A challenge for all you fantasy car builder

[matthimself456]

I'm not sure this is quite PT but I know one of my favorite pasttimes is to mentally spec out interesting projects that I have no time or funds to complete. It seems like others here enjoy the same. The difference is I might actually give this one a shot.

My daily driver right now is a 96 Roadmaster wagon with an lt1 soon to be rebuilt and supercharged to around 400rwhp. I put the poor thing through last winter but it has amazingly little rust for a Rochester car and I can't bear to do it again. That and the fact that the wagon only sees an average of 19mpg and it will soon get less and require premium has me looking for a winter beater / more economical daily driver. The problem is I hate driving boring cars. No way am I going to buy a corolla or civic or malibu or something lame.

It can't be anything old and rare because it *will* be totally rusted out in 5 years and it would break my heart to watch a decent car disintegrate. Should be something rwd, preferably have a manual transmission, and be able to pull off an average of 30mpg. Now here's the real tricky part: I have a lot of expensive things to accomplish on the wagon and I'm a poor college kid so lets set a budget of $5000 for this fantasy project.

Here's my best thought so far:

I'd like to find a 84-91 C4 Corvette with either no drivetrain or drivetrain issues. I figure $1500 could probably get one with clapped out paint and a well-worn interior. Now you might think a Corvette would be a poor choice for a winter car but it has more of its weight over the rear wheels then a lot of rwd cars and I'm sure a stock-height Corvette has more ground clearance than my slammed wagon and it did great in the snow. It would absolutely have to have some skinny snow tires in the winter. Maybe on the narrow 4th gen V6 f-body 16" steelies. Corvettes are fiberglass so body rust is far less of an issue and the low drag and relatively light weight should help efficiency.

For a drivetrain I'm thinking either a series II 3.8 liter supercharged V6 from a Grand Prix GTP or the like mated to a 4th gen V6 f-body T5 transmission. Or maybe a turbocharged 2.0l Ecotec from a Saab 9-3 with the boost turned up to give similar output to the Soltice GXP motor but without the high cost and difficulty of finding an actual GXP engine. That could be hooked to a Solstice 5-speed which also happens to be the same as the Colorado/Canyon 5-speed making them affordable and available. I think forced induction and less displacement would be the way to go to maximize mileage while keeping things entertaining. The Solstice GXP has 260/260 hp/ft-lbs, wieghs only about 250lbs more than a C4 (which would no-doubt lose weight with the iron small block replaced with an aluminum 'banger) and seems to be totally capable of 30mpg average fuel economy.

So let me know you guys' ideas. My other option is to buy my buddy's totally rotted diesel f-250 for a grand and do the vegetable oil thing. Run wild!

[showa]

Take one air cooled VW..........
One subaru flat 4 ...
Add one KEP adapter kit........
Add one Baja body kit...
Add one radiator...
Add one heater.....

Simmer and shake.....

Now you have one unique winter ride w/heater, decent gas milage and plenty of room for snow tires with minimal snow pack in fenders......(I grewup in Albany and understand, thats why I now live in Las Vegas)

Repeat every 2-3 years or as rust happens....Tons of cheap upkeep and parts.....

And for yucks you could slam it for the spring thru fall auto-x-ing then back up for winter........

[matthimself456]

I kinda dig that VW idea.


No-one else?

[andrewb70]

1986-1991 RX7 with a 5.3L 4L60e swap. You will get over 30 mpg and have a car that runs 12s.

Andrew

[Memphis]

Chevette 5.3/T56

[matthimself456]

Would a V8 RX7 really do that well on gas? I'm sure 30 on the highway is no big deal but 30 average? Most of my driving is on very hilly rural roads. It's not "stop and go" city but it tends to use a lot more fuel than "set the cruise and sit back" highway.


I was poking around a VW site and ran across a fella with a slammed fenderless bug with the drivetrain removed and the engine, transmission, and swingarm from a sportbike behind the front seats. I wonder if that could be made to work in the winter. A square-shouldered car tire could be used in the back since it would not lean like a bike so I could use snow tires. I would guess a weight of 1500# would be reasonable so mileage would probably be near 40 and with 120hp or so it wouldn't be slow by any means....

[matthimself456]

Bueller?

[SaturnVUEguy]

Opel GT with the drivetrain from a Saturn Sky Redline

[showa]

Now THAT ^ sounds neat....But not one I would want to waste winter driving....

[andrewb70]

Would a V8 RX7 really do that well on gas? I'm sure 30 on the highway is no big deal but 30 average? Most of my driving is on very hilly rural roads. It's not "stop and go" city but it tends to use a lot more fuel than "set the cruise and sit back" highway.


I was poking around a VW site and ran across a fella with a slammed fenderless bug with the drivetrain removed and the engine, transmission, and swingarm from a sportbike behind the front seats. I wonder if that could be made to work in the winter. A square-shouldered car tire could be used in the back since it would not lean like a bike so I could use snow tires. I would guess a weight of 1500# would be reasonable so mileage would probably be near 40 and with 120hp or so it wouldn't be slow by any means....

I don't know that an automatic RX7 would get 30 mpg. I do know that my LS6 powered RX7 with a T56 and 4.10 gears got about 27-28 driving on the highway at 75-80 mph. It had a small cam and made 400rwhp.

Honestly, if you want a fun, reliable, easy to maintain car. Get a 94-97 Miata. Keep it stock and drive the heck out of it. I have a 95 and I get 30 MPG on the highway, doing 80. Some of my friends make fun of me for driving that car. Then one of them drove it. He couldn't wipe a smile off his face for hours. He doesn't make fun anymore...LOL

Andrew

[Rick Dorion]

X2 for a Miata. My brother has had two. I do the suspension mods and get to drive it :)

[Young Gun]

Honestly, if you want a fun, reliable, easy to maintain car. Get a 94-97 Miata. Keep it stock and drive the heck out of it. I have a 95 and I get 30 MPG on the highway, doing 80. Some of my friends make fun of me for driving that car. Then one of them drove it. He couldn't wipe a smile off his face for hours. He doesn't make fun anymore...LOL

Andrew

Its amazing that small two seater roadsters are now considered "chick cars" when was the last time somebody said a shelby cobra was a chick car?

[jackfrost]

the Miata is a good option.

how about:

- EFI 5.0 Fox-body Mustang. i'm not sure if you'll get 30 mpg, but it'll be decent, and you won't have to worry about ruining it :razz: and there's tons of 'em out there to get for less than $5k

- LS1 f-body, or LS1 swap into something else, like an RX7 or a g-body. a friend drives a 98 TA and routinely gets 28mpg on the highway.

- one of the old-er foreign sports cars, like an earlly Supra, RX7, 300ZX, 3000GT

- not the best looking car ever, but occasionally Porsche 928 (http://motors.completed.shop.ebay.com/items/Cars-Trucks___porsche-928_W0QQBodyTypebe9b8ef8ZCoupe3e4611eQQ_nkwZporsch eQ20928QQQ5ftrksidZp4506Q2ec0Q2em228QQLHQ5fComplet eZ1QQ_flnZ1QQ_fromfsbZ0QQ_sopZ1?MotorsShowItems&guest=1)'s pop up on eBay for less than $5k.

- also, occasionally older 3-series (http://motors.completed.shop.ebay.com/items/Cars-Trucks___bmw_W0QQLHQ5fPriceZQ2eQ2e5Q2c000Q40cQQ_nk wZbmwQQQ5ftrksidZp4506Q2ec0Q2em228QQLHQ5fCompleteZ 1QQ_fcsfcZ0QQ_flnZ1QQ_fromfsbZ0QQ_mPrRngCbxZ1QQ_so pZ1QQ_verZ4) will pop up for less than $5k. I-6, stick shift, 2-door, could be fun.


watch for salvaged and wrecked cars. you can get pretty good cars sometimes if you're willing to wrench a little, or bolt on a new body panel.

:twothumbs

[jackfrost]

Its amazing that small two seater roadsters are now considered "chick cars" when was the last time somebody said a shelby cobra was a chick car?

put a full roll cage in one. no one will quesiton you. :naughty:

[twosaturns]

The problem is I hate driving boring cars. No way am I going to buy a corolla or civic or malibu or something lame.

Should be something rwd, preferably have a manual transmission, and be able to pull off an average of 30mpg.

I don't know what you've driven or this bias against FWD, but a civic si is not boring. or how about a subaru impreza 2.5? me personally I would go w/ a mkII VW GTI, like an '87-'88. DOHC ones are harder to find, but an 8V is plenty fun, def NOT boring, and it'll knock down close to 40mpg.
w/ your plans for the land yacht, I wouldn't waste my time w/ a huge project like building a vette like you describe. that's a huge undertaking for what basically is an economy daily driver.

[Young Gun]

a while back some guy was building a rwd honda prelude that was powered by an LS1, dont know if he ever finished the build, i will look for the link, it was a good build thread from what I saw

EDIT:

Here is the link, saw it about two years ago, the guy didnt finish apparently

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1645997&page=1

[matthimself456]

I've been scoping out some interesting older RWD Japanese cars around here. Trouble is most of them really didn't do that well with gas. My bias against FWD is mostly just the fact that Civics and Jettas and Subarus are like belly buttons. Miata's are tempting but I'm not sure I could live it down. There are a bunch of real cheap Grand Ams and Grand Prix and the like around here. A GTP would be fast and get me close on mileage...

The idea I still like the best is the C4 with a boosted Ecotec. I don't think it would be too much trouble to build. Beyond the engine swap all it would entail would be rattle canning it flat black, getting some Pep Boys seat covers and floor mats, and putting a gold chain around my neck. If I can find a cheap one I might do it. A Cobalt SS or Solstice GXP or Turbo Saab engine easily bests the goofy crossfire setup from the early C4's anyway. Anyone have a 'vette laying around?...

[jerome]

I don't know how much experience you have with building cars, but I don't know how anyone could call building a C4 with an Ecotec motor an easy build. I'm no stranger to motors and chassis work, and that seems like a hell of a project.

seems like you're underestimating the swap:
computer control of the motor and transmission (sounds like a huge problem)
making engine mounts
making sure the oilpan/exhaust doesn't interfere with steering stuff, body, frame, transmission tunnel etc.
making ecotec steering pump work with existing box/rack
new gauges or making old gauges work
redoing console for new shifter location
new driveshaft
radiator inlet/outlet differences
new fuel system (don't think crossfire had high psi fuel system)
wiring the engine.

I'm all for cutting and chopping and fresh oddball builds, and I love the idea, but I don't think you fully realize that this is a big project that will suck away your time and money if you build it right.

[BonzoHansen]

I saw a Vega wagon the other day and my 1st thought was LS7.

[matthimself456]

I don't have dozens of car that I've built but I generally know my way around stuff. I'm not saying I could get it done in a weekend but if I started now it could be on the road before the snow flies.


I don't know how much experience you have with building cars, but I don't know how anyone could call building a C4 with an Ecotec motor an easy build. I'm no stranger to motors and chassis work, and that seems like a hell of a project.

seems like you're underestimating the swap:
computer control of the motor and transmission (sounds like a huge problem)
A: Megasquirt, would have to use a non-direct injection engine ie: no Solstice GXP or Sky Redline
making engine mounts
A: A little fab work, I like the challenge
making sure the oilpan/exhaust doesn't interfere with steering stuff, body, frame, transmission tunnel etc.
A: An Ecotec is pretty compact and has a similar oil pan shape to an SBC
making ecotec steering pump work with existing box/rack
A: This one would take some figuring...
new gauges or making old gauges work
A: I'm used to running around with just water temp, oil pressure, a Tach and a chart of what RPM in what gear is what speed.
redoing console for new shifter location
A: I'm a broke college kid and therefore a little bit of a hack. My solution here would be to put the console in the garage until I had time to figure it out right. An interior thats a little ratty makes me feel at home.
new driveshaft
A: Local shop here makes 'em cheap.
radiator inlet/outlet differences
A: I'm an expert scrounger (also due to being poor.) I bet one morning in the pick n pull would net me something I could make work.
new fuel system (don't think crossfire had high psi fuel system)
A: I'm not sure on this one but I bet an Ecotec runs on the same pressure as a gen 3. An Lt1 C4 gas tank aught to accept an LS1 style pump as a bolt-in.
wiring the engine.
A: That one takes time, no way around it.

I'm all for cutting and chopping and fresh oddball builds, and I love the idea, but I don't think you fully realize that this is a big project that will suck away your time and money if you build it right.

Anyways I do realize this isn't a walk in the park. I'm not saying I'm going to do it I just think it would be unique and cool and totally feasible.

[BonzoHansen]

new fuel system (don't think crossfire had high psi fuel Correct. Below 20 psi, IIRC test was in the mid teens. They ran better with higher PSI pumps.

[Abbott]

Toyota MR2 would be a fun car... turbo 4-banger RWD
Or you could go for the optional factory installed twin turbine setup :evil:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/scorching-1.jpg

[Paul_J]

How about a 1.8L DOHC VW bolted to an Audi A4 inline 5 speed transaxle in the back seat of a '54 VW bug body on a full chassis? ITB Fuel injected and a target of at least 30mpg combined. I'd like to get more but I'm trying to be realistic. I'd rather and ecotec but for right now it's easier and cheaper to use what I have.

[matthimself456]

That looks like a pretty killer little driver there, Paul_J.

What about older Volvos? Curb weight of a 240 is right at 3000 pounds. They have the aerodynamics of a strip mall but I wonder if a modern engine like an ecotec or 3800sc could make one into a miser. Thought?

[Memphis]

How about a 1.8L DOHC VW bolted to an Audi A4 inline 5 speed transaxle in the back seat of a '54 VW bug body on a full chassis? ITB Fuel injected and a target of at least 30mpg combined. I'd like to get more but I'm trying to be realistic. I'd rather and ecotec but for right now it's easier and cheaper to use what I have.
C'mon man no need to hack up a oval, use a super beetle lol.

[Shiro666]

I think a 94 Subaru Impreza coupe with Forrester struts and springs to raise it up, and meatball snows on steelies would do the job. Add an H6 from a tribecca and walla; four wheel drive death machine. Add 3" exhaust for that harley love child sound, and drive real fast.

[matthimself456]

Subaru's are great snow-mobiles but the gas mileage they get really sucks from what I've seen.

I've been researching those old Mk2 VW's and they seem interesting. There's one for sale not too far from here with a 2.0l SOHC running 18 psi of boost...

[jackfrost]

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/27/the-volvette-tt-ls1-powered-740-wagon/What about older Volvos? Curb weight of a 240 is right at 3000 pounds. They have the aerodynamics of a strip mall but I wonder if a modern engine like an ecotec or 3800sc could make one into a miser. Thought?

like the Volvette?

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/27/the-volvette-tt-ls1-powered-740-wagon/

:rolleyes:

[matthimself456]

Well, like the Volvette but with half the cylinders, half the power, and about a tenth of the budget. Those original Volvo turbo 4-bangers are kinda cool and can be pretty fast themselves but efficient they are not.

[bnickel]

how about a mid-late 80's or early 90's toyota pickup, throw a turbo kit on the 22r and you'd be right where you want to be.

i've also always wanted to put syclone/typhoon turbo 4.3 in an el camino. mine would be a 70 elky but really any elc would do, maybe an 84-87 SS? plus you'd a have a parts hauler too.