Front end alignment & expensive wheels

[VenturaII]

From what I know a front end alignment requires them to attach something to the wheels. Is there machines that attach without scratching the wheels or do most people swap off to different wheels?

[shmoov69]

Did not scratch my TTII's a few weeks ago.
The barbs are teflon (or something like that) coated.

[MrQuick]

Most expensive machines will have a non metal barb or a teflon coated one as jimmy stated.

If your tires have a large curb protecting band you my have to deflate the tires then connect the sensor to the rim. Then inflate it to spec. Don't let your guy try to force them on.

[silver69camaro]

...or do it yourself at home! Only takes about an hour when you get the hang of it.

[Chewy72ss]

Some custom "rim" shops that do alignments will have the sensors mount on the outside of the tire, at the 9 and 3 oclock positions. I have never seen a shop use them, nor have I ever used them on a car, but I am positive that they are out there.

[slowcamaro]

...or do it yourself at home! Only takes about an hour when you get the hang of it.

x2. see hardcore sticky... then DIY alignment links.

[MarkM66]

I've also seen plates that bolt on using lug nuts studs, and extend past the wheels so the equipment can mount to those. Not sure if anyone actaully uses them though.

[DLinson]

I'm a mechanical engineer for Hunter and I design the wheel adapters to attach the sensors to the wheel of the car. Call around to different shops and ask if they have tire hook adapters for thier wheel alignment rim clamps. They use plastic covers over the rim studs and the tire hook adapter pulls the adapter tight against the wheel.

We also sell different types of rim studs that will reach in between the rim and the tire lip. The rim clamp adapter grips the outside of the rim. Just make sure the shop has the proper equipment. I'd go to a shop that deals with custom wheels alot since they will update thier equipment since they have a big investment in the wheels.

DIY alignment may get you close but it will never be as accurate as a computerized alignment machine. The computer will take into account the runnout of the wheel, steering wheel will be straight, you will get a good measurement of thrust line and adjust the front relative to the rear, etc. Our computerized alignment machines have an .01 degree resolution for toe and .1 degree for camber and caster and can be changed to .01 resolution if desired.

I'm biased on the computer alignment yes but it is a much more accurate way to measure.

Dennis

[silver69camaro]

I agree a computerized alignment is more accurate for caster an camber, but it's possible to be within .07 degrees for toe (each wheel) at home. At the tire bulge, the difference between .01 and .07 degree less than .015", and I don't believe people should think .015" is going to make a difference and is therefore worth spending $200 on. Obtaining .1 degree on both caster & camber is also easily done at home.

A good DIY alignment will also allow the person to adjust thrust angle at the rear, as well as making sure the wheel is straight. Many, many race teams (and I'm not talking about backyard NASCAR teams) do the alignment without a professional rack. It really does work.

IMO, professional alignment racks are very good for getting the very last mile out of a set of tires. For a set of tires that sees far more wear from slippage than toe scrub, DIY alignments are an excellent way to go.

Just my opinion.

[DLinson]

The tire bulge is not a very reliable place to take a measurement. We have done a lot of R&D to determine if the tire sidewall is a viable reference when measuring alignment. There is a lot of runout in the side wall as well as the sidewall flexes and moves quite a bit. The rim also has runnout, even billet aluminum wheels. We gathered data from our tire balancers and found out that the average wheel runout was over .03". That doesn't include the runnout of the spindle and hub assembly.

We have worked with several race teams in the past including Bobby Rayhal. We even made a special set of alignment sensors for his Indy Car. They Indy car teams use strings down each side of the car and measure to the wheel with a caliper. The strings are positioned with machined bars that reference to the frame.

With the computer aligner, adding shims to adjust upper control arms is easier, there is also a program for adjusting ecentrics, and adjusting toe is easier. If you have the skills to do the alignment, then great. Most of my friends who are do it yourself car guys would have a difficult time doing thier own alignment.

Dennis

[HWYSTR]

I'm with Dennis, computer alignment is the way to go, espcially because of the variables and runouts. A DIY alignment will get you to the shop IMO.

I've heard that the adapters that go onto the wheel studs have a higher tollerance, due to wheel/hub variations. Also, from what I've heard, there are hubs out there that you cannot do a hub-centric alignment on, C4 and up are an example. This is something I learned when I went to ATS spindles...

[Young Gun]

interesting read! Thanks guys

[Marcus SC&C]

Accuracy is always a good thing (and for the record we have a Hunter alignment rack in the shop) but sometimes we have artificial accuracy that near as makes no difference. Align a typical muscle car to an accuracy level of even .001*. Then drive the car one mile on a public road with a few potholes,bumps etc. and check the alignment. You`ll have things off as much as .1*. Reset it and do it again and you`ll get the same result, change. These cars aren`t as precisely built or as rigid as some new cars,they twist and move around a little and that`s fine because they`ll generally remain within a certain range and they drive and perform very well within that range.
What`s much more important than getting the initial alignment accurate to the millimicron is rechecking the alignment after some miles have been put on new suspension components,springs etc. As those components take a set and get friendly with each other the alignment will often change quite a bit. I`d rather see a client do an initial alignment with a lower cost caster/camber gauge accurate to .15* or so then do it again in 1000 miles than have them get a uber accurate alignment at first then leave it go.
IMO the enthusiast is a lot better off buying a caster/camber gauge and learning how to use anyway. Then they can experiment and tweak the alignment to their needs,driving style,the occasional race or auto cross etc. The place with the computerized alignment rack isn`t going to do you any good at a parking lot autocross when you want to dial that extra -1.5* camber in.
It`s not a bad idea to get a computerized alignment done somewhere along the way but it`s no substitute for knowledge and the ability to do it yourself whenever and wherever you want. Mark SC&C

[hotrodf1]

Accuracy is always a good thing (and for the record we have a Hunter alignment rack in the shop) but sometimes we have artificial accuracy that near as makes no difference. Align a typical muscle car to an accuracy level of even .001*. Then drive the car one mile on a public road with a few potholes,bumps etc. and check the alignment. You`ll have things off as much as .1*. Reset it and do it again and you`ll get the same result, change. These cars aren`t as precisely built or as rigid as some new cars,they twist and move around a little and that`s fine because they`ll generally remain within a certain range and they drive and perform very well within that range.
What`s much more important than getting the initial alignment accurate to the millimicron is rechecking the alignment after some miles have been put on new suspension components,springs etc. As those components take a set and get friendly with each other the alignment will often change quite a bit. I`d rather see a client do an initial alignment with a lower cost caster/camber gauge accurate to .15* or so then do it again in 1000 miles than have them get a uber accurate alignment at first then leave it go.
IMO the enthusiast is a lot better off buying a caster/camber gauge and learning how to use anyway. Then they can experiment and tweak the alignment to their needs,driving style,the occasional race or auto cross etc. The place with the computerized alignment rack isn`t going to do you any good at a parking lot autocross when you want to dial that extra -1.5* camber in.
It`s not a bad idea to get a computerized alignment done somewhere along the way but it`s no substitute for knowledge and the ability to do it yourself whenever and wherever you want. Mark SC&C

Nicely put Marcus . . .

[JEFFTATE]

Nicely put Marcus . . .

Ditto.