Do-it-Yourself Alignment

[Tony_SS]

So I have the SC&C Stage1 installed and am ready to take it down for an alignment... but was wondering if there are any methods or a specific tool that can be used for a home alignment? I know I'll have to do my Malibu coming up soon and would rather invest in something I can do myself.

[Blown353]

It's easy to do yourself but takes longer than a computerized alignment machine... there are a couple threads on this forum under "DIY Alignment."

I water leveled my floor where the car sits using 12 x 12 vinyl floor tiles, borrowed some Hunter turnplates (for the 20 degree caster sweep), ran stringlines using 1" conduit front and rear ziptied to jackstands, and built my own aluminum caster/camber frame to hold my Mitutoyo digital level.

[Tony_SS]

Ah, there's that search function... ;) Thanks.. upon reading into it more, I might be better off standing over the guys shoulder and reading him some numbers. That should make his day.. lol.

[silver69camaro]

It's really a good thing to learn how to do yourself if you want to take the time. You'll have a good understanding of how things work, and adjustments in the future will be a snap.

I also use the string method and it works well. At home I don't use turnplates though, just pieces of carpet to allow the suspension to move while adjustments are made (my garage is tiled which makes it easier as well). My car is too low anyway to fit onto most alignment racks.

[greencactus3]

couple sheets of newspaper work pretty well too

[parsonsj]

I did a quickie home alignment, and then took it to an alignment shop. I came home from that $230 poorer, with a new scratch in my paint, and with a tie rod that loosened up and ruined the alignment anyway.

My quickie home alignment was within a couple of tenths of a degree and dead on for toe anyway.

So when I changed my front suspension to track mode, guess how I aligned it? :)

jp

[6'9"Witha69]

I did a quickie home alignment, and then took it to an alignment shop. I came home from that $230 poorer, with a new scratch in my paint, and with a tie rod that loosened up and ruined the alignment anyway.

My quickie home alignment was within a couple of tenths of a degree and dead on for toe anyway.

So when I changed my front suspension to track mode, guess how I aligned it? :)

jp$230!?!?! Holy crap I woulda pounded someone into the ground for fing up my car AND charging that much to boot!

Glad I do it myself.

[pitts64]

I prefer to have it put on the rack..

[parsonsj]

I woulda pounded someone into the ground for fing up my car Yeah, but you're 6'9". :)

What can I say? The shop charges $65/hour for "custom" work, and was the only person in town that would touch my car. I looked hard, too.

The fellow did apologize for the scratch (which happened when we were trying to get the alignment heads on the front wheels). It was the tie rod coming loose that really soured me on the experience. That and I got at least a thousand love bugs all over the car while crossing the St. John's River and and Lake Jesup.

As I say, I do it myself now.

jp

[jerome]

firestone has lifetime alignments for $150. That's what I planned on doing...ride height adjustment? no problem, go get it done again...and again...and again

[1969CamaroRS]

firestone has lifetime alignments for $150. That's what I planned on doing...

That is probably only to original manufacturer specs, not a performance alignment, I would check before laying down your green...

[parsonsj]

I'm sure even if it covers a performance alignment, it will be done by least experienced member at the place. I'd be skeptical you'd get consistent results.

jp

[Tony_SS]

That's the problem - you can't assume the guy doing the alignment know's what the heck he's doing.

Time is a rarity around here so I have to pick and choose my project. I think I'll pass on this one. The place I took it last was clean, careful with the car and didn't mind I was back there 'trying to help'. The guy was a little green, but the other kid knew what he was doing and helped as well. It wasn't their fault that 3" lowering springs and factory arms wouldn't shim out enough for a proper alignment.

The SC&C stage I is on now, so with plenty of adjustment, I don't think there will be a problem with setting it and forgetting it.

[Rick Dorion]

I do my own. The learning curve gets the time down to a reasonable interval. And, it's therapy time in the garage!

[paul67]

And just because its done a spec does not mean you will like driving it with thoughs specs so if you do it your self it can be tuned to your driving habits.

[Norm Peterson]

Never mind that if it takes you a couple of iterations to put things where you really want them . . . it still gets done for one price (and you do get quicker at doing the job).

Been DIY'ing my own alignments for about 25 years now, ever since I had to replace an upper ball joint in the '79 Malibu where the ball tore through its socket :eek: .

The Malibu is really easy to do as long as the tie rod adjustments aren't rusted solid or an upper control arm bolt doesn't start spinning in its hole. Either of those are easily fixed, just a PITA to have to break away from the real job and fix so you can get on with doing the real job.

Harbor Freight (among other sources) has a digital angle finder that's good to 0.1° on the display. That's good enough for almost any purpose. Around $40.


Norm

[6'9"Witha69]

firestone has lifetime alignments for $150. That's what I planned on doing...ride height adjustment? no problem, go get it done again...and again...and againMost lifetime warranties are voided by any steering and suspension work not performed by the shop or chain issuing the certificate.

[pitts64]

Delete

[Tony_SS]

Is it important to set Camber, Caster, Toe in that order?

It seems straight forward enough except when it comes to setting caster, seems like it would be tough to measure that.

Thanks Norm, I'm going to take a look up at the local HF for that angle finder.

[6'9"Witha69]

Pretty much yes to all. Just a little math for the Caster. Camber is easy and toe is super easy.

[parsonsj]

If HF doesn't have it, check out your local Sears. My Craftsman digital level wasn't more than $50.

[DAK]

Most lifetime warranties are voided by any steering and suspension work not performed by the shop or chain issuing the certificate.

It wasn't a problem when I replaced the outer tierods for a customer that had lifetime align at a major chain. But I did make sure I used plenty of locktight before I gave it a quick eagle eye align.:wasntme:

I'm a diy aligner. With the hunter 4wheel that we have at work.:)

[David Pozzi]

I use a "Decco" brand circle track magnetic bubble gage from Speedway Motors. It's around $100. Harbor Freight has turntables. Turntables are really nice for setting caster, you need to be pretty precise on turn angle when setting caster. If you have aluminum hubs, you can stick the gage on the brake rotor if you have spoke type wheels. or buy the spindle nut adapter.
David

[DarkoNova]

Definitely do it yourself. I spent the $150 at Firestone to get the Nova aligned. Took em two tries to get it aligned to factory specs, even though I gave em my own specs to use. T_T

Matt

[MarkM66]

How does something like this work for setting caster?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


It sticks to the hub? How do you get the car at ride height with no wheel on it?

[Tony_SS]

Mark, my thoughts exactly. I'd like to know as well..

[Tony_SS]

These are the arms I have. (Pass side shown) Is one tierod sleeve used to set camber while the other does caster? It seems that once camber is set, any adjustment made to adjust caster will effect the camber that was already set.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[stewy]

I have a guage exactly like the Deco pictured through Circle Track. I picked up the model with the 3/4" spindle nut adapter since most of the cars I work on are GM anyways. You just reomve the dust cap and thread it on. It works great!

[megaladon6]

you have to adjust both sleeves at the same time. it's a little annoying but not difficult. the camber won't change TOO much when you do the caster.

[David Pozzi]

How does something like this work for setting caster?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


It sticks to the hub? How do you get the car at ride height with no wheel on it?

The advantage of this unit is it reads high amounts of camber and caster which some basic units don't do. Race alignment is beyond what some standard equipment can read.
I have the Decco unit above.
With it on the hub, turn the wheel out 20 degrees, the bevel on the ends is at 20 deg so make that parallel to the side of the car, the little bubble at the end is to keep the unit level in rotation. With wheel turned out, set the middle scale at zero degrees using the small allen screw, - it functions as a thumb screw, no allen wrench needed.

Then turn the wheels out past zero to 20 deg and read caster, (a 40 deg change) again the end of the unit has a second 20 deg bevel you make parallel to the side of the car. A slight variation of turn angle will screw up your measurement, so being accurate in turn angle is critical to getting a good caster reading. If you don't have turntables, placing a string line or straight piece of metal along the side of the car on the floor under the gage will assist you in turning the wheel the correct amount. Placing a straight edge against the angled end of the gage also helps by extending your visual line and shows up angle differences much better.

Camber is read on the outer bubble scales, one for negative caster, one for positive caster. Circle track guys run a lot of positive caster on the LF wheel so this is needed.

On cars with wheels that cover the hub, I place it on the brake rotor, it works just fine this way. On some wheels I've made adapters to place the gage on. Other wheels can be put on the car if the regular wheel is preventing gage use. Hub access is probably this gage's short coming, but the magnet has a threaded bolt on it's end, and various adapers can be swapped on.

I thought about getting a digital unit but this is accurate enough for me, and it does not need to be calibrated like a digital one, plus it uses no batteries. Digital is accurate to .1 deg, this is probably accurate to 1/8 degree (it's marked at 1/4 degree increments) depending on how good your eyesight is, and how much time you take reading it.

I have a pair of aluminum "Toe Plates" I use to set toe-in. You can get by with a pair of straight pieces of steel bar stock elevated above the tire bulge. Use two tape measures, one in front, one in back of the tire. Tapes should be spread apart the same distance as the tire diameter.

I have aligned a car with no wheels on it. The car has to be blocked up with the suspension in the same position as if the weight was on it. We did this by removing the coil over shocks and placing turnbuckles in their place. The steering was centered and locked by machined setup blocks on the steering rack. You need to remember to remove them when done or the car will not turn at all! Another method of setting ride height is to remove the springs and just place blocks or adjustable height stands under the chassis and block the A arms into normal ride height position.
David

[DarkoNova]

So where do you buy these alignment tools? The only place I know of is SC&C, but I don't remember exactly what they have.

Matt

[Rubes]

So where do you buy these alignment tools? The only place I know of is SC&C, but I don't remember exactly what they have.

Matt http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/234_Chassis-Set-Up.html


...turn the wheel out 20 degrees, the bevel on the ends is at 20 deg so make that parallel to the side of the car, the little bubble at the end is to keep the unit level in rotation. When turned out, set the middle scale at zero degrees using the small allen screw, - it functions as a thumb screw, no allen wrench needed.

Turn the wheels in 20 deg and read caster...
Ah Ha...thats how you do it. I was always confused about which way to turn which way to do the math. So, on the left side you turn left-zero-turn right-read caster. on the Right, you turn right-zero-turn left-read caster. Did I get that right?

[Rick Dorion]

You got it! I bought turntables to ensure I get the 20 degree more precise.

[David Pozzi]

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/234_Chassis-Set-Up.html


Ah Ha...thats how you do it. I was always confused about which way to turn which way to do the math. So, on the left side you turn left-zero-turn right-read caster. on the Right, you turn right-zero-turn left-read caster. Did I get that right?

Yes, that's it. The gage will show if you have positive or negative caster, - as long as it's first zeroed with the wheel turned out. You are measuring the difference in angle between a 20˚ turn out and 20˚ turn in, a 40˚ sweep.

Turn angle accuracy is cricitcal for a good reading.
David

[Rubes]

There ya go confusing me again:slap:
Your original post said turn IN and zero the gauge. Now you edited it all to turn OUT and zero. Editing my posts is not fair!!!

You then go on to answer my question as yes, when it should have been no, based on the edits :confused:. I guess in reality, it don't matter if you zero turned out or turned in, as long as you can determine the relationship of those readings to true verticle and do the math. But zero in the wrong direction using that gauge, and it will give you opposite results of what you think (negative caster instead of positive).

[David Pozzi]

I went out to the shop and read the instructions and found I had it wrong, I should have remembered since I used it last week.

Rather than explain all that, I corrected my post to match what you said, "turn left and set zero", but quotes don't automatically update, so I changed your quote of my message to match my edited post. I was in a bit of a hurry and should have explained what I did.

It all reads correctly now but it IS different than yesterday.

Sorry for the confusion. Should we start over? :)
David

[DarkoNova]

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/234_Chassis-Set-Up.html


Ah Ha...thats how you do it. I was always confused about which way to turn which way to do the math. So, on the left side you turn left-zero-turn right-read caster. on the Right, you turn right-zero-turn left-read caster. Did I get that right?

Thanks, but holy crap that's some expensive stuff! I don't like that the purple camber/caster gauge only goes to +8 degrees of caster. My BMW has something like +9 or more stock, so I guess I'd need the digital gauge.

Still, $600 for the turntables. Wow. :scared:

Also, how do the caster/camber gauges attach to the wheels? I know it was mentioned that the dust cover comes off and it screws onto the spindle, but does it come with different adapters for different size threads? I see there's an adapter for "wide 5" wheels, but what the hell are those? :confused:

Matt

[neki67]

Turntables don't have to be expensive, you can actually make them yourself. Although I didn't make them myself, I have a set of turntables that will clarify they idea I have. Since a picture says more than a 1000 words, I would like to show you a picture but that won't be before this wednesday since I'm away from home till then. Let me know if you're interested and I'll make those pics and show 'm here.

[Blown353]

Harbor Freight has a set of turntables for $150 or so. I haven't tried them myself, but for a occasional home user they'll probably work OK.

I have 1 friend with a set of Hunter turnplates, and another friend with Longacre turnplates, so I usually borrow them. Eventually I'd like to get my own set, I keep an eye on craiglist and ebay for a good deal on a set of the Hunters. They're built like the proverbial fired-clay waste receptacle and should last 4.5 lifetimes minimum.

[Rick Dorion]

I paid about $100 on ebay for turntables. The shipping was a kileer though. They're great for my home use.

[David Pozzi]

Thanks, but holy crap that's some expensive stuff! I don't like that the purple camber/caster gauge only goes to +8 degrees of caster. My BMW has something like +9 or more stock, so I guess I'd need the digital gauge.

Still, $600 for the turntables. Wow. :scared:

Also, how do the caster/camber gauges attach to the wheels? I know it was mentioned that the dust cover comes off and it screws onto the spindle, but does it come with different adapters for different size threads? I see there's an adapter for "wide 5" wheels, but what the hell are those? :confused:

Matt

You can get by without turntables, but they do make the job easier.

To read more camber you can cheat the gage by setting zero at -1˚ or even up to -8˚ you just have to remember to add the extra degrees when you read it.

There are other gages that just press up against the rim. Look here for a digital one, you have to look up the caster reading in a chart: http://www.smartracingproducts.com/alignment.htm
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Wide 5 wheels are like Mobile Home wheels, or Volkswagen bug wheels. The pattern is wide and the brake drum is also the hub, so the pattern is very wide and the rim has tabs that have the bolt holes in them.
David

[Norm Peterson]

Thanks Norm, I'm going to take a look up at the local HF for that angle finder.I should also mention that I attached a short length of steel angle to it so I could span the full diameter of the wheel. And the steel angle lets you mount a small magnetic bubble level to help you keep the whole business close to vertical in side view.


Norm

[David Pozzi]

I just saw a new Summit Rebco alignment gage, it now goes to +12 degrees caster! What they did was move the zero point from the center towards the - caster side.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=REB%2D320%2D8920&N=700+4294925139+4294919397+4294857400+115&autoview=sku

[Marcus SC&C]

Sorry I`m late to the party guys! Doing your own alignment isn`t black magic or anything. Just 2 angles and a toe measurment. You can improvise with all sorts of stuff and get a pretty good alignment as long as you know what you`re doing and take your time. We`ve got a complete Hunter setup in our shop and honestly we don`t use it very often except to check the calibration of our portable units if we drop them. Our most used units are a Speedway magnetic caster/camber gauge Like the Deco in the pic someone posted. This on is great for cars with wheels that expose an iron or steel hub with a flat on it. Most modern aluminum wheels don`t so it only works on some cars. The other unit we use (most of the time) is an SPC Fastrax caster/camber gauge. It mounts to the lip of the wheel,either the inside (std.) or outside with adapters. It used soft silicon sleeves to prevent wheel damage and machined aluminum shoulders to register on the face of the lip for accuracy. The unit us super lightweight so it doesn`t take much tension to hold it in place securely. It measures camber to +/- 4* and caster to -4*/+12*. Toe adapters are optional. They`re basically fold out arms that will hold the "dumb end" of the tape measure in a consistent location while you read the "smart end". If you have a buddy to help you for a minute you can do without them.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
A few tips for folks setting alignment with SPC adj. upper arms. These things can save a lot of time! With shims each time you change one to adj. caster it alters both caster and camber. With the SPC arms generally speaking turning both sleeves the same number or turns in the same direction changes camber without changing caster. Turning them in opposite directions the same number of turns changes caster without changing camber. So you set your camber,then check your caster. Turn the wheels straight again while you adj. the caster and make sure camber stays the same. Check caster again. Adj. more if necessary. Once the caster is set,lock the adj. down because your camber hasn`t changed and that side is done! Do the other side the same way,set the toe. Double check that all the jam nuts and fasteners are tight and you`re finished. :)
Tricks for turntables and measuring that 15* or 20* on gauges that require it. 2 plates of sheetmetal with grease between them for excellent. You can also use pieces of linoleum or if your concrete is fairly smooth a folded trashbag or the bags the SPC arms come in. If your garage floor or driveway isn`t level you can also use stacks of newspaper,steel or linoleum to level the car up. It doesn`t matter if the floor is level it only matters if the car is. Some gauges can be adjusted for a non level floor but then the gauge won`t be accurate anywhere else like at an auto cross or at a buddys house. BTW don`t underestimate how much free beer and pizza you can earn by doing alignments for your friends! :twothumbs
All the gauges that make you turn the wheels in and out to measure caster have cuts on the end at that angle but it can be a little hard to judge. Drop a plumb bob from the lower body edge (the welded raised seam) along the rockers to the floor and mark it with chalk front and rear,they should be the same distance from the centerline of the car and parallel unless your car`s really funky. Measure out from those marks to roughly the distance the end of the alignment tool sticks out. Now snap a chalk line or make one with a long straight edge. It almost takes longer to explain it than to do it. When setting caster look straight down and align the angled facets on the unit with that line and you`ll be right on.
Mark SC&C

[Tony_SS]

Alot of good info here... Maybe we could sticky it?

[pitts64]

I agree, this would make a good sticky.