Converting a Pro-Street car into a Pro-Touring car?

[Steve1968LS2]

Thoughts?

It seems that you can get pro-street cars pretty cheap.. how tough to convert them to pro-touring..

They generally have tubs.. sure they are large tubs but you can certainly run smaller g-machine tires. You would probley want to put a wider rearend in there though..

They also usually have cages and are pretty stiff.

The rest is iffy but so long as they aren't drag race disc brakes you should be able to use them as well..

Case in point:
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/1/8/77830718.htm

Many of them have healthy motors as well.. maybe put in a less lopey cam and do some changes.. seems like you could "re-invent" the car for not a lot of $$$..

Someone has to save these poor cars ;)

Thoughts?

[Restomod]

28k is not exactly a cheap car,I bought a 70 Camaro Pro Street roller for only 4K it had nice paint, black int., Weld Drag Stars,rci seats, fuel cell, 9" rear,coil overs ,ladder bars, 4 wheel disc, cage ect. That would have been a great car to do this to,my boss ownes it now its Butternut yellow with a great 454...only 12K

[Rick Dorion]

Given the right price, I think it's a good platform. As mentioned, many good items are already present. A more suitable suspension and maybe brakes and you could be off and running.

[ProdigyCustoms]

It may be cheaper to convert a Pro Streeter then a stocker. However, most Pro Streeters that are cheap are usually rough and edgey to say the least. Often ex race cars with head lights and tailights. Not a bad idea though if a deal was found. When you consider a roll cage and tubs alone can tie up 3, 4 , 5 grand, it could be a win.

[trapin]

Someone has to save these poor cars ;)
I'm glad you and I see eye-to-eye on that subject. There's a lot I could say but my father always told me, "If you have nothing nice to say......". :smoke:

[Steve Chryssos]

From a magazine standpoint, I think it's an awesome idea.

[Steve1968LS2]

28k is not exactly a cheap car,I bought a 70 Camaro Pro Street roller for only 4K it had nice paint, black int., Weld Drag Stars,rci seats, fuel cell, 9" rear,coil overs ,ladder bars, 4 wheel disc, cage ect. That would have been a great car to do this to,my boss ownes it now its Butternut yellow with a great 454...only 12K

That was just an example.. I have seen pretty nice PS cars for as low as $20k. They are already tubbed, caged and in many cases have a pretty stout motor. Sell off the drag race wheels and tires to pay for some g-Machine running gear and voila.. Pro-Touring.

Well you get the idea.. This was just an example to illustrate a point (can you illustrate something without pictures?? ;)

[Steve1968LS2]

It may be cheaper to convert a Pro Streeter then a stocker. However, most Pro Streeters that are cheap are usually rough and edgey to say the least. Often ex race cars with head lights and tailights. Not a bad idea though if a deal was found. When you consider a roll cage and tubs alone can tie up 3, 4 , 5 grand, it could be a win.

Well I know some mags like to say Pro-Street is comming back but I commonly see PS cars that have $60k in them going for less than $30k.. the workmanship is pretty good. I was just thinking that many of the systems have a commonality with Pro-Touring. And you would have NO trouble fitting 345's out back :)

[toddshotrods]

I think the concept of converting a P/S car to a P/T car is sound. The problem, as I see it, is in buying a car from someone else and "making it yours". My friend insists that this is the way to go, and goes on and on about how much you save. In most cases, I take the opposite viewpoint. Over the past four years:

He bought Vega #1, a back-halved P/S car. Found out the motor wasn't right and spent a good chunk of money developing his 434 small block. That was before he ever got around to fixing the things he didn't like about the car. The 434 changed things because it was way too much motor for the chassis. He found a full-tube chassis ex-race car, with lights, a good title, and no motor/trans. The 434 went in, and he sold the old car (with no motor/trans) for about half of what he paid for it. The first motor is still in his office, so he lost a bunch of money. Now he's in the process of going over the rest of the car to suit his tastes.

He tells people he has about 25K in the car, because he only counts what he has in it as it sits. I was there from the beginning and I saw him actually spend about 40K. It's getting ready to get some custom fiberglass work on the front clip, new paint, interior, etc. I would bet on a set of new wheels within a couple years. He's doing the paint himself (bodyshop owner) so he won't count what the paint job is worth, just the materials. I estimate that when it's all said and done he will exceed 60K easily (labor included). Actually, the more I think about it, he's getting into the really expensive stuff now so it could be a lot higher. I think he could have done the same thing, and most likely better, by starting from scratch.

If a guy sees a car he really likes and can live with that car pretty much how it is, I say go for it. I have seen very very few cars that I wouldn't end up changing to suit my tastes. Most custom cars were customized for a particular individual, and unless you happen to have the exact same taste and preferences...

I'm not saying it's not a good idea, just one that should be approached carefully. You gotta get the pencil and paper out (computer and spreadsheet for some) and figure out what it's really going to cost you, compared to building from "scratch". For someone who currently owns and P/S car and wants to convert it, I think it's a great idea.

[trapin]

Well I know some mags like to say Pro-Street is coming back...
Coming back??!!! Hell, it just left a couple of years ago. That was SOME short vacation. I have to think this is more 'wishful thinking' on behalf of these editors. Don't forget, there are still a good plenty of 'the old guard' out there that have still not openly accepted the idea of the G-Machine. If it does come back, it'll have a lot of our trends adapted to it and look drastically different.

[63SW]

Comming from a guy that LIKES the Pro Street stuff and has a 72 camaro that has been mini tubbed , roll cage and NUMEROUS other mods , i think its a good idea. :icon996:

After finding this site recently and reading the posts , seeing pics of all the outstanding rides here , IM THINKING OF TURNNING MY 72 INTO A PT car .

Now what do i do with the 8-71 blown 510BBC if i do ?
I dont see to many PT cars with that kind of combo.


Heres the car , WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ?

[Steve Chryssos]

Beautifal car. I'd put a 7" wheel with a 235 tire up front and otherwise leave it alone.

[69speed]

My car was a recently "restored" pro-street car when I bought it last December. It is a 69 RS/SS 396 convertible. An awesome find I thought for the price I paid. I am satisfied with my purchase, but it has cost me more than expected and I expected to spend alot :pat:

I have no regrets, but when I build another car I will start with something stock. Modifying modifications is complicated and just completely cutting it apart and starting over is time consuming and expensive.
I had wonderful ideas of how I would use the Dana 60 rear and 4link setup that was there, but when I got the car home I realized this just was not gonna work out for me. (5:38 gears!!!) It was gonna cost too much to modify and rebuild this rear and it weighs just too much anyway.
Not to mention the tubs kept the top from opening all the way so they had to be modified. I am getting arear seat in it too while I'm at it though.
I could go on and on but you get the point. Surprises suck.

The thing I appreciate the most about my car, since it is my first build, is that it was all hacked up before I got it so I don't feel I am messing anything up as I butcher it ever more:) It would make me sick to be learning on a pristine 69.

I say encourage newbies like me to convert these PS cars, you learn ALOT and whatever you end up with is an improvement:)

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I think it's a pretty good idea to convert an old pro-streeter into a pt'er. When I was car shopping, and things were looking pretty grim with respect to finding a solid car, I came really close to buying an Ex-drag car '69 that had already been mini-tubbed. It was a rolling shell, so it was pretty cheap, around $3500, I think. I ultimately decided not to buy the car for fear of the suspension being too chopped up, and also relying on someone else's fab work. I think if you find the right Pro-Street car, you could convert it to Pro-touring relatively easy. Although, it may not be so easy on the wallet, since usually the biggest bucks on a pt car are spent on the drivetrain, wheels, suspension and brakes and I would venture a guess that any of the items on a pro-street car would be less than optimal on a pro-tourer.

[Bill Howell]

Now what do i do with the 8-71 blown 510BBC if i do ?
I dont see to many PT cars with that kind of combo.

I done told you one time. Just through all that junk you don't want in a pile and bring it with you when you come down here next time.
I know your stuff is right so I will give you 50 cents on the dollar,sight unseen. :lmao:

[Steve1968LS2]

Comming from a guy that LIKES the Pro Street stuff and has a 72 camaro that has been mini tubbed , roll cage and NUMEROUS other mods , i think its a good idea. :icon996:

After finding this site recently and reading the posts , seeing pics of all the outstanding rides here , IM THINKING OF TURNNING MY 72 INTO A PT car .

Now what do i do with the 8-71 blown 510BBC if i do ?
I dont see to many PT cars with that kind of combo.


Heres the car , WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ?

So long as the motor isn't sticking out of the hood you are golden.. toss on some wide fronts and more appropriate backs, tweak up the suspensing and have the best of both worlds :)

Although that cowl hood may be tough to see around at track day ;)

Nice car by the way..

[Tiger]

The car is beautiful and probably even nicer with some bigger wheels.

USAZR1 did this to his Camino, it was a Prostreet and he changed it to protouring.

I like your idea of 28K being cheap.

Ciao
André

[Steve1968LS2]

I like your idea of 28K being cheap.

Ciao
André

Cheap is realtive ;)

I meant, you could buy the cars cheaper (in some cases) than it would cost to build.

[Air Daddy]

Here's a old PS car from Texas that's had the PT treatment.

[trapin]

63SW.....looks like it hauls ass. My '68 used to be set up just like that when I was causing trouble down in Detroit about 15 years ago. I say your car is teetering on the edge of being Pro-Street but probably falls a little closer to Resto-Mod. Tighten the suspension a little (bushings, shocks, sway bars) go 18x8's in the front and 19x12's in the back with 335 rubber and she'll make a nice little cruiser that can mop up in the 1320 when needed. Sweet car. I love 2nd gens. :icon996:

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's a old PS car from Texas that's had the PT treatment.

Now THAT is what I am talking about.. know the owner of that car?

[Air Daddy]

Now THAT is what I am talking about.. know the owner of that car?

I don't know him personally, his name is Tommy Angelle of Katy Texas.
I wish I could find pics of how it looked before the update.
I'll keep looking through the old shoe box full of pics.
I can't really remember how big the rear tires were back in the old days,
but the car definitely was not pro-touring back then.
Huge improvement!

[63SW]

Thanks for the compliments ( No 1/2 off sales here .dammit Bill :spank2: )

the car is border line street car with the eng thats in it . its a 618hp 406sb with 6in rods , healthy little cam , dart iron eagle heads , brodix intake and a 1050 dom. ( streetable , just expensive filling the cell with 112octaine ) .and has a Bigshot NOS kit set 300 hp pills.
YEP , it will scoot!
it has a turbo 400 and a ford 9" back braced , ladderbar ,coilovers good axels and 5/8 pso stock studs.

Interior is in line for redo but i have already added a set of corbeau style seats that i really like .( except when i hit the nitrous button and the damn seat slid all the way back cause it wasnt locked real good )

i would like to see what it would look like with a different tire and wheel combo on it but dont know anyone around that has anything i could mock up with.

Anyone with one of those computer programs that could give me a idea ?

I think 17x8 on front would be ok but not sure
I would also like to drop the front about 2 inches and the back about 3 if i did it so it would be slammed on the ground.
I figure 2 in drop spindles in front would do the trick and the back would be easy with the adjustability of the coilovers

( here i go again, switching my plans :pat: . I need to FOCUS on the 69 convert for the power tour)

[Bill Howell]

i would like to see what it would look like with a different tire and wheel combo on it but dont know anyone around that has anything i could mock up with.
I think 17x8 on front would be ok but not sure


Are you bringing this car to the Grand run in April? Between the camaro and the malibu, I have a couple different offset options in 17X8 we could try.

BTW Since you aint in a selling mood, if you like my wheels, maybe we could do some tradin :naughty:
Seriously, we could try them on for size if you bring it.

[gauder]

I would think that a Pro Street car that has had its 4-link designed around a set of 31" tires would need some re-engineering to "work" as a Pro-Touring car. Sure it would be easy to pull off the look by just switching the tires and rims, but it would require a bit more work to actually have a great handling car. Just my 2 cents.

[63SW]

Actually Bill , i hope to bring the 69 camaro convert .
Have a few things slowing me down right now though...
Seems the FLU is attacking us all here.
Ive had it for a week so ,so no work has gotten done this week and the guy helping me with the work on the new rear end is sick now .

I hope to have the engine put together this week since i have the heads back from the engine builder but its so damn cold here i just dont want to go out to the pole building and work on it. ( NO HEAT OUT THERE YET)

Maybe i can get a friend to come and he can haul it down with my truck and trailer and i can drive the convert.

I would be interested in the wheels you have though , depending on what style they are , even for the convert.
At this time , i am going to use the Original 15" Mickey Thompson wheels i have, just for the Nastalgic purpose since i scored a NOS set of M/T caps on ebay last week and only $102 in the orig box.

I agree , being set up as a drag car , the rear suspenssion may not be the best suited for handling .
If i just use as a street cruiser with the PT look , I could enjoy it for the summer and TEAR INTO IT NEXT WINTER!

[USAZR1]

USAZR1 did this to his Camino, it was a Prostreet and he changed it to protouring.
Ciao
André

I paid $8K for my 69 El Camino prostreeter,,then spent another $10K on rolling stock,Viper T56,and chassiswork from Joe Wilson Race Cars.
Just click on the link in my sig to see my car's progression.

[Nine Ball]

Hmmm, if I can turn my Pro-Tour car into a Pro-Street looking ride, it should be just as easy to go the other direction too! lol

http://www.ls1tech.com/69Camaro/drag01.jpg

Tony

[USAZR1]

Hmmm, if I can turn my Pro-Tour car into a Pro-Street looking ride, it should be just as easy to go the other direction too! lol
http://www.ls1tech.com/69Camaro/drag01.jpg
Tony

Maybe,maybe not. Switching from a prostreet 48" wide 9" to a protouring Fab 9 with custom axles,Baer disc brakes,and Strange coilovers wasn't very easy nor cheap. :rotfl:

[rocketman]

i am looking to change my 37 ford in to a little more streetable ride not really pro touring just a better handling street car.33x19 mt dont handle that great.looking at 345 35 19's or 345 45 18 the new mt radial bigs look good too now.its the 632 and lenco i havent decide what to do with.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am curious what is considered Pro Street on this board. To me, Pro Street is Steam rollers and 55 gallon barrel halves for tubs and the motor sticking through the hood like a Rat Fink Tee Shirt. It sounds like this group places mini tub 10, 11" tire cars running skinny's up front as Pro Street? like the nice blue Camaro earlier in the post.
If this is true, and these small tired cars are considered Pro Street, I have to say Florida is way behind the times because we have plenty of these projects around. There actually has been a push in the last few years for clean, 4" Cowl hooded, all Steel, mini tub 10 to 12" tire, stock wheel opening, type cars similar to our street racer. These type of cars continue to show up, especially Fox body mustangs, later model Mustangs, and of coarse early Camaro's. The current push is even more towards running these cars on pump gas and making them truly street cars that can travel somewhere without a tanker of race fuel in tow.
What we are seeing here is hardly any Drag only race cars popping up, and more and more very fast street cars. It is not uncommon to go to the track and see street cars that are much faster then gutted race only cars.
The days of wild full tube chassis, monster tired, 14/71 blown, glass bodied Pro Streeters do seem to be mostly behind us. I do not group the for mentioned cars into that class.
With Hot Rod doing the pump gas drags, Year One is doing something similar at their show, and PHR apparently has something going according to a blurb I read in the mag, I do not see this type of vehicle as dead. I also do not see Pro Street cars being selected to participate for these events.
G machines are hot no doubt, but I will bet for every (1) G machine project going on here in Florida, there are still at least (2) Street Racers being built.
Then again, you guy's out west are always so far ahead of us, LOL!

[Bill Howell]

Frank,
That is an excellent point. I have always felt Pro-Street was a car, usually a current or former race car that is barely street legal. While it has tag, lights and insurance, its real purpose is to race on a drag strip. Usually they have 4inch rims up front and just as much as you can possibly stuff under the rear fenders. Alot of so called Pro-Street cars may be not as radical but that is the look and certainly they are not known for their handling characterisics. Most are built with corners cut like cutting springs instead of buying the right ones. They are unsually built in a short period of time and last about as long. You will not see many actually driven to an event but trailered.
Like you said that is what I think of being from the south, but we have always been behind the curve so who knows?

Going back to this thread, I feel that converting one to Pro-Touring the right way would not save you much money from starting with an original car since much is not the same.

[63SW]

Hey Frank , im sure there are a million variations and idea's of what "Pro Street" is so i thought i would throw another one at you which is from a experience i had at INDY Super Chevy a few years back.

FIRST OFF , below is a picture of my car at the time - in 1994.
its a 1979 camaro with a 70 rs front clip , cowl hood with a BBC and STUFF sticking through the hood (Like Bill said ) and out back it has 31x18.5 Mickeys ( steamrollers) has wheelie bars , full cage , fuel cell , all the "PRO STREET" stuff .

I showed up at super chevy to show but this car made a BIG STINK :fart: with other people in differnt catagories " its pro street , its not pro street " - I didnt care , i wanted to show and have fun.

Finally , after 3 hrs of SUPER CHEVY BS , and being changed to 3 different classes , Roger Guston comes over and has the 'BOOK" and shows me and a few other people why i am in the MODIFIED CLASS , not the pro street class. :look:
BY there standards , a pro street car MUST have a ACTUAL NARROWED REAR END in it.
I didnt , i had a set of rallys cut and widened to 15 in but were DEEP on the inside and i had used the FACTORY length rear ( i was being cheap at the time ) but because of the rear end , I WASNT PRO STREET . :hmm:
OH WELL , i got a 1st palce in MY CLASS , and did get a shot in the Mag from that show so i was happy . :1st:


My blue camaro does have a narrowed rear , tubs , so forth but does have the stock rear frame in it so i dont know if its pro street or not , i just know ITS FUN.


HEY BILL , you going to be around this comming week ?
I'll be down there on Monday and leaving wednesday so maybe i can swing by and check out the wheels ?
Just going down to check on the house and pick up a few things.

[Steve1968LS2]

I am curious what is considered Pro Street on this board. To me, Pro Street is Steam rollers and 55 gallon barrel halves for tubs and the motor sticking through the hood like a Rat Fink Tee Shirt. It sounds like this group places mini tub 10, 11" tire cars running skinny's up front as Pro Street? like the nice blue Camaro earlier in the post.
If this is true, and these small tired cars are considered Pro Street, I have to say Florida is way behind the times because we have plenty of these projects around. There actually has been a push in the last few years for clean, 4" Cowl hooded, all Steel, mini tub 10 to 12" tire, stock wheel opening, type cars similar to our street racer. These type of cars continue to show up, especially Fox body mustangs, later model Mustangs, and of coarse early Camaro's. The current push is even more towards running these cars on pump gas and making them truly street cars that can travel somewhere without a tanker of race fuel in tow.
What we are seeing here is hardly any Drag only race cars popping up, and more and more very fast street cars. It is not uncommon to go to the track and see street cars that are much faster then gutted race only cars.
The days of wild full tube chassis, monster tired, 14/71 blown, glass bodied Pro Streeters do seem to be mostly behind us. I do not group the for mentioned cars into that class.
With Hot Rod doing the pump gas drags, Year One is doing something similar at their show, and PHR apparently has something going according to a blurb I read in the mag, I do not see this type of vehicle as dead. I also do not see Pro Street cars being selected to participate for these events.
G machines are hot no doubt, but I will bet for every (1) G machine project going on here in Florida, there are still at least (2) Street Racers being built.
Then again, you guy's out west are always so far ahead of us, LOL!

Pro-Street like Pro-Touring has many levels.. I consider it truly Pro-Street if it has tubs, a cage and high hp motor.. oh, and skinny wheels up front. The drag car look.

For purposes of this discussion I would say any car that has a cage and some sort of tub out back.

Yep, the west coast posse is always on the leading edge.. ;)

When people say Pro-Touring is "dead" I think they are mostly refering to the cars that look like they can run 8's but run 12's instead.. and that suck to drive over any distance or that can't corner over 15mph..

I think we need a new Hybrid name for cars in between pro-street and pro-touring..

[Steve1968LS2]

Finally , after 3 hrs of SUPER CHEVY BS , and being changed to 3 different classes....

Been there done that.. I had a very small factory looking black stripe on the hood of my 2000 SS.. since it was painted on and not a sticker I was put in modified class against trailered cars with candy paint jobs..

Some SC shows I was in street.. some in modified.. with the same car..

Still fun though and the jackets were nice while they lasted..

[Bill Howell]

HEY BILL , you going to be around this comming week ?
I'll be down there on Monday and leaving wednesday so maybe i can swing by and check out the wheels ?
Just going down to check on the house and pick up a few things.

I will be here, in fact we are working on a house on Boyd's creek so just give me a shout eight 6 five eight five zero eight22eight.
Bill

[USAZR1]

Going back to this thread, I feel that converting one to Pro-Touring the right way would not save you much money from starting with an original car since much is not the same.

I kinda tend to agree with this too,Bill. The main reason I bought my El Camino was it had a nice body & decent paint job for $8K. It has a very solid engine and since I wanted to run ZR-1/Viper sized rubber under the car,the narrowed frame rails and tubs made it a bargain,,for me. For an extra $3500,the seller had a brand new BDS 6-71 set-up sitting on the workbench that was going to go on the car. I passed on the deal because I didn't have the extra funds at the time and also didn't want a Roots-type blower on my streetcar.
Some people buy a project,then decide what to do with it. My 69 El Camino had been planned in my head for over five years before I found it.

[Restomod]

My point was that a cheap Pro Streeter can be had that most if not all the chassis work has been done. Why buy a 20/30K car and change EVERYTHING?? I for one cant afford that!! If I have over 12-15K in my Mustang I will be shocked,and it will have super nice paint,sharp interior,cell,turbos(maybe),big wheels/tires and handle/stop very well. I drove that Pro Street Camaro every day for a year and it was not to bad to live with...but gas was not $2 a gal.!! and it was a small block then to.

[Paddington]

Hehe do you know what we pay for gasoline here in Norway?
and we are a leading oil nation we have to pay 1,5$ per liter!!!!
And we have insane tax on new cars one example Chevrolet Avalanche with 4 or 5 seats will set you back 150000 $ if you buy it with 2 seats its 60000$. And in US the salerys are higher then what we get here in Norway.
Well off topic here hehe just had to vent against our stupid goverment.
In Sweden our nabour i think they dont have tax on new cars at all grrr
Anyway i was looking at a Pro street the other day aswell, thinking if it was possible to "save it" i think it was priced around 9000$