PHR "Talladega" project?!?!???

[DarkBuddha]

Is it just me? Don't get me wrong because I'm glad that PHR is gonna do an '70s A body project, and that they chose the very cool S3 Laguna. But why, oh why, the hell are they calling it "Project Talladega"? I mean I understand the NASCAR reference, but I can't help but think Ford when I hear the term "Talladega" applied to a car (Torino Talladega). And what the hell is wrong with using "Project Laguna"? While Laguna Seca isn't a NASCAR track, it is a track steeped in vintage road racing history and surely enthusiasts can appreciate the crossover connection to NASCAR road racing.

This also reminds me of some other magazine project some years ago about building a Chevy Monte Carlo which they nicknamed "Monte-Go", which is way too easily confused with Mercury's Montego.:pat: Just a bad idea IMHO... but we know what opinions are worth.

Whatever...

[Steve1968LS2]

Because "Project Big Ass Bumpers" was already taken.. lol

j/k

Going for a NASCAR reference I guess.. Project Daytona? Oh wait, that makes you think Dodge.

Project _________

Not to shoot you down but "Project Laguna" isn't very snappy... "Project Hot Lap Laguna" ?

All I know is that I challenge the Laguna to best lap run against the Track Rat at Buttonwillow when they're done. Loser washes the winner's car. lol

[StRacerDuke]

You're missing an option above for 'Not interested in the project at all'.

[Steve1968LS2]

You're missing an option above for 'Not interested in the project at all'.

ouch ... lol

[BonzoHansen]

I hate the nascar thing they are gonna do to it.

[TonyL]

Thread jack.

Anyone get the current issue of PHR yet? see "the girls of the year one event" masterpiece Hunkins put together? I don't know about you guys, but when I buy a magazine, what I want is event coverage of THE GIRLS THAT WERE THERE. Not the cars! Who wants to see the cars?!

/sarcasm

Seriously. There were SIX blurbs about the girls of the year one event. Out of like 10 snippets. Hunkins, cover the damn cars already. And STOP taking picks of 16 year olds. It's sick. Really.

**end threadjack.**

I think the laguna will come off wrong. I don't like it. It could have been a good all around hot rod. Now, it'll be a redneck wannabe fantasy car. Why not add a pushbar and whiptail antenna and complete the look?

[BonzoHansen]

Thread jack.

Anyone get the current issue of PHR yet? see "the girls of the year one event" masterpiece Hunkins put together? I don't know about you guys, but when I buy a magazine, what I want is event coverage of THE GIRLS THAT WERE THERE. Not the cars! Who wants to see the cars?!

/sarcasm

Seriously. There were SIX blurbs about the girls of the year one event. Out of like 10 snippets. Hunkins, cover the damn cars already. And STOP taking picks of 16 year olds. It's sick. Really.

**end threadjack.**oddly enough I thought that too..but I do like girls, so I am emotionaly torn...


I think the laguna will come off wrong. I don't like it. It could have been a good all around hot rod. Now, it'll be a redneck wannabe fantasy car. Why not add a pushbar and whiptail antenna and complete the look?Dump it in the pool like in cannonball run.

[kp.touring]

Just for the record NASCAR did run at Laguna '73 thru '79. Some of the driver's were some good ol' boys named Richard Petty and Bobbie Alison.

Kevin

[trapin]

Just the name NASCAR makes me sick these days.

The National Association Of Stock Car Auto Racing?

Yeah right. Show me one thing that's stock on that stupid Car Of Tomorrow. I'd rather watch Rally Cars whippin' through the mud over in Germany.

To me THAT is pure stock car racing.

[Modo Innovations]

Because "Project Big Ass Bumpers" was already taken.. lol

:lmao:

[JEFFTATE]

I like the Nascar theme.
So there.
There's nothing wrong with it.
It's just different.
And the Racecar look on a street car is great.
Hell , I'd do a Vintage Trans-am look on my car if I could.

But , yeah , " Talladega" does remind me of a Torino.

And , you're right Tony ,the latest incarnation of NASCAR isn't very stock at all.
I don't think they even call it Stock-Car racing anymore.
But the racing itself is pretty darn good.
I just hate the hours and hours of media circus surrounding the race.
They are overshadowing the racing action with too much information.

I try to watch more roadracing and rally stuff if I can find it on TV.

Anyway , I think project "Talledega" is alright.

[Steve1968LS2]

I would love to do a Vintage Trans Am car ... that would be so cool.

And let's be real, what else are you going to do with a 75 Laguna? It really doesn't make sense to stuff a ton of $$$ into it. The NASCAR tribute idea was about the best choice.

I'll still beat it on the track though ;)

[showa]

I like the "Stock Car" racer look myself....IF done right.....

As for NASCAR, well I find myself enjoying Daytona Prototypes ALOT more.......I hardly watch a NASCAR race/show anymore....

[JEFFTATE]

I like the "Stock Car" racer look myself....IF done right.....

As for NASCAR, well I find myself enjoying Daytona Prototypes ALOT more.......I hardly watch a NASCAR race/show anymore....

Me too.
I've been watching :
Grand Am Rolex Series.
American LeMans Series.
Formula 1 ( When I can find the TV listings. They're not on the F1 website. )
and even Indycar.( Danica screws up a lot , but it's still cool racing )

I just love roadcourse stuff.
I find it more interesting than ovals because I try to put myself in the drivers seat.
Ever since I drove on Road Atlanta a couple of years ago , I've been hooked on roadcourse stuff !

[WILWAXU]

I bet that thing is a tank! What do they weigh?

[nickdoe6]

Do they have big orange cones on this NASCAR thing y'all are talking about? If so, I'll nail 'em.

Nick

[JEFFTATE]

Do they have big orange cones on this NASCAR thing y'all are talking about? If so, I'll nail 'em.

Nick

Yeah , they got 'em in the infield.

[nickdoe6]

Yeah , they got 'em in the infield. Well then, I'm there.
Hey Steve O! Can I borrow your car?

Nick

[Nammpy]

Ol Jim Here,
I am sure that some of you must of read the PHR more than once and found that every project gets negative noise. At least there keeping it interesting. It will be a real chore to keep the masses happy.
I am not real happy with the new NASCAR changes either but I have watched the sport for many years and seen many changes. I hope that when it is all shook out they remember what brought the people in the first place...Stock cars... Win on Sunday Sell on Monday.
It is begining to look like the SCCA is the only, "Stock Car" Place to Race. Well that and Pro-touring.

Jim

[Steve1968LS2]

Well then, I'm there.
Hey Steve O! Can I borrow your car?

Nick

Why does eveyone wanna crash my cars?

[Damn True]

You're missing an option above for 'Not interested in the project at all'.

x2



Seriously. There were SIX blurbs about the girls of the year one event. Out of like 10 snippets. Hunkins, cover the damn cars already. And STOP taking picks of 16 year olds. It's sick. Really.

x3

"Project Talladega" just sounds like a Ford. Period.

....and wasn't the "retro stock-car" thing something that Freiburger floated like 100 times and nobody bit on it? Perhaps because it's silly? Way to have an original idea Hunkins.

[zerotofear]

Back in the day, boys,the big three would tweak a chevette if it would show promise of winning at Talladega, or Daytona. The old 200 lb front bumper S3 was one of those animals. Nascar has brought some cool rides out just for speed on super speedways. Its part of history can't change it. I hate the car of tomorrow, but spent 20 years tweakin the rules, while Ford bitched that everybody else had a unfair advantage, like communists they wanted everybody to be the same, they got it.

The boys got the SmokinSS in paint used Upol Raptor on the inside, great product, added an ounce of Hot Hues base to each quart of tintable Raptor. The aluminum dash looks like leather. Checkout the pictures on www.smokinss.info (http://www.smokinss.info)

[YancyJohns]

The boys got the SmokinSS in paint used Upol Raptor on the inside, great product, added an ounce of Hot Hues base to each quart of tintable Raptor. The aluminum dash looks like leather. Checkout the pictures on www.smokinss.info (http://www.smokinss.info)

I went to see the SmokinSS about 4 months ago and Holly **** it looks awesome now. I need to stop back in again. It's great that kids have a school dedicated to performance vehicle fabrication.:twothumbs

[BonzoHansen]

x3

"Project Talladega" just sounds like a Ford. Period.

....and wasn't the "retro stock-car" thing something that Freiburger floated like 100 times and nobody bit on it? Perhaps because it's silly? Way to have an original idea Hunkins.
Dead on. The lack of imagination is stunning.

[GPI]

No interest here either, just continues with the downward trend in the last three or so issues of the magazine as far as I'm concerned. If I wanted to see a bunch of new challengers/chargers/ mustangs I would go buy those magazines. Dump the laguna project and fill it with Dream car of the month renderings.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

well..

my honest opinion (which may or may not be shared)


Mr Vengeance thinks that project build..............................

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif




























































sucks...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/809456266_c31f74d354-1.jpg?v=0

[Steve1968LS2]

Dump the laguna project and fill it with Dream car of the month renderings.

The dream car section was dumped... :shrug:

The Laguna can be cool if done right. Personally I would have done big Ford like a Galaxie (and older sixties era one).

[SaturnVUEguy]

I don't like circle track racing at all, I prefer cars that can turn both left AND right. Rally racing is by far my favorite type of motorsports, followed closely by touring car/road racing/whatever else you call it, especially enduro races

[Johnny Hunkins]

I really don't care if a few people don't like it. It's my car. I grew up in North Carolina in the '60s and '70s when NASCAR used these stock car bodies. There's going to be a lot of inexpensive custom touches on it you'll be able to duplicate that you'll like. (The rear bumper is going to be shrunk too, Steven.)

If a '75 Laguna isn't unique enough, we can always fall back on another first-gen Camaro. I'd probably pick a Firebird just to be a little different.

Part of the reason I call the Laguna "Project Talladega" is to promote a song I wrote called "Talladega Pile-Up." Here's a link to it if you want to listen (might be too rockin' for the geriatric set):

http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=65252

Some guys could find a way to complain about a free stack of hundred dollar bills.

[Damn True]

I'm square in the middle of your demographic JH and I'm telling you, more people than not find it creepy.

The rest......whatever.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Sorry. Don't mean to creep you out. Girls in car magazines have been a staple ever since car magazines have been around. What's new is actually putting some information in there about them. Same as we do with the guys.

[Damn True]

You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. I'm as "red-blooded" an American male as they come. But I have a wife, we have friends, other people have kids. I don't want to feel like I should keep my car mags hidden in my sock drawer.

All things in moderation. I think if it were tempered with an equal number of photos of the car owners, and if the average age of your subjects came up a little it wouldn't impact people as much.

But honestly from the outside it comes across as a lecher patrolling the show grounds snapping pics of peoples daughters.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Wow. What must people think when I put pictures of little kids in there? Next thing you know, I'll be on the pro-touring.com sex offender registry. Man, you busted me. Every single woman that has appeared in PHR is someone's daughter. The average age of the women appearing in the Year One event coverage in our most recent issue (there were 6) was 31. People mistake me for a lecher all the time. And still, they let me take their picture!

[69Nova]

I for one like the idea of Project Talladega. My car will get some old school NASCAR touches real soon.

Oh and Hunkins your song would work killer if they ever make a Days of Thunder 2.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Thanks for that. Looks like you're in the heart of stock car racing country too. Must be tough deciding to go to Daytona, Darlington, Talladega, or Atlanta.

[TonyL]

Wow. What must people think when I put pictures of little kids in there? Next thing you know, I'll be on the pro-touring.com sex offender registry. Man, you busted me. Every single woman that has appeared in PHR is someone's daughter. The average age of the women appearing in the Year One event coverage in our most recent issue (there were 6) was 31. People mistake me for a lecher all the time. And still, they let me take their picture!

What makes you think people *WANT* to see pictures of some guy's daughter johnny?

Show coverage is supposed to be about the cars. Not the vendor booths, the cars that showed up. Who won? Show us a picture of that. I for one don't want pictures of attendees at a car show. Male or female.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Show coverage is about the show and everything in it. Cars, people, products, activities. That's my editorial philosophy, and I'll stand by that all day long. People aren't always going to like it.

You're a tough customer though, Tony. You didn't like it when we put your car in the magazine. Steven or I must've done something to slight you that I'm unaware of. For the record, I thought your Corvair was cool.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/CalvinHobbsCalmDown-1.jpg

i might not like the perticular project build..

but i DO like the magazine..

take it easy Johnny.. folks on PT.com got love for ya.. even if you are too rockin for em..

ahaha!

[Steve1968LS2]

Some guys could find a way to complain about a free stack of hundred dollar bills.

On this I would have to agree.. lol

[TonyL]

Don't get me wrong Johnny. I like PHR. I do. It's still my favorite magazine and I plan on keeping my subscription. My opinions are just that. Opinions.
Im sure you hear them all day long. I assumed you'd have a thicker skin about it, so I'm sorry for that. The rant of the month got me thinking about my own pet peeves.

Few have the ability to get such a direct dialog going with the editor of a major magazine, so I apologize for coming across mean. I've long had the pet peeve of wishing for event coverage that showcased the winners of the show. It's rare that you find out who won, who the top 5 were and so on, in photos rather than text. And I view it as an opportunity missed is all. I've also noted that there are more and more half page shots of young women in the shows you cover. I look at that and say, "that's half a page that could have showcased someone's hard work, and made someone's day." But that's just me.

Who told you I didn't like my car in your mag? That for me was one of the best days of my life. A huge honor, and I'm supremely thankful for you allowing it. Really. I have no way to express how big a deal that was to me. If I've never properly thanked you, well, thank you.

Thanks for running my dad's truck too.

So in short, Sorry for coming across as a jerk, I still feel the way I do about the event coverages though. Keep putting out a great mag, And I hope that the unfortunately named "talledega project" Comes out awesome and starts a new trend. (I'd do the red version. flat black is getting played out, take it from me.) I'm just not sure how ready the public is for a nascar'd laguna. But go for it. Evolution is what keeps the hobby moving forward.

Oh, and don't hold PT.com responsible for my views. I'm just one guy.

the opinions and views reflect the opinion of the author and my not necessarily reflect the views of pro-touring.com lol

[moparnate]

keep up the good work johnny, I like the build idea and the pictures of the girls. dont change a thing! I started my subscription up after 10 years of CC and Hot Rod and I look forward to your Mag every month.

[Steve1968LS2]

Is this where we all join in a circle and sing "KumBayYa"? (or however the hell you spell that song)

:grouphug:

[TonyL]

Back to the name of the project.

Too bad you couldn't get away with badasscar or something.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Back on the topic at hand...

My experience was growing up in the South at a time when the Laguna dominated stock car racing. I just like the way those racecars looked. Chances are pretty good that guys my age who grew up in the South will like it too.

Having said that, I'm particularly disappointed with NASCAR and their COT. That's one of the reasons I'm looking backwards in time for inspiration.

The car is being painted satin black, not flat black. This will give it an attractive sheen that won't turn chalky over time. Even without the graphics, this car is going to be stunning to a lot of people.

All the graphic treatments are being done in vinyl, so that they can be removed or updated over time. The nice thing about them is that if you don't like the way the car looks, you can easily change it.

This is not a road race or track day car. It is a tribute car that will be highway driven and occasionally drag raced. Updated with a real engine (525hp), an overdrive trans, better tires, bigger brakes, and some minor suspension tweaks, it will be a modest car capable of taking on cars like the new Mustang GT, Camaro V8, and Hemi Challenger.

Interesting fact: According to the Encyclopedia of American Cars, the '75 Laguna had a shipping weight of 3,908 pounds, which makes it 100 lbs heavier than the new V8 Camaro, and 100 pounds lighter than the new Hemi Challenger.

In my mind, it is an advantage to have an inexpensive hot rod that can be driven every day. Our mods will reflect a street-oriented strategy, and mods will be kept affordable. At the end of the day, it's still a '75 Chevy, so it makes sense to keep things modest.

[Young Gun]

Good luck, should be interesting to see it done. My parents we not even married when these cars were being run in nascar! I will be keeping my eye on this build!

[BA.]

I like the concept, the idea and I even like Laguna's but I am really turned off by those Holley graphics. yeah, yeah, I read the article,.....I'd still rather see different graphics,........maybe even a body color other than the satin black.

either way, different is good and the Laguna has good lines.


.

[DarkBuddha]

I'll say it again... I like the Laguna as a project, but the name... sigh... and now that I know that it's to help pimp the song doesn't help. And Johnny, I'm sorry to say I'm not a fan of the song.

BTW...

Oh and Hunkins your song would work killer if they ever make a Days of Thunder 2.
Oh, there's a ringing endorsement if ever there was one.:pat:

[trapin]

I just don't get the need for Car Of Tommorow or the Lafrance family's pandering to Toyota. I'm on Jack's side on this. No more special treatment for those blow job hacks. Joe(sell out)Gibbs just got busted for cheating. I love it. Toyota needed those magnets and I'll bet the sancitioning body looked the other way for as long as they could so Toyota and all their money could get their footing in the series. Nice.....real nice. Oh and try building your own damn motor while you're at it. What's the matter Toyota? Can't handle this high performance stuff?

Don't get the need for all this safety crap either. Petty and Yarbough raced in stamped steel warriors with the same engines you could find at your local dealership. Throw in a cage, weld the doors shut and get the hell out of their way. There weren't no chicken sh*ts back then. So the hell what if Earnhardt's head popped off when he hit the wall??!!! I loved that b*stard but he knew the risks of the sport....he knew what was involved. That's the way it should be. I WANT REAL CARS AND REAL PRODUCTION ENGINES WITH SEASONED DRIVERS THAT ARE PISSED OFF AND WANNA KILL EACH OTHER. RACE THE REAL THING OR DON'T RACE AT ALL. There might be less accidents if everyone knew that their cars weren't as safe as they are today.

NASCAR....should be called NACCAR; National Association Of Cookie Cutter Auto Racing.

Alright, I'm done with the soapbox....who want's it next?

[DarkBuddha]

WHOA TONY! I'm with you on the real cars real racing thing, but I'm a fan of safety too. I think they can have both.

[BonzoHansen]

The car is being painted satin black, not flat black. This will give it an attractive sheen that won't turn chalky over time. Even without the graphics, this car is going to be stunning to a lot of people.

All the graphic treatments are being done in vinyl, so that they can be removed or updated over time. The nice thing about them is that if you don't like the way the car looks, you can easily change it.That’s good about the graphics. But the primer-like paint - great, stereotype personified. The car has neat lines too. The 76 Camaro project came out great, with a modern look that will not look dated in 5 years, turning the 74-77 Camaro stereotype on its head. Many more people now see the potential in those cars now.

Oh well, good luck. Prove the naysayers wrong.

Oh yeah, NASCAR sucks. NACCAR, lol

[Damn True]

I just don't get the need for Car Of Tommorow or the Lafrance family's pandering to Toyota. I'm on Jack's side on this. No more special treatment for those blow job hacks. Joe(sell out)Gibbs just got busted for cheating. I love it. Toyota needed those magnets and I'll bet the sancitioning body looked the other way for as long as they could so Toyota and all their money could get their footing in the series. Nice.....real nice. Oh and try building your own damn motor while you're at it. What's the matter Toyota? Can't handle this high performance stuff?

Don't get the need for all this safety crap either. Petty and Yarbough raced in stamped steel warriors with the same engines you could find at your local dealership. Throw in a cage, weld the doors shut and get the hell out of their way. There weren't no chicken sh*ts back then. So the hell what if Earnhardt's head popped off when he hit the wall??!!! I loved that b*stard but he knew the risks of the sport....he knew what was involved. That's the way it should be. I WANT REAL CARS AND REAL PRODUCTION ENGINES WITH SEASONED DRIVERS THAT ARE PISSED OFF AND WANNA KILL EACH OTHER. RACE THE REAL THING OR DON'T RACE AT ALL. There might be less accidents if everyone knew that their cars weren't as safe as they are today.

NASCAR....should be called NACCAR; National Association Of Cookie Cutter Auto Racing.

Alright, I'm done with the soapbox....who want's it next?

This is actually a far more interesting topic than the one that started the thread.

I think that WRC, and too many Sports/Touring car classes to count have proved that you can make a safe race car out of a production chassis. I agree Tony. The COT thing is awful.

[BuddyP]

Tony, I could've have said it any better myself... Toyota has big pockets and the Frances have big hands, end of story. I have yet to watch one nascar race this year.

[trapin]

Look at Rally cars. Those things dart through the woods at record speeds with reckless abandon. Nothing safe about Rally racing yet all the cars are real production models. They must be doing something to them to make them safe enough.

Thanks Buddy. Once again, it was great meeting up with you at Woodward yesterday. You gotta come up for Autorama.

[TonyL]

Not to mention at a WRC race the fan stand on the track! I've seen those cars flip 8 times and slam into a 4 foot diameter tree trunk updside down, and the guys get out and walk off laughing. Seems to me that'd be a hell of a lot worse than sideswiping a wall at 160 mph.

[JEFFTATE]

Sorry. Don't mean to creep you out. Girls in car magazines have been a staple ever since car magazines have been around. What's new is actually putting some information in there about them. Same as we do with the guys.

I agree with Johnny on this point.
There's nothing wrong with pictures of girls in magazines.
Girls have been in magazines since the '50s ( and before ).
It's not like he's got pics of teenage girls in thongs or something.
He's got pictures of female automotive enthusiasts in PHR.
That encourages participation in our hobby.
It's a good thing .

[BonzoHansen]

Not to mention at a WRC race the fan stand on the track! I've seen those cars flip 8 times and slam into a 4 foot diameter tree trunk updside down, and the guys get out and walk off laughing. Seems to me that'd be a hell of a lot worse than sideswiping a wall at 160 mph.
It's the stright into the wall at 185+ that hurts (ala #3) :angel:

[SaturnVUEguy]

I'm loving these comments against NASCAR (NACCAR is an awesome idea) and for WRC.

As for the WRC cars...they start with a stock chassis that you and I could buy at the local dealer, strip the car clean, install a whole new suspension depending on the rally type...Tarmac rallies the cars are slammed, light gravel they have average ground clearance, rough gravel rallies the cars look lifted. Each type of rally uses a different type of wheel too, with more solid looking wheels to protect the brakes from gravel and debris on the gravel rallies. Add in a massive rollcage with 5 point harnesses, tune the motor to 300hp with a turbo and AWD.

Of course there is more to it than that, but that is still much closer to stock than stock car racing!

[TonyL]

And I'd still like to see a racing series based on WRC like modified "stock" cars. Show guys running with a modded factory engine tuned to the very limit of its output. *That* would get the public fired up about racing again. And we'd get the sweeter stuff they only get over seas that way, they'd have to make the best engines available here to compete.

It's only a matter of time until someone fills the void. NASCAR was born out of a need that wasn't filled by the racing giants of the time. Time for some other organization to rear its head.

[David Sloan]

And I'd still like to see a racing series based on WRC like modified "stock" cars. Show guys running with a modded factory engine tuned to the very limit of its output. *That* would get the public fired up about racing again. And we'd get the sweeter stuff they only get over seas that way, they'd have to make the best engines available here to compete.

It's only a matter of time until someone fills the void. NASCAR was born out of a need that wasn't filled by the racing giants of the time. Time for some other organization to rear its head.

I think you read my mind! I could not agree more
Thanks!

[Steve1968LS2]

It's bad enough that they don't run REAL cars any longer.. but they cheat too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405301,00.html

I have nothing about bending rules to be "creative" but cheating is weak.

[Damn True]

And I'd still like to see a racing series based on WRC like modified "stock" cars. Show guys running with a modded factory engine tuned to the very limit of its output. *That* would get the public fired up about racing again. And we'd get the sweeter stuff they only get over seas that way, they'd have to make the best engines available here to compete.

It's only a matter of time until someone fills the void. NASCAR was born out of a need that wasn't filled by the racing giants of the time. Time for some other organization to rear its head.

Aussie V-8 Supercar Series?

[TonyL]

yeah, but with oval tracks. I'd rather see that race than "stock car" racing.

[Damn True]

IMO if the cars were like the Aussie series and did 50% road and 50% oval you'd have it nailed.

Poncho G-8 has the initial advantage.


Hell 30% road and 70% oval would still be better.

[TonyL]

I think a 30/70 split would work better, at least until the american public became used to the idea, and the more road courses could be added later on once they learned that's where the real drivers shine.

Why, oh why wont this happen?

[SaturnVUEguy]

Tony, I like your thinking here! Why is it that we get the wussy (young eyes) versions of our own American cars, while Europeans and Australians get the best stuff? I'd rather see an all road course series like this, but I'd still settle for some oval track too, as long as the cars are built off a stock chassis like they are in the WRC. Then we could get special homologation (sp) rules for limited produciton higher output engines/cars

[SaturnVUEguy]

I really don't care if a few people don't like it. It's my car. I grew up in North Carolina in the '60s and '70s when NASCAR used these stock car bodies. There's going to be a lot of inexpensive custom touches on it you'll be able to duplicate that you'll like. (The rear bumper is going to be shrunk too, Steven.)

If a '75 Laguna isn't unique enough, we can always fall back on another first-gen Camaro. I'd probably pick a Firebird just to be a little different.

Part of the reason I call the Laguna "Project Talladega" is to promote a song I wrote called "Talladega Pile-Up." Here's a link to it if you want to listen (might be too rockin' for the geriatric set):

http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=65252

Some guys could find a way to complain about a free stack of hundred dollar bills.Listened to the song last night, and I like it! Not a circle track fan, but its a good song either way!

[Part Time]

I'll bite.

Who built the white charger with the red bumble bee stripe and gold 17" or 18" wheels that was in PHR awhile back ? That car had a modern "stock car" flare with a ton of serious hardware. It was the real deal. If I remember correctly the floors were painted instead of carpet. IMOH that car nailed the vintage "stock car" for the street image. Talladega can be a pretty cool car but the plan as it is currently layed out has zero eye appeal. I'd go with a suttle two tone in satin (white and gold?) with "ghost" numbers and decals. I think it would get the point across with out being so in your face. But hey, it's not mine and to each his own. Selling a magazine car build / series ,or what ever you call it has to be very difficult. You'd want to build it your way but you want to sell magazines too. Tough one. To close I'm damn tired and will not "proof" this for stupid errors or what not. Another 12 hr day and I'm detoxing with my Pro-Touring.com fix before I leave. No internet at home. Later.

[TonyHuntimer]

I'll bite.

Who built the white charger with the red bumble bee stripe and gold 17" or 18" wheels that was in PHR awhile back ? That car had a modern "stock car" flare with a ton of serious hardware. It was the real deal. If I remember correctly the floors were painted instead of carpet. IMOH that car nailed the vintage "stock car" for the street image. Talladega can be a pretty cool car but the plan as it is currently layed out has zero eye appeal. I'd go with a suttle two tone in satin (white and gold?) with "ghost" numbers and decals. I think it would get the point across with out being so in your face. But hey, it's not mine and to each his own. Selling a magazine car build / series ,or what ever you call it has to be very difficult. You'd want to build it your way but you want to sell magazines too. Tough one. To close I'm damn tired and will not "proof" this for stupid errors or what not. Another 12 hr day and I'm detoxing with my Pro-Touring.com fix before I leave. No internet at home. Later.

That Charger was built by the genius Steve Strope.

http://www.namtramedia.com/clients/purevision/site/rides_otr_poteet.asp

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[TonyL]

Pure vision built it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Tony_SS]

That Charger was built by the genius Steve Strope.

http://www.namtramedia.com/clients/purevision/site/rides_otr_poteet.asp

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

Steve has done some amazing work.

[barraza]

Wow, this discussion strayed pretty far off topic!!!

I love the Laguna, but hate the satin paint and graphics.

Chicks in magazines, who cares. Always been there, always will be. I haven't noticed any glaringly underage in PHR.

Nascar sucks?? Why is it that when anyone doesn't like something, they think that everyone else that does like it is wrong. Face reality, Nascar is popular because people watch, lots and lots of people. Money comes from TV ratings, the WRC is interesting but not on the same planet in popularity. The COT car came from safety, and ability to enforce the rules. If you disagree with the safety aspect, you are an idiot. While I hate that the time has come, the days of developing a car in the garage are gone forever. The only thing stock type chassis does is make it impossible to police cheating. I spent time SCCA racing, there is more cheating going on than NASCAR has ever seen. Take 600 racers, many of which are engineers (the number of employees the big teams have),give them an unlimited budget, and try to policy them. Even F1 has a rulebook that ensures essentially identical cars.

Nascar's COT was just an effort to not do what CART did to indy cars and what F1 has flirted with over the years, make the cost to be competitive run all the cars out of the series.

[6'9"Witha69]

Wow, this discussion strayed pretty far off topic!!!

I love the Laguna, but hate the satin paint and graphics.

Chicks in magazines, who cares. Always been there, always will be. I haven't noticed any glaringly underage in PHR.

Nascar sucks?? Why is it that when anyone doesn't like something, they think that everyone else that does like it is wrong. Face reality, Nascar is popular because people watch, lots and lots of people. Money comes from TV ratings, the WRC is interesting but not on the same planet in popularity. The COT car came from safety, and ability to enforce the rules. If you disagree with the safety aspect, you are an idiot. While I hate that the time has come, the days of developing a car in the garage are gone forever. The only thing stock type chassis does is make it impossible to police cheating. I spent time SCCA racing, there is more cheating going on than NASCAR has ever seen. Take 600 racers, many of which are engineers (the number of employees the big teams have),give them an unlimited budget, and try to policy them. Even F1 has a rulebook that ensures essentially identical cars.

Nascar's COT was just an effort to not do what CART did to indy cars and what F1 has flirted with over the years, make the cost to be competitive run all the cars out of the series.I agree. Our beloved guldstrand mod was basically a cheat in the beginning.

[Damn True]

Development, innovation, cheating. Depends on where one finishes the race.

Rest assured, there is still cheating going on in NASCAR....and lots of it. The wealthiest car company in the world did not have the talent to develop a competitive engine within the rulebook so they cheated, then cheated again to try to hide it. They've only been in that game for a few years. The FoMoCo and Chevy guys for decades.

[DarkBuddha]

BTW, if guys were ever gonna do a proper stockcar "Talladega", you missed your chance with the "Fastlane Fairlane". I'm still wishing ya'll would've done this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[TonyL]

Note: my beef is not just girls in the mag, but that content was lost to include the girls. Look at the year one event coverage in this months PHR. I feel too much was left out. There were a lot of cars there that should have gotten ink that didn't. That's my point. I like scantily clad models as much as the next guy. But models laid out on cars. That compliments the photo shoot. Just including girls for filler though. Not so much.

[DarkBuddha]

We should start another thread about the content of PHR, 'cause I too have become more than a bit bored and annoyed with the content. Forget models, forget gratuitous shots of girls for the sake of "looky, there were girls at a car event! Holy crap!", and forget never-gets-driven and only-goes-straight-well and everything-came-off-a-website cars. 'Cause I'd like to be inspired again... reminded of what's fun and cool... and made envious by less than pristine cars because they actually do the stuff we love and don't cost a ton to do it!

[Tony_SS]

I'm as "red-blooded" an American male as they come. But I have a wife, we have friends, other people have kids. I don't want to feel like I should keep my car mags hidden in my sock drawer.

I'll stray off topic too... I agree w/DT here, and the last 2 posts as well. Keep it about the cars. And I miss the 'Dream Car of the Month' page, that was a neat feature.

[TonyL]

Dream car of the month was one of my favorite parts of the mag actually. I would always flip to the back to see what was there first.

[Part Time]

That's it.

Johnny should consider taking a few notes from this one.

I think he could get the nascar tribute idea across by using this as a template, or close to it. It would probably have a greater following too.

But whada I know! Nuthin!






Pure vision built it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[SaturnVUEguy]

the WRC is interesting but not on the same planet in popularityWRC is popular all over the world, NASCAR is only popular in the US.


The only thing stock type chassis does is make it impossible to police cheating. I spent time SCCA racing, there is more cheating going on than NASCAR has ever seen. Take 600 racers, many of which are engineers (the number of employees the big teams have),give them an unlimited budget, and try to policy them. Even F1 has a rulebook that ensures essentially identical cars.

Nascar's COT was just an effort to not do what CART did to indy cars and what F1 has flirted with over the years, make the cost to be competitive run all the cars out of the series.
With that said, do you think the WRC should start using cookie cutters too?

[Twentyover]

Nascar's COT was just an effort to not do what CART did to indy cars and what F1 has flirted with over the years, make the cost to be competitive run all the cars out of the series.

Respectfully disagree. These are now spec cars using different engines and paint jobs- Just like Indy/Champ cars (except they all have the same motors). Each frame tube needs to be within 3mm? no chance for innovation in chassis or suspension design, the only advantage in any spec series is driver talent and cheating

FI follows good form w/ multiple tub and engine manufacturers. As much as I despise Bad Bernie, he's made F1 interesting again in the last few years after a drought of Ferrarri lead parades.

But I digress......

[Damn True]

I'll stray off topic too... I agree w/DT here, and the last 2 posts as well. Keep it about the cars. And I miss the 'Dream Car of the Month' page, that was a neat feature.


IMO we could do with about 30-40% LESS "Engine Masters" content as well.

[barraza]

WRC is popular all over the world, NASCAR is only popular in the US.


With that said, do you think the WRC should start using cookie cutters too?

B.S.

I like WRC, but their worldwide total fans are tiny compared to NASCAR. Don't you rember when rally cars were basically unlimited? Costs and horsepower were out of control, and it almost killed the series. WRC cars ARE cookie cutter compared to what they used to be.

PS - NASCAR is not just a US thing. When I traveled in Europe 15 years ago, conversations with car guys always lead to them asking if I went to Talladega, after they found out I lived in Alabama. I met lots of people who were fans.

[barraza]

Respectfully disagree. These are now spec cars using different engines and paint jobs- Just like Indy/Champ cars (except they all have the same motors). Each frame tube needs to be within 3mm? no chance for innovation in chassis or suspension design, the only advantage in any spec series is driver talent and cheating

FI follows good form w/ multiple tub and engine manufacturers. As much as I despise Bad Bernie, he's made F1 interesting again in the last few years after a drought of Ferrarri lead parades.

But I digress......
F1 cars have multiple tub and engine manufacturers, but the rule book is so tight that it takes cubic dollars to make a difference. You can hardly tell them apart without sponsor decals. How many teams have a chance at winning a race, 2 or 3? F1 is not the answer.

[69stang]

I've always liked the Laguna. The Talledega name is already assosiated with the torino. And I don't particularly like the flat or satin body paint. The nascar theme is fine if not overdone but to each their own. I'm sure some won't like my mustang.

OT
It seems all the car rags are showing more & more female "models" in their magazines. I like the ladies as much as the next guy but I buy the magazines for the car content not because some nice chick is standing next to it. I've been dropping my subscriptions because of it. Besides, I can usually find any info I need online now so Hunkins can keep his PHR.

[bobbaganoosh]

I've always liked the Laguna.

Me too, I think it would be a cool project. Not too sure on the satin black though, but it's not my car. I also have not been a fan of nascrap for a long time.

[SaturnVUEguy]

B.S.

I like WRC, but their worldwide total fans are tiny compared to NASCAR. Don't you rember when rally cars were basically unlimited? Costs and horsepower were out of control, and it almost killed the series. WRC cars ARE cookie cutter compared to what they used to be.

PS - NASCAR is not just a US thing. When I traveled in Europe 15 years ago, conversations with car guys always lead to them asking if I went to Talladega, after they found out I lived in Alabama. I met lots of people who were fans.:bsjerk:
Tell me then, why is it that NASCAR is only run in the US, specifically the southern region? And why is it that the WRC is in a different country every weekend?

Sure, the WRC cars are more cookie cutter than they used to be, but compare that to what NASCAR is racing. The reason Group B is no longer raced, is because the cars were too fast and not safe enough, killing the drivers and spectators. I'm too young to have seen that with my own eyes, but that is what I've gathered over time from what I've read and seen/heard on tv

[Dragonsnake]

After reading this thread,i must say that Nascar is known here in europe and some will say that the cars barely turn and that the cars just goes round and round an oval..

But arent Nascar one of the most american things to happen?.Its big and much show and i guess one of the few motorsport series that can be watched from a seat.Wrc are cool,but you better have a helicopter bringing you around to getting som glimps of the cars.

And i guess one of the things tourists from europe and the rest of the world will want to watch when visiting the Us,are Nascar Hollywood Grand canyon Route 66 etc.

Be proud of it.

And i agree to the fact that the cars in nascar should have been more like the cars in the showrooms.But having seen the cars that are competing in the Btcc and Dtm here in europe,im possibly sure that 90% or more of the cars have parts that werent on the car form the beginning.

Then i would like to say that i dont like the satin paint on the Phr Laguna,but i will wait and see how it look when finished to say more.For a 19 year old,there are no nice 69 camaro to pick up cheap any longer.So a satin black car 75 laguna will get simpler to build and then not so costly.

When the pro-touring trend started i was thrilled by the fact that finally were gonna see american muscle taking some abuse at the tracks.We wanted to see these cars built up as real road handling machines and getting used like one.

The cost and all the details in the suspension and everywhere else on the cars have taken over the fun and showing that you dont get a guy to drive fast if the mouldings are new..

So i like the idea to mr Hunkins.

A 75 Laguna are easier to modify to a handling machine than a 69 camaro too.

[JV69z/28]

That's it.

Johnny should consider taking a few notes from this one.

I think he could get the nascar tribute idea across by using this as a template, or close to it. It would probably have a greater following too.

But whada I know! Nuthin!
:twothumbs I couldn't agree with you more! The Pure Vision car gets the point across - it has a ton of eye appeal - and it's not over the top. I think the flat black (which is fine and can look real good in some applications) and all the graphics are overkill. I'll second the "but whada I know" also.

[barraza]

:bsjerk:
Tell me then, why is it that NASCAR is only run in the US, specifically the southern region? And why is it that the WRC is in a different country every weekend?

Sure, the WRC cars are more cookie cutter than they used to be, but compare that to what NASCAR is racing. The reason Group B is no longer raced, is because the cars were too fast and not safe enough, killing the drivers and spectators. I'm too young to have seen that with my own eyes, but that is what I've gathered over time from what I've read and seen/heard on tv
Listen, I'm not trying to say Nascar is the best thing going, but you're not making a consistant argument. Unregulated group B was too fast? What do you think would become of any unregulated series? Without a strict rulebook, all racers from soapbox derby to F1 eventually slide toward faster and more costly, its what racers do. Nascar is obviously biased toward very even cars and drivers making the difference, F1 is the opposite with the cars being more important. If the WRC cars ran at Nascar speeds and wheel to wheel, you can bet their rules would take body shape and aero into account as much as Nascar.

Take your pick, there is room for both. Don't however, make the mistake of thinking that Nascar is low tech, or dumb. The fast end of any ultra competitive field is very developed. Low tech looking, doesnt mean low tech.

And Nascar isn't just a southern thing anymore, well over half the races are outside the south. Are you really knocking them for not being international? By that type of standard, F1 and WRC aren't really international either, if I'm not mistaken all the teams are based in just a couple of european countries.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Project Talladega is not a modern NASCAR racer. It is a visual tribute to a style of car built over 30 years ago. If you don't like today's NASCAR racing, or the COT, I hope it does not color your opinion of the PHR project car. I'll try to be understanding, however, if you can't divorce the two ideas from each other.

As for Strope's awesome '69 Charger, we were not allowed to shoot it. It was a Hot Rod exclusive, and appeared in that magazine. Don't get the idea that it was some kind of budget build like the Laguna. The Charger build cost crowded $200,000.

Other than the orange graphics, Project Talladega is identical in spirit to the Trans Am Nova that Chris Gray rendered in the Dreamcar Of The Month page. (It was the inspiration for this project--which lends itself to a NASCAR-oriented theme.) Did you guys like that one, but still hate the Laguna?

Just to keep tabs on the argument: we've got NASCAR haters, Laguna haters, satin black haters, sponsor/decal haters, Hunkins haters, PHR haters, girl-in-magazine haters, and print magazine haters. Lotta hatin' going on. Does that about cover it?

If you like Project Talladega, then thanks. I appreciate it.

And how 'bout those Olympics!

[Damn True]

Argumentum ad verecundiam

[Johnny Hunkins]

For the rest of you who didn't go to Catholic school, that's Latin for "proof of a feeling of shame."

Don't be ridiculous.

[Bill Howell]

Johnny, just be thankful this is the forum that LOVES You....LOL

I don't hate much of anything, except my EX-wife.

OH, and if I was doing a tribute car, it would be a Junior Johnson 63 cheby, but that's just me.

I just hope PHR keeps featuring Protouring cars, both high and low end. Otherwise, I don't have much of an outlet for my taste in cars.

[TonyL]

Just to keep tabs on the argument: we've got NASCAR haters, Laguna haters, satin black haters, sponsor/decal haters, Hunkins haters, PHR haters, girl-in-magazine haters, and print magazine haters. Lotta hatin' going on. Does that about cover it?


I'm not a girl-in-magazine hater. Im a coverage spent on girls that could have gone to the cars "hater" if you will. I want more in depth coverage of the cars at the show, not the attendees. That's all I was saying. I mean, it was the Year One event. One of, if not THE premier "pro-touring" get togethers out there. Our chance to shine, a chance for the home team to get some ink. And instead there was pictures of girls. It was disappointing to me.

[Damn True]

For the rest of you who didn't go to Catholic school, that's Latin for "proof of a feeling of shame."

Don't be ridiculous.

No it isnt.

Thanks for assisting in proving my point.

[SaturnVUEguy]

Listen, I'm not trying to say Nascar is the best thing going, but you're not making a consistant argument. Unregulated group B was too fast? What do you think would become of any unregulated series? Without a strict rulebook, all racers from soapbox derby to F1 eventually slide toward faster and more costly, its what racers do. Nascar is obviously biased toward very even cars and drivers making the difference, F1 is the opposite with the cars being more important. If the WRC cars ran at Nascar speeds and wheel to wheel, you can bet their rules would take body shape and aero into account as much as Nascar.

Take your pick, there is room for both. Don't however, make the mistake of thinking that Nascar is low tech, or dumb. The fast end of any ultra competitive field is very developed. Low tech looking, doesnt mean low tech.

And Nascar isn't just a southern thing anymore, well over half the races are outside the south. Are you really knocking them for not being international? By that type of standard, F1 and WRC aren't really international either, if I'm not mistaken all the teams are based in just a couple of european countries.Like I've said, I'm too young to have watched the Group B cars, or least remember it. Thats just what I've gathered over time from the internet.

I never once said NASCAR is low tech or dumb. I know I wouldn't be able to build a car to the standards they have without A TON of help. WRC car teams...Subaru in Japan, Citroen in France, Skoda in the Czech Republic, Mitsubishi from Japan, Ford is an American company but the WRC cars are based out of Europe though I'm not exactly sure where, and I think even Suzuki is in it now too, also from Japan. Toyota even used to run the WRC, but dropped out after 1998(?)

I haven't seen any TV coverage of the series in a few years, and lately I've simply been too busy to keep up with it through the internet. Only time I ever get for this site is while at work, luckily its not blocked like almost everythign else is.

My arguement is that the WRC is a worldwide event, each rally is in a different country, on a weekly basis. NASCAR is strictly run in the US. WRC has more followers than NASCAR does worldwide, but yes, NASCAR is FAR more popular here in the US. I can't deny that. I said I like the fact the WRC cars are based on a production model, rather than being the cookie cutter COT. Sure the COT has many advantages, but I want to see real (production based) cars racing. I also don't like the "drive fast turn left" stigma around NASCAR. I know they run road courses too, but how often do you see a WRC event on an oval?

[Johnny Hunkins]

We do find many feature cars at shows. Those cars are treated in-depth outside the confines of event coverage. I'm of the mind that event coverage is largely a waste of time for the very reason you hate it: it doesn't allow "in-depth," unless you pretty much short-change everything else going on. "Event coverage" and "in-depth" are pretty much opposites of each other from an editorial standpoint. (Unless you're voting for an entire issue given over to one event).

If you think about it a little, you'll see what I mean.

When I roll up to a car at a show, there are two scenarios: the owner's with his car, or he's not with his car.

When the guy's not there, I deduce as much as I can from looking at the car. If a good-looking woman is nearby, I will 'occasionally' have her pose too. I think that's the part you hate, but it does get a lot of guys reading about something that happened months ago that they weren't there for.

Car shows are lousy places to get detailed information on cars, because you can only be in one place at one time. I can't make it any plainer than to say: event coverage is not the place for in-depth information on cars.

[twosaturns]

Project Talladega is not a modern NASCAR racer. It is a visual tribute to a style of car built over 30 years ago. If you don't like today's NASCAR racing, or the COT, I hope it does not color your opinion of the PHR project car. I'll try to be understanding, however, if you can't divorce the two ideas from each other.

As for Strope's awesome '69 Charger, we were not allowed to shoot it. It was a Hot Rod exclusive, and appeared in that magazine. Don't get the idea that it was some kind of budget build like the Laguna. The Charger build cost crowded $200,000.

Other than the orange graphics, Project Talladega is identical in spirit to the Trans Am Nova that Chris Gray rendered in the Dreamcar Of The Month page. (It was the inspiration for this project--which lends itself to a NASCAR-oriented theme.) Did you guys like that one, but still hate the Laguna?

Just to keep tabs on the argument: we've got NASCAR haters, Laguna haters, satin black haters, sponsor/decal haters, Hunkins haters, PHR haters, girl-in-magazine haters, and print magazine haters. Lotta hatin' going on. Does that about cover it?

If you like Project Talladega, then thanks. I appreciate it.

And how 'bout those Olympics!

just sitting back watching, but I thought I'd comment:
the laguna 3rd gens are some of my favorite cars (all the 3rd gen GM A bodies actually).
girls are fine in car mags until it gets overdone (the ricer crowd REALLY overdoes it).
I like NASCAR, and I think the CoT looks a lot better than the previous one.

I would suggest, however, a hybrid laguna of sorts; the '73 had the best taillights, and the '75/'76 had the best nose. I prefer the larger '73 side windows also.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Here's a site for translating Latin:
http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=English&to=Latin

I guess they don't know what they're doing either...

I agree with twosaturns about the taillights, nose, and side windows. However, putting all those elements on the same car would cost more than the car is worth. I couldn't tell you how many times we talked about doing just that.

[Young Gun]

Argumentum ad verecundiam

he himself said it?

[Johnny Hunkins]

Yep. It's Latin. Therefore, it's unassailable. I'm sure there's a Latin saying for that too.

[stricker76]

Hey, how come i can't vote? I love the project. not crazy about the color or graphics or nascar in general, but i still love the project. Glad to finally see something different. I am sick of opening a magazine and seeing a few red camaros, a 70-72 chevelle and maybe a nova just to be different. I don't care if its a laguna (my first choice), a vega, a C10, or a damn chevette.....just something different.

[Damn True]

Without digging out the logic and philosophy textbooks (stored since er......a long time ago) a quick google returns:


An appeal to authority or argument by authority is a type of argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument) in logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic) called a fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy). It bases the truth value of an assertion on the authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authority), knowledge, expertise, or position of the person asserting it. It is also known as argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin): argument to respect) or ipse dixit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsedixitism) (Latin: he himself said it). It is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_knowledge), but a fallacy in regard to logic, because the validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source. The corresponding reverse case would be an ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) attack: to imply that the claim is false because the asserter lacks authority or is otherwise objectionable in some way.

with footnote

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html





I think the mag improved by leaps and bounds over the last 2-3 years. If the page count and expensive binding indicate anything your circulation and advertising reflect that. I hope that trend continues.

Like Bill, I too hope to see continued coverage of PT type cars. IMO, low buck street/strip has a home at Car Craft.

[shortrack]

Mr Hunkins

Obviously I think the Laguna project is a great idea!!!......a 76 Monte would have been a great choice too.

A few non car shots of an event is cool in my book......gives me a feel for the event

WRC is cool......they certainly hang it out.....but they also dont have a single carb 358 making 850 HP that revs to 9500rpm.

[Johnny Hunkins]

The poll is closed? Right when I start arguing my point, and the tide starts turning, it's closing time at the bar.

I also didn't defend the interior of the car, which I'd like to keep fairly stock. The reason is twofold: I want to transport my family for longer trips (hence the highway hauler theme), and we already have two track-prepped project cars (both Camaros) and a third (a Mustang) on the boil.

As for any kind of track work, the 'guna will probably hit the drag strip a few times. It hasn't been decided if we're doing handling tests yet. The tires--Nitto Drag Radials all around--will account for 95% of the handling improvement anyway.

The main objective: I want to turn heads with this car on the highway. I want to see wrecks piling up in my rearview mirror.

[TonyL]

Car shows are lousy places to get detailed information on cars, because you can only be in one place at one time. I can't make it any plainer than to say: event coverage is not the place for in-depth information on cars.

Agreed. I'm just looking for more car shots. Pictures of things most people overlook. Custom touches or resourceful solutions that people came up with. Things you can see, but have to look for. That type of stuff.

[Larry Callahan]

Wow, this thread sure got off track from it's original intention. :pat:

[Nine Ball]

Fun thread.

I think Laguna's are okay. I've never been sold on the entire "dare to be different" idea though. I grew up in the 70's, and cars from that era that I consider undesirable today, were still undesirable by me back then too. There is a reason some cars are more popular and desirable than others.

I guess I'm the type that can look at the more popular GM/Mopar/Ford musclecars all day long and not get bored. I've yet to see an oddball car that made me go "WOW! I gotta build one!" Even some that were built top-quality with killer parts don't sway my desire gauge much.

As for low-buck builds, I also agree that Car Craft is where that stuff belongs. I prefer looking at awesome big-dollar builds, especially those built to perform well. Whether that be drag, roadrace, or pro-touring stuff. No powderpuff rotating pedestal crap for me, but that also goes for stuff that is too budget-bomber also.

Tony

[JEFFTATE]

I like Project Talladega.
I like everything they've been doing in PHR.
( The PT cars , the girls , the coverage )
All is good .

[Steve1968LS2]

The poll is closed? Right when I start arguing my point, and the tide starts turning, it's closing time at the bar.



The person who started the poll set the length at 7 days.. so nobody "closed" it.

However, with my demi-god moderator powers I reset the clock to 90 days, so that voting may continue with wreckless abandon.

:)

Personally I think going NASCAR tribute with the car was the only logical move. It doesn't pay off to dump a ton of money into a '75 Laguna. This should be cheap and fun.

And we're all about fun, right? I also like the red more than the black and I would go with a more ghosted on (ie, lower key) graphics.

In any event, people can now vote again.

[Johnny Hunkins]

Yeah. What he said.

[Bow Tie 67]

IMO we could do with about 30-40% LESS "Engine Masters" content as well.

BINGO!

[JEFFTATE]

Wow, this thread sure got off track from it's original intention. :pat:

You're right Larry.
This thread is supposed to be about Project Talledega.
Not a critique of PHR or NASCAR.

We could start another thread for these subjects if need be .

[TonyL]

What? I apologized for the threadjack! LOL. The car is a NASCAR themed PHR project car. Its not outside the realm of reason that the thread include discussion on all those topics. (as for latin, however..)

People are talking about the car, the mag, and nascar, which is the point of a build like this. To get people thinking, and talking about their passions. It's a rolling conversation piece. Which, from the sound of it, is exactly what Johnny wanted.

It seems to be working.

[JEFFTATE]

ok sorry ..................

[TonyL]

I was just kiddin' ya Jeff!

After looking at the article on the car over and over again, the only thing that really puts me off about it is the wheels. They're the deal breaker to me. I've seen them on too many other "poser" nascar trucks and cars, I guess, to take them seriously.

It'll be interesting to see how they handle it. the longer studs, and spray on lettering might be what's missing from the cars I've seen. I find myself wondering what a set of custom 3 piece 18 or 20 inch wheels cut to invoke that nascar wheel look, and powdercoated black would look like. low profile tires with yellow lettering on them...

[barraza]

I never once said NASCAR is low tech or dumb. I know I wouldn't be able to build a car to the standards they have without A TON of help.

And about 20 million dollars


WRC car teams...Subaru in Japan, Citroen in France, Skoda in the Czech Republic, Mitsubishi from Japan, Ford is an American company but the WRC cars are based out of Europe though I'm not exactly sure where, and I think even Suzuki is in it now too, also from Japan. Toyota even used to run the WRC, but dropped out after 1998(?)
Japan and few European countries hardly encompass the "world"




My arguement is that the WRC is a worldwide event, each rally is in a different country, on a weekly basis. NASCAR is strictly run in the US.
Being "worldwide" doesn't make the racing any better


WRC has more followers than NASCAR does worldwide,
Care to back that up with some real facts? No, dont bother, the only numbers you will find are FISA's B.S. numbers they have been spouting forever. If you believe them, more people watch their series than exist on the planet.

Look, like I said before, the WRC is good racing, but why hate on nascar because it's not "production based" enough for you? There are lots of production based series, pick one and be a fan without cutting down nascar for being too American.

[JV69z/28]

I was just kiddin' ya Jeff!

After looking at the article on the car over and over again, the only thing that really puts me off about it is the wheels. They're the deal breaker to me. I've seen them on too many other "poser" nascar trucks and cars, I guess, to take them seriously.

It'll be interesting to see how they handle it. the longer studs, and spray on lettering might be what's missing from the cars I've seen. I find myself wondering what a set of custom 3 piece 18 or 20 inch wheels cut to invoke that nascar wheel look, and powdercoated black would look like. low profile tires with yellow lettering on them...

:twothumbs Tony you are dead on! I'm surprised more people haven't protested the 15" wheel/tire combo also - especially on this forum. I just can't see using 15s in this day an age. If PHR absolutely has to have those wheels at least consider the 17x9 version Cragar makes with some 17" 50 series Nittos. I would be willing to bet we could find off the shelf wheels available in custom backspacing to fit the look that could be powder coated. I think Centerline makes an eight windowed covered lug wheel that if it was powder coated black would loose the center cap detail enough to work. By todays standards they are inexpensive. There has to others that I just can't think of now. Johnny please at least photoshop some "big" wheels.

[buickfunnycar.com]

I think the Laguna bodystyle would be bitching if done right...:naughty:

PS:Hate SAMECAR,refuse to watch it except for Infineon....or Sears Point for you old-timers.:box2:

[vintageracer]

Hey PHR, how about following up the 75 Laguna build with a 1981 Chrysler Imperial 2 door coupe with a crate hemi engine to continue moving the hobby away from 69 Camaro's?

The Imperial is a much better looking car and they are both worth about the same money!

[Johnny Hunkins]

I liked Buddy Arrington's Imperial. Marty Robbins also drove a real nice looking one. They're actually better looking than the Laguna, but they never won anything.

Those were the very last Mopars in NASCAR before the current Chargers came back.

[twosaturns]

I liked Buddy Arrington's Imperial. Marty Robbins also drove a real nice looking one. They're actually better looking than the Laguna, but they never won anything.

Those were the very last Mopars in NASCAR before the current Chargers came back.
you mean the intrepid, then the current charger, right?:enguard:

[Johnny Hunkins]

Oh, is that what it was? I thought it was a melted lump of crap.

[Dragonsnake]

Ok.Heres my ride.Its got 295x50x15 all around.Gimme your opinions:enguard:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/0246-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/1219084343_resized-1.jpg

[shortrack]

cool - how do you like the Cooper Cobra's????

[stricker76]

You already know my opinion of your car.......:headbang: :headbang:
I just had to use this one......:bananna2:

[Johnny Hunkins]

I saw the in-car video of this caul hauling ass on a road course once. I think it's bitchin, and that Mad Max would probably run away and hide from it, balled-up in a corner cryin' for his momma.

Did you fill in the quarter windows, or is that Photoshopped? We're riveting brushed aluminum block-off plates over our opera windows.

Oh, and the bumper looks cool too. We're narrowing our bumper, sucking it up to the body, and painting it body color too.

[Tony_SS]

Dragonsnake, anymore pics?

[Steve1968LS2]

Much better with the quarter windows covered up.. very cool!

[JEFFTATE]

Good lookin car !
Looks like it has a purpose.

[Scott Parkhurst]

I love the Laguna idea. It's something Hunkins and I discussed when I was there oh-so-long ago. Done correctly, you get a cool car that can perform, and it won't be like anyone elses.

I'm confident Johnny will get it done right, and it'll inspire others with these 'forgotten' cars.

I'd also like to see a Dodge Mirada done in this style, but I might have to build it myself to see it.

~SP~

[Johnny Hunkins]

The Mirada would look cool, but check out the Imperial first.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/04imperial-1.jpg


Here's a link to a page containing plenty of Imperial NASCAR racecars from '81 - 83.
http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1981/Buddy/index.htm

[TonyL]

that reminds me of the cyclone chop I did.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Norm Peterson]

Nascar sucks?? Why is it that when anyone doesn't like something, they think that everyone else that does like it is wrong. Face reality, Nascar is popular because people watch, lots and lots of people. Money comes from TV ratings, the WRC is interesting but not on the same planet in popularity.
It's not a matter of who likes it or not, or about fans being right or wrong. It's more a matter of NASCAR straying away from its roots and knowledgeable longer term fans realizing it. Not really a sport any more, just another big entertainment business. "Competition" cautions - gimme a break. PLEASE!!! Dare I draw a parallel to the case involving the 9 y/o who was recently declared "too good" to play ball in his league (so the also-rans could look better)?

Safety aspects aside, the COT can be freely translated as not being about the cars any more. Technically interesting for some, but otherwise badge engineering at its finest, or maybe we're just getting closer to a spec silhouette series that doesn't even need to maintain ties to actual production car manufacturers any more.

Or for the most part the drivers either, at least beyond name recognition. On the one hand, NASCAR fines drivers for mild verbal mis-steps publicly broadcast but on the other hand wants them to be available for comment before they've had a chance to unwind a bit. Politically correct (i.e. watered-down) commentary is worse than a useless waste of time to listen to. Pure ear pablum.


Norm

[Damn True]

The COT is a good race car. It's just not a stock car. Make no mistake, NASCAR is a spec series now.

[Norm Peterson]

Project Talladega is not a modern NASCAR racer. It is a visual tribute to a style of car built over 30 years ago.
I do hope that you infuse a bit of other than straight line performance into it. The cars that it is intended to emulate did run a couple of road courses a year, and while I am not saying it needs to be more of a Trans-Am racer, the turns-both-ways-with-equal-composure really is something you want in a street driven car. Externally, nobody would never know. And it would be a letdown for it to end up being a sheep in wolf's clothing. Make it an 'honest' car.


Norm
(wading through this thing slowly)

[Norm Peterson]

The COT is a good race car. It's just not a stock car. Make no mistake, NASCAR is a spec series now.
I know, just that it's another step away from the roots. Sure, it does some things better, other things less so until/unless they tweak the tire package a bit and exterminate a couple of bugs. Swhiteh3 is in a better position to answer that sort of thing.

FWIW, I like the idea of a "Project Laguna" name better for this project than something that's strongly linked to Ford and from slightly further back. It doesn't have to be a track rat, but it ought to be able to hold its own when the road turns crooked against, say, an equally well-driven stock GT Mustang (there not being many stick axle cars to choose from for direct comparison).


Norm

[Dragonsnake]

cool - how do you like the Cooper Cobra's????

I think they are good,but i havent tried other tires.There arent a sea of brands to choose from anymore.I had 265x50 before in front,and the tread were slipping from the cord after several laps.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/0013-1.jpg

The 295 are better.But they are r rated.Thats the reason i may be switching to 17 inch tires.275x40 in front and 315x35 rear.But then the whole look of the car will turn another direction.If 17 inch wheels,i will use wintage wheels in the minelite type.

Hunkins:The quarter window are welded shut .butt to butt.

And thanks everyone for the cool answers :naughty: .I had a feeling there would be more no than yes :cheers: .

More pics..







https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/2008_05300046-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/ACR20juni0820610-1.jpg
And some videos.

http://www.ranablad.no/video/article3580579.ece

Heres one with a tire explosion.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8Farb9wV92Y

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=euuMFnZ164k.

And some photos of nascar Lagunas.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/1975nascar4-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/1975nascar3-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/28_foyt_19751-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/arrellWaltrip88LagunaFront1977v2-1.jpg



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/ison88DigardChevelleMalibu1973vi-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/JDMcDuffie70LagunaS3vi2-1.jpg


And a Monte Carlo.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DaveMarcis2Cam2MonteCarlo1976vi1-1.jpg

The chevelle and Laguna from 73-77 have better handling than most of the american sedans and have big wheel wells.And they are cheap too.

[dannyuscg]

that reminds me of the cyclone chop I did.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Holly SNIKES ! Where can I see more of this car ?

Thanks, Danny

[TonyL]

in my imagination. LOL. It's a photoshop job I did for fun a while back.

[TonyL]

Here's what it really looked like:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[shortrack]

Dragon :
Man your hung out!!.....if you ever got out in front you'd win because people would be scared chitless to try and pass you LOL!!.......you should try some 15" slicks for that kind of abuse on track day....they're really no more expensive than Cobras

hey great shots of the Lagunas and Monte's, awesome:headbang:

[69rs]

The Laguna project is ok. PHR is a great mag. And I love the girls in it.....well, one of 'em is my LittleBit! Thanks, Johnny!

[novaderrik]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DaveMarcis2Cam2MonteCarlo1976vi1-1.jpg

thanks to whoever for posting this pic..

i LOOOVE me the mid 70's Monte Carlos. in fact, i'm thinking of going this way with my 74 Monte that looks like a good, solid car from 20 feet away but really needs a ton of work to make it nice.
so what i'm gonna do is take out the bumper shocks and bolt the bumpers directly to the frame- which will clean up the "big bumper" thing that has always been the only thing i hate about these cars and allow me to get id of the 3 bumper fillers on my car that ren't broken. i might even section the bumpers to tuck them in tight to the body- just like i see in all the old NASCAR pics. the last final thing i'm gonna do is drop it and put a set of black 15X8 chevy truck rally wheels on it-they look kinda old school NASCAR to me and i have them already- which will either require swapping in some 2wd pickup/Caprice rotors or drilling the rims to the small bolt pattern.
by the way, the pickup brakes are not a direct swap, as was erroneously stated in the magazine article about the car- the A bodies used an 11" rotor, and the pickups and Caprices with the big brakes used a 12" rotor, but i think 77-96 Caprice spindles are a direct swap, so it isn't an impossible swap.

[Tony_SS]

^ I'd love to see one of those land yacht 73-77 Monte's done up in a Nascar/Street Fighter concept build.

[BLT2DRIVE]

Hey, Why not get those fullcar decals like we see all over L A ? (Seista la loco 107.9) You could go retro Mountain Dew with PHR logos tied in, then in a couple of months of running it around and showing it, send it back and they can change out the whole body decals to Wrangler or what ever. It takes a day to put 'em on," paint, not really an issue now."

[barraza]

It's not a matter of who likes it or not, or about fans being right or wrong. It's more a matter of NASCAR straying away from its roots and knowledgeable longer term fans realizing it. Not really a sport any more, just another big entertainment business. ..........
Norm
I'm not quite as old as you Norm, but I do remember going to see Talladega when they were still moving the dirt. Yes, Nascar has strayed from it's roots, what hasn't over the last fifty years? Which roots do you want? On the beach with totally stock junk? The 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's? Most people tend to want what they came into the sport liking. I like the 70's and 80's cars, but I fully realize that it would be impossible to run under those rules. The COT is a compromise, ask a hundred people, and you will get a hundred answers.

And yes, its entertainment, there is no putting that genie back in the bottle either. If it weren't for the corporate big dollars, there would be no TV. It would be like the seventies, getting race results from the old newspaper autoweek.

[bigmac70]

I agree with you Tony, just because it's out of the norm does not make it cool. A suede mid 70s' GM junk on 15 inch rims, wasn't a suede paint job "cool" on rat rods like 3 years ago? As for Hunkins, he has been kind of a creepster for a few years. My suspicions were justified when several forum members pointed that out early in the thread. My wife and I personally witnessed this at the 2006 Year One event while standing in line for the charity Panoz rides. I noticed Hunkins in line and thought I would mention I was a reader and tried to make small talk about his late model Mustang. He absolutely snubbed us because he was tripping over himself to photograph some seventeen year old girl. David at HR was always more friendly on any of the Power Tours we have been on. Hunkins comment about the median age of the recent girl photos is a new tactic because I have all the older issues and they were usually like teenagers. Girls and cars are cool but not in the way PHR displays them. Yes, slightly negative on PHR but I don't post much and obviously people have their own opinion. Anybody notice that when a reader has a suggestion or complaint that they are usually met with a jackass response? And yes, I won't be renewing my subscription...David Mc

[Scott Parkhurst]

Dude- you've got some balls posting about someone you don't even know like that. If John is taking pictures, it's because he's WORKING and sometimes you have to do your job.

I had the pleasure of working with Johnny for years and he is absolutely dedicated to his job and his family, and I proudly call him a friend.

If you want to badmouth someone, please share more than a passing experience with them as your firsthand knowledge of their character, okay?

Until then, please stfu.

[bigmac70]

Scott, thanks for your insight. My opinion is just that and obviously there are several others that feel the same way I do about the girl photos. Creepy is creepy and a broad geographic area of forum users thought that. As far as our experience with meeting Hunkins; it was as described and maybe everybody has a bad day. You have no right telling me to shut the f@%k up when there were countless other negative responses starting about 8 pages earlier. But since you said please...

[Norm Peterson]

↑↑↑↑↑ . . . Now I remember why I don't wander off the technical forums much . . . .



I'm not quite as old as you Norm, but I do remember going to see Talladega when they were still moving the dirt. Yes, Nascar has strayed from it's roots, what hasn't over the last fifty years? Which roots do you want? On the beach with totally stock junk? The 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's? Most people tend to want what they came into the sport liking. I like the 70's and 80's cars, but I fully realize that it would be impossible to run under those rules. The COT is a compromise, ask a hundred people, and you will get a hundred answers.

And yes, its entertainment, there is no putting that genie back in the bottle either. If it weren't for the corporate big dollars, there would be no TV. It would be like the seventies, getting race results from the old newspaper autoweek.
Geez, where to begin . . .

Cars that bear closer resemblance even if only in silhouette to what I can actually buy at whatever make whose dealership I choose to shop at. That's what's neat about 60's - 70's NASCAR and the buildup of the topic car in this thread, that you can actually build up a street-driven car that pretty closely emulates the race cars of its era and build in as much of the performance as you care to - perhaps even exceeding that of the original racer with what we now have available - and still be able to register/insure/drive it.

A range of track layouts that rewards a wide range of driver adaptability. A couple more road races, and a couple of dirt events for starters. Hey, these guys seem to do OK at Tony Stewart's place. Why not for points? I'd like to see greater asymmetry to the ovals/tri-ovals. Let the drivers shift at Pocono. If it drives a little like a road course, let 'em drive it that way.

I suppose that it has to be a good part entertainment to succeed. But when the "entertainment" is targeted toward those who only go for that and overshadows all else combined it starts losing relevance.


Norm

[barraza]

↑↑↑↑↑ . . . Now I remember why I don't wander off the technical forums much . . . .



Geez, where to begin . . .

Cars that bear closer resemblance even if only in silhouette to what I can actually buy at whatever make whose dealership I choose to shop at. That's what's neat about 60's - 70's NASCAR and the buildup of the topic car in this thread, that you can actually build up a street-driven car that pretty closely emulates the race cars of its era and build in as much of the performance as you care to - perhaps even exceeding that of the original racer with what we now have available - and still be able to register/insure/drive it.

A range of track layouts that rewards a wide range of driver adaptability. A couple more road races, and a couple of dirt events for starters. Hey, these guys seem to do OK at Tony Stewart's place. Why not for points? I'd like to see greater asymmetry to the ovals/tri-ovals. Let the drivers shift at Pocono. If it drives a little like a road course, let 'em drive it that way.

I suppose that it has to be a good part entertainment to succeed. But when the "entertainment" is targeted toward those who only go for that overshadows all else combined it starts losing relevance.


Norm


Since when did racing have to have "relevance" ? It is sport and competition, it doesn't have to be relevant to anything. If you mean personal relavence, well thats personal isn't it. Why should your relevance be any more important than others?

Aerodynamics makes or breaks racecars nowdays, we can't go back to the old days, wishing it won't make it so. It is simply not possible at the speeds the cars have. The cars haven't looked really stockish for a long time, it didn't start with the COT.

Dirt??? I love dirt track racing, sprint cars are some of the best racing anywhere, but Nascar sure doesnt belong there. And besides, what would be relevant about dirt?

Why do I get into these arguements? I like just about all racing with wheels and some without, including everything mentioned in this thread and everything in between from tractors to F1. The real answer is who cares, watch it if you like, if not - don't. There is plenty of racing available at the touch of a button, and I'm sure you remember when there wasn't. Or start your own series, if you are right, everyone will flock to it and you'll be worth billions.

[stricker76]

mid 70s' GM junk.............people have their own opinion.

I must say that i agree with Scott on this one.


please stfu.

[Johnny Hunkins]

I'm sorry I don't remember you bigmac70, and I'm sorry I didn't take the time out to talk to you. What kind of car were you driving at Year One?

I was there with my 70-year-old dad at Year One. He has a heart condition, I was tired, and I was a bit preoccupied.

You're right about DF. He can be fun to hang out with when he's in the mood.

[novaderrik]

Aerodynamics makes or breaks racecars nowdays, we can't go back to the old days, wishing it won't make it so. It is simply not possible at the speeds the cars have. The cars haven't looked really stockish for a long time, it didn't start with the COT.

Dirt??? I love dirt track racing, sprint cars are some of the best racing anywhere, but Nascar sure doesnt belong there. And besides, what would be relevant about dirt?


actually, the cars are going about the same speeds now that they did 30 years ago, but the race cars of today are so slick and evenly matched that a race at a track bigger than Bristol or Martinsville looks like an IROC race with cars just following each other for 500 miles. keep the same power and chassis and put a body with the stock aero package like you can get at any dealer- which the big 3 car companies want to do- and it will start to look more like "stock car" racing again, and make it even more "stock" than some of the higher "stock car" classes you can see at any local track on a friday or saturday night.
as to the relevance of dirt tracks- i drive on about 5 miles of gravel roads every day going to and from work, and seeing the big dogs on a 3/8 mile dirt oval in cars that look like something i might see in my day to day travels would better reflect my day to day experiences and take NASCAR back to it's roots.

[Dragonsnake]

I'm sorry I don't remember you bigmac70, and I'm sorry I didn't take the time out to talk to you. What kind of car were you driving at Year One?

I was there with my 70-year-old dad at Year One. He has a heart condition, I was tired, and I was a bit preoccupied.

You're right about DF. He can be fun to hang out with when he's in the mood.

Im curious too,to what kind of car he has.But with 2 posts here,he is probably safe there with a car that everybody can make cool.

And DF has his own site.carjunkietv.com.

[barraza]

actually, the cars are going about the same speeds now that they did 30 years ago, but the race cars of today are so slick and evenly matched that a race at a track bigger than Bristol or Martinsville looks like an IROC race with cars just following each other for 500 miles. keep the same power and chassis and put a body with the stock aero package like you can get at any dealer- which the big 3 car companies want to do- and it will start to look more like "stock car" racing again, and make it even more "stock" than some of the higher "stock car" classes you can see at any local track on a friday or saturday night.
as to the relevance of dirt tracks- i drive on about 5 miles of gravel roads every day going to and from work, and seeing the big dogs on a 3/8 mile dirt oval in cars that look like something i might see in my day to day travels would better reflect my day to day experiences and take NASCAR back to it's roots.

Why the hell should Nascar reflect your day to day gravel road experiences?? Do they need stoplights also?

30 years ago, you were lucky if a half a dozen cars finished on the lead lap. The cars looked great, but the racing sucked. In the 70's, I remember the stands half full at Talladega, and people streaming out with 10 or 20 laps to go because there was only a couple of cars on the lead lap, and it was obvious who would win.

Stop taking the word "stock" literally. They havent been stock since the early fifties, and it is not possible to race "stock " cars at nearly 200 miles per hour and have good and safe competition. The manufacturers are not going to make a car suitable for racing, don't kid yourself and think racing is that important to them, its just business. Hell last time I checked, most dont even make a vehicle with the right wheels driving the car. Most manufacturers are more concerned with keeping their doors open than racecars.

If you look at history, the manufacturers have gone into and out of racing as their industry had ups and downs. The engine supply takes care of itself, but Nascar has always been dependant on the manufacturers for bodies, no decent bodies, no racing. Look at how long Mopar was gone. The COT is actually a shrewd move by Nascar that will take the unpredictability of the manufacturers out of the equation. Manufacturers are involved, but not subject to the designs of the side of their house that has to sell a million of some type of car.

Does the COT go too far? Maybe, but they will judge that by all fans, not just gearheads like us on this site.

Call it what you want, but also call it the most successful racing series in the country. Most of the complainers seem to forget that there are series exactly like what they want that exist now, and have no following because they are dull. Stock cars? The SCCA is full of stock classes, and they can hardly give away a ticket. It's ecomomics, the money follows the success, and popularity. Not the other way around.

[Norm Peterson]

Since when did racing have to have "relevance" ? It is sport and competition, it doesn't have to be relevant to anything.
Everything that nova posted. Either let the racing drive vehicle design - aero would seem to be a technical feature of current consumer interest - or quit calling them "Chevrolet/Ford/Dodge/Toyota" entirely as there is little else common between the race cars and the nameplate they claim to represent (cylinder bore spacing?).

I'll add the suggestion that from within the membership of automotive fora is a bigger proportion of people who watch auto racing from more of a participation point of view than from just sitting there watching somebody else. With that in mind, pure spectators might as well go see "Days of Thunder" and let NASCAR collect a licensing fee off each theater ticket and video/DVD sold. My opinion.

It's not so different from enjoying watching the "stick and ball" sports, where you can go grab whatever equipment is available, round up a bunch of folks, and have at it. You probably aren't going to be playing at a level worth televising or selling tickets for people to watch, but your understanding is going to be different from that of most who never play(ed) at all. (FWIW, I still don't like the idea of the AL's use of a DH; that's mostly another case of the "powers that be" tinkering with things to cater to the less knowledgeable portion of their fan base).

No, NASCAR doesn't need to make dirt a big part of their top programs. But there is no reason to exclude it entirely, particularly since (as I currently understand, anyway) local dirt tracks are generally doing better than their paved counterparts.


Norm

[barraza]

Everything that nova posted. Either let the racing drive vehicle design - aero would seem to be a technical feature of current consumer interest - or quit calling them "Chevrolet/Ford/Dodge/Toyota" entirely as there is little else common between the race cars and the nameplate they claim to represent (cylinder bore spacing?).
Racing driving design is a good idea, but they went down slightly different paths years ago and race cars are now so fast that their technology is not readily transferable. Not much to transfered from a 17,000 rpm F1 engine or their aerodynamics, not to mention the Nascar bodies that sit on the chassis sideways, or the previous generation cars that were banana shaped when looked at from above. I dont really care what they call them, but the manufacturers agreed to the rules, and they pay the bills , so call them whatever. Step up and develop your own engine and maybe they will add a Norm:)


I'll add the suggestion that from within the membership of automotive fora is a bigger proportion of people who watch auto racing from more of a participation point of view than from just sitting there watching somebody else. .....

Norm
One of my points exactly,and one of the main differences between racing and other sports. My impression is that some around here are surely gears heads, but that doesn't mean squat when it comes to racing. Anyone that has never tried to run at the front of a competitive field doesn't have a clue what it takes from an effort and finance perspective. It's real easy to sit back and "shoulda, woulda, coulda", but real life doesn't work that way. Just last week I saw an appropriate t shirt that said "I saw it on TV - I think I can do it" above a picture of a skateboarder taking a header. Whats that other saying, "The difference between competitive wheel to wheel racing and driving fast is as wide as the gulf between making love to a model and jerking off to her picture"

[novaderrik]

Why the hell should Nascar reflect your day to day gravel road experiences?? Do they need stoplights also?
yeah, sure- why not. they already throw caution flags when the wrong person is busting out too far ahead of the designated winner of the week- you know, when they see a hot dog wrapper flutter onto the back stretch- so why not throw random traffic lights into it, as well.

as to the rest of it- you must have missed the part where i said to keep the current chassis (for safety) and powerplnats and wrap stock sheetmetal and aero devices around it. the big three American companies want to do just that so they can highlight the Mustang, Camaro, and Challengers that they all have brought (or will bring shortly) to market. i don't know if Toyota has a car that fits in that mold, so i don't know what the odds are of it happening, but it would be cool.
you say the stands at Talledega were half empty 30 years ago- well, in the races i've seen this year, there have been big chunks of the stands with nobody in them. 5 years ago, you couldn't get NASCAR tickets for any of the races- now, there are lots of empty seats. eventually, all the casual fans will wander onto whatever is new and different and the car guys will get NASCAR back- so they might as well try to cater to us. we did, after all, keep it going so it could explode into the monstrosity that it is today.
so, anyways, to get back into the spirit of this thread- i tried to re-drill one of my 15X8 pickup ralleys to the 5X4.75 pattern to see how it would look on my Monte- and other than gettign the bolt pattern a little offset from center, it looked pretty bitchin. i think i'll just switch over to rotors with the correct bolt pattern- anyone know of a GM application that used 11" brake rotors wth the 5X5 bolt pattern?

[Johnny Hunkins]

Project Talladega in some ways is a protest to the current NASCAR situation. It's a visual throwback to when racecars had street car bodies. I can't help but think when people see it, the current cars will seem even uglier in comparison.

[barraza]

yeah, sure- why not. they already throw caution flags when the wrong person is busting out too far ahead of the designated winner of the week- you know, when they see a hot dog wrapper flutter onto the back stretch- so why not throw random traffic lights into it, as well.

Pure BS. Prove it


as to the rest of it- you must have missed the part where i said to keep the current chassis (for safety) and powerplnats and wrap stock sheetmetal and aero devices around it.
Now you want stock sheetmetal AND aero devices? What the hell is that?


the big three American companies want to do just that so they can highlight the Mustang, Camaro, and Challengers that they all have brought (or will bring shortly) to market. i don't know if Toyota has a car that fits in that mold, so i don't know what the odds are of it happening, but it would be cool.
Cool and workable are sometimes very far apart, this is one of those times. Ever see a Challerger parked next to a mustang? How would you reconcile their size differences? Oh yeah, aero mods.


you say the stands at Talledega were half empty 30 years ago- well, in the races i've seen this year, there have been big chunks of the stands with nobody in them. 5 years ago, you couldn't get NASCAR tickets for any of the races- now, there are lots of empty seats.
In the old days, seats were empty because the competition sucked. Now travel and ticket prices and high def broadcasts probably have a little to do with it.


all the casual fans will wander onto whatever is new and different and the car guys will get NASCAR back- so they might as well try to cater to us. we did, after all, keep it going so it could explode into the monstrosity that it is today.

What a stunning grasp of economics.

[novaderrik]

Now you want stock sheetmetal AND aero devices? What the hell is that?



i said stock sheetmetal and aero devices- meaning, the aero package you get when you get a car at the dealer. if GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota want to have a stock car that can compete in NASCAR, then they could come out with a street version that is almost identical to the race cars that capable of going 200mph- like way back in the mid 60's when Ford and Chevy came out with the fast back cars, the late 60's/early 70's when Mopar came out with the winged cars, the mid 70's when Chevy and Olds sold cars with sloped back noses, the late 70's when Chevy put the fastback rear window on Impalas, and in the 80's when Chevy and Pontiac put the sleek noses and fastback rear glass on the G bodies. the oems did that to give their cars an edge- and in each case, it worked beautifully. now it doesn't matter if what is being raced has any resemblance to what you see every day- the "stock" has been taken away.
remember when Ford discontinued the TBird and wanted to use the Taurus- the first cars they built became wings at 150mph due to the sloped trunklid. so NASCAR's answer was the essentially let them use the 1/4 panels and trunk from the Monte Carlo to allow Ford to compete. and then there's the way they moved the door pillar back to make the 4 door Taurs street car into a 2 door race car..that wasn't the beginning of the downhilll slide away from stock, but it sure gave it some momentum.
and you can honestly say you've never seen a yellow flag get thrown for no discernible reason beyond someone getting too much of a lead over the rest of the pack? when the race seems to be going good, and after the yellow gets thrown they either don't show what the caution was thrown for or they show one of the safety trucks picking a tearoff or hotdog wrapper off of turn 3. NASCAR does it to get their close finishes- or at the very least to get the more popular drivers back up with the leader(s) or keep them from getting lapped- which brings up the whole "lucky dog" thing where the first car a lap down gets to go back on the lead lap whenever the caution flag is thrown. what the hell is that all about?
if a team has their crap together and dominates everyone else, why should they be penalized by letting everyone else catch up with them? and if a team doesn't have their crap together and has a bad day, why should they be given a shot at winning? that aint competition- that's NASCAR's version of affirmative action.

[BLWN1]

Super Seca worked for me......

[barraza]

i said stock sheetmetal and aero devices- meaning, the aero package you get when you get a car at the dealer. if GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota want to have a stock car that can compete in NASCAR, then they could come out with a street version that is almost identical to the race cars that capable of going 200mph- like way back in the mid 60's when Ford and Chevy came out with the fast back cars, the late 60's/early 70's when Mopar came out with the winged cars, the mid 70's when Chevy and Olds sold cars with sloped back noses, the late 70's when Chevy put the fastback rear window on Impalas, and in the 80's when Chevy and Pontiac put the sleek noses and fastback rear glass on the G bodies. the oems did that to give their cars an edge- and in each case, it worked beautifully. now it doesn't matter if what is being raced has any resemblance to what you see every day- the "stock" has been taken away.
remember when Ford discontinued the TBird and wanted to use the Taurus- the first cars they built became wings at 150mph due to the sloped trunklid. so NASCAR's answer was the essentially let them use the 1/4 panels and trunk from the Monte Carlo to allow Ford to compete. and then there's the way they moved the door pillar back to make the 4 door Taurs street car into a 2 door race car..that wasn't the beginning of the downhilll slide away from stock, but it sure gave it some momentum.
and you can honestly say you've never seen a yellow flag get thrown for no discernible reason beyond someone getting too much of a lead over the rest of the pack? when the race seems to be going good, and after the yellow gets thrown they either don't show what the caution was thrown for or they show one of the safety trucks picking a tearoff or hotdog wrapper off of turn 3. NASCAR does it to get their close finishes- or at the very least to get the more popular drivers back up with the leader(s) or keep them from getting lapped- which brings up the whole "lucky dog" thing where the first car a lap down gets to go back on the lead lap whenever the caution flag is thrown. what the hell is that all about?
if a team has their crap together and dominates everyone else, why should they be penalized by letting everyone else catch up with them? and if a team doesn't have their crap together and has a bad day, why should they be given a shot at winning? that aint competition- that's NASCAR's verion of affirmative action.
I appreciate your viewpoint, but the fact is that aero packages are not seat of the pants anymore, and haven't been for years. The teams still spend incredible amounts of time and money in the wind tunnel just on the COT. Stock bodies are virtually uncontrollable from a spec standpoint. If they were absolutely stock, everyone would figure out which is best and every single car would be the same. You are assuming Nascar is a competition between manufacturers, thats wrong, it is a competition between race teams and their sponsors. An operation like Hendrick has nearly 600 employees, as do the other major teams. No manufacturer puts in that kind of money, or you would see chevy or ford on a quarter panel instead of the tiny letters they get. The fact is that the "pure stock" aspect has been gone for almost 50 years. It is simply not possible to turn back the clock. You have a pie in the sky image of a history that never was.

I love the old days also, some of my best racing memories are of sitting on the pit wall at Talladega during practice and listening to Neil Bonnet and Bobby Allison tell stories. My dad was good friends with the local short track owner and he got us pit passes for every race. Much as I loved that part, I also remember that most of the races were boring follow the leader affairs with no real racing.

I love that the magazine is doing a Laguna, but if you ever get up close to one of those 70's racecars, you will realize they weren't near stock either. If you put todays engineering into one of those cars, it would be a rocket.

Your yellow flag theories are a bunch of crap. Just because you personally didn't see what it was called for makes it a conspiracy, yeah right. It aint perfect, but it is no worse than umpires or referees in other sports that have to make instant decisions.

Your confusion over the "lucky dog" makes it obvious that you are not even a casual fan and just regurgitating "hate Nascar" talking points. If you get past the "image" and really learn about the cars and their technology, you may just come to think the best days of Nascar are now.

[Johnny Hunkins]

I think at the heart of the argument is that these new NASCAR racers are really boring cars from an aesthetic point of view. The variety of shapes we used to see was diverse, and the cars were beautiful.

The personalities of the drivers are fueling the interest in NASCAR. NASCAR is only two bad decisions away from being the WWE on wheels.

As a race fan, I still like NASCAR, but as a car enthusiast, I'm not as drawn to it as I was in the mid '80s.

[barraza]

I think at the heart of the argument is that these new NASCAR racers are really boring cars from an aesthetic point of view. The variety of shapes we used to see was diverse, and the cars were beautiful.

The personalities of the drivers are fueling the interest in NASCAR. NASCAR is only two bad decisions away from being the WWE on wheels.

As a race fan, I still like NASCAR, but as a car enthusiast, I'm not as drawn to it as I was in the mid '80s.
Johnny,
From an aesthetic point of view, no argument, the cars are not as interesting as they were 25 plus years ago. But, how about a story idea as part of the Laguna series on how the technology of the cars has eclipsed the diversity of the bodies. You're not likely to get any real secret info, but an article on the aero package of the Laguna vs the COT would be eye opening. Surely someone at a Nascar team could take a guess at the Laguna's drag and lift in race trim and possibly reveal some tricks from the old days.

[Johnny Hunkins]

The aerodynamic comparison would be interesting to me, and to a few people here, but it would be NASCAR overload for most readers. I think this project may already be doing that.

As much as I love Project Talladega, I am still approaching it with a lot of trepidation. Our readers are do-ers, not watchers. Add that to the fact that the '75 Laguna is pretty roundly despised, and there's a pretty big downside potential for the newsstand.

It's a good bet we'll have to counter the Laguna with a red '69 Camaro and an LS1--if my career even survives the ordeal.

[454bug]

It's a good bet we'll have to counter the Laguna with a red '69 Camaro and an LS1--if my career even survives the ordeal.

IT BETTER BE AN "LS7" OR DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME!!! :bsjerk:

Why you've taken this BEATING makes no sense... :injured:

Now I know what they mean when they warn our kids of being Cyber Bullies!! :hand:

WHERE IS RODNEY KING WHEN YOU NEED HIM THE MOST??? :usa:

[novaderrik]

Your yellow flag theories are a bunch of crap. Just because you personally didn't see what it was called for makes it a conspiracy, yeah right. It aint perfect, but it is no worse than umpires or referees in other sports that have to make instant decisions.

Your confusion over the "lucky dog" makes it obvious that you are not even a casual fan and just regurgitating "hate Nascar" talking points. If you get past the "image" and really learn about the cars and their technology, you may just come to think the best days of Nascar are now.
i don't have any "yellow flag theories"- it's what i've seen happening over the last 5 years or so. when the announcers can't figure out what a yellow was for and NASCAR won't say what a yellow was for- and they always seem to happen when someone is breaking away from the pack for too long, then it's the only logical conclusion. if it happened only once or twice a year, then maybe it's just one of those things- but every 50 laps or so just says they are up to something. they want to keep the racing tight to keep it artificially interesting for the home tv viewer- and if a team is better than everyone else, they are effectively penalized for being too good. if they want the teams to make more pit stops to even things out, then just give them all a 5 gallon fuel cell so they run out of gas just as their tires are getting warmed up.
and what is my "confusion" over the lucky dog thing? the first guy a lap down gets his lap back whenever a caution flies. the more yellow flags, the more people on the lead lap and the more excitement is created for the tv audience towards the end of the race.
what am i missing here?

[454bug]

You are definately either a casual or very YOUNG observer... The WHOLE intention for the "Lucky Dog" was for the safety of the drivers. If you happened to be a fan more than 10 years ago or so, you would have seen some REALLY bad wrecks involving drivers "racing" to the caution flag. At that time there were NO scoring transducers. The field wasn't "frozen". The drivers RACED to the start-finish line when a caution came out, many times right past (and through) an accident, jeopordizing themselves and anyone else around them. The agreed upon "compromise" was to grant the first car a lap down the "lucky dog"...

It is for the same type safety reasons there are speed limits on pit road... They didn't use to have speed limits. They used to come down pit road at 100 mph!!! I remember a race in the 1980's when Bill Elliott was FLYING down pit road, he hit his brakes, his rear brakes locked up, his car spun around, he smashed the rear tire guy from the team pitting in front of him. Bill squashed the guy between his car and the car in front of him and killed the guy.

Concern for the safety of the drivers and crew members has been the catalyst for these rule changes... NOT ratings!

[Johnny Hunkins]

Another aspect to all those changes is that NASCAR is constantly reinventing itself to stay fresh. There was restrictor plates, the small-block rule, the qualifying engine rule, the Winston Million, The Busch Clash, night racing, The Race at the end of the season, and so forth. Rather than rely on manufacturers to provide the excitement, I think they're just exerting control over their own sport.

Give it a few more years. NASCAR will start making drivers swap cars, wives, positions, engines, anything to keep it interesting. NASCAR is gradually becoming a caricature of itself.

[novaderrik]

You are definately either a casual or very YOUNG observer... The WHOLE intention for the "Lucky Dog" was for the safety of the drivers. If you happened to be a fan more than 10 years ago or so, you would have seen some REALLY bad wrecks involving drivers "racing" to the caution flag. At that time there were NO scoring transducers. The field wasn't "frozen". The drivers RACED to the start-finish line when a caution came out, many times right past (and through) an accident, jeopordizing themselves and anyone else around them. The agreed upon "compromise" was to grant the first car a lap down the "lucky dog"...

It is for the same type safety reasons there are speed limits on pit road... They didn't use to have speed limits. They used to come down pit road at 100 mph!!! I remember a race in the 1980's when Bill Elliott was FLYING down pit road, he hit his brakes, his rear brakes locked up, his car spun around, he smashed the rear tire guy from the team pitting in front of him. Bill squashed the guy between his car and the car in front of him and killed the guy.

Concern for the safety of the drivers and crew members has been the catalyst for these rule changes... NOT ratings!

they can have safety without the "lucky dog". every other major race series in the world does it- why can't they?
and i am not a newcomer to NASCAR- the first races i remember watching on a weekly basis had a yellow and blue Monte Carlo with Wrangler logos and a big "3" on the roof and doors and some guy named "Dale" leaving everyone else in the dust- but i was watching the races with my dad off and on going back to the early 80's.
due to all the crap that they've been changing in the last 10 years or so, i've kind of drifted away from giving up my Sunday afternoons all summer long to watch the races- and now that they show most of the races on cable (which i don't have) and on saturdays (when i'm out- you know- doing stuff), i don't watch it at all. but if they had cars i could relate to the cars i see in my day to day travels and rules that actually rewarded being better than everyone else, then i might find a way to watch them. but for now, i'll have to settle with making my Monte look like the cars that raced back when it was new- because, as you know, they used "stock car" parts to build them.
i, for one, love the idea of "Project Talledega"- even if i don't like using the name of a Ford on a Chevy project car who's given name would make the perfect name for the build..

[Norm Peterson]

You are definately either a casual or very YOUNG observer... The WHOLE intention for the "Lucky Dog" was for the safety of the drivers. If you happened to be a fan more than 10 years ago or so, you would have seen some REALLY bad wrecks involving drivers "racing" to the caution flag. At that time there were NO scoring transducers. The field wasn't "frozen". The drivers RACED to the start-finish line when a caution came out, many times right past (and through) an accident, jeopordizing themselves and anyone else around them. The agreed upon "compromise" was to grant the first car a lap down the "lucky dog"...
I see no need for this soret of compromise at all, given that it's supposed to be about safety. As far as I'm concerned, the "lucky dog" is nothing more than limited (so far, anyway) and explicitly legalized passing under the yellow. It is unrelated to track safety other than through its need for a caution to occur before it can be taken advantage of. How is unlapping oneself any different from sneaking up a position or two among the lead lap cars, and how was lead lap position shuffling intended to be enforced?


Norm

[shortrack]

I see no need for this soret of compromise at all, given that it's supposed to be about safety. As far as I'm concerned, the "lucky dog" is nothing more than limited (so far, anyway) and explicitly legalized passing under the yellow. It is unrelated to track safety other than through its need for a caution to occur before it can be taken advantage of. How is unlapping oneself any different from sneaking up a position or two among the lead lap cars, and how was lead lap position shuffling intended to be enforced?


Norm

so are you saying nobody should get their lap back?

[Norm Peterson]

Possibly getting a lap back as a result of the subsequent pit strategy and restart technique is one thing. Handing out a free pass to a single driver simply because somebody else happened to have something go wrong amounts to unearned track position relative to every other driver still running.


Norm

[Johnny Hunkins]

I don't think they actually improve their track position. I think they get on the tale end of the lead lap. Track position stays the same, but the lap they're on improves.

[Twentyover]

I don't think they actually improve their track position. I think they get on the tale end of the lead lap. Track position stays the same, but the lap they're on improves.

And when they restart, rather than needing to pass the lead car and catch up what- a mile? mile and a half, they start 1/4 mile behind the lead car. They make up most of a full lap (without the need to race it and pass other cars), so there is significant advantage gained. Is it fair to the unlucky dog (the guy behind the lucky dog), who may have had a faster car, and positioning himself for a pass? The unlucky dog now needs to catch up most of a lap before he can execute. Yea, racing isn't fair, but to make a rule that encourages an unfair practice is bogus.

These guys have transponders- car position is determined by the last complete greenflag lap, like real race sanctioning bodies do it.

[TonyL]

This thread makes me LOL.
Seriously though. How's about an update Johnny? Has a wrench been turned in anger on project Talladega? Inquiring minds want to know. Spy photos? Hows about a tidbit to get this thread back on track?

I so regret hijacking this thread. Bad form for me. But too much discussion has taken place to mess it all up.

[Norm Peterson]

Not worth beating yourself up over, Tony. Any NASCAR discussion, Brian France era, is eventually going to wander off in the same general direction(s). Some things did need to be changed, but BF seems to have gotten carried away with change for the sake of change - like any other marketing guy with clean fingernails. Not everything he's "fixed" was broken . . .

Regarding the build, a NASCAR theme is probably the most appropriate direction that this particular model could be taken in.


Norm

[Dragonsnake]

The nascar theme fits this cars like the rally theme fits old european cars like Cortina Mk1 and escort Mk1.

Like the trans am theme on 67-70 camaro-mustang-cougar Javelin.

In fact one of my friends thats not so interested in cars,said 10 years ago that my Chevelle 76 would look good done as a nascar clone.

And we are in norway:)

[Part Time]

opps.

[Johnny Hunkins]

For progress, check these threads:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/188079/tp/1/
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/198239/

I promised at the start of this project that I would run most of my information through the Doc's 1973-1977 Chevelles forum.

[Steve1968LS2]

For progress, check these threads:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/188079/tp/1/
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/198239/

I promised at the start of this project that I would run most of my information through the Doc's 1973-1977 Chevelles forum.

You mean the thread where you point to this thread and mention the "beating" your Laguna project is taking over here? lol

Just because a few guys don't dig doing something like a Laguna doesn't mean everyone hates the project and is only into Camaros. I think most of the guys here appreciate "something different" it's just that some arn't into Lagunas or maybe just into the NASCAR theme.

I'm sure, on some board somewhere, a few people didn't like my Fairlane (insert shrug here)

[TonyL]

Johnny could have just pointed to the PHR blogs also. (http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/index.html) Looks like it's coming along.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/photobykeithkanak-1.jpg

Photo courtesy of PopularHotrodding.

I like the satin finish on the bumper.

[novaderrik]

i've got a sponsorship idea for the car- get NASCAR to let you put NASCAR logos all over the thing.
of course, then they'd make you paint the rocker panels silver and put a 3 on it, since that's as "retro" as they would want to go. and they'd want it to say "Impala" on the nose. and it would have to have a wing instead of a spoiler. and you wouldn't be allowed to mention ho cool the cars looked back in the day.

[StreetSweeper]

While I applaud trying to do something different form a first gen Camaro or a 70 Chevelle, this project goes beyond being different to the point of being ridiculous.

It's a NASCAR tribute (of sorts) yet the only track time it'll see is maybe on a dragstrip? Huh? Why not give it more of a mild autocross themed treatment so it'll be better for street use, and you can autocross the car occasionally?

Setting aside the self serving nature of this build, I think a better angle would've been a budget fun project that helps readers see what they can do in these trying economic times. While not the most popular or best looking cars, the mid-70s A-bodies are still cheap to purchase, take the same suspension and powerplant improvements as the early A-bodies, and can be fun cars to drive even if they don't look great. Like the guy who posted pictures of his ratty-looking (written with respect not disdain) 73-74 A-body that he runs on road courses. Not a ton of money invested, and fun as hell to drive. And with some body repair/improvement DIY stuff, could be made to look better.

Bottom line, while trying to recognize the few positives about this project, I basically think it's a waste of a decent project car foundation, and doesn't serve the readership of the book very well.

[twosaturns]

...this project goes beyond being different to the point of being ridiculous.

. While not the most popular or best looking cars, the mid-70s A-bodies... And with some body repair/improvement DIY stuff, could be made to look better.

Bottom line, while trying to recognize the few positives about this project, I basically think it's a waste of a decent project car foundation, and doesn't serve the readership of the book very well.

interesting 1st post.

the only thing 'ridiculous' is people assuming that everyone agrees that these cars are not 'the best looking'. good looks are a matter of preference or taste. so what if you feel that the ealier cars are 'better looking'? most people also like pasty skin blondes, while the rest of us know there are other better choices out there.
and what do you mean by 'few positives'? it's a budget build, it's do-able, it's drivable, fixable, fun, different, practical; what's your problem?
IMO, PHR has always done things different from CC/HR (at least they used to). PHR always featured the AMCs, MoPars, etc while 'they' went after one more red camaro.

[Dragonsnake]

As the owner of the ratty looking 76 Chevelle,i dont think he have said so much wrong.

The 73-77 a-body chevelle arent the most popular or pretty lookin,but they dont need tons of money invested to be a very good handling american sedan.

Basically you need a Chevelle 2 door or el Camino from these years.And dont think i dont like other GM cars from this period.its just that you need the big wheel wells to stuff tires into.

If you remove the bumper brackets front and rear and removes the original front seat and installs some good lateral support seats,theres been removed 300 pounds.

So now the car weighs the same as a 3rd gen camaro.

All the suspension parts from caprice cop cars interchange,so a lot of parts can be taken from them.

So the big thing about this cars are......

Can you make them cool?

Everybody(almost)can make a camaro cool.

[Part Time]

Looks like it is coming along pretty nice. Can't wait for the bumper tuck story, have a set to do myself. Although I'm not a big fan of the big decals that are planned, this build shows that their will be ideas for a lot of people to take and apply to their car regardless if they like the whole car or not.






Johnny could have just pointed to the PHR blogs also. (http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/index.html) Looks like it's coming along.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/photobykeithkanak-1.jpg

Photo courtesy of PopularHotrodding.

I like the satin finish on the bumper.

[Part Time]

It's a good bet we'll have to counter the Laguna with a red '69 Camaro and an LS1--if my career even survives the ordeal.[/quote]


I'm sure you'll be fine. Take the "bashing" with a grain of salt. Hang in there.

[stricker76]

the only thing 'ridiculous' is people assuming that everyone agrees that these cars are not 'the best looking'. good looks are a matter of preference or taste. so what if you feel that the ealier cars are 'better looking'? most people also like pasty skin blondes, while the rest of us know there are other better choices out there.
and what do you mean by 'few positives'? it's a budget build, it's do-able, it's drivable, fixable, fun, different, practical; what's your problem?

Couldn't have said it better myself. I actually don't think the project is getting bashed as bad as Johnny thinks. Like i mentioned on chevytalk, you will never please everyone....there will always be some who just have to rip it to pieces for something to do.

[bnickel]

i've always liked the collonade lagunas, the S-3 and the flatter nosed variant as well, i actually prefer the flat nosed one but that's just me. i think the street nascar themed build is cool and i applaud the fact that you are sticking to 15" wheels.


Strt of hi-jack:
my 69 cougar project will have 15" wheels too, and dare i say it, they will be "old school" Riken mesh wheels from the 80's. what's kind of funny though is that the first use of this style wheel was actually on the 68 Cougar XR7-G and they were made by Rader wheel, unfortunately these wheels were recalled and only a few original sets still exist today but that is actually where that wheel style originated. the XR-7G was built specifically for Hertz, kind of like the Shelby GT-350-H, Mercury wanted to use actual wire wheels but Hertz didn't think they would be durable enough for a rental car so they compromised and the aluminum mesh wheel was born, though only the centers were actually aluminum, the rim was steel like a cragar SS or Keystone classic. so i think it's kind of fitting that i'm using a mesh wheel on my cougar with 15" tires.
end of hi-jack

now, although i think this is a cool project the name Talladega is just wrong on a chevy. i think you should have called "Project S-3 SS" SS standing for street stock which still has a stock car racing theme to it. that's my opinion and if you decide to change the name of the project i want credit for it in the mag....LOL

hell Steve didn't even give me credit in the mag for picking the cam in the Fastlane Fairlane.....dammit!!!!! :ripped: maybe PHR should do a feature article on my 69 Mustang GT coupe restomod or a buildup article series on my 69 cougar P-T sleeper project to make up for it....LOL

anyway, good luck on the 'Guna boat

[KrisHorton]

Johnny,

Glad you finally got a Laguna! I remember when you and I worked on the forgotten cars story back in '05, you would rant and rave about how much you liked the Laguna.

To the naysayers, I'd definitely be patient and wait to see what Johnny does with this car. It's not everyone's cup of tea (heck, I don't even like NASCAR) but kudos for doing something different. Thinking out of the box usually won't get you much love, but I definitely have respect for those who try it.

KH

[bnickel]

like i said i love the project but the name isn't right for GM product, sorry, can't help it. i'm anxiously awaiting something other than teaser pics though

[Johnny Hunkins]

As much as I'd like to give full disclosure about the car right now, there is good reason to keep the lid on it for now.

Most magazines (even Hot Rod and Car Craft) will introduce a project car, do a story or two, then get behind, and drop it. (When was the last time you saw a story on the Disco Nova, or that AMC? Both cool cars in my book.) My problem with that is that a project car raises the expectation that there will be regular editorial on it every month.

To prevent the inevitable gap in coverage, I want to make sure we have several stories in the bag before we show the first wrench being turned. The reality is, the staff at car magazines don't really have any more time to do this stuff than any body else. To make it all seamless, we bank stories, and sometimes circle back on stuff in more detail.

You'll notice that we're still pumping out stories on the '68 Chevelle. That's because we had them banked.

I'm really glad that so many people want to see the Laguna. The teaser pix must be working.

I'll just say one more thing about the name "Talladega." The name is far more associated with the race track (39 years) than it is with the car (just 754 built in only one year--1969). The Talladega car was built to commemorate the track, not the other way around.

[Norm Peterson]

Guess there's no changing your mind about the name now, but I think that within certain groups of people there is stronger identification of the 'Talladega' tag with Ford than exists in the population at large (especially compared to the younger crowd that has grown up with imports and FWD almost-everything being around for their whole lives and the Talladega car being nearly a generation removed).

All of the existing name associations matter, so when you mention the single word "Talladega" on a forum that's centered around performance-oriented build-ups of 1960's and 1970's cars you just can't help stirring up the Ford-Chevy rivalry. Same thing with people with some awareness of late 1960's NASCAR - dare I suggest that there are more than a few members in common between the two groups? If we were building and discussing performance boats here instead, I'll bet you'd have hardly seen a ripple of dissent.

Of course, "Project Lowe's" doesn't work at all, and "Project CMS" is hardly any better.

More than once it has crossed my mind to swap a Chevy engine into a rather rough early Mustang rather than let the poor little blue oval go to the crusher. But I certainly wouldn't label the effort "Project Laguna".


Norm

[shortrack]

maybe you shoulda' called it "The Lady in Black Project Darlington" and paint it black.:)

[novaderrik]

maybe you shoulda' called it "The Lady in Black Project Darlington" and paint it black.:)
i think they mostly ran Montes on the short tracks and road courses, and used the sleeker Laguna for the big tracks. so it would have to be named after one of the big tracks- even tho Laguna Seca is a road course now called "Mazda raceway".
you can't call it "Project Daytona" due to the Mopar thing.
"Project Pocono", maybe?

maybe i should do my Monte up all short track looking and call it "the Bristol Bruiser"

[bnickel]

since the car was already named for a track why does it have to be named for another track? why not simply project Laguna or project Cannonball Run, remember the hawaiian punch laguna in that? and your build actually goes better with that kind of a theme since the car is being built for interstate cruising or "coast to coast" type driving. or maybe project Lagunas Run kind of play on words with Logans Run the movie and the Laguna and work in a cannonball run twist somehow. anything, anything but project Talladega, too me a Talladega has either a 428cj or an SOHC 427, either way it is most definitely ford powered. just my opinion but that was seriously the wrong name for a chevrolet project.

[Johnny Hunkins]

You guys are convincing me more than ever that I got the name right. Nobody's going to forget about it, and everybody's going to have an opinion about it. Since these mid '70s A-bodies are mostly throw-away cars anyway (and largely dismissed), I think I'll get a lot of mileage out of just the name deal alone.

11 pages and counting...

[Bow Tie 67]

And its locked in I just read your " Bangin Gears "

[Norm Peterson]

You guys are convincing me more than ever that I got the name right...
A literary version of "dare to be different"? OK.

Soooo . . . why not take it another step, be REALLY different and make the name fit a little better at the same time. I'll bet you could fit a Boss 429 and have an insiders' joke on the rest of the magazine and internet readership as long as you kept the hood shut for the final pictures.

If you aren't doing this already, I dare you :evil:


Norm

[Neil B]

I'm a little late reading the PHR article, but I think it's a cool project as long as it's well-executed. The car needs to sit right and have the bulging fenders of the real-deal. I hope you can pull off the look of the original race tires, it's hard to get that look with street tires.

I agree with bnickel's post above, this project kinda reminds me of Terry Bradshaw's Hawaiian Tropic car in the Cannonball Run movie which was a knock off of the Donnie Allison/Hoss Ellington racer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/268-1.jpg

[twosaturns]

from the look of that vidcap, they didn't even use a real stock car! shoot, all this time (and the memory of a 10yr old) thought it was an actual race car. is nothing sacred???

[Bill Howell]

Johnny, I see in the newest PHR that you are getting it painted in App. Junction.
Does the owner of the shop have a Prostreet/showcar Malibu? If so tell him I said hey, I bought his Dad's Vette a few years back.

[bnickel]

You guys are convincing me more than ever that I got the name right. Nobody's going to forget about it, and everybody's going to have an opinion about it. Since these mid '70s A-bodies are mostly throw-away cars anyway (and largely dismissed), I think I'll get a lot of mileage out of just the name deal alone.

11 pages and counting...

hmmmmm, doubt it. more than likely they'll just remember that some damn jackass magazine editor pissed a bunch of people off with the name of one of his project cars.....well maybe they'll remember your name ....:doh: :spank2: :pat: :poke: :bicycle: .....ROTFLOL...J/K

[Johnny Hunkins]

Wow. You're really good with that smiley face thing. Anybody who allows themself to get that bent out of shape by the name of someone else's car is sociopath material. Just kidding.

[bnickel]

Wow. You're really good with that smiley face thing. Anybody who allows themself to get that bent out of shape by the name of someone else's car is sociopath material. Just kidding.

well i really was kidding. i'm glad you went back added the just kidding part at the end, because my email of your last post didn't have it and i was about to get really upset.

i really was kidding John, hence the reason for all the smileys, had i been serious there would have been a distinct lack of them

[Rreemo]

Dude- you've got some balls posting about someone you don't even know like that. If John is taking pictures, it's because he's WORKING and sometimes you have to do your job.

I had the pleasure of working with Johnny for years and he is absolutely dedicated to his job and his family, and I proudly call him a friend.

If you want to badmouth someone, please share more than a passing experience with them as your firsthand knowledge of their character, okay?

Until then, please stfu.

Here's one for you Scott....maybe you should get off those nuts and STFU until you see it from others POV....we who represent the public....the ones who buy, or used to buy this publication. I've talked to plenty of people on this same subject, and haven't heard one disagreement to the concern....I get around as well.

Very sorry, I'm a reader not much of a poster on this board, but I just came across this thread and will have to say that I'll back BigMac in his post - he's probably the most humble guy I've ever met and very good about being descrete, but he has built some known cars....one of which is in advertisements in damned near every car magazine that you'll pick up. Bottom line, he knows a lot of people and has been around - don't mistake that!

My wife and I both are very big into this game, and we also happen to have a young (tall, skinny, blond) daughter....we've both become a bit crept out by the insistent coverage/pictures of these little girls in PHR....so much so that I did stop my subscription as well just a few months back. As stated by others way earlier in this thread, I'm as red-blooded as the next guy, but there's a place for everything, and it seems to me that PHR/Hunkins stepped over that line a while back. It's a shame, because I did like a lot of the cars that were covered there...it's a mag that I can relate to otherwise, and always appreciated what Steve had to add (thumbs up Steve -I love the Penny!), but the whole little girl thing just seemed to become more & more with each passing month.

I'm sorry Johnny, I don't know you in-person...perhaps if I did I would be able to balance my opinion, but from what I see in the magazine I'll have to make the dirty-old-perv call - you and/or the folks that know you personally may think otherwise, but you are in a position of high recognition, and should always remember that perception is reality to most of us regular folks.

Kinnan may give me a history lesson every month, but at least I don't feel like I have to hide it somewhere.

Again, sorry for speaking out of turn here, but I share the same opinion/concern and have heard it way more than once from others too.

[Johnny Hunkins]

What does STFU mean? My 12-year-old daugter hasn't explained that part of the text message lingo to me yet.

[tom_a]

What does STFU mean? My 12-year-old daugter hasn't explained that part of the text message lingo to me yet.

It means shut the f up...

And for the record I like the project and mag.:twothumbs

[SaturnVUEguy]

What does STFU mean? My 12-year-old daugter hasn't explained that part of the text message lingo to me yet.stfu is one you don't want her to learn, see post above mine

[Scott Parkhurst]

Here's one for you Scott....maybe you should get off those nuts and STFU until you see it from others POV....we who represent the public....the ones who buy, or used to buy this publication. I've talked to plenty of people on this same subject, and haven't heard one disagreement to the concern....I get around as well.

Very sorry, I'm a reader not much of a poster on this board, but I just came across this thread and will have to say that I'll back BigMac in his post - he's probably the most humble guy I've ever met and very good about being descrete, but he has built some known cars....one of which is in advertisements in damned near every car magazine that you'll pick up. Bottom line, he knows a lot of people and has been around - don't mistake that!

My wife and I both are very big into this game, and we also happen to have a young (tall, skinny, blond) daughter....we've both become a bit crept out by the insistent coverage/pictures of these little girls in PHR....so much so that I did stop my subscription as well just a few months back. As stated by others way earlier in this thread, I'm as red-blooded as the next guy, but there's a place for everything, and it seems to me that PHR/Hunkins stepped over that line a while back. It's a shame, because I did like a lot of the cars that were covered there...it's a mag that I can relate to otherwise, and always appreciated what Steve had to add (thumbs up Steve -I love the Penny!), but the whole little girl thing just seemed to become more & more with each passing month.

I'm sorry Johnny, I don't know you in-person...perhaps if I did I would be able to balance my opinion, but from what I see in the magazine I'll have to make the dirty-old-perv call - you and/or the folks that know you personally may think otherwise, but you are in a position of high recognition, and should always remember that perception is reality to most of us regular folks.

Kinnan may give me a history lesson every month, but at least I don't feel like I have to hide it somewhere.

Again, sorry for speaking out of turn here, but I share the same opinion/concern and have heard it way more than once from others too.

Okay- I'll consider your point. Now here's some truth.

Wayyy back when I was working at PHR with Johnny, we sat through too many meetings where the higher-ups were tossing ideas around about how to make the book more appealing. One of the big comparisons was to Muscle Mustangs, which had a livelier layout and plenty of models posing with the cars. This approach was discussed with respect to PHR, but most agreed it'd take away from the nuts-and-bolts approach PHR was known for. So, while they agreed it'd be wise not to start shooting models with the feature cars, they also agreed it would be wise to shoot some pretty girls who were attending the various events being covered.

It's not Johnny who wanted the girls in the mag.

I remember Johnny saying it'd be smarter and more genuine to avoid the 'spokesmodels' in the parts booths and try to shoot 'real' girls who were attending or participating in these events. That was a really good call, IMO, and it says a lot about how much Johnny loves the magazine and doesn't want to taint it.

So, knowing this, I've not been suprised or offended by seeing girls added to the event coverage. I've always thought the photos were done with taste, and the girls were certainly 'real' as opposed to paid models or bikini contest participants (a la Car Craft).

So, when I saw the earlier post, and then realized it was the guy's very first post here, it made me wonder if he had registered and signed up here just to make that post.

I'm glad to see this may not be the case, but knowing what I do about Johnny and seeing what I did in the post, I felt the need to step up and say something. Those who know me will tell you this is out of character for me (unless there's Scotch Whisky in the mix, which there wasn't on this particular occasion) and I'd venture to say that if you saw someone saying things that weren't completely true about someone you liked as a friend and respected as a professional, you might step up and say something too.

If there's a need, I'll happily and respectfully apologize to BigMac, but if you see things through my windshield, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

[TonyL]

I'm still looking forward to seeing how the car is received when it's completed. I cannot wait to read the "hate it / love it" section of the mag that will no doubt run after it debuts. I hope it turns out cool, it has potential, but I'm still on the fence about it.

I guess I'll play devils advocate and ask the big question. Is there a demonstratible improvement in the sales and subscription rates of PHR since the inclusion of the "girls at the shows" type event coverage? And again, since it was taken so personally, my complaint is that page space could have been spent on cars, parts, or car owners instead. The answer to that should put the matter to bed.

[JohnUlaszek]

Of course, the higher form of STFU is TFSU
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tfsu)

[Johnny Hunkins]

Tony, I'll try to answer your question. There is never any way to positively identify if one thing or another made a difference in newsstand sales. All you can do is look what month worked, and what didn't. You can also look at what works in other magazines that fit in the same market. The maddening thing is that you'll never know for sure. That's even twice as bad when you have a great month, and you're convinced you know what clicked. (You do it again, and it fails.) With that said, most people in our busines would agree that it helps to have a few girls in every issue, which is why the great majority of car magazines do.

And one more observation--the older you get, the younger the girls are.

[JohnUlaszek]

Speaking for myself,

The camera just likes some people better than others, and I don't see the problem with shooting a good looking person with a car regardless of age or gender. I have had models and parents of models thrilled to have a tasteful picture enjoying the hobby.

One only need look as far as the recent Miley Cyrus Fiasco (http://abcnews.go.com/entertainment/story?id=4736358&page=1) to see where people's wide ranging interpretation of a photo can create a controversy -- in this case it was a bare shoulder that had a vocal minority very upset , and incidentally created a hell of a buzz for Vanity Fair.

For me, the real issue here is that Hunkins is crazy enough to build a bumper car.

[TonyL]

And one more observation--the older you get, the younger the girls are.

So true Johnny. So true. That's fair enough, really. I mean, now I realize you're dealing with focus groups and market surveys telling you "Put more this and that" in your mag, and you gotta do what they say.
So I respect that. I think I have a solution we can all agree on. Just make your mag BIGGER. More pages man. Everyone wins then, right? That way we can have both!

I still love PHR, the photography is great, I like the editorial style of all the writers, and your target audience is right up my alley. Keep on keepin on, and I hope this project is received well.

[Derek69SS]

I just read this whole topic beginning to end. :banghead:

As to the original point, I agree "Talladega" isn't the best name for this car, but it doesn't really bother me either.

As for the build of the car, I think it was a very cool idea, but missed the mark as far as actually looking like a NASCAR tribute... The semi-gloss black, and orange lettering doesn't work IMHO. I like a lot of the NASCAR inspired styling cues, but it doesn't look anything like what you would have seen at Talladega in the mid 70s. The paint scheme just doesn't fit the era. In the mid-70s most of the cars were 2-toned with bold contrasting colors.

Cale Yarborough
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/Cale76S3vi-1.jpg

Richard Childress
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Benny Parsons
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/onbennyparsonsgunayoucanseetheslantnosef-1.jpg

[DarkBuddha]

I saw this thread and my original post made the "Message Board" pages of the latest issue of PHR. I had no idea it had spiraled so far off topic on so many things, nor that it'd go 12 pages (or more). I guess it does just show how topical and timely Project Talledega is... I'm still looking forward to the build, but I also still think you got the name wrong Johnny.

[TonyL]

One of my quotes made the article too! (albeit my inflammatory one.) I'm surprised that Johnny said he was actually thinking about changing it.

The redneck fantasy I was referencing was this car. The most famous "nascar tribute car" ever.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Steve1968LS2]

One of my quotes made the article too! (albeit my inflammatory one.) I'm surprised that Johnny said he was actually thinking about changing it.

The redneck fantasy I was referencing was this car. The most famous "nascar tribute car" ever.


Yea, I noticed the ONE thing I said, that was in jest, made the cut also... I guess he wanted it to look like we mostly hated the idea.

I will scan the article.. :)

[Steve1968LS2]

I saw this thread and my original post made the "Message Board" pages of the latest issue of PHR. I had no idea it had spiraled so far off topic on so many things, nor that it'd go 12 pages (or more). I guess it does just show how topical and timely Project Talledega is... I'm still looking forward to the build, but I also still think you got the name wrong Johnny.

This thread went in many directions.. discussions of NASCAR... discussions of women in PHR.. yada yada..

Still, it's better to be talked about rather than ignored.. :shrug:

[Munster]

Project Laguna, the Spirit of Talladega................:box2: I think the very initial time you hear the project name you don't picture a Laguna. And the flat black makes me think trailer park 'hot rod'. Even though alot more money will be thrown at it it still says that. Not saying there is anything wrong with that just don't beleive that is the vibe being sought.

But to be true to my own as I always say, "It belongs to you so do as you want and be proud of it, someone will always have an opinion and that belongs to them. Maybe with a little listening, both might change for the better."

This coming from a guy turning a Firebird into a Camaro.....

[DarkBuddha]

Still, it's better to be talked about rather than ignored.. :shrug:
Ain't that the truth.

[novaderrik]

i love the old NASCAR pics that Derek just posted- but only sort of for the cars.
i always get a kick out of how different the tracks looked back then- the front stretch Grandstand at Daytona looked like a county fair race track somewhere, and notice the lack of a retaining wall between the pit road and race track. i'd bet that if the camera was spun around at that very moment, there'd be a crewman in a white t shirt walking by with a full gas can on his shoulder and a lit Winston in his mouth...

[55chevyman]

what size nitto's are on project talladega???

[hoosiergta]

Lost track of this shortly after I posted on the first or second page about the name.Some how I missed checking this thread and missed out on the car of tommorow and the jail bait girls(ok that was a little harsh ) but even if I have to back this truck up two pages or so,let it be known........I do not like primmered cars. Especially high dollar primmered cars. The paint shouldn't look better BEFORE you start than after.You that red car pic as the layout and use glossy paint.

[chaz75]

Nitto Drag Radials (275/60R15)

[Rreemo]

Okay- I'll consider your point. Now here's some truth.

Wayyy back when I was working at PHR with Johnny, we sat through too many meetings where the higher-ups were tossing ideas around about how to make the book more appealing. One of the big comparisons was to Muscle Mustangs, which had a livelier layout and plenty of models posing with the cars. This approach was discussed with respect to PHR, but most agreed it'd take away from the nuts-and-bolts approach PHR was known for. So, while they agreed it'd be wise not to start shooting models with the feature cars, they also agreed it would be wise to shoot some pretty girls who were attending the various events being covered.

It's not Johnny who wanted the girls in the mag.

I remember Johnny saying it'd be smarter and more genuine to avoid the 'spokesmodels' in the parts booths and try to shoot 'real' girls who were attending or participating in these events. That was a really good call, IMO, and it says a lot about how much Johnny loves the magazine and doesn't want to taint it.

So, knowing this, I've not been suprised or offended by seeing girls added to the event coverage. I've always thought the photos were done with taste, and the girls were certainly 'real' as opposed to paid models or bikini contest participants (a la Car Craft).

So, when I saw the earlier post, and then realized it was the guy's very first post here, it made me wonder if he had registered and signed up here just to make that post.

I'm glad to see this may not be the case, but knowing what I do about Johnny and seeing what I did in the post, I felt the need to step up and say something. Those who know me will tell you this is out of character for me (unless there's Scotch Whisky in the mix, which there wasn't on this particular occasion) and I'd venture to say that if you saw someone saying things that weren't completely true about someone you liked as a friend and respected as a professional, you might step up and say something too.

If there's a need, I'll happily and respectfully apologize to BigMac, but if you see things through my windshield, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

Yup - agreed. That makes sense to me, and of course like I pointed out before...obviously more info that most of us regular folks aren't exposed to, that sheds more light on this. With this explanation here, I can't blame Johnny for the way he approached it. I'm sure the powers-that-be quite often put you magazine guys in a bad place...and with a situation like this, it's someone else's reputation (Hunkins in this case) that is being risked, and not fair that he doesn't have full control over that either.

Good reply - thanks! ...and apologies to Mr. Hunkins for being seemingly called out on something that he may not have full control over.

BTW - I'm a Johnny Walker Black fan myself. :)

[twosaturns]

sorry about the double post, my work computer is all funky...

[twosaturns]

I've spent some time trying to find a guys webpage about his laguna project; it's been a few years and I can't find it. suffice it to say he was doing a full teardown buildup of his car. anyway, while looking for that, I found this:

http://www.usbody.com/Pages_Cars/73-Chevelle.htm

just thought I'd share. kind of takes care of the whole rusty heavyweight issue, no?

[novaderrik]

egad. they make a whole 73-77 Chevelle body..
and they even make a fiberglass hood for my 74 Monte... not cheap, but probably 100 pounds off the nose. if they'd just make fenders ,doors, and bumpers, i could win the lottery and make myself a flyweight bruiser...

[woody80z28]

I've always liked PHR and I like the way the magazine is going. It's nice to see all the high-dollar cars for inspiration, but it's also nice to see the more budget-oriented cars that have been stressed more lately. Realistic builds are nice. I don't mind the girls either but what do I know, I'm a youngin.

Project Talladega is a cool idea too. A friend of mine Larry Underwood has a sweet Laguna and has been looking for a build like this. I like the flat black too, it looks great in that preview shot.

[bnickel]

I saw this thread and my original post made the "Message Board" pages of the latest issue of PHR. I had no idea it had spiraled so far off topic on so many things, nor that it'd go 12 pages (or more). I guess it does just show how topical and timely Project Talledega is... I'm still looking forward to the build, but I also still think you got the name wrong Johnny.

yeah i'm almost surprised that Johnny didn't use my "Jack-ass editor" comment. even though i really was joking, i think i offended him pretty bad but i really, really didn't mean to do so. so here's my formal apology to Johnny......SORRY DUDE!!!!!!!!!

you have to take everything i say with a grain of salt. i'm a moderator over at 69stang.com and we have a very tight-nit group there and we are always talking trash to each other like that, just ask DarkBuddha, he know's what i'm talking about. even though his sorry-ass hasn't even poked his head in to say in forever!!!!!!!! i guess he was getting way too many photoshop requests or something :rolleyes: stop in and say hito your buds over there once in a while Wyatt!!!!!

[DarkBuddha]

yeah i'm almost surprised that Johnny didn't use my "Jack-ass editor" comment. even though i really was joking, i think i offended him pretty bad but i really, really didn't mean to do so. so here's my formal apology to Johnny......SORRY DUDE!!!!!!!!!

you have to take everything i say with a grain of salt. i'm a moderator over at 69stang.com and we have a very tight-nit group there and we are always talking trash to each other like that, just ask DarkBuddha, he know's what i'm talking about. even though his sorry-ass hasn't even poked his head in to say in forever!!!!!!!! i guess he was getting way too many photoshop requests or something :rolleyes: stop in and say hito your buds over there once in a while Wyatt!!!!!
Yeah... those 69stang.com folks have got a bit of jab in their speech by nature. Probably comes from so many of us getting disillusioned with stangnet and corralnet, etc. I do apologize for my inactivity on those forums, but as with most of us, I had to narrow which forums I frequent because of time constraints and the general noise level on some of them (between folks rehashing the same crap over and over and the freaking ads and ad words that crowd them). That's one of the reasons I've enjoyed being on the Merkur boards... no one is going to bother trying to advertise to a bunch of psuedo-eurotrash, pinto motored oddballs.:drive2:

[bnickel]

Yeah... those 69stang.com folks have got a bit of jab in their speech by nature. Probably comes from so many of us getting disillusioned with stangnet and corralnet, etc. I do apologize for my inactivity on those forums, but as with most of us, I had to narrow which forums I frequent because of time constraints and the general noise level on some of them (between folks rehashing the same crap over and over and the freaking ads and ad words that crowd them). That's one of the reasons I've enjoyed being on the Merkur boards... no one is going to bother trying to advertise to a bunch of psuedo-eurotrash, pinto motored oddballs.:drive2:

well you'll be happy to know that we only have ad banners now, like pretty much every forum nowadays, Ben has changed the new member policy so new users are not allowed to post new topics until they have been a memeber for a certain amount of time and have replied to a few open threads so that seems to be limiting the number of rehash questions and has totally done away with all the spambots, porn or otherwise, though i think Pakrat was a little upset losing the porn spam post.....LOL.

as a matter of fact there is a current thread going about members that have been MIA for a while so now might be a good time to pop in and say hi......

[65corsatc]

I for one am glad they are expanding into the "******* children" of the 70's. With the price of the muscle cars it's nice to see some more affordable options.

[shortrack]

wanted to post a pic but its not working

[driveit]

Loved this project. Does anyone have any other links, photos or information about it?

[ForzaV12]

Loved this project. Does anyone have any other links, photos or information about it?


Yup, bought it a few weeks ago. Planning some changes to better align with the theme. Road Rally event with it in Mexico in a few days.

[ForzaV12]

pic from event, most of the cars we were up against were modded Porsches. The big Laguna did very well.

http://imageshack.com/a/img909/6555/mclmcQ.jpg