AERODYNAMICS Second Generation Camaro (79-81)

[maldo]

How effect is the stock aerodynamics the second gen camaros i am focusing on my 80 Z/28?

I have owned many cars over the years and I can tell you some of them are down right scary at high speed just to mention one was my 85 LX mustang ex-state trooper car it was Frisbee I could feel the front end lift above 135 like I was going to take off just to mention one car … on the other hand my 97 camaro z/28 was sold like a rock even at speeds above 160…

So for my 80 z/28
How the aerodynamics for my 28 year old car
Is the stock spoilers really effective at high speed etc what do you guys do to improve the set up…

Note: the one thing I have always hated about these cars is the cowl shake(second gen guys know what I am talking about) I know it’s a problem for these car and there is braces that can be used etc but just looking for input …

[Lowend]

the factory front spoiler does a pretty good job of controlling the car at 100+ but as with all cars extending the spoiler closer the to ground will help.

The rear spoiler (the tall one) also makes a difference but if you look back at some older road race cars you will find the occasional whale-tail

I'm not sure if anyone has really windtunneled a 2nd gen in recent years

[Damn True]

Didn't Freiburger/Hot-Rod do quite a bit of work on their 2nd-Gen (albeit late second Gen) salt car?

[David Pozzi]

Read this: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/113_0703_car_aerodynamics/index.html
Also search on "Project Red Hat" That's the LSR Camaro project they did.
David

[HWYSTR]

Actually, late 2nd gen f-bodies aren't too bad, and the frontal surface area on the 79-81 is improved over the previous years. I've done 165+ in a 79 Formula and just under 180 in a 71 T/A, both felt reasonably stable. (The 71 was considerably lowered, 79 stock).

I've seen some add a stiff rubber piece to the bottom of the front air dam and swear it helps over 140. These people also did skirts out of the same material on the rocker pinch rail, though not sure how much that helps (they seemed to think it did).

The stock spoilers are effective, and I recall an actual number for the downforce created by the rear spoiler at 80 was kind of impressive. The fender extractors too, even if some argue the fact. The 79-81 camaro extractors are functional, and reduce lift considerably.

Springs and chassis stiffening seems to be the best way to gain high speed stability, and probably advised at anything over 130. Cowl shake can be limited with frame connectors, and firewall braces are the next step up. Look at the successful Herb Adams VSE 79 T/A, even though that had a full cage. (from a aero point of view).

How fast do you want to go?

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[WS6]

Everything I have read about the late 2nd Gen TAs was that their aerodynamics were very good and very much functional. The cars in 79 were rpm limited not aerodynamically limited. I'd imagine the Z28 should be similar. This information of course was from test reports back in those years. So how well does it stack up against modern cars and physics theory I'm not sure.

[Lowend]

They weren't horrific... but to compare to say a C6 Vette, well it's not a comparison

[WS6]

Reading Bob's posts on XXXLR also shows that the physics have changed and slant shapes "cutting" through the wind aren't the way to go either. Rounded shapes apparently are better. I believe they create better flow and less turbulence than sharp lines.

Something else I forgot to add was that the aftermarket stepped up with these pieces called foilers. They were wheel well spoilers for the back side of the well openings. I had a set on a previous 79TA. Personally, I dislike them greatly. I'm not sure if they made them for the camaros. They did work and the design idea of keeping the wheel inside the body line is correct. Look at NASCAR or almost any modern salt racer.

[HWYSTR]

I'm sure CD numbers can be found on all F-bodies with enough searching in the right places.

[Takid455]

In my searches , I found that the 2nd gen f-body has a CD of .35 w/ a frontal area of about 22.5 sf. one reference said it may be .32 which is comparable to a C4 vette. not bad. sadly the car w/ the best aerodynamics if the late 80's early 90's chevy lumina w/ a cd of .29.

[BonzoHansen]

In my searches , I found that the 2nd gen f-body has a CD of .35 w/ a frontal area of about 22.5 sf. one reference said it may be .32 which is comparable to a C4 vette. not bad. sadly the car w/ the best aerodynamics if the late 80's early 90's chevy lumina w/ a cd of .29.
I thought early 3rd gen T/As has a lower cd than .29

Would closing up the grilles on the 2nd gens improve high speed stability?

[HWYSTR]

Closing the grills on the 70-73s would obviously have a more dramatic effect than closing them on a 79-81, though how much it would effect or improve high speed stability isn't clear. I bet it would help some, over say 140, but think it would have more of an effect on top speed than stability. I guess is would cause front-end lift at greater speeds, and closing the grills would most likely have a positive effect on that.

Maldo - Again, how fast do you want to go? Are you shooting for the magic 200? Look at the mule, it did what, 225+? No grills blocked on that, and that was a 1st gen. If you were dealing with a 'frizbee' at 135, you've got other issues than aerodynamics.


.

[406 Q-ship]

In my searches , I found that the 2nd gen f-body has a CD of .35 w/ a frontal area of about 22.5 sf. one reference said it may be .32 which is comparable to a C4 vette. not bad. sadly the car w/ the best aerodynamics if the late 80's early 90's chevy lumina w/ a cd of .29.


I thought early 3rd gen T/As has a lower cd than .29

Would closing up the grilles on the 2nd gens improve high speed stability?

Those Cd # are they for the 70-73, 74-77, or the 78-81 Camaro? I'm sure the later 2nd gens cut the air much better, the air dams on the front of the Camaros are too soft for any real speed, it would need reinforcement. The 3rd Gen Camaro according to SCTA racers is cleaner than the 3rd gen birds, but I believe the 79-81 Bird has got to be a little better than the 78-81 Camaro. The 2nd Gen car probably has a huge frontal area compared to the later generations.

[LS6 Tommy]

I don't have any other info, but I do know the aero package on the 2nd gen Z-28 was supposedly "stolen" from The T/A engineering team by Chevy during the development stage. It's been said that the bolt-ons were good for something like 80# of downforce @ around 60 MPH.

Tommy

[dcozzi]

Reading Bob's posts on XXXLR also shows that the physics have changed and slant shapes "cutting" through the wind aren't the way to go either. Rounded shapes apparently are better. I believe they create better flow and less turbulence than sharp lines.

I have noticed that, in the rain, there is a definite "jetwash" pattern of water mist behind my car. Like 2 waves behind you, rolling towards the center from the sides. Way different than the pattern behind the '87 GTA I used to have which was a "ocean wave" pattern rolling towards the rear tail lights. I wonder if that was because of the wedge shape of the GTA coming to an abrupt end at the rear.

Interesting topic. I read about the downforce created by the front spoiler of my 1970 RS and it was considerable at high speed. Even the rear "shorty" spoiler created some good downforce.

[maldo]

does anyone know the aerodynamic Drag coefficient for the Camaro

[Tig Man]

Makes a ton of difference in frontal area!

Mark

[atomicjoe23]

Someone once posted the .pdf of the aero research Chevy did for the 2nd Gen F-Body, but didn't use. . .and the engineers passed it along to Pontiac. Pontiac did use the info on the 2nd-Gen TA I believe. . .

. . .does anyone have this .pdf saved or have a link to it???

[David Pozzi]

Some info https://www.camaros.net/forums/13-performance/16452-drag-coefficient-69-camaro.html

[oleyeller]

Check out the BC Racing Salt car, with the Classic Gas Coupe record. No body mods allowed except for the front spoiler. This Red 79 went 277 mph on the GPS out the back door on it's record run. Aero has not been the problem so far... but there has to be an aero wall there somewhere. Getting power down is the biggest issue so far. This is one bas a$$ hot rod.

[David Pozzi]

I'd like to remind you that even though those cars have stock bodywork, they can shift weight internally to help keep the car on the ground. So if front lift was an issue, they could place weight up front to counter it. I'm not saying this Camaro did do this, I have no knowledge of that car, but I've been to Bonneville speed week and seen many that did. Some have no radiator and use a water tank onboard. Many had extra weight up front.

Bonneville 2004 pics by me.

Note this Camaro has a tank in the passenger compartment that has two braided hoses connecting to the radiator lower hose area. I believe the radiator has to be in place but does not have to be functioning. I saw one car with an intake cool air duct running right through the core! Engine is set back to aid rear traction which must be poor with no spoiler and narrow tires.

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[David Pozzi]

Three Second gens. Didn't get as many pics of them
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[HellPhish89]

Check out the BC Racing Salt car, with the Classic Gas Coupe record. No body mods allowed except for the front spoiler. This Red 79 went 277 mph on the GPS out the back door on it's record run. Aero has not been the problem so far... but there has to be an aero wall there somewhere. Getting power down is the biggest issue so far. This is one bas a$$ hot rod.

The question really is... how much power is being used to overcome the current drag? There is a limit but it could probably be mitigated with a front spoiler that creates vorticies to seal off the areas under the doors.

[HWYSTR]

The question really is... how much power is being used to overcome the current drag? There is a limit but it could probably be mitigated with a front spoiler that creates vorticies to seal off the areas under the doors.

All of it. That's how much. If there was no resistance, the only limitation would be RPM and gear ratio.

[Zspoiler]

There are a number of ways to improve the "aero" depending on what you want to do with the car.The SCCA and IMSA race cars or the era are the most extreme with the wing and front spoiler .On mine I added the front spoiler from an IMSA car the rear factory "flairs" from a1979-81 Trans Am the rear front from a 1981 Z-28 .And the cowl hood design from a 1969 Camaro. There are those who modified the factory 1979-81 front spoiler with a "splitter" .Then there are the earlier cars like the 1973 Camaro by the Roadster Shop called "Rampage "for reference .There are a number of HP books dealing on the subject.Good luck to you on what ever you do.