious in your experience which was easier to tune MAF or Speed Density? Which was easier to keep tuned as changes to a motor/build came up?

Granted I am not sure the added cost of a MAF system for hot rods is worth it (they seem to be a lot more expensive). I think I'll end up putting a speed density system on the 69 Camaro I am building now (going to get it running and on the road with a carb), barring prices dropping significantly on MAF systems.

they're about the same, although maf takes longer if you do it correctly. With a maf system you also have VE tables which are used in case the maf fails. Many tuners don't tune them but you should. You shut the maf off and then tune the ve tables, so this is exactly what speed density tuning is. But then you have to turn the maf back on and tune the maf tables. So there is extra tuning with maf if you do it properly.

I'm not trying to talk you out of maf at all, it's a great way to go and is a bit more forgiving as you said to engine combo changes. Most of my builds are forced induction, and I much prefer to tune those in speed density, as it's very easy to peg the maf and then tuning is sketchy at best (my opinion) through the pe tables, not real solid control anymore. This is with GM stuff, Fords have some advantages in good rescaled mafs for added airflow that work very well (Cobra's and Lightnings for example). But the GM ones are hit and miss in my opinion.

Jody

[Van B]

Great info. Thanks guys.

[megaladon6]

is there any way to run both systems? i know GM does it quite a bit. i kind of like the idea of the self adjustment of the MAF and the greater load accuracy of the MAP.

[camcojb]

is there any way to run both systems? i know GM does it quite a bit. i kind of like the idea of the self adjustment of the MAF and the greater load accuracy of the MAP.

the GM MAF systems also have a map sensor, but they're still considered maf not speed density.

Jody

[1969CamaroRS]

the GM MAF systems also have a map sensor, but they're still considered maf not speed density.

Jody

You beat me to saying the same thing.

I haven't looked that closely at the aftermarket MAF systems to see if they also have MAP sensors as well, but I imagine as their popularity grows they will fall in step with the OEM systems.