A-Body rear LCA ideas

[protour_chevelle]

So I have been pondering this idea.... Making my own rear LCA. I would be using Heim joints on both ends that are welded into some grade of tubing. My one idea is quite over kill. Its essentially one tube(one size) with lets say 8 holes drilled in it(1/4 inch) in a nice pattern on the tube, with a smaller diameter tube that fits snug inside(leaving however much room on the ends for the weld in Heim bung. Now I would bond the 2 tubes with the holes I drilled with weld. Weld the bungs in, and adjust the heims accordingly.(adjustable with a nut) I'll get a pic in a sec. Now sitting here and thinking... I would have some side to side play but I could use the uca to act like a panhard bar type deal to keep the rear end centered.

Thoughts, opinions, critisism, etc welcome :)

-Matt

[Zefhix]

Why don't you use the LCAs to keep the rear centered and then use the UCAs that are adjustable? Am I missing something or is that essentially what you're doing just reversed? What do you gain from an adjustable lower? I've never seen it before so I'm just curious. :)

[protour_chevelle]

From what I have gathered from reading a few posts, its correct the upper or lower control arms?

My thinking...The UCA would keep the rear centered nicer then the LCA,..am I wrong in my thinking? I could run solid bushings in the lowers with heimed in the uppers I guess. Other reasons for my thinking. Theres a few Chevelles on here that are running a tubular lower control arm with a factory(or like, but not adjustable UCA)

Sorry for such a large pic.

-Matt

[dennis68]

Matt, how about just buying already built lower links for 65/ea with rods on either end and using stock uppers with rubber on the frame side and bearings at the axle (the UCA needs to "grow", can't do that with all solid links and solid bushings).

The LCA's in OE configuration cannot control lateral movement of the axle. That is why the upper converge, for lateral stability. BTW, it doesn't work very well.

[protour_chevelle]

Matt, how about just buying already built lower links for 65/ea with rods on either end and using stock uppers with rubber on the frame side and bearings at the axle (the UCA needs to "grow", can't do that with all solid links and solid bushings).

The LCA's in OE configuration cannot control lateral movement of the axle. That is why the upper converge, for lateral stability. BTW, it doesn't work very well.

Like I said it was just some pondering going on. By rods on either end, whatcha mean ??? Would you happen to have a link or part number for the bearings your talking about for the upper axle side control arms?

I'm not going to get too hardcore into my rear suspension yet. I have more stuff to worry about, like getting the darn thing on the road so I have wheels!

-Matt

[dennis68]

Like these (http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=49_658&products_id=7337)

As far as the bearings for the upper axle mount....Hey Vince, I think I found another taker for those bearings, better order a few more sets.

[protour_chevelle]

Dennis,

So your saying to run panard bars for my lower links? Maybe my measureing was off but I got in the ball park of 21 7/8" from center bolt to center bolt on my LCA. Mind you, it was a quick measurement. Solid bushings in the LCA?

How much for the bearings?

Please hang in here, my fingers are a little dirty but not caked in grease....yet atleast :)

Edit: Always thought it was panhard not panard. Word!

-Matt

[dennis68]

Sure, why not. The lateral forces tuning are way more severe then the torque the axle places on the links during acceleration. They are adjustable, the range should be in the 21-22" arena.

I think the bearings are going to run about 150/set (enough to do R&L upper mounts).

Yeah, it is panhard. Coleman builds awesome products, but they are rednecks ya know.

[protour_chevelle]

Thanks Dennis :) I'll have to dig up some cashola and get those bearings. Wont be any time soon though. I still have another 2 grand just to get this engine running. I'm running out of things to sell!!! LOL.

Rednecks,...I live in Redneck county:) You should hear and see some of the gross abortions we have driving around!

-Matt

[TUBED]

Matt check out wolferacecraft.com they along with others already have what your looking to do they have 4130 chrome moly LCA's and UCA's. I've got a complete rear kit for an A-body that I purchased at the end of this past year that I received 20% off on a Holiday special or end of the year sale. The quality of fabrication ie... welds and fitment show the nice work they crank out just ask for Linden I beleive there's only 3 or 4 guys running their business. Thanks, Gerald

[protour_chevelle]

Thanks for the link! Lots of help.

I can get adjustable uppers for 250(can run my stockers for now)
1 end adjustable LCA for 210(their pretty clean)
Spherical Billet Upper Control Arm Bushing for GM A-Body for 120. Now this is the iffy part. The claim it as a bushing AND a bearing....http://www.wolferacecraft.com/detail.aspx?ID=187 A spherical bearing is mounted inside to provide a smooth pivoting point to elminate bind.

Now off course 120 is nicer then 150, but whats the difference? I'd rather support a member on here but if its the same deal....You know.

-Matt

[MrQuick]

Hey Matt, yeah if your gonna build your own trailing arms i'd leave the holes out and make em out of 2 sizes of tubing. But for the price you can get them from Coleman its alot easier too. I've been dealing with Wolf race craft great guys but pricey.

[dennis68]

2 problems with Wolfcraft;
1) OMFG, can you say WAY overpriced for very basic stuff. I have the same quality lower arms and they were 120/pair.
2)If you run all solid bushings and tube links you have added a problem the OE setup did not have.....the lack of ability for the upper link to "grow" which essential for that system in the serach for a bind free suspension.

[MrQuick]

yeah they are, I can build most of that stuff for at least half price...don't worry guys i'll put a kit together in a couple weeks. Trying to get the bushings cheaper...the fox body guys get theres for $90 pair

[protour_chevelle]

Ok, since you guys know more about prices and stuff like that....I'm pretty new to this like mentioned.

Mrquick. Are you going to have a kit out for the A-body cars? Namely 70-72? What will it consist of?

A high end heim joint is freakin pricey. I was looking at the Heims the desert crowd uses and for a 1 1/4 heim with tapered bung your looking at 100 bucks a pop!

Thanks,

-Matt

[MrQuick]

Im trying to make them for 68-72. Right now it looks like Upper & lower trailing arms w/ spericals and an adjustable panhard bar. Still working on parts pricing. Look for a total cost around $500-$650. I will let you guys know what will be in the kit exactly.

[protour_chevelle]

I wanna be the guinea pig!!!!!! I'm down for a discount too hehehe.

-Matt

[MrQuick]

Sorry Den beat you to it. ha ha j/k

[protour_chevelle]

OH SNAP! :)

-Matt

[Norm Peterson]

Thoughts, opinions, critisism, etc welcome :)The very first question that I have is whether or not you'll be having a rear sta-bar attached to those LCA's in the manner of OE GM A/G body. If so, you'll need beefier LCA's to cope with the combination of bending plus axial compression, and some investigation into how much bending load you can safely apply to the threaded portion of the rod end is in order. If not, and I think that not attaching the sta-bar to the LCA's is clearly the preferable solution, circle track pieces or similar will work.

A guy I know from other boards made up his own set of LCA's and a PHB for his daily-driven and open-track'ed 4th gen F-body using aluminum (http://www.jonaadland.com/Z28/Mods/LCA/AluminumLCAs.html) for the arms. He's provided some technical/engineering information in the link (though his compressive strength information is a little higher for his slightly shorter arms than it would be for yours). Some of you guys already know of Jon, but for those who don't, he's an engineer at Boeing who's getting progressively deeper into fabbing his own stuff.

Norm

[pav8427]

hey matt,

here some pics of a frame i'm thinking of building.
i built the lower arms with stainless,teflon lined spherical rod ends.

if you know how long and how wide the mounts are they would be simple to build, in fact i believe that i designed them off original
mount width for a 65 chevelle ss. that i am putting on this chassis.

as far as having them adjustable for length, i would be concerned with the side load or bending(launching) of anything less than something stout.

even a healthy small block in a 3200-3600 lb. car could have torque
to do some serious twisting.

are ya catchin' what i'm pitchin'?

thanks doug