What are my choices for upper control arms for my 2 gen Camaro

[maldo]

What are my choices for upper control arms for my 80 Camaro Z/28.

Ok here is my story a while ago I posted about getting more info about a suspension system my dad bought for this car about 12 years ago (VBP ) strange enough we never got around to installing it. Well even though it’s a good all out race set up many that had the system said that there are better solutions with out the harsh ride. So I have deicide not to use the system and go anther route.


From my understanding (and I may be wrong) is that most of the suspension gain is from the upper control arms (positive caster etc).

For the lower control arms I will just will upgrade with del-a-lum bushings (I do not see any sense in changing the lower controls if most tubular aftermarkets are just stock dimensions)


1) What are the pros and cons of the different control arms out there?
2) Price range I see some that range from 325 to 750 ?? what’s good and bad and the ugly out there?

I am looking for good stuff but, Like most I am on a budget and have to pace myself so I can get the car done (I can always upgrade later but want to get the best bang for the buck possible.

So what you Opinion? Thx

[Lowend]

You have come at the right time as there are finally some choices out there for 2nd gen a-arms
As with most things there are different p絸arts designed around different goals.

I'll go though some basic choices and my thoughts

1) Global West: (http://www.globalwest.net/)
The first "good" upper a-arm for the 2nd gen. These are well made, solid and have a good castor angle. The bushings are Del-a-lum which is the best on the market
The downsides: They are kind of expensive
Overall I would consider these the best arms for a street car

2) Detroit Speed (DSE) (http://www.detroitspeed.com/productpages/indproduct/frontsuspensionprod/2nd_upper_control_arms_prod.htm)
These are beautiful and well built... functionally pretty much the same as Global West.
Downside: They are much more expensive than anything else.
Overall these would be more show-car that anything

3) SC&C (http://www.scandc.com/index.htm) These are the most "racey" of the control arms. Not very pretty but very functional. These are fully adjustable, and can accomidate the Howe super HD tall ball joint. If you want to fine tune the cars alignment and front suspension behavior, these are your pieces.
Downsides: On a street car you don't really need the adjustability. These don't have the greatest fitment, you may need to trim the mount towers to make them fit.
Overall - these are for the racers and come with the associated headache/benefits. These are the arms I use on my auto-x car.

4) Pro-Touring F-body (http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/)
These are the budget models of the group. Non-adjustable, but similar in geometry to the DSE and Global West units. Nothing wrong with them, but not as pretty as the DSE or GW units either.
On the plus side if you order these as a package with the firewall braces (maybe the best mod you can do to the car) you do save a little $$
Downside: The solid bushings are somewhat unproven with a lack of sleeve; but I have yet to hear a complaint/failure.

You are bound to find Speedtech and BMR out there... they are basically lower quality copies of the Global West units. I don't like to support companies who rip-off the R&D depts of others so I can't recommend them

[ProdigyCustoms]

Don't forget Speedtech. My favorite quality arm for a great price.

[79T/Aman]

The solid bushings are somewhat unproven with a lack of sleeve; but I have yet to hear a complaint/failure.

in fact we have the best sleeve of ANY on the market and in 3 years of production there are over 400 sets out there.
Thanks for the good words

[maldo]

The solid bushings are somewhat unproven with a lack of sleeve; but I have yet to hear a complaint/failure.

in fact we have the best sleeve of ANY on the market and in 3 years of production there are over 400 sets out there.
Thanks for the good words


"lack of a sleeve" please expand on that does this mean metal on metal ? how does this effect the ride quailty and road feed back to the steering wheel etc? thx

[CRead01]

You are bound to find Speedtech and BMR out there... they are basically lower quality copies of the Global West units. I don't like to support companies who rip-off the R&D depts of others so I can't recommend them

just out of curiosity what is wrong with these brands? I havn't looked into BMR but the speedtech ones look like good quality parts.

[79T/Aman]

well our do have a steel locating sleeve instead of an aluminum lip on all others, as far as ride quality and solid body bushings go this is a perpetuated fallacy from unexperienced bench racers, the fact is that solidly bolting the two car halfs together surely should sound like the correct thing to do to anyone and it is, anothe fact is that modern unibody cars have the front frame welded to the body.
As for feed back, the more solid the chassis is the more feed back the driver gets but this is a good thing especialy in performance application.
One thing that still needs to be stressed is the need for a rigid chassis in order for the suspension to do it's job.

[maldo]

well our do have a steel locating sleeve instead of an aluminum lip on all others, as far as ride quality and solid body bushings go this is a perpetuated fallacy from unexperienced bench racers, the fact is that solidly bolting the two car halfs together surely should sound like the correct thing to do to anyone and it is, anothe fact is that modern unibody cars have the front frame welded to the body.
As for feed back, the more solid the chassis is the more feed back the driver gets but this is a good thing especialy in performance application.
One thing that still needs to be stressed is the need for a rigid chassis in order for the suspension to do it's job.


Are you referring to the control arms?

By far you have the best prices for control arms.

I am no stranger to the hi performance aspect have owned 2-4 th gen f-bodies.
Over the years my experience with solid or poly control bushing have been good and bad… I mean I go way back to the first gen of poly bushing (before they improved them) which would be great for a short period but would bind, squeak and wear out very fast.
even with the newer poly bushings on the control arms I would always run into allot of road noise and unwanted feed back which did not make the car a good street car great on the track but not so good on the street. (I also live in NYC area where the roads around here are terrible)

How are your control arms for everyday use? With the solid bushings set up.
Again I am looking for a modern car ride like my newer camaro and vette
I am not looking for an all out race car ride but want a well balanced car with a modern ride and handling.

[Marcus SC&C]

I can`t speak for other vendors but the greasable steel bushings in our SPC adj. arms are very nice on the street. I`ve been running them on my own cars for years, some of them 12,000-15,000 miles a year rain or shine. Here in the pothole state (PA) where the roads are like paved wagon ruts that`s saying something. A good solid UCA bushings will allow the arms to pivot very freely letting the springs and shocks soak up the bumps. Rubber bushings deflect and then bottom out with a thud when they get a sudden jolt. No deflection, no thud. Solid LCA bushings will transmit more med and high frequency NVH because they`re weight bearing but the difference in NVH is much smaller than most would imagine. They`ll soak up big bumps better (see above) they`ll just let you feel more of the texture of the road surface. The solid bushing UCAs don`t really even change that feel. Remember cars like the big old luxurious Cadillacs and Chryslers of the 50s had greasable steel front suspension bushings (upper and lower) and they set the standards for a smooth ride for many years. Mark SC&C

[CRead01]

I can`t speak for other vendors but the greasable steel bushings in our SPC adj. arms are very nice on the street. I`ve been running them on my own cars for years, some of them 12,000-15,000 miles a year rain or shine. Here in the pothole state (PA) where the roads are like paved wagon ruts that`s saying something. A good solid UCA bushings will allow the arms to pivot very freely letting the springs and shocks soak up the bumps. Rubber bushings deflect and then bottom out with a thud when they get a sudden jolt. No deflection, no thud. Solid LCA bushings will transmit more med and high frequency NVH because they`re weight bearing but the difference in NVH is much smaller than most would imagine. They`ll soak up big bumps better (see above) they`ll just let you feel more of the texture of the road surface. The solid bushing UCAs don`t really even change that feel. Remember cars like the big old luxurious Cadillacs and Chryslers of the 50s had greasable steel front suspension bushings (upper and lower) and they set the standards for a smooth ride for many years. Mark SC&C


Great explanation. I have always wondered

[79T/Aman]

OK, well I feel like a big dumb A** right now, I completly miss read what lowend was saying about the solid bushing part, I thought he was talking about our body bushings, well Mark said it best, no problem with the solid pivots I've run them for over 70,000 miles on one car and the prototypes of our Comp arms have been on my car for 5 years

[killer69]

here is our offering
549.00
stainless off set cross shafts
moog problem solver ball joints
gloss black powder coated.

[maldo]

here is our offering
549.00
stainless off set cross shafts
moog problem solver ball joints
gloss black powder coated.


Not to sound cheap but how come you guys are so much more?
http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/chassis_components.html
For example the link above has a Similar product and these guys are selling for much less and offer much more for the money I mean for $669.00 I can get the upper control arms plus all the stuff I need to rebuild the front end.

I am not trying to say one product is better then the other but, what’s the difference with your product to justify the cost ( I mean does it offer better handling ride etc? ) I am not trying to start a war but I am trying to understand between all the products out there....
thx Jim

[killer69]

You are bound to find Speedtech and BMR out there... they are basically lower quality copies of the Global West units. I don't like to support companies who rip-off the R&D depts of others so I can't recommend them

What is that supposed to mean???

How do you know they are lower quality?
i dont see stainless steel cross shafts on GW arms!
i don't see moog Problem solver ball joints!
have you seen the quality of our powder coating?
have you seen the quality of our welding
do you know the quality of out raw materials?

And please TELL ME who did GW copy????? (hint flip the W upside down)
And why is DSE not a copy if ours are????

Pretty strong statement about ripping off R&D

maybe GM should sue every company that makes parts for their cars! cuz they originally came up the the idea !!!!

NO??

[killer69]

[quote=maldo]Not to sound cheap but how come you guys are so much more?



How much more?
DSE 650.00
GW 673.76


when comparing apples

looks like we should raise our price.

[79T/Aman]

can't believe this has turned into a sales pitch from a none forum advertiser!!!!

[killer69]

Guy asks what his options are.
next guy list "some" of the options

i chime in with another option.

then someone bashes our product!!

what else would you expect me to do.

honestly

it's not a sales pitch.
and i guess if i need to pay the 1200.. ??? just to add to a thread when some one has already mentioned the product then what ever

[79T/Aman]

you are not Speedtech, and even though My company IS an advertiser on this board I did not make a sales pitch out of this, sorry to inform you but "here is our offering" along with a price and a pic does not count as an "option", that was handled by Lowend

[WS6]

Actually he is. Killer bought Speed Tech a year ago now?.

Regardless, do not turn this thread into a pi$$ing match or else I'm gonna get pi$$ed. There is very good info here. Agree to disagree. State the facts about your product, if you have one. If you are not a vendor and have no affiliation with a product you are free to state whatever opinion your have, preferably one that can be backed up. Besides, companies bashing other companies openly make yourself look bad and destroys a thread. Keep it on tech, facts, and very informed opinions.

Thanks

[79T/Aman]

WS6, are you saying that I bashed another product ? if so, how and where? and I'm not turning it into a pi$$ing match, in fact killer69 is the one that did not keep it on tech, I'll stand corrected on who ownes Speedtech

[WS6]

no, I was speaking in general terms, no finger pointing. There is good tech here even if it is beginner tech. I don't want that ruined by any finger pointing or bashing, especially by companies with competing products. This goes for all threads at all times. So again, my terms where in general. Keep it on tech, everyone, please.

Personally, I love it when you can walk into a forum or thread and find two companies talking about their product. It allows everyone to see what makes a particular product worth more, "better", or why it's necessary at all. Making an educated and detailed (without giving away proprietary info of course)post about your product will do amazing things. Which, if I am not mistaken, is pretty much why anyone chooses to become a sponsor of a board. It's why I chose to sponsor a board. It's not this one since this isn't my target audience but the justification for the expense is the same. People have differing views and opinions which is why I say agree to disagree and not get into a finger pointing pi$$ing match. I've seen too many boards ruined by bad tech or popular opinions versus educated and well informed opinions. I didn't want to see this thread ruined so I said something right at the beginning before it potentially got out of control.

[killer69]

i'm with you WS6, we have to be selective as to where and how one spends their advertising budget, we have ads on other boards and used to have one on here as well.
i have a pretty good record of not bashing anything, i just wanted to add a bit more info to what Frank had piped up with, but i have to also defend my product when some one calls it a " Lower quality copy of the GW product.

i did not say who bashed the product!!

we have worked VERY hard to redesign the product from its original offering, we have spent alot of time and money to offer a product that is of the highest quality. Period.

[WS6]

we have worked VERY hard to redesign the product from its original offering, we have spent alot of time and money to offer a product that is of the highest quality. Period.

Can you expand on this Blake? I know maldo would like to know and I would too. What specifically makes your product different than others or better than stock? What materials do you use that may be different or can justify the cost? I see you use an SS cross shaft and moog joints, anything else that you coudl tell us without giving away proprietary info? I believe these are the type answers maldo was looking for.

Thanks,

[killer69]

The Tubular Upper Control Arms are CAD designed Mandrel bent and all components are either laser cut or CNC machined for exact tolerances. The uppers are made from 1.25" seamless DOM tubing with a wall thickness of .125. Lowers are 1.5" seamless DOM tubing with a awall thickness of .155" The control arms come complete powder coated black and include offset stainless steel cross shafts, Acetron GP® type bushings, Moog™ Problem solver ball Joints and Urethane Bump Stops, 4 deg of built in caster on the upper arms.
soon we will also be including the billet ball joint cap as well.

we have redesigned the bushings and tightened the tolerances on all the machining opps. the welding process has been improved so there is virtually no warpage or movement from the desired dimentions.

the powder coating is as good as it gets, we have actually sent back 2 full production runs for more powder so they are as close to perfect as they can be.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Wow!

[79T/Aman]

Well I'll give some tech regarding our upper arms, my back ground is in stock cars (nascar, arca, asa, supper trucks, LLMs ) we used a proven design and adapted it to work on the second Gen chassis it was required to start with a clean sheet as no one made a direct bolt on and the ones that are available do not fit without mods to the frame, and the racing pieces that are available are light "sacrificial" parts with no built in geometry improvements.
We use a seamless DOM .125 wall tubing, our own CNC manufactured offset cross shafts, water jet cut ball joint plates we used to laser cut the ball joint plate but it leaves very sharp edges and cost time and money in deburing these, I say this to answer Maldo's question as to why there is such a price difference, we work VERY HARD at keeping cost down the other thing we did from our original arms was to make our own cross shafts to control quality and cost, our previous supplier could not guaranty these critical steps, the other cost cutting measure has two folds to it, instead of designing and manufacturing pivot bushings that wear and need replacement we chose to use a proven solid pivot that is virtualy wear proof, provide bind free movement and no defflection with NO added cost to the manufacturing, our arms also have a revised ball joint plate to place the ball joint in correct alignment on lowered cars as well as greater than stock caster settings.
I hope I've answered the original questions.
Dave

[cdoggy81]

Dave,
What is the difference between your 2 different upper arms; pro-street upper control arms & competition control arms? For the guy building a lowered, pro-touring, corner carver type car on a budget, which should he get & why?

[79T/Aman]

The Comps are the way to go because of the geometry changes that are built in them and the solid bushings can handle the high load forces, the Pro-street arms were designed for Alston Race Cars and they wanted a stock geometry replacement arm for the drag race cars that they build they are perfect for a street rod type car, although they do have the same offset shaft to increase the adjustment window.
Dave

[Lowend]

we have worked VERY hard to redesign the product from its original offering, we have spent alot of time and money to offer a product that is of the highest quality. Period.

I may very well owe you an apology... I was unaware that Speedtech had changed hands and of the redesign.

When Speedtech's stuff first appeared it was the exact same geometry or Global West, with the exact same look down to the x-shafts. They came out a couple of years after the GW's.
Lets say I have a source (no names here) who confirmed by suspicions that the GW design was copied.

[Skip Fix]

So how about using the low friction Howe ball joints with them?

[79T/Aman]

the tall Howe ball joint along with the added built in caster from the A-arms solves most of the 2nd gen's geometry short commings, caster, roll center location and migration, and some neg. camber gains without screwing up bumpsteer or adding scrub radius.

[critter]

Is that with the stock second generation spindles? What about those of us who went to the B-body spindle and the 12 inch, 1LE brakes?

[TLWiltman]

In keeping with the theme of the last reply, I have a mildly weird application as well. Still a 2nd gen camaro subframe... But the Stock Car Products spindles I have use a K727 Ball joint for the lowers and a K772 BJ for the uppers. Options?

[cdoggy81]

The Comp. uppers with the tall Howe ball joint & the pro-street lowers control arms w/ solid bushings would make a rice riding setup for a very affordable price it seems.

[79T/Aman]

Critter,the B-body spindle is nearly identical to the F-body spindle the main differences are in the caliper and steering arm location.
TLwiltman, I forget the dimentions of the SCP spindels but if I remember they have the oin raised 1" as compared to the stock For B-body spindle they also have a bolt on steering arm, those are the ones that Herb Adams used for his stage 3 kit, I have a set at home I should check all the dimentions on them. if a serious race car is being built, Howe makes a spindle that is forged.
Cdoggy81, within the next couple weeks we will have a re-enforced stamped lower arm all set up with spherical bearings and Moog ball joints or tall Howe lower ball joints, but more on that in a couple weeks.

[WS6]

Thanks guys.

[dropit69]

79T/Aman here are you located at in Illinois?..do you sell lower control arms for a second gen also?

[cdoggy81]

Nice! If the $$$ is right I may get a set & sell my GW L.C.A. bushings :)

[79T/Aman]

we are in Grayslake IL, we'll have coil spring lower arms next week we have the Alston QA1 lower arms already

[maldo]

Wow guys loved the response I got on this thread which leaves me allot to think about....

[Skip Fix]

Not sure if my low friction Howe's are "tall" or stock.

[Procharmo]

Maldo,
please consider a beginners input. I did a little research. Purchased SSCA upper, Global West (Delaum) Lower, Hotchkis tie rods and Baer spindles. So far the car rides like a new car up front, just a little firmer. I also have cut down Hotchkis lowering springs. I took this route because the front end came up 2 1/2 inches after replacing the water pump, power steering pump, alternator, heads, radiator and intercooler piping with aluminium items.
I'm still running stock front sway bar and none in the rear. Not sure if I'll end up changing the car from under to oversteer if I install sway bars?

[maldo]

Maldo,
please consider a beginners input. I did a little research. Purchased SSCA upper, Global West (Delaum) Lower, Hotchkis tie rods and Baer spindles. So far the car rides like a new car up front, just a little firmer. I also have cut down Hotchkis lowering springs. I took this route because the front end came up 2 1/2 inches after replacing the water pump, power steering pump, alternator, heads, radiator and intercooler piping with aluminium items.
I'm still running stock front sway bar and none in the rear. Not sure if I'll end up changing the car from under to oversteer if I install sway bars?


Thank you for your input.. (btw do you have pictures of your set up) I was worried about the same thing (front end coming up when changing over to aluminium items)
Do they make springs out there with this in mind (from my experience with cutting springs is that it changes the rate of the coil)

[skatinjay27]

Thank you for your input.. (btw do you have pictures of your set up) I was worried about the same thing (front end coming up when changing over to aluminium items)
Do they make springs out there with this in mind (from my experience with cutting springs is that it changes the rate of the coil)yes makes them a stiffer rate but not drastically...

[TLWiltman]

Critter,the B-body spindle is nearly identical to the F-body spindle the main differences are in the caliper and steering arm location.
TLwiltman, I forget the dimentions of the SCP spindels but if I remember they have the oin raised 1" as compared to the stock For B-body spindle they also have a bolt on steering arm, those are the ones that Herb Adams used for his stage 3 kit, I have a set at home I should check all the dimentions on them. if a serious race car is being built, Howe makes a spindle that is forged.
Cdoggy81, within the next couple weeks we will have a re-enforced stamped lower arm all set up with spherical bearings and Moog ball joints or tall Howe lower ball joints, but more on that in a couple weeks.

The ones I have were custom done for me (the forged "sprint cup" units, not the fabbed ones)... They are some very heavy duty and serious hardware. Dimensions are pretty close to the stock 2nd gen (pin ends up 3/4" higher... spindle 3/4" taller from pivot to pivot. .5" comes from the K727 being taller, .25" is from the actual pin location). The main thing I need help with is finding tubular LCAs with the screw-in BJ sleeve. Sounds like another custom job.:seizure:

[maldo]

The ones I have were custom done for me (the forged "sprint cup" units, not the fabbed ones)... They are some very heavy duty and serious hardware. Dimensions are pretty close to the stock 2nd gen (pin ends up 3/4" higher... spindle 3/4" taller from pivot to pivot. .5" comes from the K727 being taller, .25" is from the actual pin location). The main thing I need help with is finding tubular LCAs with the screw-in BJ sleeve. Sounds like another custom job.:seizure:


do you have pictures of your set-up?

[Lemons]

I gotta say this is a great post. I am looking to do the same upgrade to my 73, but I haven’t yet decided which arms to go with. Being able to hear from the manufacturers of the arms really helps.

That said, I did have a question. Has any one done any load analysis, FEA, deflection analysis, or destructive testing on their parts? I assume that some sort of testing has been done to verify the design, but most of what I have heard involves CAD design and suspension geometry. I know that when CAD design is used, it may also refer to the use of FEA programs.

I know that all the arms mentioned have a lot of use and real world testing done on them, so I guess this question was really to satisfy my own curiosity.

Thanks

Chris

[Marcus SC&C]

Tad, we can whip up hybrid Howe ball joints to fit your oddball application if you want. We can do them for almost any wierd application from parts in stock. Have you moved your frame mounting pickup points? Your description sounds as if you may have the UBJ pickup point too high for best geometry on a 2nd Gen subframe.
The 2nd Gen doesn`t need near as much help as the 1st Gens do. We based the application of the Howe tall ball joints on race data from 1970-73 TranAm teams as well as our own computer and real life R&D. I see Dave`s using them now too. They`re a great product. There`s no need to use a tall lower. The 2nd gen has a suprisingly good bumpsteer curve and a taller lower messes it up. Been there,tried that. It also doesn`t need any more - camber gain in bump, a tall upper easily handles that. The only thing you`d gain from a tall lower is less lateral RC migration and that`s not bad on the 2nd Gen either. We`ve uses an aluminum AFX tall spindle on them to good effect,that reduces the RC migration without hurting the bumpsteer and we also increase the ackerman for better turn in.
Somebody mentioned the SPC uppers not fitting too great for some reason. I`ve probably installed more of them than anyone outside of racing and I`ve only run into minor clearance issues a couple times on the sides of the perch. Even then it was only on one side of the car. WHen measured one perch was slightly wider than the other. No suprise with GM`s super tight chassis tolerances in the 70s. Ha ha! I just bent the side of the perch in a little to match the other mounts and they fit great. IMO it`s worth taking a couple minutes for the adjustability they offer and the extra header clearance you get by not needing any shims at all.
FWIW the new SPC tubular lower arms we co designed are done and the first shippment is inbound! :woot: Like the rest of the SPC series they have modular lower seats that will accept regular coil springs or coil overs. With coil springs they have adj. height spring seats that let you drop the car up to 1" or raise it 1/2" higher than stock (if you`ve got drop spring,drop spindles etc. and it`s too low). Even the coil overs can use laser cut shims to adj. ride height and shock piston height within the shock body. They have clean sheet geometry designed to work with performance alignment specs and have maximum tire clearance. Two mounting holes for the swaybar end links to adj. the bars effective rate,greasable delrin bushings, optional late model style progressive rate jounce bumpers etc. 2lbs. ea. lighter than stock but much stronger and more fatigue resistant. Many aftermarket LCAs are 20-30% heavier than stock, if you actually weigh them.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Lemons, I can`t speak for all manufacturers but the better ones do. The SPC LCAs for example went through a full battery of computer testing as well as a full spectrum of fatigue and destructive testing. SPC`s Light Racing division builds high end Baja racing trucks and components so they have extensive equipment for testing tubular structures. Not that you`ll ever take your Camaro to Baja and run 100mph over ruts and rock and jump it 20ft. in the air but it`s nice to know you could if you wanted to. :twothumbs :rotfl: Mark SC&C

[David Pozzi]

I may very well owe you an apology... I was unaware that Speedtech had changed hands and of the redesign.

When Speedtech's stuff first appeared it was the exact same geometry or Global West, with the exact same look down to the x-shafts. They came out a couple of years after the GW's.
Lets say I have a source (no names here) who confirmed by suspicions that the GW design was copied.

I have a pair of the early Speed Tech uppers, they are not exact copies of the GW arms. They also don't add quite as much positive caster as the GW arms do, I think you would have to add a couple of extra shims to get as much caster as the GW arms. GW never used a stainless shaft but Detroit Speed does. The Speed Tech arms I have don't have the DSE type slots for added caster adjustment.

I have used Speed Tech, Global West, DSE, SC&C, and 79T/Aman parts of various kinds, with good results.
As far as arm strength goes, I had a 91 full sized Blazer, it had tubular upper A arms stock, they were almost half the tube diameter of the aftermarket tubular arms, so I think they are way overkill as far as strength goes.
David

[maldo]

yes this has turned out to be a great post and a weath of info...

can some of you go into the tall and short ball joints i here everyone refering to why would i need one or the otherwith some of these control arms ? or should i start anther post about this?

[WS6]

Start another post please maldo. It'll allow searching to be easier. I'm interested in this info as well.

[gt1guy]

The main thing I need help with is finding tubular LCAs with the screw-in BJ sleeve. Sounds like another custom job.:seizure:

If you want to run coilovers and monoballs with the screw in BJ's, here ya go: http://www.howeracing.com/Suspension/Index-Lower-AStyle.htm

Circle track stuff is second gen Camaro, for the most part. Someone mentioned that "the racing pieces that are available are light "sacrificial" parts". I'd rather bend a control arm if I screw up and tag a curb, than destroy a $800.00 rim, bend the control arm mounts, or bend the subframe itself. One more data point is that these parts are made to run on 30*banking at 180+mph. I think they'll work ok on the street.

Kevin

[79T/Aman]

I've been around circle track racing and I would caution against believeing that all racing parts are better than stock parts, on the street there are consequences if a part fails, race cars are checked after every race, but many parts that derive from racing can be made to be stronger to endure the beating from rough roads, the other thing to keep in mind is that mono balls have about 30% less movement than a ball joint this means that suspension travel must be limited to avoid breakage.
Now don't get me wrong here I'm not saying that racing parts are no good, I'm saying that in choosing to use racing parts it needs to be checked as to the part that would be safe for street use.

[gt1guy]

I'm saying that in choosing to use racing parts it needs to be checked as to the part that would be safe for street use.

Well put. Words of wisdom right there. I did not mean to imply that all racing parts are better than stock parts. And even stock parts should be checked often if the vehicle is driven hard or tracked.

The mono-balls I was referring to were not mono-ball joints. They were for the LCA to chassis pickup point.

Here's what I was talking about:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This is the Howe second gen tubular control arm, set up for mono-balls, coilovers, and screw in ball joints.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Kevin

[maldo]

Well put. Words of wisdom right there. I did not mean to imply that all racing parts are better than stock parts. And even stock parts should be checked often if the vehicle is driven hard or tracked.

The mono-balls I was referring to were not mono-ball joints. They were for the LCA to chassis pickup point.

Here's what I was talking about:

Kevin

:wrc: I like those trick joints. How does it ride with a set up like that? What I mean do you get allot of feed back vibes back through the suspention.. (Is it streetable for everyday use?)
What is the life span for joints like that (can you get 100k out of them or do they have to be replced every so often)

[79T/Aman]

the spherical pivots are very free moving this can in fact make the ride smoother because the shock energy comming from the road is transfered to motion energy and absorbed by the spring and shock.

[maldo]

the spherical pivots are very free moving this can in fact make the ride smoother because the shock energy comming from the road is transfered to motion energy and absorbed by the spring and shock.


Yes, one of the other vendors on this post also stated that.. I find that very intresting that a bearing set up like this (Metal on Metal) would not transmitt any un-wanted noise or vibes. I wonder why we do see through other manufactures (maybe cost is the factor)

[gt1guy]

Never ended up using those arms. Changed direction and are building a full tube spaceframe for the 72. I would think the mono-ball would ride much like a solid bushing. A bit more NVH but a better feel. When they wear out, you pop off the C clip, push out the bearing, and stick a new one in. It's just a big ass spherical bearing.


Is it streetable for everyday use?

That my friend, is the million dollar question. And there is no correct answer. What is streetable to one person, is totally unacceptable to another. It all depends on what you want to get out of your car, and what your willing to give up to do it. A new C6 Vette handles good and has a good ride. A C6R Vette that runs in the ALMS, handles better, with not so good of a ride.

Kevin

[maldo]

Never ended up using those arms. Changed direction and are building a full tube spaceframe for the 72. I would think the mono-ball would ride much like a solid bushing. A bit more NVH but a better feel. When they wear out, you pop off the C clip, push out the bearing, and stick a new one in. It's just a big ass spherical bearing.



That my friend, is the million dollar question. And there is no correct answer. What is streetable to one person, is totally unacceptable to another. It all depends on what you want to get out of your car, and what your willing to give up to do it. A new C6 Vette handles good and has a good ride. A C6R Vette that runs in the ALMS, handles better, with not so good of a ride.

Kevin


Hi, well like most I want to build dependable car that give me the power, handling I would expect from a modern car and that I can get in a drive everyday (If I want to) .
I am a type of person who builds it and uses it and I see most think the same way I do
About their cars here. (That’s he thing I like most about this site)

My biggest problem is I live in the NYC area so I have to contend with different seasons pot holes ruts etc (around the city and the metropolitan area can be murder). When I lived in south FL it was no problem to go with a killer low ride type of set up.

Yes I understand with any kind of performance car there are some give and takes one would have to consider … but my main concerns would be to have a set up that will tolerate different weather/road conditions and some what long service life for the suspension and tires (in anther words I don’t want to have to be replacing ball joints bearings every 15-20k) so at this point I am weighing my options.. And seeing what the best bang for the buck (I just want a well rounded car).

[79T/Aman]

if a you want a car that you can drive any day I would just use new rubber in the lower control arms then it's the ONLY bushing that is impervious to road grime and water and years of service life, the uppers are much less exposed to that, I ran solid steel bushings for over 70,000 miles in ALL weather in Chicago

[Zee]

Sorry to resurect this thread but I was doing a search as I am contemplating tubular uppers. I have looked at all of the manufactures sites and info and I am leaning toward DSE at this point. I like the caster bushings in the cross shaft. My problem is that there would seem to be a fair amount of lateral load on the cross shaft. All of the machine work to put the bushing in would seem to considerably weaken the shaft itself. I am just being paranoid? I mean DSE stuff if pretty well proven and all of the shafts have machine work done to decrease the size of the shaft to fit the bushing. Here is a link to what I am talking about: http://www.detroitspeed.com/productpages/indproduct/frontsuspensionprod/popups/tuca_3_2pic.htm

[Procharmo]

I can't answer your question, but can only add that the SC&C adjustable uppers are the best option out there. The car now handles great.

Back in 2008 when I originally commented on this post I had SC&C uppers, Global west lowers, Cut front coils, stock front anti roll bar, no rear anti roll and stock leafs.

I changed from a P600B Procharger (700hp) to a Procharger F1C (1000hp) and what seemed like previously good handling went out the window. After adding Strange adjustable shocks and Hotchkis front and rear anti roll bars the car is great again..

I' currently adding another Procharger (Twins) for even more power and may swap to aftermarket leaf springs but feel all the other components will remain. Including the SC&C uppers......