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Mean 69
02-11-2005, 03:09 AM
I am running into some strange issues trying to bleed out an S10 m/c on my car. This is the unit with the famed quick take up feature, and I'd have to guess that this may be part of the problem. I know lots of folks are running this unit successfully, and really like it, does anyone have any specific experience with bleeding? I have tried vacuum bleeding, the rears seemed fine, but I could not pull much fluid through the fronts, so I asked my shop assistant (otherwise known as my wife, and it cost me dinner too) to do the old pressure bleed deal by exercising the pedal.

Help?
Mark

Conekiller13
02-11-2005, 07:33 AM
What calipers are You using?

Hydratech®
02-11-2005, 07:36 AM
Hi Mark - how did this thing behave while you were bench bleeding it? (you DID bench bleed it first, right?). My favorite way of bench bleeding any basic type of mc is to clamp one of the mounting ears of the mc firmly in a vise, install port PLUGS into the ports, fill the mc with fluid, then start gently stroking the mc piston in / out about 2-3 inches. Resist the temptation to stroke the piston ALL the way in for a few reasons. Stroke the mc a few times to get the ball rollin', then take a small hammer and tap the mc casting a few times, as this gets the small "champagne" bubbles inside to break free of the casting / internal parts - this seems to help quite a bit on fresh calipers too. Gently stroke the mc as described above, tapping the casting a few times arbitrarily during the process. Watch the ports inside of the reservoirs, as you should be able to see the air pockets / bubbles through the fresh clean fluid. You may find that a few very short strokes done repetitiously will help coax these air bubbles out, usually only requiring a 1/2" to 3/4" of stroke in relatively rapid succession. Keep on working until you no longer see any signs of air bubbles in the small ports at the bottoms of the reservoirs, and the mc piston gets immediately firm when pressed in (as the fluid has no where to go with port PLUGS in place). Once the mc piston cannot be pushed in, you know that you have successfully finished your bench bleed procedure.

NOTE: Don't even bother trying to install the mc onto the car until it behaves properly as mounted in the vise during bench bleeding, as it won't do any better on the vehicle either.

Cool tip: Next time you plan on swapping mc's, cap the lines the minute you disconnect them from the mc with small rubber vacuum caps. Next, swap out your "old" mc with the "new" properly bench bled mc. Grab a large terry cloth towel to catch any and all possible brake fluids and position it properly under the area of the mc. Remove the mc lid, top it off as much as possible, then remove the mc port PLUGS. Fluid will start dripping now, so work quickly. Yank the vac caps off of the lines and connect them to the mc LOOSELY (about 2 turns from being fully seated). Let the lines drip for a little bit, as you will most likely see air bubbles gurgling out of the line connections. When nothing but clear fluid is coming out, tighten down the line connections. Next, hop in the car and pump the brake pedal firmly, but slowly, a few times. If you have a good firm pedal = your done! No need to bleed the entire brake system, as the only air in the system was allowed to escape at the brake line / mc connections. If you feel that it could still use some bleeding, try to bleed at the line connections first before going into bleeding the whole system. Think about it - there is no air way down in the lines or calipers... If you need to "do the whole car", I recommend that you open all 4 bleeders simultaneously, letting it gravity bleed while carefully monitoring the fluid level in the mc (don't let it run dry, or you will have just shot yourself in the foot!!!). Refill the mc a couple / three times during this procedure, then close up all of the bleeders. This usually = success! If you still aren't confident that you have all of the air out, THEN enlist the services of the wife (knowing that it will cost you what it does)... :lol:

Mean 69
02-11-2005, 08:45 AM
Wow, that is terrific input, thanks Paul (as usual). I didn't go the extra mile on the bench bleed, I'll give it another shot today and see how your method fares. Plugs, eh? I have always used the silly little hose thingies that put the fuild back into the reservoir.

Muchos gracias,
Mark

P.S: I am running C4 PBR's with the matching single pot PBR's in the back. And yes, I know that pedal effort is going to be high, this is temporary until I replace the brakes all together.

Hydratech®
02-11-2005, 09:46 AM
We have seen a change from the usual supplied bleeding hoses to port plugs in most replacement master cylinders commonly available at the parts stores too. It's almost funny (not!) when a customer calls and inquires about the (old school) bleeding hoses, as we supply master cylinders to the customers with clear instructions on how to bench bleed the mc's using the superior SUPPLIED port plugs. This immediately tells me that the customer has not read the instructions, which of course are designed to save them headaches. The largest reason for the change from the hoses to plugs is that you conclusively know you are done bench bleeding the mc when you can no longer stroke the mc piston inward vs the hose method which will only allow a (possibly false) visual confirmation...

Alternately, I will use my fingers as "check valves" on the mc ports while bench bleeding (!?). This allows fluid pressure to build against my finger tips when I push the piston inward, to where I then back off of the ports slightly and allow the fluid to come out, then re-apply pressure to my finger tips to close the ports (when stroking back out) to prevent any air from sucking back in. This allows you to really feel what's going on, especially when a particular mc is being a little troublemaker.

David Pozzi
02-11-2005, 01:28 PM
The trick to the "Quick Take Up" type S-10 master cyl is to make sure you allow time for the rearmost bore to refill thru the special valve in the rear reservoir port. Allow 30 sec minimum to one minute for each time you pump the pedal. The forward port does not have the special valve.

If you can't get fluid out of the bleeder, most likely you need more refill time between pumps.

Mean 69
02-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Something just isn't right. I agree that there is "something" going on with the firewall side port. But, the only thing that I see that it can re-fill through is the hole in that particular port? I have bench bled the nuts out of the thing, using Paul's recommendation, with the caps on the outlets instead of the hoses I have used in the past. No question, is is working against the caps, I can only get about 1/2 - 3/4" of piston travel before it stops. However, that translates to significant pedal travel before it stops, when installed on the car (I tried to see the pedal response before I hooked the lines up, caps still on). When it finally compresses, the pedal is solid, just like it should be, but this is after several inches of travel, which is unacceptable.

I'll try the waiting period thing. Heck, I'll try anything, do you think doing this standing on my head would help?

By the way, I have heard people talk about a small bore Mopar M/C that seems to work pretty well, it is the newer modular type with a plastic reservoir, but I have no clue what it is from. Any info?

Man, what a pain. At least it is raining today!

Stay tuned,
Mark

Edit: I just re-read Paul's original response. Looks like I wasn't done with the bench bleed. Perhpas I need lessons in following instructions.

dennis68
02-11-2005, 02:35 PM
The small Mopar m/c is available through Summit I beleive pretty cheap. Not sure of the application (some Chrysler tech huh)?

fuzzyonion
02-11-2005, 03:53 PM
84 Laser, Aries, same master, 21mm
95 Acclaim w/ 14" wheels, 22mm
95 Acclaim w/15" wheels, 24mm

I think all use 2 standard size 3/8x24 ports for 3/16 line and were used on a variety of disc/drum and disc/disc cars... and are available with or without resivoir.
They all look very much like this.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/02/34157-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/02/305646-1.jpg
Whether or not one would work for your brakes I couldnt really say. Looks like rear port=front brakes, like the s10.

I've had to resort to pressure bleeding on the QTU masters, but a good bench bleed and gravity bleed usually works, as stated.

Mean 69
02-11-2005, 04:19 PM
Uncle. I give. White flag. I cannot get the darned thing to pressure up correctly. I don't know if it is a faulty seal or something, or what, but I have had it. I waited a minute between pumps, and it didn't change one bit from the previous state. I was at it for well over half an hour, nothing that easy should take that long.

I looked back a thread on Team Camaro from years back and referenced a 21 mm bore unit from a 85 Mustang 4 banger. They have one at the local Pep Girl's parts store, I am going to give it a try. If the S10 unit is this much of a pain now, I am not going to deal with it between race sessions if I boil the fluid and need to bleed. My life is too short!

Thanks for the tips guys, I will post results so that folks in the future can learn from the experience.

Mark

David Pozzi
02-11-2005, 09:37 PM
Mark,
Are you using a manual or power system?
FYI
On my wife's 73 Camaro with baer Track kit, I tried a manual brake setup and started with 15/16", then tried a 7/8" then 13/16". I'd go one size smaller but cant find one. Early 70's Fords use small bore master cyls. the Monza MC has less stroke than the Ford MC's.

fuzzyonion
02-12-2005, 09:35 AM
David, you might have to go metric on the master if you want a 3/4. The 2nd gen has a lower pedal ratio than the 1stgen, so I'm not all that surprised it is a little stiff with a 13/16".

The Ford Festiva had a horizontal flange 3/4" master.
It might have bubble flare fittings, and it might not have the stroke you need. I think it is a QTU though.

The Volvo 240 series also has metric fittings and has a dual bore master (not a quick take up). It was designed for 2piston 38mm fronts and single 38mm rears.
But the secondary piston is only 15mm. I think that's the one for the front brakes. The primary is 22mm.
15mm might make your front brakes kind of touchy. I don't know. I have seen one on a Pantera and the guy likes it. He used an adapter that came with an SVO master for the Pantera, so it should have the same or similar flange spread as the american masters.
I cant seem to find any other 2 port 17-19mm masters which have a horizontal flange and sufficient stroke. There's gotta be one out there though.
The Volvo master can come with left ports or right ports.

Mean 69
02-12-2005, 10:45 AM
So here's one for you, guys. I just picked up a Ford unit, which is alledgedly a 21 mm bore. It looks like it might fit the bill pretty well. It has one reservoir larger than the other, and I always thought that the larger section was for the front brake. On this one, the larger fitting is on the larger reservoir, towards the firewall side. Backwards from what I would have thought? Which is front, which is back?

By the way, the part number is Cardone 101907, it is for a 85 Mustang (other years too), 4 cylinder deal. It has a deep pushrod hole for a manual deal too.

Thoughts?
Mark

fuzzyonion
02-12-2005, 11:13 AM
The large resivoir is for the front brakes. Fitting sizes dont always determine placement. That is a myth. You will probably have to buy adapters or change line fittings.
Fords and Chrysler almost always run the front brakes out of the rear resivoir, opposite of most old iron GM.

The front circuit will usually have more available stroke. Sometimes you can see this by looking at the port placement.

Mean 69
02-12-2005, 02:53 PM
The front circuit will usually have more available stroke. Sometimes you can see this by looking at the port placement.

That is clearly the case with this unit, which made me further question the fittings deal. Thanks for the info, hopefully I will be able to fit it all up.

Mark

gen3bu
02-12-2005, 04:51 PM
there has to be someone on this site with the ability to make a custom m/c and all of its parts. someone just needs the motivation. i would also like a 3/4 bore m/c for my 79 malibu, it will have stock c5 brakes on all 4 corners, adn i would like to make the brakes manual.

kevin

gauder
02-12-2005, 06:26 PM
Mopar master is same as Strange, or so Bear's Performance in Canada tells me.

fuzzyonion
02-12-2005, 09:28 PM
The Malibu might be okay with the C5 and a 13/16....
Mr. Pozzi, that Baer track kit on your wife's '73, that has the 38mm C4 calipers does it not? ...or is the Baer kit the larger C5's? I had been assuming it was the smaller piston ones.

Those Mopar masters are not QTU, if anyone was wondering, despite their appearence.

I'll see if I can come up with a suitable 3/4" master....

Hydratech®
02-13-2005, 08:00 AM
Here's the 3/4" bore GM based manual mc that you're looking for:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/02/75monzamc2-1.jpg

This is a 1975 Monza manual brake spec 3/4" bore mc. It utilizes the GM based stud centers, conventional GM port sizes - NAPA is still showing availability on these from what I'm seeing.

The boot and manual rod should be easily removable, providing the necessary deep hole for the manual brake pushrod for use on the 1st gen F-car.



The Cardone / NAPA reman number is 10-1498 (Wagner illustration / number shown above)

fuzzyonion
02-13-2005, 09:50 AM
That's the Monza master. It might work. It has a pretty short stroke and was made for even smaller brakes than the Mopar ones. It also has a nearly equal volume split. I was trying to find something which operated close to the same volume calipers as the C4 calipers but had no luck.

I guess this goes with any master, but, make sure front pressure doesn't stop rising or rise slower than/before the rear when installed, and make sure neither bottom out before 'panic stop'+ pressures are reached... should be ~1500-2000psi on the high side err with the C4s (on paper).
At least this is near as I can figure. Just want people to be safe.

David Pozzi
02-13-2005, 10:19 PM
The Malibu might be okay with the C5 and a 13/16....
Mr. Pozzi, that Baer track kit on your wife's '73, that has the 38mm C4 calipers does it not? ...or is the Baer kit the larger C5's? I had been assuming it was the smaller piston ones.

Those Mopar masters are not QTU, if anyone was wondering, despite their appearence.

I'll see if I can come up with a suitable 3/4" master....

You are correct, they are small and require a smaller bore master cyl.

AND you are correct the Monza style MC has less travel.
Thanks for the good info on Master cyls.

MarkM66
02-14-2005, 10:37 AM
Mark, with your C4 front set up, what are you running for brakes in the rear? Before the hydroboost, were you running manual? If so, what master cylinder were you using? Thanks.

Mean 69
02-14-2005, 04:06 PM
I run the matching single pot PBR floating calipers in the back, with a 12" x .810" rotor. I did run it manual prior to the boost unit, but never found a setup that I liked for the street. I had issues with the Ford M/C that I bought, I think someone mixed up a couple key parts during the rebuild, because the piston seal is beyond the fluid inlet, it would never get fluid into the darned bore. Very frustrating. I have one of the Monza 3/4" units coming tomorrow, I will give that a try.

It is getting pretty close to brake overhaul time, I am getting a bit tired of this.

More to follow,
Mark

Salt Racer
02-14-2005, 04:36 PM
Mark,
Can't you go down to a part store and have them replace the Ford M/C? (assuminng you bought it locally) Wouldn't hurt to try another one since you've already made lines and all necessary modifications.

3/4" bore M/C might feel too touchy as well.

Mean 69
02-14-2005, 05:25 PM
I could have, except that the bolt pattern to mount to the firewall was "slightly" different, meaning I had to break out the drill and carbide burr to elongate. They'd probably never notice, but.... To be honest, after the couple of hours making nice new lines to cut it in, then finding the bolt issue, then learning that the stupid thing would never have worked for other reasons, well, it is a miracle that the M/C did not find itself in orbit, having served as a mild stress reliever.

In the meantime, I tried a 1" unit all over again, with the Carbotech pads. No luck, the pedal effort required to really get after things was pretty high. I might try it again tomorrow, thinking that bedding down the pads might help a bit, but it is pretty clear that the large-ish bore units aren't the ticket (as we all thought anyway). Anyway, no way this would work on the street in a panic situation, might be okay on the track if track pads were to temp, etc.

This is really not fun, very clear that Paul's business is solving an issue that is otherwise a PITA.

Mark

gen3bu
02-14-2005, 05:33 PM
do you guys have a pert number/application for the 13/16 unit that matches the c5 brakes for a manual setup.

btw - not trying to hi jack your post, just seems like the right place to ask this.

kevin

68protouring454
02-15-2005, 04:23 AM
why not adapt the c4 mastercylinder? bet that would work
i have c5 13 inch for my 68 and i bought a hydroboost that paul set-up to use the c5 master, should be no question mybrakes ahould work, as it will be using the same c5 master, goodluck
sucks don't it mark!!
jake

MarkM66
02-15-2005, 10:16 AM
Mark, I inted to run the same brake set up as you're currently running.

C4 front, 93-97 Camaro rear.

I want to run in manual mode just not sure what m/c to try.

These guys recommend a 1" m/c from a '67-76 vette. So I was going to try that.

http://touring-classics.com/accessories.htm

Mean 69
02-15-2005, 10:58 AM
Don't waste your money on the 1" unit, I tried it yesterday, no luck. This is the mid-year vette unit for four wheel discs. I am running some stickier pads in the car too, but it just did not give adequate street manners. I am going to try a Monza unit today, part should be here in a shoprt while, and I will let folks know how that works out. This is really becoming a pain.

Mark

fuzzyonion
02-15-2005, 11:24 AM
Pretty sure the larger C4 and C5 units ran a higher pedal ratio. A combination that works on one car doesn't mean it will work on another, esp going to manual brakes.

The older C4s ran a 7/8". That might be okay with some good pads.

SHANE 73Z
02-15-2005, 01:58 PM
Hey guys,

I will be swapping to C4 front & rear calipers this year and this is what I will be using:
http://cncbrakes.com/cncbrakes.com-asp//sra.asp?grp=sra&subgrp=d&series=240&subseries=

This is a dual master w/bias bar setup that adapts to the stock pedal. They are available in the following bore sizes:

5/8", 3/4", 7/8" ,1" & 1 1/16"

For the C4 calipers I was recpommended to use dual 3/4" masters. This recommendation came from John @ Johns Mustangs who is a CNC dealer. This was also confirmed by Davids comments on his wifes second gen.

Shane

fuzzyonion
02-15-2005, 02:31 PM
That looks cool. Doesn't look real hard to make either. It uses 2 clutch masters.
3/4" is a good choice. It will work even better on a 1stgen than a 2nd because of the different pedal ratio.

Masters working in parallel instead of piggyback also gives a firmer pedal feel.

68protouring454
02-15-2005, 02:43 PM
paul at hydroboost told me the c5 master cylinder will work unreal on my 68 with the c5 master, i think he said he tweaked my internals on my boost, but i am not sure, pedal ratio?? thats just how high up the mc rod attaches to the brake pedal right??? why not change it?? i maybe wrong, let me know
jake

andrewb70
02-15-2005, 06:14 PM
Mark,

I am not sure if this helps at all, but I am using the S10 MC with good results. I have the front brakes plumbed to the rear port and the rear brakes to the front port. My front calipers are Wilwood Billet Superlite 6 piston and in the rear I have single piston PBRs. The system is manual. I started with a totally dry system and it took a while to get a firm pedal. I went around the whole car about 6 times before there were no bubbles from the calipers.

Andrew

fuzzyonion
02-16-2005, 10:00 AM
The Wilwood 6 piston calipers have more piston area making them a decent size for the s10 master with manual brakes at the 1stgen pedal ratio. Their combined piston area comes somewhat close to what the single piston s10 caliper has. The s10 ran the same pedal ratios as the 1stgen Camaro.

Jake, I was talking about manual brakes only. You can run a large master with power brakes if you have enough boost with no problem. It becomes more difficult with manual brakes. Some cars, like the majority of GM products, have to run a smaller master with manual brakes than with power.
The pedal ratio for manual on a 1stgen cannot be made higher without a different pedal assembly. Its already 6.2:1 anyway. To make it higher, you would need a longer pedal arm, which probably wouldn't fit well between the dash and the floor. I dont know, as I have never tried it.
It could easily be made higher for power brakes, as long as the pushrod has the correct angle.
C5 master and C5 brakes has only slightly less master:slave advantage than the C3 power brakes did. C3 used a dual diaphragm booster, but with manual brakes they used a smaller master. The pedal ratios were the same as a 1stgen Camaro, S10, and a few others. GM used 5.3:1 on most other cars and trucks.

It's all about mechanical advantage. Smaller slaves need smaller masters, or more leverage, or more boost. That's just the way it works. Stickier pads and larger rotors have an effect too, as does a strong leg.

You cant just take parts from one car and expect them to always work no problem on another. When they do, great. But when they dont, you should have an idea why before you start, not just guess. Cars have different pedal ratios, different power boosters, different weights, different needs, etc.

68protouring454
02-17-2005, 07:14 AM
so i am still covered with my set-up right?? hydroboost with the c5 master??? as you said i have boost so i can overcome the other issues going on,where as with a manual sytems it needs to be perfect in all aspects??
jake

Mean 69
02-17-2005, 07:34 AM
I will be swapping to C4 front & rear calipers this year and this is what I will be using:

I don't know how I looked over this, I didn't see it for some reason, but this is EXACTLY what I have been looking for. Do you have any more pictures of this? The Mustang bolt pattern is a bit different than the Chevy, but it is very most likely easy to modify the part to fit.

A small update, but important one. I tried the 3/4" M/C on the car yesterday, without success. At first I thought that I had a huge amount of air in the system, because the pedal would go clear to the floor with only moderate force, the pistons in the calipers were clearly reacting, but it was just not good. I tried three different methods to bleed the system, vacuum, pressure, and gravity. No way there is air in the system. I think what is happening is that the stroke of the M/C is insufficient to move enough fluid to overcome the piston retraction of the calipers. I still may be overlooking something, but I don't think so. I can tell you though, I have had it with the C4 stuff. All of this is a PITA, and I still don't get the thicker rotor like I really want in the front.

Brake makeover time in the near future. Very near future. Can you say "Alcon?"

Mark

MarkM66
02-17-2005, 08:25 AM
Mark, that's not good news. Not sure what I should use for a m/c, :hmm: . You're doing this testing in manual mode now right? Not with the hydroboost hooked up?

Is the S-10 m/c you're trying the 1" bore? That m/c and the 3/4" m/c, are booth of those for a front disc rear drum application? If so, wouldn't the rear port have a residual pressure valve in it?

MarkM66
02-17-2005, 08:41 AM
Mark,

I am not sure if this helps at all, but I am using the S10 MC with good results. I have the front brakes plumbed to the rear port and the rear brakes to the front port. My front calipers are Wilwood Billet Superlite 6 piston and in the rear I have single piston PBRs. The system is manual. I started with a totally dry system and it took a while to get a firm pedal. I went around the whole car about 6 times before there were no bubbles from the calipers.

Andrew

Andrew, is your S-10 M/C for an original power disc truck, or manual.

When looking for this m/c, I noticed two different types.

AC#18M310, with power, 24 & 36mm bore.

AC#18M309, without power, 31.75 & 24.0 MM cylinder bore.

I'm assuming you used the one "with power" since you plumed the rear port (the larger bore size) to the front brakes. If so, did it have the shallow pushrod hole?

Mean 69
02-17-2005, 10:06 AM
By the way, Andrew, how would you characterize the pedal effort with your system? The six pot Wilwoods are pretty close to the Alcon units in terms of piston area, so this is pretty darned close to what I expect from the new setup if I ran a 1" unit. Do you get decent rear braking performance? Proportioning valve?

Mark

fuzzyonion
02-17-2005, 11:30 AM
I had a feeling that Monza master would be too small :(

Yes Jake, IMO you are covered and will stop well.

All the GM QTU's run the front brakes off the rear port as far as I know. The step bore is for extra volume to the front calipers, and is part of the rear piston bore.
I have not yet seen a QTU with a residual valve in it. It must be in the distribution valve unit on those vehicles.

Mark, if the C4 calipers have a lot of piston retraction, you might try a 2psi inline residual valve, and a 21mm or 22mm Mopar master until you get the Alcons.
I'm really likin' that CNC setup Shane linked to though...

SHANE 73Z
02-17-2005, 01:29 PM
Sorry Guys,

CNC Brakes directed me to Johns Mustangs as a dealer. They seem to be very helpful thus far.

HEre is a link to it:

http://www.jmcmotorsports.com/catalog.asp?cat=early&cat0=&cat1=Brakes

They also informed me that they do have a setup specific for GM. I am impressed because MC changes down the road will be much easier.

Shane

Mean 69
02-17-2005, 04:16 PM
Gulp! Now I know why I was a bit suspicious of the brake unit, the price! $325, I'll ASSume that includes a pair of masters, so perhaps it isn't that bad?

I have a Wilwood pedal setup with a bias bar, etc, maybe it is time to look a bit deeper?! Hmmm.....

M

andrewb70
02-18-2005, 05:01 PM
Andrew, is your S-10 M/C for an original power disc truck, or manual.

When looking for this m/c, I noticed two different types.

AC#18M310, with power, 24 & 36mm bore.

AC#18M309, without power, 31.75 & 24.0 MM cylinder bore.

I'm assuming you used the one "with power" since you plumed the rear port (the larger bore size) to the front brakes. If so, did it have the shallow pushrod hole?

I got the "without power" model. I did not have the as much data as you guys do now. Looking at the specs now, I would probbaly go with the "with power". The MC has a shallow pushrod hole.


By the way, Andrew, how would you characterize the pedal effort with your system? The six pot Wilwoods are pretty close to the Alcon units in terms of piston area, so this is pretty darned close to what I expect from the new setup if I ran a 1" unit. Do you get decent rear braking performance? Proportioning valve?

The brake pedal feel is very nice. The effort is moderate and I am able to modulate the brakes very well at the point of lock up. Keep in mind that I am also running 14 inch rotors in the front and 12 in the rear. The rear brakes work great. The system is very well balanced, at least in my car. I have almost full pressure going to the rear brakes and the rear lock up just after the fronts. Attached is a picture of my rotor and caliper. Next to it is a 13 inch rotor from a Baer Track kit.

Andrew

Mean 69
02-19-2005, 07:45 AM
Now THAT is what I call a rotor! Is that 1.25" thick, or thicker? Was this from a kit that you bought, or did you piece it together? I bought a pair of Wilwood hats to start putting my stuff together, but it has a far greater offset than that one, maybe I didn't look hard enough at their catalog to find a shallower one.

So when are you moving out to California!?!? Chicago is nice and all, I grew up near there, but you can drive that bad monster all year round out here! Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

Mark

andrewb70
02-19-2005, 08:27 AM
That rotor is actually 1.38 inch thick. With the aluminum hat is weighed less than the 13 x 1.1 cast iron rotor. The hat is from the Wilwood 4th gen F-body kit. The rotor was made by Coleman. The whole system was put together by Precision Brakes company.

More details here:

http://groups.msn.com/projectgattago/shoebox.msnw

Andrew