Surface rust treatment???

[Steve1968LS2]

Working on Track Rat and we've found a little surface rust under the thin layer of primer (that's been on there forever).

What's a good way to neutralize/treat this? Is my only option something like blasting with Walnut shells? Is there some sort of chemical solution?

Also, what about POR-15?

Ideas.

[Chicken Coupe]

I recently used Eastwoods Liquid Rust Dissolver. Woo Hoo, worked really, really well. Se my posts on Chevelles.com

[cammerfe]

I've had good experience with POR-15. But don't get it on yourself. It has to wear off!!
KenS from Ben's Place

[carguy502]

POR-15 is great, but I would do the walnut shells. If the rust is localized, rust mort is a cost effective and actually works.

[bretcopsey]

Two words.

Phosphoric acid.

check out the pictures http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2285825

[1969CamaroRS]

Good experiences here with Por-15 as well. The prep is pain but once you have it down that stuff doesn't come off.

I did a test and it took almost a week in a hot tank to get it all off some suspension parts, sold me on it.

[ProdigyCustoms]

If it is surface rust on the outer body, DA it with 180, Rub it with Ospho, Neutralize it very well with water, High pressure air dry it, DA and polish the metal with 180 and DP90 on top. Been working for upteen years.

POR is for lazy people that do not want to prep the metal!

[jb442]

Is there some sort of chemical solution?
It's got a funny name, but I've used PickleX-20 on bare metal to keep it from rusting. It seems to be similar to other phosphoric acid based metal-preps (color & smell), but it must have something else added. Here's a quick quote about their product: "Picklex®20 provides a combination of a surface cleaner, 100% rust converter, rust inhibitor, primer, a protective coating and a metal surface conditioner, all in one step." Just Google "PickleX 20" and you'll find it. Hope that helps!

[Alchemist]

I would suggest you go to your neighborhood auto paint supply and ask them what they have available for treating rust.

Basically, you should identify how much rust you want to address. If you continue to find more rust underneath the primer, it is highly advised to remove the paint to the metal.

Corrosion/rust must be treated/neutralized with some sort of chemical treament or media blasting. Then apply a good quality epoxy primer (read the product/tech sheet) applying enough of the epoxy material to ensure you have enough DFT (dry film thickness) when it cures to do its job.

Note: every paint product has a minimum DFT requirement to hold up to what it was designed for.

I've use POR15 years ago to address rust issues on the exterior body panels. A month or so later the topcoat deliminated in large sheets. I called the POR15 tech and he said that I didn't scuff up the POR15 well enough! What I found humorous is that I spoke with this same tech to get info on what was needed to topcoat POR15 - which was to scuff the POR15 with a 3M red scotchbrite pad! Well - this happened about 10 years ago. Now they've developed a "system" which requires that you use their "etch primer" over the POR15 prior to topcoating.

If you decide to use POR15 - I highly suggest you do your "due diligence" and research/call POR15, gather all the info you can before making the decision to use this product over the body panels and having to topcoat it with color.

Just a suggestion - thanks!

Alchemist

[astroracer]

POR is okay for frames but trying to do body work and finish coat over it will be impossible.
If it's just surface rust I would recommend following what Frank said...
What kind of old primer are we talking about? If it is laquer primer you may want to D/A the whole car and put it in DP90. Laquer primer is not a sealer and the metal will rust under it if left un-top coated...
Mark

[Steve1968LS2]

We are taking the car down to metal since there's so little paint/primer on the car.

It's just a tiny bit, small pits in the metal. Would rather not blast it, so I was looking for a chemical solution to the problem.

A picture:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Steve1968LS2]

What about this stuff:

http://www.kbs-coatings.com/KBS-RustBlast_p_1-29.html

[indyjps]

spot blast gun, Im sure you could find a better one in the Eastwood catalog or something similar, I have this one and use it pretty regularly instead of a wire wheel.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95793

[1969CamaroRS]

Could always just get an angle grinder and a wire wheel cup and have at the rusties, not sure how that would come out on a body panel thou.

[Air Daddy]

If it's just surface rust, Naval Jelly (Phosphoric acid) with steel wool works well, is easy to use and cheap.
Then get a good coat of Epoxy primer on it. I recommend Southern Polyurethanes (SPI).
SPI has some of the best paint products on the market today. It's a nice small company with outstanding service.

The cool thing about epoxy is that it's the closest thing to E-Coat you can put on metal, and it seals the metal from the atmosphere, you can literally shoot the epoxy over the rust and it will seal the rust. We shot over some flash rust on a hood of an old beater truck over two years ago and even today there is no sign of rust. (I'm not recommending leaving the rust!)
Check out SPIs web site and message board. Really good people over there.

Hey Steve, you should give Barry Kives at SPI a call and tell him who you are. He ownes SPI and has worked with the guys at Year One. I'm sure he would love to chat with you.
(770) 720-6986

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
http://spi.forumup.org/index.php?mforum=spi

[Sparky67]

If the metal is pitted then it is best to wire wheel it out. I prefer to use a Dotco right angle (mini) die grinder. http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/cooper-power-tools-807/quality-tools-for-the-energy-industry-4517/page-6.html
Be sure to have safety glasess and face shield on, because a wire wheel is not supposed to be used with an air die grinder, but it leaves the metal clean of rust.

Recently we found a small pit in my door, so we got rid of the rust and then filled it with brass and used duraglass to protect the metal.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

[Steve1968LS2]

If the metal is pitted then it is best to wire wheel it out. I prefer to use a Dotco right angle (mini) die grinder. http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/cooper-power-tools-807/quality-tools-for-the-energy-industry-4517/page-6.html
Be sure to have safety glasess and face shield on, because a wire wheel is not supposed to be used with an air die grinder, but it leaves the metal clean of rust.

Recently we found a small pit in my door, so we got rid of the rust and then filled it with brass and used duraglass to protect the metal.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

It's lightly uniform over most of the surface. Thats why I was looking for a chemical process. Your idea sounds great for a limited area.

[Sparky67]

It's lightly uniform over most of the surface. Thats why I was looking for a chemical process. Your idea sounds great for a limited area.

I am not sure you mentioned on the type part that you are removing the rust. Anyway, my body of my 67 Camaro was alkaline chemically dipped and e-coated. It looked great, but we found some bad spots underneathe the undercarriage and traditional sanding methods pose quite a problem. If the metal is pitted then it is the best tool that I found in removing rust. I also used it on the DSE subframe after it was mig welded and the welds needed to be clean before lead was applied.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

[bbnova]

Picklex 20. Follow the directions to apply, then epoxy prime.

Best solution IMO.

[scogin918]

What if it is in a hard to reach area like the inside of the door all the way at the bottom?

[Taylor1969]

What if it is in a hard to reach area like the inside of the door all the way at the bottom?

For that I would put POR Metal Ready into a spray bottle (mixed with water to the right amounts) and spray it.

[Chicken Coupe]

What if it is in a hard to reach area like the inside of the door all the way at the bottom?

I used Eastwood's Rust Dissolver, a small submersible pump, homemade catch basin to test, worked great. I am awaiting my 5 gal and enlarging the basin, getting a larger pump. My test proved it worked now I need to increase the volume to address removing the remaining rust in the hard to get places.

Here's a link to my post:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228738

[Sparky67]

What if it is in a hard to reach area like the inside of the door all the way at the bottom?

Have the doors alkaline dipped and e-coated. There is several companies with tanks big enough to do parts. Although, only few companies have e-coat tanks for a body. I contacted PPG and they sent me a list with e-coat customers that had appropiate size e-coat tanks.

Jeff

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's some of that surface rust I mentioned that was under the primer. Not good to let a car sit so long in primer. Our guess is 10 years maybe. Also, there was almost no paint on the car. Just primer. We also feel this car had a vinyl top at some point due to the pattern of the pits in the roof. Other area is the top of the rear quarter and the wheel well lips. In other words horizontal surfaces where water can sit on the primer.

Going to try the RUST BLAST stuff, will give a report back about it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Sparky67]

Here's some of that surface rust I mentioned that was under the primer. Not good to let a car sit so long in primer. Our guess is 10 years maybe. Also, there was almost no paint on the car. Just primer. We also feel this car had a vinyl top at some point due to the pattern of the pits in the roof. Other area is the top of the rear quarter and the wheel well lips. In other words horizontal surfaces where water can sit on the primer.

Going to try the RUST BLAST stuff, will give a report back about it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Asked the question to my bodyman that has 56 years experience in doing bodywork on cars. He recommends to either blast it off or wire wheel it off with that mini air tool. He has had problems with stripping cars with aircraft stripper or any chemicals in the past. As soon as he would paint a car, then few months later it would bleed back through the paint job. As long as you start with bare metal then you don't have any problems.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro