Satan's "Lady Bug" [Archive]

454bug

06-05-2008, 07:26 PM

Hey guys.

Well, I have dove into this world of "Pro Touring" head-first! I have a unique project that is a little different (ok, maybe a LOT different) and I hope I don't turn any of you off working with a "foreign" car body (and especially one that is not considered a "performance" model)... The only thing about it that is foreign IS the body... EVERYTHING else is custom. With ALL traditional, good 'ole American products!

If the world can love a British car (AC Ace - Bristol) with an American Drivetrain (Ford) why can't there be a little love for a German version... I know this car is NOT anywhere as SEXY as a Cobra but hopefully there are enough pure Performance lovers in the house to appreciate the project...

If its not your cup of tea, I totally understand... You know that old saying, "You run what you brung"... Well, this is my ride and I am going to make the best of it...

If you didn't happen to catch my introduction you are welcome to get some background on the project in the intro thread, "Dare to be Different"...

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?43910-Dare-to-be-different

Here we go...

jerome

06-05-2008, 07:35 PM

this is an awesome project, can't wait to see updates...

trying to get my buddy to drop his ghia on a full frame, makes me want a VW project

Jerome

454bug

06-05-2008, 07:37 PM

Thanks to "MOTORHEADMIKE" for naming this project, "SATAN'S LADY BUG"... I think it has a nice ring to it...

Also, BIG props to ALLKAR for his AWESOME "chops" job (I learned this new term just the other day!) on my car. With just one short email to him I think he captured my thoughts on stance and color REALLY well...

Here is the "before" picture...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DragRaces126a-1.jpg

and here is ALLKAR's rendering of my proposed finished product...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/5020fd053d-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:02 PM

I don't want to re-hash too much what was already listed in the "intro" thread but since I decided to move the thread I will re-visit a couple of important points.

I have owned the car for the last 13 years. It has always had a "Pro Street" stance. The original car/suspension was built and set up in 1985. Therefore, VERY old technology (leaf-spring front suspension, SOLID dropped front axle, 1957 Chevy steering gearbox, 4-wheel DRUM brakes, 9-leaf "Super-stock" cut leaf-spring/control arm rear suspension, etc.).

My initial intent was to upgrade the front suspension to a Short/Long Arm (SLA) Independent Front Suspension (IFS) with an aluminum rack and pinion steering as well as 4-wheel disc brakes. These upgrades were to make the car safer to drive, shave some weight off the car, and possibly lower my e.t.'s at the drag strip.

This is the Art Morrison IFS that I just installed...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/I_F_S_CrossmemberKit-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:05 PM

Here are a few installation pictures... First, the "before" pictures...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/BugPictures022-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00932-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00938-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:06 PM

And here are a few of the upgrade pictures...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00940-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00944-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00946-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00948-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:17 PM

Well, mid-stream through these upgrades, I decided I was REALLY tired of my car's Pro-Street look (and the associated poor handling characteristics of these cars)... I have followed the "Pro-Touring" movement for a while now but never made the mental leap of converting my car to this genre...

Recently, I attended a function with a number of my car buddies and didn't have a car eligible to participate in the time trials being ran on Texas World Speedway's 2.9 mile road course. They were having all the fun and I was stuck watching from the sidelines... I am NOT one to just watch others... I NEED to be in the middle of the action!

Therefore, the transformation was on... Unfortunately, I had just purchased a number of items that weren't really right for this new desired setup. But I wasn't going to let that stop me. It's just money, right??? (I'm sure glad my wife doesn't come on this website!!)

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:19 PM

So, to get ready to go road racing I needed to upgrade the brakes that I just installed...

This is what I just installed (11-3/4" Rotors with Dynalite 4-piston calipers)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DL_BIG-1.jpg

This is what I will be replacing them with... (14" Rotors with Superlite 6-piston calipers)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/SL6_BIG-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:22 PM

To accomodate these new larger 14" rotors I was also forced to purchase new forged spindles designed for the larger rotors. They are 2" dropped just like the ones I had just installed but taller (better geometry and lower roll center) as well as 3X stronger (according to Wilwood). The call them their "Pro Spindles".

I placed the order for these today...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/spindle3_large-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:32 PM

With the new setup the hub-to-hub width was increased by 4" (improved scrub radius/bump steer/less camber change/wider track for stability/etc.). Also, I am increasing the front wheel width from 4" (skinny minnies) to 11". Therefore, I needed more fender clearance.

Luckily, VW bugs have fenders that are easily stretched because of their layout and design in reference to the rest of the car. Therefore, I ordered custom, 3" wider-than-stock fiberglass front fenders today.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/bfwswb2-1.jpg

I already had the 3" wider-than-stock fiberglass rear fenders on the car.

This should give the car a more balanced look, front to back.

In addition, the front and rear track widths will be closer to the same now.

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:34 PM

this is an awesome project, can't wait to see updates...

trying to get my buddy to drop his ghia on a full frame, makes me want a VW project

Jerome
Hey Jerome. Thanks a lot. It should be a lot of fun! Thanks for the encouragement!

454bug

06-05-2008, 08:47 PM

I need to upgrade the back brakes as well. I had just installed Wilwood 12.19" rear disc brakes with internal shoes for the emergency brakes with Dynalite 4-piston calipers...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DynalitePro-1.jpg

I will need to replace them with 13" rotors with internal emergency drum shoes with Superlite 4-piston calipers...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/sl4r_large-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 09:09 PM

Since I am going with the "Satan's Lady Bug" theme I have settled on Forgeline's ZX3R wheels. Front - 18"x11" and Rear - 18"x13".

I am pretty sure I am going with Black wheels. I have to decide between the "Matte" finish or the "Gloss" finish. I am also going to take Frank Serafine's suggestion to consider the "diamond cut" on the wheels as well...

If you have a glossy black and red paint job on the car I don't know if you would need the wheels to be glossy as well or not...

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOU GUY'S THOUGHTS ON THIS...

(You know I am shooting for that "sinister" look...)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/product_photoxlarge_image23-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/product_photoxlarge_image91-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/product_photoxlarge_image26-1.jpg

454bug

06-05-2008, 09:14 PM

The pictures on Forgeline's site are not EXACTLY how I would order them but these are all the examples I have to list here even though I would order them a little different.

Since I am "de-chroming" the entire car (to continue with that "sinister" themed look) I am sure I would powder coat the inner and outer rim lips as well as the center section with the same black color instead of having any part of them polished...

It is for this reason of "de-chroming" the car that I don't know if the "diamond-cut" would be the right thing to do (even though it looks real cool).

f1shman

06-05-2008, 10:36 PM

I really enjoy the look of the diamond cut wheel myself. I think it would look really nice on the car. Looks like you have a great build plan, I look forward to seeing more progress shots! :kewlpics:

rjsjea

06-05-2008, 11:28 PM

:drive1: cool build.....

Hellrace

06-05-2008, 11:53 PM

Awsome build man, this is going to be one fast wolksvagen :hail:

David Sloan

06-06-2008, 03:39 AM

I LOVE it!
I have a soft spot for old bugs as one of my freinds had one in high school. Man i wish i had pic's of it.
Cool project-i will be keeping up with this one.

Chewy72ss

06-06-2008, 04:08 AM

Definitely a different project. I think it's awesome. ALLKAR's rendering looks killer, and I think the diamond cut wheels would compliment the "sinister" and "different" approach very nicely.

Keep us updated.

Tony_SS

06-06-2008, 06:52 AM

Ray, how about these, with a semi flat tan color, and blacked out trim? Not all that 'mean' looking, but a subtle 'street fighter' look/vibe to it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/product_photoxlarge_image23-1.jpg

454bug

06-06-2008, 09:04 AM

this is an awesome project, can't wait to see updates...

trying to get my buddy to drop his ghia on a full frame, makes me want a VW project

Jerome
Hey Jerome,

Why don't you get your Ghia buddy to check out these pictures...

It might just get him over the hump!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/IMG_07731-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/IMG_07711-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/IMG_07851-1.jpg

454bug

06-06-2008, 09:06 AM

WS6

06-06-2008, 10:53 AM

wait a minute. Are you actually telling me AME makes VW parts? :)

This is going to be a cool project. fast bugs are wicked to me.

I do wonder though with as light weight as these cars are, why not ditch the heavy BBC and put in a lighter aluminum block. If handling is your focus now, this will help tremendously.

Restomod

06-06-2008, 11:14 AM

Cool project!! Where did the pics of the Giha come from???

454bug

06-06-2008, 11:30 AM

Here is my earlier post in my "introduction"...

"Here is the new motor I am building for the car... A Scott Shafiroff 582 cubic inch Big Block Chevy motor. It will have CNC-ported 335cc AFR aluminum heads. It will have a solid roller cam setup with Jesel Sportsman shaft rockers. Since I am aiming for a weight distribution (50% front, 50% rear) I have decided to spend the extra money for an aluminum block as well. I will trading up from 650hp (old motor) to 850hp with this new motor!! At the same time shaving roughly 200# off the front of the car.
It's truly amazing to me that a Big Block Chevy with a single plane intake, a dominator carb, and an air filter will still fit under the stock Bug hood WITHOUT a hood scoop... The ultimate sleeper!!! (Until you crank it up...)"

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/582_engine_classic-1.jpg

454bug

06-06-2008, 12:09 PM

I did consider an LS motor for this car... My buddy helping me with the chassis work is a small block guy... But I am a firm believer in, "there is NO substitute for cubic inches"... I am older... I am "old school" (nostalgic), etc...

Also, I don't think you will be able to make 850hp on pump gas with an LS motor without a blower, turbo's etc. and spending a LOT more money... And remember, I have a VERY confined work space to deal with as well... There are a lot of small block and LS motors in bugs... Not many big blocks. It does have a certain "wow" factor associated with such a massive looking motor... If you look at the companies building these "hot" naturally aspirated LS motors (Schwartz, Katech, etc.) they are asking anywhere between $22,000-$25,000 for one of their 700-730hp motors... I will be able to build this motor, all aluminum, 840hp, for roughly $17,000-$18,000... I had already purchased the CNC-ported 335cc AFR Aluminum heads, the Jesel "Sportsman-Series" shaft-mounted rockers, the CNC-Ported Edelbrock Super Victor intake, the Big's Stage-7 1050cfm Dominator last year. Therefore, I only needed to purchase the aluminum short block (with it's new solid roller cam) to complete my 582ci bbc.

You can see from the attached chart that with a complete aluminum big block motor (the ZL-1, 427ci)(460#) you are only roughly 20 pounds heavier than a LS-7 (440#). These numbers are published by Chevrolet. I looked at the two motor listings. You don't know if they are exactly "apples to apples" but they appear to be. I am more inclined to believe that my motor setup would be closer to 490-500#. Either way, I'll trade 50# or so for an extra 100-350hp any day!!! (These numbers are for a complete long block, carb/efi, intake, and exhaust manifolds. All the accessories weight would be added to these numbers.)

In our preliminary mock-up the other day we set 550# in the engine bay to mock up the engine/accessory weight and we were still able to have close to a 50% Front/50% Rear weight distribution on our 4-corner scales... The engine in the car is really set back far. The front crank pulleys are actually behind the front crossmember! That should work out just fine...

800 ft-lbs of torque vs. 500-600 for a hot LS motor... PURE JOY...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/ChevyEngineWeights-1.jpg

novanutcase

06-06-2008, 12:22 PM

454bug

06-06-2008, 12:24 PM

For the guys that haven't read my "intro" thread,

The old setup weighed a total of 3,000# with a full tank of gas (17 gallons). The weight savings goals are as follows:

AREA OF PROPOSED WEIGHT SAVINGS (pounds)
Engine-----200 (80# - Heads, 120# - Engine Block)
Radiator----20 (Aluminum 2-core)
Brakes------20 (Wilwood 4-wheel disc vs. 4-wheel drums)
Front End--150 (Art Morrison IFS vs. '57 Chevy gearbox, leaf springs, SOLID dropped axle, etc.)
Rear Setup--130 ("Super Stock" cut 9-leaf springs, heavy brackets, etc.)
Seats-------20 (Removal of Bench seat and replace with two lightweight racing seats)
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Sub-Total---(540) pounds savings

Additional
Weight------+40 (Additional Roll Cage Material weight)
__________________________________________________ _____
TOTAL------(500) POUNDS-TARGETED WEIGHT SAVINGS

454bug

06-06-2008, 12:25 PM

With the old setup weighing 3,000# that would get the car to 2,500#.
Add my weight (200#) to the car weight and the total should roughly be around 2,700#.
2,700# and 850 hp...
It should be interesting...

454bug

06-06-2008, 12:29 PM

My .02!

AWESOME Project!

Gotta be careful when you road race cuz it's REALLy addictive! LOL!

Ya might wanna consider some Fikse 5 or 5S wheels. I like the Forgelines you have but I think something a little more understated on the wheels will balance it off just right! Heck, just the fact that the bug will be 2 toned and the fenders will be wider than normal will be more than enough to set it apart!

Allkar? Can we see something like that?:cheers:

John
Hey John,

I am open to any suggestions on wheels! I was having a hard time finding companies that offered a 18"x12" wheel and then finding one that appealed to me... I would like to see what the Fiske wheels look like...

I hope ALLKAR can help us out. :twothumbs

454bug

06-06-2008, 12:59 PM

Cool project!! Where did the pics of the Giha come from???
Hey Restomod,

I pulled those pictures from a guy on the volksrods.com site.

Here is his profile. You can click from there to see his threads, etc.

http://www.volksrods.com/forum/member.php?u=867

Johnny Blaze

06-06-2008, 01:02 PM

awsome! just freaking awsome!

motorheadmike

06-06-2008, 01:12 PM

Ray,

Glad to help. ;)

Subscribed!

novanutcase

06-06-2008, 01:56 PM

Hey John,

I am open to any suggestions on wheels! I was having a hard time find companies that offered a 18"x12" wheel and then finding one that appealed to me... I would like to see what the Fiske wheels look like...

I hope ALLKAR can help us out. :twothumbs

http://www.fikse.com/index.html

Profil 5S

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/profil5s1-1.jpg

Profil 5

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/profil5-1.jpg

Check out their website for finishes!

John

454bug

06-06-2008, 02:12 PM

Sounds great! I'll check 'em out.

ALLKAR

06-06-2008, 02:57 PM

My .02!
AWESOME Project!
Gotta be careful when you road race cuz it's REALLy addictive! LOL!
Ya might wanna consider some Fikse 5 or 5S wheels. I like the Forgelines you have but I think something a little more understated on the wheels will balance it off just right! Heck, just the fact that the bug will be 2 toned and the fenders will be wider than normal will be more than enough to set it apart!
Allkar? Can we see something like that?:cheers:
John https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I don't know what is overstated about the wheels. I'm not a fan of all black wheels but, they really work on this car. Being a VW I think they have a EURO feel. The Fiske 5S are nice and look great on Jr's Camaro. Don't like the Fiske 5.

BTW John, I'm still voting for Orange.:cheers:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

novanutcase

06-06-2008, 03:24 PM

I don't know what is overstated about the wheels. I'm not a fan of all black wheels but, they really work on this car. Being a VW I think they have a EURO feel. The Fiske 5S are nice and look great on Jr's Camaro. Don't like the Fiske 5.

BTW John, I'm still voting for Orange.:cheers:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I don't think they are overstated as much as I think giving the car a more "muscley" look would be kind of interesting rather than a "sporty" look!

John

P.S. Color vote duly noted and cataloged! LOL!

454bug

06-06-2008, 08:06 PM

Well, I don't have all that "layering" down since I just bought the program yesterday but it gets the basic idea... I haven't figured out the layering yet (along with a million other things...)

Original:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/5020fd053d-1.jpg

Diamond cut:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/5020fd053d2copy-1.jpg

and the Fiske 5S:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/5020fd053d1copy-1.jpg

It's getting hard for me to get away from my original pick...

I agree with ALLKAR... they kinda work because of the European body style...

ALLKAR

06-06-2008, 08:34 PM

Damn! Wish I was that good after one day!!:twothumbs:twothumbs

blown9746

06-06-2008, 08:47 PM

That is awesome. Go the two tone with the black forgelines

skatinjay27

06-06-2008, 11:38 PM

i still think the first is the BEST!!!
the gloss two tone with the dark red and flat all black wheels look so evil!!!!

Mr.VENGEANCE

06-07-2008, 06:52 AM

that is one badass bug!

good to see another VW guy in here too.

Regan

06-07-2008, 07:27 AM

Wow this is awesome. Definitely go with the black rims, the 5S look out of place to me.

Nate K

06-07-2008, 10:02 AM

This thing is sick! I love it!

67SSDan

06-07-2008, 02:36 PM

Love it. Very cool project.

Dan

454bug

06-07-2008, 09:36 PM

Since I am using new length control arms, 3" wider fenders, MUCH wider wheels, and MUCH wider tires on the front of the car I located a "fitment" tool tonight. Proper wheel backspacing, tire width, and their associated clearances will be critical to figure correctly the FIRST time...

I just ordered this from Jeg's. There were two pictures on their site showing a plastic piece in the first picture and a steel piece in the second picture... I don't know which one I'll receive but either one should work just fine! Pretty cool tool for $90 bucks!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/76001201chartsmall-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/76001201-1.jpg

454bug

07-09-2008, 05:28 AM

Here are the new front fenders, rear fenders, and running boards I ordered last week... The front fenders are 3" wider-than-stock and rear fenders are 4-1/2" wider-than stock... I already had 3" wider-than-stock rear fenders but I had to purchase the wider rear fenders to keep the proper flow from front to rear. This is the only example pics I have of them on a car. This is actually a older model bug with the older-style headlamp buckets and tail lights... Mine are more modern looking and with my paint scheme the headlamp trim rings will be painted to match the fender color and continue with the "de-chromed", sinister look...

Other than the chopped top this will be the new look for my bug... It gives you a good idea of how low and wide the car should look... :evil:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/blue_front-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/blue_rear-1.jpg

My bug is a Super Beetle so the hood is actually wider than this bug's by a couple inches which should make it look even wider...

Smock67

07-09-2008, 05:49 AM

Dude you'll have the sickest bug i have ever seen thats for sure.

I too am voting for the first chop done of your car red black two tone, with the all black wheels.

Twin_Turbo

07-09-2008, 06:16 AM

Since I am using new length control arms, 3" wider fenders, MUCH wider wheels, and MUCH wider tires I located a "fitment" tool tonight. Proper wheel backspacing, tire width, and their associated clearances will be critical to figure correctly the FIRST time...

I just ordered this from Jeg's. There were two pictures on their site showing a plastic piece in the first picture and a steel piece in the second picture... I don't know which one I'll receive but either one should work just fine! Pretty cool tool for $90 bucks!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/76001201chartsmall-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/76001201-1.jpg

Don't have too high hopes, I have the same tool and it's not worth 90$. It's a pos plastic tool, flexy as hell and the "tire circumference" is a piece of coat hanger wire. What a joke. IMO shouldn't cost more than 20$

454bug

07-09-2008, 06:21 AM

Yeah, I got mine in and, needless to say, I wasn't impressed! Hopefully it will do the job. It is flimsy but if I take my time and get the dimensions I am looking for I should be okay. At $100, including shipping, the guy must have about 1000% markup on the "cost of materials"!!! I guess I am paying for all the "R&D" that went into the engineering of the piece... :hammer:

When my fenders come in I will be able to put it to the test.

WS6

07-09-2008, 05:55 PM

Those wide fenders are going to be cool.

chevelle19700

07-09-2008, 09:26 PM

cant wait

ill steez

07-15-2008, 03:28 PM

454bug

07-15-2008, 07:07 PM

i just thought i'd throw this idea out there... maybe a carrera rs-esque paint scheme with the side stripe.. and maybe instead of carrera it could read "beetle rs" or "582 RS" or "bad bug"... you get the idea.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/porsche911gt3rs-1.jpg

i figured you might be pretty set on the current photoshop, but other ideas and thoughts cant hurt! i kinda thought since you were planning on racing it, a more race inspired paint scheme might be kinda cool!

either way, i want updates!
That's some great ideas on the Porcshe paint schemes! I really like the blacked out orange GT3. That "de-chromed" look is what I am shooting for. Back in the early 1990's I had a '67 Chevy II with a 454 that was painted "medium blue" and I dreamed of painting it one of the Flourescent colors that were really cool back then... either orange (like the GT3) or lime green!!

To be honest, there are SO many things to do to the car prior to paint I haven't spent much time recently thinking about it...

454bug

07-15-2008, 07:18 PM

I have been making headway on the project. A lot of parts have been ordered. Waiting on them.

On a custom project like this when you make ONE change, it sometimes creates MORE problems!!

Since I will be running the car on road courses and competing in autocrosses I needed to create the lowest Center of Gravity as possible. Therefore, we removed the existing motor mounts and mounting pads from the frame rails. This is a picture of the existing motor mount pads.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC00945-1.jpg

454bug

07-15-2008, 07:21 PM

These are the new Speedway Motors motor mounts I'll be using.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/91018042_L-1.jpg

454bug

07-15-2008, 07:31 PM

We were able to drop the entire engine/trans combo 2" lower. That should really help the center of gravity... But... That created a few NEW problems! Now, the stock Hooker "Competition" Headers for a '67-'69 Camaro no longer work! The front pipe on the driver's side now hits the upper control arm in the back (just a little) and also the collectors are WAY too low to the ground...

Therefore, we came up with two solutions! First we have located a local guy that builds headers from scratch for about $600. Secondly, since we need just a slight increase in height to clear the back of the upper control arm I am taking the opportunity to graduate to the "Tall Deck" Big Block Chevy block. It has a 0.400" taller deck height. Between that and the custom headers we should be good to go...

With the use of the BBC Tall Deck instead of the Standard Deck I won't be buying a 582 cubic inch short block. Instead, I will be ordering a 598 cubic inch aluminum short block! I guess I can handle an additional 20 hp!!! (870 hp vs. 850 hp on PUMP gas)...

This thing should be wicked...

One more thing... With the standard 468 cubic inch motor the rotating assembly was externally balanced. Therefore, you have to run a "weighted" flexplate as well as a larger, 8" diameter harmonic balancer... With the lowering of the motor by 3" the harmonic balancer came in contact with the new crossmember right on the back edge. The drivetrain is set back really far in the car (for great front/rear weight distribution) but just not enough to clear the balancer. Luckily, all the bored and stroked kits for the BBC are internally balanced. When these rotating assemblies are used you don't have to run the larger 8" balancer. You run a smaller 6"-7" diameter harmonic balancer. Either one of these will clear the crossmember just fine. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

454bug

07-15-2008, 07:37 PM

I have a buddy's Tall Deck spare block that we will be fabbing up with this weekend. We will be welding in the new motor and trans mounting pads.

I'll post pics as we do the work.

SaturnVUEguy

07-16-2008, 07:35 AM

Holy crud this thing is going to be one hell of a ride! 870hp in a small car like this! I want to take a ride!

XTRMEASURES

07-16-2008, 10:04 AM

dude this is so crazy i love it. what are your plans for the interior, with what you doing to the outside it need to be something good.

454bug

07-16-2008, 10:54 AM

dude this is so crazy i love it. what are your plans for the interior, with what you doing to the outside it need to be something good.
There are a number of plans for the interior...

First, we will be cutting out the existing roll cage and replace it with a much more substantial one... More bars with better placement. We will be carrying bars from the main hoop to right above the rearend. I already have a cross brace under the dash but we are going to add bars from the downbars by the front windshield, through the firewall, and tie in right behind the radiator placement.

I have always been restricted to Non-NHRA Drag Strips because I didn't have a door bar running from my shoulder to my feet. We will be adding them. In addition, we need to re-configure the upper hoop to NHRA specs.

454bug

07-16-2008, 10:59 AM

Secondly, I have pretty much decided to purchase another fiberglass dash face panel and convert my gauges back to analog...

The jury is still out on this one...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/Scan-1.jpg

454bug

07-16-2008, 11:01 AM

Thirdly, I am installing a tilt-steering column. In the upright position, it will facilitate the ingress/egress (especially with the X-bars in place!). In the lowered position, it will be a much better "feel" while blasting around a road course or autocross track...

Fourthly, I am replacing the ugly bench seat with a couple of nice bucket seats with a LOT of lateral support...

A couple of possibilities...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/IMG_9278-1.jpg

or maybe something like this...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/BlackRedM30md-1.jpg

If I am able to access my battery box behind the seats well enough without have a reclining seat, I might opt for a seat somewhat like this for its GUARANTEED lateral support...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/FX129507SRXL-1.jpg

I really like the look and feel of these if they can be practical enough to access the battery box through the gap between the two seats...

454bug

07-16-2008, 11:09 AM

And finally, I have already removed all the double-deck, carpeted 3/4" plywood area behind the seats. It originally had an access door on a lower-deck to get to the Fuel Pump and Battery box. There was a storage area roughly 30" wide x 30" deep x 14" high above that with a lid on top of it.

We removed all this heavy wood and carpet a couple of weekends ago. We weighed the crap and we cut another 50 pounds out of the car. I will replace it with a single height floor made out of sheetmetal. This area will be used for the battery box and the Master Shift Paddle-shifter control box.

This is how it looked previously...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/Scan_5-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/Scan_4-1.jpg

454bug

07-16-2008, 11:42 AM

We are cutting out some more of the frame and bracing overkill built right below this area, in front of the rear end brackets. We figure another 30-40 pounds cut out of the car...

We should have the car weight down to 2,450-2,500#... What a combination!! Light weight... big power...

796spdbu

07-16-2008, 12:06 PM

Your project is beyond badass. The two-tone is a good chioce and works well with the wheel choice in the first photo chop! I cant wait to see this thing when you get the chassis set up and the wheels on it! Good luck!:kewlpics:

SaturnVUEguy

07-16-2008, 12:09 PM

I wanna see the fenders mocked up! They come in yet?

Are your plans for the interior to strictly be race car-ish, or going for nice looks too?

454bug

07-16-2008, 01:34 PM

I wanna see the fenders mocked up! They come in yet?

Are your plans for the interior to strictly be race car-ish, or going for nice looks too?
No, the fiberglass business, Glass Action, went to a National show in California (they call them Bug-In's) and it slowed down his production. I doubt they are a very big operation but they do great work. They should be in any day. Their business is in Nevada.

To your second question, No, this is definitely a street car... It will just happen to be lightweight, powerful, with good suspension, brakes, and tires... Just like all the other cars on this site...

These "Open-track" lapping days are just for fun. No real competition. Just real "spirited". They want everyone to go home with their cars in one piece. I don't want you guys to get the wrong impression. I am not building a true race car. I am building a "Pro Touring" car like the rest of you with a few competition items to make it fast AND safe on a road course at speed! With this kind of power and low weight EVERYTHING comes at you and happens MUCH faster and with MUCH more stress on the vehicle! Therefore, everything must be constructed to the best quality and safety just in case you get in a bind. Just like my buddy that is helping with the fabrication told me today... We have to build and design the car as if we ARE going to crash it... Surely, we DON'T want to but if we construct it that way, hopefully, I would survive the incident and live to race another day! ANYTHING can happen when driving ANY car at speed! Especially around corners...

My vision of fun is attending and participating in events like the "Year One Experience" and the like... Autocrosses, Drag Strips, and Road Courses... Car shows and cruising... It will just be a real bruiser... I am going to do everything I can to be ready to travel to Braselton next year. I want to experience the "YEAR ONE" experience... and freak a few people out... :jawdrop:

I want it to be refined but functional... just like all the other cars on this site... just with a different body! :drive1:

XTRMEASURES

07-16-2008, 04:34 PM

id like to see this bug in person lafayette is only 20min from my house.

454bug

07-16-2008, 06:52 PM

id like to see this bug in person lafayette is only 20min from my house.
That would be great but right now I have my car at a guy's shop I work with in Mobile, Alabama doing the fab work on the chassis, roll cage, and suspension (I SURELY wouldn't trust my welding on the frame and rollcage!! :guilty: ) He is really known for his chassis and suspension work. He builds his son's circle track race cars and sets up supensions and builds shocks for the circle track guys in the Mobile area. His son has been the local asphalt champ in EVERY class he has ever raced in... His son is trying his best to get a ride in NASCAR. He is SO close... He is actually in Charlotte interviewing right now.

As soon as the car makes it back to Lafayette I'll let you know.

XTRMEASURES

07-16-2008, 08:08 PM

thanks ill be waiting

twosaturns

07-17-2008, 04:45 AM

454bug

07-17-2008, 12:46 PM

this is cool, I like your ideas and parts selection.
I was in Lafayette once, can't remember the name of the restaurant we went to. my wife is from Vacherie, haven't been back down there to visit in awhile though.
Well, we are well known EVERYWHERE for our Cajun food! I got transferred to Lafayette from Texas 21 years ago, fell in love with the food, and made this home for good.

Anyone who visits down here will be impressed with the food... If you don't mind spicy... :seizure:

sixgunsuperman99

07-17-2008, 12:53 PM

The bug with those wider fenders looks amazing - good call.

XTRMEASURES

07-17-2008, 01:57 PM

Well, we are well known EVERYWHERE for our Cajun food! I got transferred to Lafayette from Texas 21 years ago, fell in love with the food, and made this home for good.

Anyone who visits down here will be impressed with the food... If you don't mind spicy... :seizure:

born and raised:bananna2:

SaturnVUEguy

07-17-2008, 04:54 PM

No, this is definitely a street car... It will just happen to be lightweight, powerful, with good suspension, brakes, and tires... Just like all the other cars on this site...Thats what I thought, just wanted it confirmed. If I were to build an interior (I will, eventually) I would create some kind of a custom fiberglass dash, with an integrated video screen, either dvd or nav, a powerful stero system... you get the idea.

Do you have similar plans, or do you plan to keep it like you showed us here...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/Scan-1.jpg

454bug

07-17-2008, 06:03 PM

This dash I designed and built is another carryover of my old Pro Street setup. As mentioned in an earlier post, this picture was taken while we were building the dash. The aluminum standoff from the windshield to the fiberglass face panel is now covered in the same simulated leather.

I installed the Painless switch panel when I didn't have the functions that will, in the future, be built into the Flaming River/Ididit tilt steering column (Flashers, turn signals, hi/lo beams, and horn). The only switches left after moving these functions are: headlights/parking, electric fans, electric fuel pump, hi/lo wipers. Therefore, I am sure all this will change.

In addition, I have the itch to go back to analog gauges... It really looks neat when you see all these cool blue LED lights at night but I feel it doesn't give that rough, old school look I am shooting for... When we built the dash and console I wanted to fill up the space so it didn't look so sparten... Therefore, I presently have gauges for: RPM's, MPH, Oil Pressure, Fuel Level, Water Temp., Engine Oil Temp., Trans Oil Temp., Volts, Vacuum, and a Clock.

A friend of mine has a stereo with the motorized screen that comes out for the navigation and video. When he has his car on display he plays back road racing videos of him on track with his car! That would be pretty cool...

We could bend a couple new pieces of aluminum and rebuild the console if needed... So many decisions... :rolleyes:

Motown 454

07-17-2008, 06:48 PM

454bug

07-18-2008, 08:50 AM

Ray awesome build , looks like a lot of thought went in to it. When I was a kid there was a guy who built a bug with a sbc in it the car screamed. I never thought of it back then because he was one of the older guys who we looked up to , but the steering colum and the steering box didn't line up. So his solution was to bridge the gap with a double roller timing chain and sprockets. When I think of all those wild rides now !!! Nothing was thought out like youv'e done . Again awesome build.
WAyne
Thanks a lot Wayne. It's amazing how many hours we all spend thinking through options and different scenarios for our projects on how to construct, fabricate, or just plain make things work on these projects. I have religiously read most threads on this site as well as many others. I know I am not alone when I say I can't get enough knowledge on the subject of hotrodding! I, also, would be willing to bet that I'm not the ONLY one that have a spent many a night, laying wide awake in bed playing, "what if" in my head over and over trying to figure out a situation, what to work on next, where I can come up with more money for the car project, etc... :idea:

It's sad to say but I refuse to throw away ANY of my old car magazines!! I have every one I ever bought between now and around 1975!! Boxes and boxes of them... I go back and search for certain articles and re-read them from time to time... Right now I have subscriptions to: Hot Rod, Popular Hot Rodding, Car Craft, Chevrolet High Performance, and Super Chevy. I have subscribed to many others here and there but most of these have been my main subscriptions for the last 30 years. I can't get enough!!! :geek:

Motown 454

07-18-2008, 11:40 AM

I should have my wife read this . She thinks I'm the only one who save all my old magazines. Its like she's waiting behind me so when i finnish one she can file it in the trash can. They just don't understant.
Wayne

454bug

08-29-2008, 09:02 PM

Hey guys,

I hope all your projects have been going well for you... Parts for my project are starting to get ordered and a few have came in. I wanted to give you guys an update.

As all of you may know, one of the best suppliers on this site is Frank at Prodigy. He freely lends his support, experience, and advice to anyone that needs help. :twothumbs I am sure there are many other vendors just as nice and helpful as Frank on P-T.com but I haven't had the priviledge of working with any of the others yet. I wanted to take the time to thank Frank for his help to this point and going forward.

454bug

08-29-2008, 09:09 PM

Frank was VERY helpful in lining out my brakes, wheels, and rearend situations. Dimensions, clearances, etc. is always a tricky thing on a truly ALL custom application. I have already experienced the "fun" of purchasing parts 2-3 times to get it right. You "measure twice and cut once" but there always seems to be ONE MORE THING that we didn't think of that threw the setup off or our direction/ideas change mid-stream. There is a definite "domino effect" of changing one thing and it having repurcussions on 2-3 other issues... But that, to me, is part of the fun of this hobby... making something from nothing!!

Also, my decision to take a one-off, custom framed vehicle and make it perform in 4 different types of activities (autocrossing, road racing, drag racing, and street legal activities) has also complicated the issues. Making the car perform in ALL 4 of these areas, EQUALLY WELL, is my challenge and I know I will succeed in my mission...

I am placing my order this next week with Frank for the larger Wilwood Brakes, Forgeline Wheels, Moser M9 Rearend setup, and my Mickey Thompson S/R street tires. After I get the street setup together I will then order my road race tires and my autocross tires from him at a later date.

454bug

08-29-2008, 09:23 PM

As you may remember from previous posts, the car has been setup with a "Pro-Street" look for the last 23 years. I have had the car for the last 13 years. In the last year I had installed the Art Morrison front end and the Wilwood 4-wheel disc brakes. EVERYTHING has to be upgraded for it's new intended uses.

Initially, my intention was to retain the stock-width front fenders with the newer, safer front end setup. Drag racing and street usage was the basic intent. Therefore, I ordered Art Morrison's "narrowed" front end. The control arms were 1-1/2" narrower than standard. The rack-and-pinion was also shortened the same 3" in width (total) as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/I_F_S_CrossmemberKit-1.jpg

454bug

08-29-2008, 09:34 PM

To get the car to handle around corners (street, auto-x, open track) I needed to stretch my front end width to accomodate sufficient rubber (contact patch). You know this is an EXTREME vehicle so why not make it as "extreme" as possible, right???

Therefore, I wanted the widest fender/tire/wheel setup as possible on the front of the car. I settled on 18" wheels/tires. It didn't take long to realize I couldn't afford 3 SETS of 3-piece wheels for the different tire combinations for the 4 applications. I started contemplating alternative plans to reach my goal. I started searching Ebay for possibilities...

Here's what I came up with... I will buy one set of the expensive Forgeline (ZX3R) 18" wheels for the application that will get the most use and enjoyment... the street application.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/product_photoxlarge_image23-1.jpg

454bug

08-29-2008, 09:54 PM

I will then buy relatively inexpensive "factory" Corvette wheels for the other sets of tires (for about 1/4th the price) to be used for road racing and autocrossing... To keep with the theme of the car I will probably sand-blast these wheels and powdercoat them black at work...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/8ccd_1-1.jpg

with these tires for road racing (Toyo's R888's)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/lpid30029-1.jpg

and these tires for autocrossing (Kumho's 710's)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/ku_ecsta_v710_ci2_l-1.jpg

454bug

08-29-2008, 10:03 PM

Presently, I had stock-width front fenders and the rear fenders were already 3" wider-than-stock...

I placed an order with Glass Action for 4 new fenders and the matching running boards... The front fenders are 3" wider-than-stock and the new rear fenders are 4-1/2" wider-than-stock.

I wanted to try and figure out high wide of a front wheel I could get under the fender and still retain a good turning radius. With my fenders on order I located a couple of Corvette C5 Z06 (18"x10-1/2") rear wheels with (295/35/18) B.F. Goodrich Drag Radials on them on Ebay. The width of the wheel and the width and height of the tire were VERY close to what I thought would fit on the front of the bug. So I bought them for mock-up purposes. I plan to dispose of the tires when the planning stages are complete...

Here's what came in...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02016-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02045-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02052-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02056-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02061-1.jpg

Nessumsar

08-29-2008, 10:11 PM

mmmmmmm, Forgelines. Wish my wallet liked them as much as I do. I thing the Corvette wheels will look killer as well, seems that the bugs have a large array of good looking wheels.

454bug

08-29-2008, 10:16 PM

mmmmmmm, Forgelines. Wish my wallet liked them as much as I do. I thing the Corvette wheels will look killer as well, seems that the bugs have a large array of good looking wheels.

Yeah, they are SWEET!!! I can't wait to get them ordered!

454bug

08-29-2008, 10:38 PM

The majority of the offset on the Corvette wheels is to the inside. These 10-1/2" wide wheels actually have 7-1/2" to the inside and 3" to the outside. The hubs are REALLY thick... That's why it gives it that flush look even though they have 3" to the outside! I will order my Forgeline wheels to have the same amount of outside offset as the Corvette wheels. Because of the different construction of the center section of the Forgeline wheels they should have the proper amount of rim lip "reveal" I am looking for on the outside of the rims...

With the desire of using "factory" wheels on the car to minimize cost on the spare sets I needed to bring the suspension to the wheels. I really don't want to run spacers on the front of the car because it throws the wheel too far off of its pivot point as well as looking funky (IMO) with the brake rotor so far away from the wheel's hub. Scrub radius is minimized to a small negative number when the offset is kept to the outside as well. As soon as we bolted the wheels on the car we realized I would have to order Art Morrison's "stock" length control arms to get everything on the correct plane.

To get the wheel out further in the fender and simulate the distance of the 1-1/2" longer control arms we mocked up the wheel with what spacers I had available to me at the shop... We had 1-1/4" worth of spacers to get a good idea what we were working with...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02100-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC021051-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC021031-1.jpg

454bug

08-29-2008, 11:09 PM

It's a little wider than the skinny minnies, aren't they???

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02107-1.jpg

454bug

08-29-2008, 11:40 PM

We wanted to check our turning radius...

Lock-to-lock we were initially able to get 27 degrees left and right... I had purchased the existing 11-3/4" rotors with Wilwood's "zero-offset" hubs on them since I was worried about my total track-width on the old setup. Since I need to push this setup out as much as I can I will order the 14" rotors with the 6-piston Superlite calipers with the standard offset hubs. That will gain us another 1/2" to the outside on each side. The longer control arms will give us another 1/4" more than my stacked wheel spacers...

With these two items I will gain another 3/4" away from the frame... that should give me roughly 30 degrees left and right... The stroke of my rack-and-pinion won't give me more than that distance anyway...

With this turning radius, the short 96" wheelbase, and my quick ratio steering (12:1 ratio) this thing ought to be a hoot on an autocross course!! :drive1:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02113-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02114-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02118-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02111-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 12:05 AM

Since I will be racing autocrosses and participating in open-track activities I decided to go with a "power" steering rack. The rack needed to be wider anyway to match the new, wider control arms. The normal Flaming River type racks out there are either 20:1 or 15:1 ratios. Since I am going to autocross the car I wanted to take this opportunity to speed the system up. Therefore, since my fabrication buddy has connections with the Sweet company I will order one of their 12:1 (2.5") power racks.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/00580345-1.jpg

COMP

08-30-2008, 02:05 AM

getting there :drive1:

454bug

08-30-2008, 05:49 AM

The turning radius was okay so it was on to fitting the fender to check for position of the fenderwell and associated clearances...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02123-1.jpg

Check out the difference in width to the stock fender!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02129-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02155-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 05:55 AM

Just to be a little different I may decide to stick with the Mickey Thompson S/R tires for the road. They are about 3 inches wider than all the 335-345/30/18 tires out there. I will buy the 18" wheel-size version of these instead of the 15" wheel-size versions I already have. The tires are 29x18x18. The rear wheels will be 18"x15"! :evil:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02139-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02136-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02156-1.jpg

The rear treads are 15-1/2" wide!!! I need all the contact patch I can with 870 horsepower and only weighing 2,500 pounds!!! :6gears:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02078-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02072-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 10:50 AM

As stated earlier, the C5 Z06 Corvette's rear wheels (18"x10-1/2") will be used "as is" for the front of the car. I will purchase additional wheels of the same size and offset for the rear of the car. To accomodate the wider Toyo (335/30/18) and Kumho (345/30/18) rear racing tires I will need to widen these wheels by 2". There is a local company that will cut the rim on the back side of the wheel, add a 2" wide piece of aluminum, and re-weld the wheel back together. After the wheel's welds are buffed out and the entire wheel is powder-coated you won't hardly be able to tell where they were modified/widened.

The price of the wheels on Ebay range from $100-$150 each. On the rear wheels an additional $250 will be spent to widen each of them. I will powder-coat them for free at work. Therefore, I can set up a set of wheels to race with for roughly $1,100 total for all 4 wheels... almost the same price of ONE Forgeline wheel... :headbang:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02057-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 11:02 AM

This is one of my old rear wheel/tire combos. As you can see the "dish" was mostly to the outside to give it that "Pro-Street" look. I needed to change this look to transition to the "Pro-Touring" look. I will accomplish this by ordering the new 18" wheels with most of the offset to the inside.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC01960-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DragRaces121-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 11:16 AM

For a proper stagger, I am looking for 1" more outer lip on the rear wheels than the front wheels. I will order the new Forgelines with this stagger. I will just run a 1" wide spacer on the rear two Corvette wheels when using my racing tires (autocross or road racing)...

The old wheels were 15"x14" with 8-1/2" from the hub to the outside lip. With the new rear wheels they will be 18"x15" with roughly 4" from the hub to the outside lip.

What this means is I needed to remove and replace my present narrowed rearend with a widened one. I will be adding roughly 11" to the total width of the rearend housing (5-1/2" each side)!

I am updating the rear suspension at the same time so it is ALL getting re-vamped... :woot:

Here is the new rearend housing I am ordering with Frank... A Moser M9. 3.70 Pro Street gears, Detroit Trutrac, 31-spline axles, and Aluminum Center section with 1350 yoke.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/bare_05-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/csalum-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 11:32 AM

Therefore, I had to pull out the 46" wide old setup (with the antiquated, 1970's technology "Super Stock" rear suspension) and get ready to re-vamp the rear frame rails to accept the new suspension...

This was a really weird rear suspension... You can see the MASSIVE contol arm brackets... A 7-leaf, leaf spring that has been reversed, cut in half, and permanently mounted to the frame in the front... Then, a 4-link bar was installed on the top of the brackets to control and adjust pinion angle... VERY HEAVY and VERY UGLY!! :hand: The only real "benefit" to this particular rear suspension is the total length of the setup is relatively short/shallow. In a real compact project that may have been considered a viable benefit.

My list of removed products is growing steadily... It's pretty ironic that a rearend setup being removed from my V8 bug is getting packaged up and sent halfway around the world to a fellow hotrodder in England to be used on his new V8 bug project!! He is buying my brand new Wilwood front and rear brakes (11-3/4" front rotors with 4-piston Dynalites, 12.19" rear rotors with 4-piston Dynalites), my Mustang II front spindles, my complete Ford 9" rearend, and my front and rear tires and wheels.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC019511-1.jpg

454bug

08-30-2008, 11:43 AM

The guy from England buying the rearend has already purchased a Chassis Engineering 4-link setup so the old, heavy junk had to go before crating the items.

This rearend and suspension swap alone will be close to a 70-80 pound weight savings...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02146-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02149-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02152-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC02153-1.jpg

mach1stang

08-30-2008, 01:16 PM

46 inches, did you have a narrow tire with alot of backspacing? Because my mustang has the 33x17.5 inch tires but not alot backspacing and our rear end was 35 or so inches.

454bug

08-30-2008, 03:57 PM

46 inches, did you have a narrow tire with alot of backspacing? Because my mustang has the 33x17.5 inch tires but not alot backspacing and our rear end was 35 or so inches.

First of all, we need to make sure we are talking about the same dimension... When I say 46" I am talking about a measurement from the face of one rotor to the face of the other rotor. I recently discussed this with another guy concerning his rearend setup and he made the same comment as you. He thought his rearend must have been a lot narrower than mine until we realized he was thinking of a "housing end-to-housing end" measurement and not a total rotor face-to-rotor face measurement... There is probably a good 3"-4" distance from the rearend housing flange to the face of the rotor on both sides... that number added to your 35" measurement would be 41"-43"... with just a little difference on our wheel offsets would make up the difference...

I wouldn't consider these wheels/tires to be a "narrow tire"... the tires are 18" wide... the wheels are 15"x14" wide with 5-1/2" backspacing.

In summary, a rotor-to-rotor measurement of 46" plus 10" of wheel and tire on each side from the rotor face to the outside of the tire section and you have the total width of my setup of 66"...

I would be willing to wager that your Mustang has a WIDER total dimension than mine which is 66"... (I think a Camaro or Mustang should be closer to 70"-72" total dimension)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC019511-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/DSC01960-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/BugPicturesfromMark797-1.jpg

mach1stang

08-30-2008, 04:54 PM

OOOHHH ok your right I thought you meant housing end to housing end oops. I think my rear end would be about same as yours with the brakes and all on becasue we have very little backspacing on our old tires it is only about 3-3.5 inches of backspacing. Anyways I think the only thing you need is set of massive 88mm turbos peeping out of the hood... that may a bit much though.

beep4beep

08-30-2008, 05:22 PM

I have one question. Will your rear tires fit 12 inch wheels? Randy

454bug

08-30-2008, 05:37 PM

I have one question. Will your rear tires fit 12 inch wheels? Randy

Hey Randy,

Here is the link to the tire's spec's:

http://mickeythompsontires.com/street.php?item=SportsmanSR

As you can see the recommended rim for this tire is 15"-16"...

mach1stang

08-30-2008, 05:48 PM

454bug if your project hits the road before mine please tell what you think of those tires ride. I will be running the same tire but I will have the 31x18x18 and I really want to know how they ride, and how good the can burnout!!

454bug

08-30-2008, 06:26 PM

Nessumsar

08-30-2008, 09:53 PM

All I can say is that's a lot of rubber! Keep the updates coming

454bug

08-31-2008, 06:02 AM

All I can say is that's a lot of rubber! Keep the updates coming

With the measurements taken and clearances checked it looks like on the autocross tires (Kumho 710's) and the road race tires (Toyo R888's) I will be able to use their 315/30/18's on the front of the car and their 335-345/30-18's on the rears...

If I can get the stance right and keep the center of gravity as low as possible this thing should handle like a go-cart! on steroids... :evil:

twosaturns

08-31-2008, 04:29 PM

With the measurements taken and clearances checked it looks like on the autocross tires (Kumho 710's) and the road race tires (Toyo R888's) I will be able to use their 315/30/18's on the front of the car and their 335-345/30-18's on the rears...

If I can get the stance right and keep the center of gravity as low as possible this thing should handle like a go-cart! on steroids... :evil:
um. shouldn't you be evacuating rignt now???

or, maybe you did already. hope you are all safe and sound. please check in let us know how things are after gustav comes to visit.

454bug

08-31-2008, 06:47 PM

um. shouldn't you be evacuating rignt now???

or, maybe you did already. hope you are all safe and sound. please check in let us know how things are after gustav comes to visit.

You know that old saying, "the lull before the storm"... that's exactly how it has been all day! It was perfect blue skies and 94 degrees all day. I mowed the grass and picked everything up.

I spent the majority of the day packing vehicles, boats, 4-wheelers, trailers, tractors, mowers, and other stuff in my 50'x60' shop at my house! It is packed like sardines! All my buddies' toys as well as mine and family members cars has it stacked to the max...

I was transferred to Lafayette from Texas 21 years ago... I have weathered quite a few storms over those years. I haven't ever evacuated YET... It is really cool to sit on the porch/patio and watch Mother Nature at it's finest... the sound of the wind whistling, the trees bending to their max until you hear that really loud "CRACK"...

In 2002, Hurricane LILY came straight through here. We went to bed VERY nervous because the storm was a Category 4 and was expected to intensify... we woke up about 4:00am and LUCKILY the storm reduced to a cat 3 and everything was okay. I own 16 acres of land at my house. About 6-7 acres of the land is covered in a nice forest of trees. I lost about 40 trees during that storm. Some of them as large as 3-6 feet in diameter! A lot of cleanup and chainsaw exercise! It was in mid-October but it was still in the 90's everyday. I didn't have electricity or water for 7 days. It was brutal... In 2005, Hurricane Rita hit Beaumont, Texas (150 miles away) but we were on the East side of the storm and experienced a 12' storm surge anyway... My wife's parent's house (about 17 miles from my house closer to the coast) flooded with about 1-1/2' of water in their home. We spent 6 months remodeling their house. Talk about something killing your hotrodding fun!!

Gustav is supposed to reach land about 100 miles away from us around Houma, Louisiana. It will follow the coast and hopefully be about a Category 2-3 by the time it comes right over us. We will probably see 80-100 mph sustained winds with gusts to 130 mph...

My shop is rated for 150 mph... I hope my 4 garage doors stand up to the winds!!! :seizure: Luckily, my car is located at my friend's house in Mobile, Alabama doing the fabrication work... Out of harm's way...

I'll keep you guys posted. I will try to take some video and post it if it comes over us during daylight hours...

jknight16

09-01-2008, 12:46 AM

Good luck to you guys, we'll be thinking of ya for sure! The next few hours should be interesting...

SaturnVUEguy

09-02-2008, 03:46 PM

Thank you for the BIG update there! I always love reading about this car and your plans/work.

Hope all is well with Gustav

454bug

09-03-2008, 06:26 AM

Hey guys,

Thanks for the comments. Everything worked out fine. By the time Gustav hit the coast around Houma, Louisiana (about 100 miles away) it started losing steam. It did it's customary damage to buildings and trees. By the time it got to us it was downgraded to roughly 80 mph winds with gusts over 100 mph. We lost electricity at my house about 3:30pm on Monday and it came back on Tuesday morning, about 18 hours later. There are a lot of people that weren't as fortunate and they might not have electricity for a week or two.

454bug

09-03-2008, 06:29 AM

...

Benoit23

09-03-2008, 07:02 AM

454bug

09-03-2008, 07:15 AM

Glad to see you & your family are OK. My family came to Texas with all their race cars loaded up in tow & left all their daily drivers back home in the shop.... LOL .... Insurance don't cover race cars.....

Luckily my car is at my buddy's house in Mobile, Alabama.

It's funny what I am concerned about protecting during a hurricane and what's important to my wife... I'm concerned about my cars and my oil and gas memorabilia collection and she's worried about family pictures and heirlooms!! :)

SaturnVUEguy

09-03-2008, 12:37 PM

I've seen worse damage than that from thunderstorms and microbursts. Good to hear you made it out ok!

454bug

09-03-2008, 01:31 PM

I've seen worse damage than that from thunderstorms and microbursts. Good to hear you made it out ok!

Yeah, we were real fortunate overall. Our town escaped major damage but many others didn't.

I have experienced much higher winds in the past. When the wind gets over 120 mph it starts to "howl"... I was pretty protected from the wind and rain because of the direction of the storm at the time I was taking this video. Sometimes video doesn't do justice to "being there" as well.

I spent most of today cutting a tree off one of my employee's house.

streetrod77

09-03-2008, 01:35 PM

Glad to hear everybody is well. Its just been raining for the past day and 1/2. I'm sure my wife would say "What the &@!! you doing with that trailer".

454bug

09-17-2008, 03:52 PM

Hey guys,

I have been busy ordering parts today... My tastiest morsel of the day is this beauty...

632 cubic inches of pure SEXY aluminum!!! :jawdrop:

I am shooting for 850-900 hp...

I think I might just sleep with it for a few nights before putting it together!! :drool:

or at least until my wife kicks either ME or the engine out of the bed... :evil:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/PA130192-1.jpg

twosaturns

09-17-2008, 04:31 PM

I think I just wet myself.

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the idea of a 900hp fat tired short wheelbase bug.

amazing.

mach1stang

09-17-2008, 05:14 PM

632 in a beetle that is just crazy!! But why not just go with a twin turbo 815?

454bug

09-17-2008, 06:27 PM

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the idea of a 900hp fat tired short wheelbase bug.

The car's wheelbase is definitely shorter than a Camaro, Corvette, or a Mustang... But the car is a little mis-leading at to how short it is because there's really no "overhang" past the front and rear tires. It definitely makes the car look shorter than it really is...

The Super Beetle's wheelbase from the factory is 95". We have stretched mine to about 96"...

The 1965 Shelby 427 S/C Cobra's wheelbase was 90".

The Porsche 911 GT3's wheelbase is 92.5".

The Dodge Viper's wheelbase is 98".

The Factory Five GTM's wheelbase is 101".

I think I will have more issues with the "track width" than anything else. It is fairly narrow... My track width is roughly 53"...

The 427 S/C's track was 54".

The GT3's track is 58".

The Viper's track is 57".

The GTM's track is 60".

For both of these reasons I will be building the car as low to the ground as possible!

I will incorporate ride height adjustments so I can raise the car for street driving and much lower settings for autocrosses and a slightly higher ride height for road courses... :6gears:

SaturnVUEguy

09-18-2008, 04:29 PM

:drive1:

SatisTraction

09-18-2008, 05:49 PM

that is crazy!! if i am ever your way i would love to stop in and see it in person.

DIK069

09-18-2008, 07:24 PM

This is an incredibly dumb project.

.
Please continue :) :cool:

454bug

09-18-2008, 08:14 PM

that is crazy!! if i am ever your way i would love to stop in and see it in person.

I work in the oil and gas industry. A lot of our projects take place in the McComb and Brookhaven, Mississippi areas. I have promised to bring the car up to show the guys I work with there when the project is complete.

I'll let you know when I bring the car up.

454bug

09-18-2008, 08:16 PM

This is an incredibly dumb project.

Please continue :) :cool:

I REALLY glad you hate it!!! That means I'm doing a good job... :evil:

Being typical is SO boring... :naughty:

DIK069

09-18-2008, 08:36 PM

I REALLY glad you hate it!!! That means I'm doing a good job... :evil:

Being typical is SO boring... :bsjerk:

My Australian sarcastic slang didn't come over properly, lol.

For a translation, The word dumb was meaning = not entirely logical, but good and different.

So yeah, I like very much . :yeah:

454bug

09-18-2008, 08:51 PM

My Australian sarcastic slang didn't come over properly, lol.

For a translation, The word dumb was meaning = not entirely logical, but good and different.

So yeah, I like very much . :yeah:

Thanks for the clarification! :) In the USA, we have a similar term that could be misunderstood as well... Over here they say a project is "sick"... and that's a good thing! :hand:

("sick" meaning cool, awesome, outrageous, unbelievable, "over-the-top", etc...)

Memphis

09-19-2008, 01:05 AM

I think this thing is gonna be so badass even the purists will have to have to bow down :hail:

Kenova

09-19-2008, 06:59 PM

I think this thing is gonna be so badass even the purists will have to have to bow down :hail:
Nah, just tell the wienies you melted down 27 original VW crank cases to cast the block.:yeah:

Ken

SatisTraction

09-19-2008, 07:07 PM

I work in the oil and gas industry. A lot of our projects take place in the McComb and Brookhaven, Mississippi areas. I have promised to bring the car up to show the guys I work with there when the project is complete.

I'll let you know when I bring the car up.

nice, that is right down the road from me. i will be sure to stop by!!

454bug

09-22-2008, 07:18 PM

I located some nice off-the-shelf C6 Z06 replica wheels to use for my road race tires. I ordered a full set (18"x10-1/2" and 19"x12") for $775.00. The company is called www.factoryreproductions.com (http://www.factoryreproductions.com). They were real nice to work with and the wheels were in stock...

They should come in this week and I will get my road race tires mounted up and use them to make all my critical measurements before I order my Forgelines from Prodigy and my street tires. I need to verify backspacings prior to ordering the expensive stuff...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/5464_12-1.jpg

454bug

09-22-2008, 07:32 PM

My road race tires came in today... I was going to use the Toyo R888 tires but I found these replica wheels available in the 12" width but only available in the 19" diameter... Hoosier R6's have a nice Viper size in the 19" so I went that route.

I went with 315/30/18's in the front and 345/30/19's in the rear... :twothumbs

NOW THAT"S SOME RUBBER!!! :evil:

I only wish they made a wider rear tire so I could fill out my fender wells... maybe someone could come out with a 405/25/19!!! :seizure:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02382-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02396-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02387-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02402-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02398-1.jpg

I ordered their really cool tire bags to keep the ozone stuff and sunlight off of them...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02409-1.jpg

COMP

09-23-2008, 01:07 AM

wow :drive1:

454bug

09-23-2008, 04:38 AM

If they only made this width in a smaller rim size... (from SEMA 2006) :headbang:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/SEMAShow617-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/SEMAShow616-1.jpg

Motown 454

09-23-2008, 12:31 PM

Wow nice tires . Do you know if they make 345 30 19 in a street tread? You'll need all that rubber .

454bug

09-23-2008, 02:06 PM

Wow nice tires . Do you know if they make 345 30 19 in a street tread? You'll need all that rubber .

I noticed the Pro-Touring events wanted to create a somewhat level playing field for the "King of the Hill" type titles. I saw the restriction of running a DOT 180-200 rated tire (or higher) to be eligible to compete in their events.

Therefore, I talked to Frank at Prodigy about this. I will purchase my street wheels (Forgeline ZX3R's - 18"x10-1/2" fronts & 19"x12" rears) and my street tires (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 - 315/30/18 fronts & 345/30/19 rears) so I would be eligible to compete.

We'll see how "sticky" they end up being... :drive1:

454bug

09-23-2008, 02:26 PM

By the way, if any of you guys need an inexpensive set of wheels to run your autocross, road racing, or drag tires on check out this site, www.factoryreproductions.com (http://www.factoryreproductions.com). I was finding it difficult to locate an inexpensive set of 1-piece wheels for my "extra" sets and also be available in the 12" width. I finally ran across this site...

They have the 19"x12" C6 Z06 wheels for a little over $200.00 each.

They have the 18"x12" C5 Z06 wheels for about the same price.

I already have a couple of sets of the factory C5 Z06 rear wheels (18"x10-1/2"). I will use them for my front wheels for my Autocross tires and purchase a set of their 18"x12" for the rears... I will purchase a set of Hoosier A-6 tires to go on them (315/30/18 - fronts & 335/30/18 - rears)...

SaturnVUEguy

09-23-2008, 04:56 PM

now that is some serious rubber!!!

454bug

09-25-2008, 06:50 PM

Another new item today...

Did someone say there's a GAS shortage??? :headbang:

Big's Stage 7 Dominator... 1250 cfm (set up for Road Racing)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02433-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/DSC02432-1.jpg

COMP

09-25-2008, 08:16 PM

thats pretty :smoke:

454bug

10-01-2008, 04:50 PM

More parts came in today...

First, my Gear Vendors Under/Overdrive...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02557-1.jpg

and Second, my MOMO Steering Wheel. I am installing a spring-loaded wheel removal setup... to aid getting in and out of the car with the roll cage.

My Mastershift Paddle Shifter should be in any day... It will mount up right between the steering wheel and the 1" spacer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02574-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02571-1.jpg

COMP

10-01-2008, 05:05 PM

sweet :drive:

Motown 454

10-01-2008, 08:29 PM

Very nice I like the wheel. That carb makes my 1050 look sane!

orbit

10-02-2008, 09:24 AM

I want both of those items please!:yum: LOL

rscamaro73

10-02-2008, 04:59 PM

I'm stuck at my desk after the Alum. BBC :jawdrop:

THAT is the sickness.....let the Dark Side prevail.....

I'm liking this after having a bug a lil while back.

But my overall comment is wordless.... :drool:

bigguy

10-07-2008, 05:47 PM

Would you happen to have the front end. If so would you be willing to sell it and for how much.

454bug

10-08-2008, 08:52 PM

Would you happen to have the front end. If so would you be willing to sell it and for how much.

Are you referring to the front end sheetmetal or the front suspension? I do have the original front fenders but I do not have any of the original front suspension. The car has a complete custom 2"x3" rectangular-tube chassis. Other than the body, nothing "original" has been on the car for the last 25 years...

XTRMEASURES

10-09-2008, 03:24 PM

im loveing this project more and more

one day im going to like to see it in person

454bug

10-09-2008, 05:39 PM

Blue70

10-10-2008, 08:34 AM

I love those wheels and tires...

Hurry up and get this thing done already,
I can't wait, lol

454bug

10-10-2008, 09:24 AM

Hurry up and get this thing done already,
I can't wait, lol

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has to fight how much "Mad money" I can allocate to the project each month... :naughty:

It NEVER comes in as fast as you need it to... :guilty:

454bug

10-11-2008, 11:20 PM

A little motivation...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/SIMG3014-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/SIMG3016-1.jpg

They call them "Fun Cups"... It's a racing series in Europe for the "regular Joes" that want to go racing. They have divisions that race in France, Italy, Germany, Spain, England, and now are starting to crop up in the USA.

Check out this video of a 25 hour endurance race. 175 bugs started the race!!! :seizure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_mj1qyEDRY&eurl=http://www.fun-cup.com/video.html

Here's a recap of races in 2007 in the UK... :twothumbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPqOe0yauOc&eurl=http://www.fun-cup.com/video.html

My car will weigh about 800 pounds heavier than these cars but it wil have roughly 5-6 times the horsepower and at least 2-3 times more rubber on the ground...

twosaturns

10-13-2008, 07:15 AM

friggin' europeans...:) I'd love to see what they would make of YOUR bug...

bigguy

10-13-2008, 05:47 PM

Not the original struts but the original straight axle you took off when you started the update this time.

454bug

10-13-2008, 07:21 PM

Not the original struts but the original straight axle you took off when you started the update this time.

I gave it to my buddy who's helping me with the welding and setup work. He planned on making a trailer with it. I'll check with him to make sure he is going to use it.

Firehawkslp

10-14-2008, 01:46 AM

I got my road race tires mounted up on my spare wheels...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02599-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02602-1.jpg

Check out how small the 345/30/19 rear tires look beside my old M&H Racemaster Bias rear tires... I hope I have enough rubber on the ground... :drive1:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02613-1.jpg

How were the wheels preped and what kind of finsh is it? Paint, powder coat,...; is it a semigloss or mat finish. They look fantastic with a mean, purposful look. Your wheels have just the look I'm after.

As to your build; I think there gonna have to add disbelief to the words shock and awe when this "lady" hits the track.
Someone asked the question what happened to cars that scare people? YOU have the answer right here! I say go for it:sick: :cool: :twothumbs and strap in,hold on it's going to be a wild ride! subscribed

454bug

10-14-2008, 03:26 PM

How were the wheels preped and what kind of finsh is it? Paint, powder coat,...; is it a semigloss or mat finish. They look fantastic with a mean, purposful look. Your wheels have just the look I'm after.

As to your build; I think there gonna have to add disbelief to the words shock and awe when this "lady" hits the track.
Someone asked the question what happened to cars that scare people? YOU have the answer right here! I say go for it:sick: :cool: :twothumbs and strap in,hold on it's going to be a wild ride! subscribed

Hey Firehawk,

The wheels are factory-painted, "Satin" black. I would call them somewhere between semi-gloss and matte.

I debated taking the time to powdercoat them black prior to mounting my new tires. I have access to baking ovens at my work to powdercoat them myself. It was suggested to me that since they were wheels that would have tires replaced multiple times over a relatively short period of time (because of rapid tire wear of race tires) there would be a high likelihood of the powdercoat developing chips around the perimeter. Therefore, I decided to just leave them painted.

I could always choose to powdercoat them at a later date. They sell the matte black bottles of powdercoat material at Harbor Freight for about $6.00 per bottle. A bottle will cover two wheels each. We already have the powdercoat gun at work.

bigguy

10-15-2008, 05:39 PM

Thanks for checking.

454bug

10-15-2008, 06:12 PM

Check out this bug running through a European autocross... :headbang:

You don't see too many courses set up this fast over here!! He revs out in 5th gear a couple times!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/th_pichling_2008-1.jpg (http://s241.photobucket.com/albums/ff196/454bug/?action=view&current=pichling_2008.flv)

Firehawkslp

10-15-2008, 07:07 PM

Thanks!!!!

454bug

10-16-2008, 11:12 AM

We need to find a track like this... elevation changes and all!! :drive1:

http://www.aichlseder.info/video/autoslalom_6.wmv

showa

10-16-2008, 07:32 PM

I think I've seen something before on that autox bug...I think it had OHC heads and a sequential trans ?????

Either way I think yours will be the absolute homerun of them all.....

showa

10-16-2008, 08:26 PM

454bug

10-17-2008, 08:37 AM

You have got to check out the two videos from 2008 from this guys Bugs........
http://www.aichlseder.info/web/d_news.htm

Hope you don't think I'm jacking your thread...You just got me sideways with that video....

Kurt

Hey Kurt,

No jacking... LOL. That's what these threads are for!! :woot:

I sure wish we could set up an autocross like theirs!! There are a couple of places on one of their tracks that our V-8 rides would get AIRBORNE!!! :drive1:
NOW THAT WOULD BE FUN!!!

If the right precautions were set in place a "high speed" autocross would REALLY be cool...

I think we would require our course workers and spectators to get a safer distance away from the course. You know these people are used to standing two feet away from a World Cup Rally Car flying by at 100 mph!

Check out this guy... probably racing on his lunch break... around his lumber yard...

http://www.aichlseder.info/video/autoslalom_18.wmv

CRAZY!!!

Scott Parkhurst

10-17-2008, 09:47 AM

454bug

10-17-2008, 10:50 AM

I'm digging this, I just have one question.

Why a carb, and not EFI? With the g-forces you'll be capable of, I can see potential for a carb to stumble when the fuel sloshes around in the bowls, but an EFI setup couldn't fail you.

I don't mean to sound offensive, but it doesn't appear that budget is a major issue on this project, so why not gain some hood clearance and lose some potential reliability problems?

I'll be paying attention to this build. This car and the Chevette that was being built on here qualify as two of my faves. I hope to see them both at some event in the future!

~SP~

Hey Scott,

You beat me to the punch!! :) I purchased this carb about a year ago when I was updating the car as a "Pro-Streeter"... I recently had to send it back to them to change floats and other setups to handle the g-forces and not have flooding/starvation issues...

In the meantime, I had a number of friends STRONGLY suggest the merits of a conversion to fuel injection. The many benefits including: easier starts, smoother idles, smoother transitions, optimization at ALL rpm's/everywhere on the power curve, etc...

I started studying the FAST XFI system and pretty much decided to go that route when I called and consulted with Frank with Prodigy. He sells FAST, Accel, and Holley. From his past experience with all of these systems he has convinced me to go with the Accel Thruster DFI system.

Here is the "turn key" system I am going with. They call it their, "Engine Builder" series... The Dominator throttle body flows 2100 cfm's!! :jump: It should flow all I need it to...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/77203EB-1.jpg

I really want to go with an intake like this Hogan one for the COOL factor but it's already over $5,000 for the Thruster DFI kit... I don't know if I could justify an additional $3,000 for this much more "cool"... :eek:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/14499__3_-1.jpg

I wasn't going to post anything until I actually ordered it from Frank and got it in...

By the way... a budget is ALWAYS an issue!!! :rolleyes: I just put my left *** up for colateral!!! :look:

You might not be as old as I am... I'm 48 years old. I have spent my entire life spending money on EVERYONE else (ex-wives, children, friends, relatives, etc...) I have owned a NUMBER of half-ass projects in my lifetime... "Quality of Life" is kicking in, at my old-age... I am at a time in my life (EMPTY NEST) that it's time to do something just for ME!!

THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT!!! :evil:

dhondagod

10-17-2008, 08:09 PM

That picture of that motor makes me happy in my pants!

Chris

Scott Parkhurst

10-17-2008, 09:19 PM

Ray-

I totally get it, and since you answered my only question, I have no more...

...except, can I get a ride someday?

PS - I'll be 42 in a month...

~SP~

454bug

10-17-2008, 10:55 PM

Ray-

I totally get it, and since you answered my only question, I have no more...

...except, can I get a ride someday?

PS - I'll be 42 in a month...

~SP~

I look forward to giving MANY rides to anyone crazy enough to get in the car with me!! :seizure:

I surely meant NO disrespect in my explanation to you about my motivation and budget... I have happily spent my entire life helping out others and always justifying away allocation of funds of any real consequence for the greater good of more important priorities.

I am just now at a time in my life with not so many things/people sucking on the teets, a better income, and a burning desire to have something really crazy, and complete, for once in my life... :evil:

and Happy almost Birthday!! :yeah:

bigguy

10-19-2008, 02:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/user/MidnightJezebel

V8 bug racing on some autocross tracks

Roadrunna

10-19-2008, 02:52 PM

friggin' europeans...:) I'd love to see what they would make of YOUR bug...

I'd say 'Inspiration' https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Of course access to the decent V8's is more difficult over here

But not too difficult https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

We also have a few crazy VW's
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Anyway, you can have your thread back now Ray https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

shmoov69

10-20-2008, 07:56 PM

Ohh, that vanster is TOO COOL!!

454bug

10-20-2008, 08:34 PM

I'd say 'Inspiration' https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hey Simon! There are car nuts ALL over the world! Keep up the great work!

It is a testament to your hot-rodding blood to make the effort to bring good old American musclecars all the way to the UK!

This is my old rear end setup I sold to Simon... From one V8 bug to another V8 bug project... I shipped it half way around the world to Simon in the UK!! :twothumbs

He purchased my old front and rear wheels/tires, rearend, spindles, and Wilwood brakes...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02356-1.jpg

Roadrunna

10-21-2008, 09:25 AM

Should be getting it narrowed even more soon as well :)

The postie was a bit shocked when that turned up lol.

The Splitty Dragster is due to have a pickup bed fitted complete with dropsides. It's an all steel shell that's been chopped and sectioned. It's only just over 4ft high. Doors still work fully & the Safari front windows were hand made.

The guy who's building it built the Purple bug too. He's a (mental) genius.

artwiggins

10-23-2008, 01:09 PM

Wow!!!

454bug

10-31-2008, 10:25 AM

Another nice piece came in this week... my Mastershift Paddle Shifter!!! :attn:

Because of the extra roll cage bars we are adding across the door area I decided to have the steering wheel removable in addition to the Ididit tilt-column to facilitate getting in and out of the car...

To accomplish this and still have the paddle shifter operation I opted for Mastershift's "Offroad" setup. This includes their corded hookup as well as their digital gear indicator in the middle of the steering wheel. The benefits of this setup is three-fold... First, it's a "security" measure by disabling the transmission by removing the steering wheel with the associated paddle setup. Secondly, it facilitates the steering wheel removal. And lastly, it gives me a "head's up" gear indicator in the center of the wheel. I really like the idea of being able to glance down and see what gear I am in as well as if I am in "overdrive" or not... :headbang:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02842-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02851-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02841-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02862-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02859-1.jpg

trapin

10-31-2008, 11:57 AM

Sweet project. And different. I love how it's turning out.

454bug

10-31-2008, 01:09 PM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC02862-1.jpg

As you guy's may remember from previous posts, there are two sets of controls on the Mastershift setup...

The left and right red buttons are "full" shifts, up and down, and the left and right paddles will be "half" shifts, up and down. :drive:

The paddles will alternate the shifting between the transmission and the Gear Vendors Under/Overdrive. It will make for really close gearing... It should be like a Superbike shifting... :twothumbs

454bug

10-31-2008, 01:16 PM

Sweet project. And different. I love how it's turning out.

Hey Tony, thanks a lot for the compliment!

My short block should be in next week...

Frank at Prodigy has been a LITTLE pre-occuppied lately... He said the new Wilwood brakes should be in any time... I will also be ordering my Accel Thruster DFI system from him when he gets back from SEMA... It looks like I am going to bite the bullet and order the Hogan intake...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/14499__3_-1.jpg

If we get all the drivetrain sorted out and get it rolling then we can start on the top side items, inside and out.

ProdigyCustoms

10-31-2008, 01:23 PM

454bug

10-31-2008, 01:29 PM

Those Hogan's intakes are badd ass. If you need to discuss that more give me a call. I will be traveling to deliver the convertible until tomorrow late afternoon. I have a broadband modem on the laptop here and a cell phone. I get board on the road!

SURELY you wouldn't be typing on your laptop while driving down the road, would you??? I'VE never done that... LOL... :drive1:

454bug

11-09-2008, 08:50 PM

Well, a nice update...

I was waiting on Frank to get back from SEMA to order my Fuel Injection setup and my Hogan EFI intake and throttle body...

Last week, one of P-T.com's members, surreyboy, contacted me. He informed me he had changed his hood on his awesome, yellow '69 Camaro from an "SS" hood to a Cowl Induction hood. Since he gained a bunch more hood clearance he wanted to go back to his single plane intake and Dominator carb that came on his World Products 572 engine. He offered to sell me his complete EFI system. It has less than 500 miles on the EFI package. It wasn't the exact intake manifold or the EFI company I was planning to buy but the savings, compared to buying new, was too much to pass up...

The system includes: the Hogan Racing manifold and fuel rails, Accufab 1,700 cfm billet throttle body, MSD precision 72# injectors, MSD distributor, MSD Crank Trigger, MSD Digital 7 ignition box, MSD coil, Big Stuff 3 Fuel Injection ECU, BS3 wire harnesses, BS3 wide-band O2 sensor, idle air motor, water temp sensor, air temp sensor, map sensor, etc., etc.

Surreyboy was pulling everything off his car this weekend... it should get to me by the end of the week!!! :woot:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/255945-1.jpg

78 Type-LT

11-10-2008, 01:25 AM

Bugs have always been cool in my book..

but a V8 BB bug with a PT feel...

outstanding...:bananna2:

454bug

11-21-2008, 08:55 PM

Hey guys,

A couple more items came in this week...

First, my new Dynoflo all-aluminum 632 cubic inch short block came in!!! :bananna2:

I weighed the complete shortblock... 282 pounds... :drool:

I can't believe that myself and a buddy actually picked up the short block by hand, out of my truck bed, and stabbed it on to my engine stand!!! WITHOUT using a lift!!!

A few particulars: 4.60" bore, 4.75" stroke, 10.5:1 ceramic-coated JE pistons (with 121cc combustion chambers), Mahle rings, Eagle H-beam rods, Eagle crank, Comp Cams solid roller cam (.715"/.714" lift, 266/275 duration at .050", 112 lobe separation)... with this displacement we are planning on a power range of 3,000-7,000 rpm's...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC02994-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC02981-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC02979-1.jpg

454bug

11-21-2008, 09:26 PM

The second item that came in was my fuel injection system...

The particulars include:

Hogan's Racing manifold, Accufab elliptical Cobra single-blade throttle body (1,700 cfm), K&N Air Filter, Big Stuff 3 (BS3) ECU, BS3 injector harness, BS3 main harness, MSD 72# Precision injectors, MSD Billet Distributor, MSD Crank Trigger, MSD Digital 7-plus Ignition box, MSD HVC Coil, Single wide-band O2 sensor, and other miscellaneous sensors.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03001-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03008-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03005-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC02999-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03000-1.jpg

454bug

11-21-2008, 09:33 PM

My AFR heads are with the car in Mobile, Alabama being used for mock-up purposes... I have an extra tall-deck cast iron short block that I have been using for the re-positioning of the motor mount brackets as well as getting the custom headers built from...

I wanted to see how the intake looked on top of the block...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03010-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03012-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03015-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03019-1.jpg

454bug

11-21-2008, 09:52 PM

With my previous 468 engine I was running a Team-G single-plane intake, a 1" spacer, a Holley Dominator carb, and an Edelbrock Triangle-shaped Air Filter Housing with a 2" tall element. As you can see from the picture it barely cleared the stock hood...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DragRaces122-1.jpg

For "center of gravity" reasons we are lowering the new engine even further in the car. We are moving the motor mount's new brackets further down on the chassis...

I was also interested to see how much shorter the new fuel injection system was than the old carb setup... here are a couple of pictures to illustrate the difference... I had an extra Victor intake sitting around to imitate the height of the Team-G intake. I used some wood spacers to simulate the 1" tall carb spacer, I had an extra Dominator, and this is my old air filter assembly.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03030-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03035-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03036-1.jpg

As you can see there is right at a 4" height difference between the two systems... :smoke:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/DSC03039-1.jpg

chaz75

11-22-2008, 05:52 AM

looks cool, but will it stay put thats a lot of motor for a bug. chaz

454bug

11-22-2008, 07:32 AM

looks cool, but will it stay put thats a lot of motor for a bug. chaz

It's all about throttle control... :drive1:

I've got as much rubber on the ground as any other car on the road.

I'm up the for the challenge!!! :evil:

Motown 454

11-22-2008, 10:26 AM

Wow More motor and extra room Thats the way it should always work out lol Awesome engine keep us posted
Wayne

454bug

11-24-2008, 12:28 PM

Wow More motor and extra room Thats the way it should always work out lol Awesome engine keep us posted
Wayne

Thanks Wayne!

Frank at Prodigy said the new Wilwood brakes should be in any day now... When they come in we will move forward with the front suspension modifications (new spindles and replace/relocate the upper control arms). We will install the new Sweet power steering rack (12:1) and construct the radiator mounts.

My new road-racing oil pan came in with the new short block so I can mock up the motor, with the correct ground clearance, and get the new motor supports welded in.

At the rear of the car when the brakes come in we will be able get our rearend housing measurement and get the rear setup ordered.

Pagani

11-26-2008, 01:12 PM

I love your project
Dare to be diffrent!!

454bug

11-30-2008, 12:39 AM

Wow nice tires . Do you know if they make 345 30 19 in a street tread? You'll need all that rubber .

Well, I have been doin' a lot of searching and I think I finally found my street tires... :twothumbs

I found a company that will "groove" the Hoosier DOT R6 and/or A6 tires... Now, I just have to decide between the A6 and R6 for street tires... The A6's softer compound might be a better everyday tire for my car's power... They are instantly sticky... The R6's have to be driven hard (or spun) to get enough heat in them to really stick (kinda like the Toyo R888's). The A6's will overheat if used on a road course and possibly blister. I'll still have my extra set of R6's for the open track days. :drive:

The only downside (other than tire wear) to using the A6's is they are so sticky the really pick up a lot of rocks... :guilty: That might be pretty rough on the paint job... I'm not really hip on using mud flaps on the car...

I read where a guy has used both of them on his supercharged Corvette. He got right at 5,000 miles on the R6's and about 2,000 miles on the A6's... It would probably take me a few years to put that many miles on my car...

You can go from just a little grooving to a lot of grooving... The extra grooving would help with hydroplaning but I sure don't plan on having my car out in the rain!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/groove_hoosier-1.jpg

My favorite is this one with "medium" treads...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/groove_RS6-1.jpg

TonyL

11-30-2008, 02:14 AM

Cooool

Tiger

11-30-2008, 05:37 AM

this project is soo cool that I check out every update.

How much will the complete aluminum engine weigh?

CptKlutz

11-30-2008, 07:33 AM

With the list of pro's and con's you're answering yourself: medium cut R6 :) I'm only used to R888's and when they are hot they pic up everything and hurl it around. Not what I'd want on the street!

454bug

11-30-2008, 08:23 AM

With the list of pro's and con's you're answering yourself: medium cut R6 :) I'm only used to R888's and when they are hot they pic up everything and hurl it around. Not what I'd want on the street!

I really think you're right. Something has to give when the "cons" outweigh the "pros"...

Medium Cut R6's probably make the most sense. :twothumbs

454bug

11-30-2008, 04:46 PM

this project is soo cool that I check out every update.

How much will the complete aluminum engine weigh?

Thanks Andre'.

The complete motor should weigh right at 460-480 pounds, depending on accessories... that's about 20-40 pounds heavier than a Gen IV LS-7. With my light weight car (2,500-2600 pounds) I will even use ballast weight (if needed) to acheive an optimal 50/50 weight distribution... :twothumbs It should be close as per our preliminary numbers...

With the advent of Aluminum brackets, pulleys, intakes, heads, and blocks it has really improved the Hp/weight trade-off of a big block Chevy... It's not your dad's old boat anchor anymore... :naughty:

454bug

12-01-2008, 09:45 PM

As you guys may know, I have intended on using the Forgeline ZX3R wheels for my street wheels... I have been waiting on my new Wilwood brakes to come in to verify backspacing on my front end prior to ordering. I had planned on using the matte black version... After discussing this with Frank at Prodigy he strongly suggested going with a different outer rim color to not have the wheel "wash out" the color and have some contrast... Therefore, I had planned on using the titanium outer rims like the new wheels Steve had put on Penny recently...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/product_photoxlarge_image231-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/pennyforgeline2-1.jpg

But now, I am really intrigued by a new wheel that Forgeline just came out with... The EV3... They are actually even lighter than the ZX3R racing wheels and I think they have a "tougher" look as well... :evil:

If I went this route I would probably combine these two to get the black centers and the titanium outer rims. Whatcha guys think??? :woot:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/EV3R20black20and20polished-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/EV3R20Titanium-1.jpg

454bug

12-01-2008, 10:12 PM

Another option for the outer rims instead of the titanium powdercoating would be a "brushed" finish... and they also have black bolts available instead of the silver ones...

I have "de-chromed" the rest of the car... I really don't want anything "shiny" on the car...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/VR3PBKKBOLT-1.jpg

craigs73

12-01-2008, 10:15 PM

i like the top right wheel it looks sweet are you still going with the color combo in the rendering

454bug

12-01-2008, 10:31 PM

i like the top right wheel it looks sweet are you still going with the color combo in the rendering

Yeah, the red/black combo is the plan... I will probably have some kind of small transition stripe between the two colors (gray, silver, orange, etc.).

When I get closer to working on the body/paint I am sure I will get one of these awesome "rendering" guys to work up a really nice design to follow.

I have to keep the "Satan's Lady Bug" image! :evil:

454bug

12-01-2008, 10:40 PM

Here's another good example of the setup I was originally going with. It represents my application well because of the shallow outer lip, the red caliper, and the color combination...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/Front20wheel20close20up-1.jpg

CptKlutz

12-02-2008, 01:15 AM

I'm all for the top right combo too. Killer! :machine:

Young Gun

12-02-2008, 08:31 AM

top right is definitely pretty tough...This is gonna be a crazy cool beetle!

Pony Exp.305

12-02-2008, 09:45 AM

I never thought of Beetle could build like this:jawdrop:..
:cool::cool:Awesome!!!

skatinjay27

12-03-2008, 09:35 PM

i personally think ALL matte black with a red pin strip!!! that would really add the the evil look.

bigguy

12-22-2008, 03:50 PM

Is there any possible pics of your chassis prior to the body the first time you built the car.

ProdigyCustoms

12-22-2008, 04:04 PM

Brushed lips for me on that car.

joe440

12-22-2008, 05:09 PM

this thing is going to be so badass, looking great!

454bug

12-23-2008, 10:48 PM

Is there any possible pics of your chassis prior to the body the first time you built the car.

Hey Bigguy,

The car was originally built in 1985. I didn't buy the car until 1995. So, I don't have any original pictures. It is a 2"x3" rectangular-tube chassis. It is a "perimeter" frame setup. It is 28" (outside-to-outside dimension) in the engine bay. It is roughly 48" (outside/outside dimension) in the cockpit area. Presently, the rear area is 30" (outside/outside dimension). There are a lot of examples of frames being used on the V8 bug site @ www.v8bugs.com.

I am installing a new Chris Alston Chassisworks rear clip in the car. It's their canted 4-link rearend setup. Because of their suspension geometry, the minimum-width of their subframe has to be 34" (outside/outside dimension). Therefore, I will have to move the inner wheeltubs out 2" on each side. Since I never plan to go back to a "Pro-Street" setup that should be fine. My old pro-street tire had a section-width of 18". The widest road-course tire I would ever put on the car would have a section-width of 16" (Trans Am series/SCCA GT-1 size - 27"x14.5"x16") They have a section width of 16" and a tread width of 14.5".

I ordered the subframe last week. It should be in next week. My brakes FINALLY came in. I am tied up with family holiday stuff for the next couple of weeks. We will start mocking up a lot of stuff and start chassis fabrication during the first part of January.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/Chassisworkssubframe1copy-1.jpg

bigguy

01-03-2009, 07:55 PM

Thanks for the info. I am in the planning stages with mine. I had a prostreetbug frame once and miss it everyday(had to sell it for the house bills). Soon though very soon.

Tiger

01-04-2009, 08:15 AM

Hey,

I hadnt seen your reply.
With that weight to HP ratio that car will be one hell of a car.
you should ship it over here and make some laps at the Nurburgring when done!

its so light that maybe it can be boxed and sent like air freight... well most likely not.....:1st:

André

Thanks Andre'.

The complete motor should weigh right at 460-480 pounds, depending on accessories... that's about 20-40 pounds heavier than a Gen III LS-7. With my light weight car (2,500-2600 pounds) I will even use ballast weight (if needed) to acheive an optimal 50/50 weight distribution... :twothumbs It should be close as per our preliminary numbers...

With the advent of Aluminum brackets, pulleys, intakes, heads, and blocks it has really improved the Hp/weight trade-off of a big block Chevy... It's not your dad's old boat anchor anymore... :naughty:

BMF Machine

01-04-2009, 01:01 PM

Man, this is getting CooL! I can't wait to see it AlivE, the overkill, on that motor, is GreaT!

singer69

01-04-2009, 01:41 PM

Incredible work of art you got there! Can't wait to see the next update.

454bug

01-04-2009, 07:11 PM

454bug

01-04-2009, 07:18 PM

Man, this is getting CooL! I can't wait to see it AlivE, the overkill, on that motor, is GreaT!

Hey Kevin,

I still don't have the "ponies" that a lot of the turbo cars on this site have... but hopefully, being naturally-aspirated, my horsepower will be more fluid, "useable", and less complicated (plumbing, heat management, electronics, etc.)...

454bug

01-04-2009, 07:31 PM

Incredible work of art you got there! Can't wait to see the next update.

Hey Andy,

Thanks a LOT for the encouragement! In these tough times, it really helps to get some positive feedback to tell that little voice in your head that it's OKAY to spend this much money on a toy... :)

I picked up my rear frame work on Friday! It looks awesome! Like so many of the other manufacturers used on this site, Chris Alston's stuff is first rate! :1st:

I went on and spent the extra money for the 4" holes in the crossmember. I am planning on a side exit, "boom-tube" style exhaust, but I will have the holes in the frame just in case I ever want to change back to the 3-1/2" exhaust all the way out the back as I had it previously.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03414-1.jpg

454bug

01-04-2009, 07:35 PM

Seeing pictures of the Chassisworks kit doesn't do justice to seeing it in person... The bars are MASSIVE!! And the machine work is REALLY nice...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03443-1.jpg

You can get a better feel for how large, but light, these arms are when you see them to scale against my body...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03459-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03447-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03454-1.jpg

454bug

01-04-2009, 07:37 PM

Their pivot system is REALLY cool as well... They have spherical joints in them but they have a very thin "polymer" layer between the joint (on both sides) and the bar to dampen the road noise and vibration...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03462-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03463-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03449-1.jpg

Roadbuster

01-04-2009, 07:44 PM

Those are nice! all that milled aluminum! :yum::drool:

The project is progressing nicely!

Jon

454bug

01-04-2009, 08:17 PM

Those are nice! all that milled aluminum! :yum::drool:

The project is progressing nicely!

Jon

Hey Jon,

Yeah, the millwork is SO nice... Strong but light...

I am trying to keep the project rolling as fast as I can between waiting on parts and traveling with my job...

As if I don't have enough going on in my life right now, I have also decided to take on another project just for the shear fun of it with my buddies... I purchased a 1991 Mustang fastback with a 302/C4/3.73 setup for $400.00!! I got 2 sets of doors with the car, a brand new radiator, a MSD 6A ignition box, 3 carbs, and a LOT of other spare parts with the purchase... We will be racing in 3 of the "24 Hours of Lemons" races this year... I sure hope the car survives all three races! Outside of the "safety equipment" (roll cage, racing seat, window net, brakes, tires, wheels, etc.) the ENTIRE car can't be worth more than $500.00... TALL order to be sure!! They penalize you one lap for every $10.00 they feel you spent over the $500.00 limit... They call it their "BSF" (bull s**t factor)...

I have talked to a few guys that have raced in them last year and they said there is NO other expenditure you can make to match the FUN, LAUGHTER, and EXCITEMENT of spending roughly 15-16 hours on a road course. For the shear "bang for your buck" there is NO comparison to anything else... Where else are you going to get that much seat time learning to road race...

If you want a good laugh, go check out their website, www.24hoursoflemons.com (http://www.24hoursoflemons.com). The "rules" will crack you up! If you want some more laughs go to youtube.com and type in "24 hours of Lemons" and the videos will make your sides hurt from laughing. This year they will start the races with about 120-130 cars on the track... Can you imagine 30-40 cars coming into a sharp corner at the same time??? There are a lot of foreign beaters in the races with 4-bangers in them... Most of the V-8 cars are heavy, former taxis and cop cars (Impalas, Crown Victories, etc.). I should have as much power as them but with 1,000-1,500 pounds less weight... and I was lucky enough to find a car with 3.73 gears in it from the factory... They have a limit of 190-rating, or higher, on the tire compounds. We will use these "mud-and-snow" tires (225/60/15 - 25.6" tall on 15"x7" rims) for the Saturday carnage and when the crowd thins out on Sunday we will hit them with our 200-rating tires and push harder... The name of the game on Saturday is to just SURVIVE until Sunday... My 225/50/15 tires that we have in the 200-rating are only 23 inches tall so the 3.73 gears will be more like 4.00 gears... It should be a LOT of fun!!! :)

I am changing all the oils and filters in the engine and transmission. I cut one full coil out of the rear springs to lower the back... We'll see how the ride height looks before we cut the front springs any... With the expenditure limit you can't afford to buy aftermarket lowering springs or any new suspension parts... Since this car started it's life as a 4-cylinder car it had a wimpy 7/8" front sway bar in it. I purchased a 1.3" solid sway bar from a V8 Mustang convertible for $20.00 on ebay. We are putting all new brake rotors/drums/calipers/wheel cylinders/pads/shoes/hardware in the brake system. We are running an outboard trans cooler with it's own electric fan. We cut the bottom out of the C4 trans pan and we are adding 4" of sheetmetal to act as a deep sump pan. Brakes and automatic transmission are the two biggest culprits to not having a good finish... We are going to fashion some front brake cooling ducts out of "Dryer ducting" to keep the cost down so we don't get dinged for penalty laps...

We have a race in Houston in February, one in Louisiana in June, and another race in Houston in October... WE CAN'T WAIT!!! :6gears:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03428-1.jpg

jackfrost

01-06-2009, 07:52 AM

that's awesome. I'd love to do that someday. keep us informed on how you do - maybe start a new thread just for the Lemon!

Roadbuster

01-10-2009, 08:47 PM

Sounds like you have you work cut out for you!

Read the rules, does selling extra parts give you credit toward the $500 price?

Good luck with the race!

x2 on starting a build thread!

Jon

454bug

01-10-2009, 11:04 PM

x2 on starting a build thread!

Jon

Well, I didn't think there would be enough interest in another thread, but I will give it a try...

If there isn't any interest I will just stop posting...

Check it out here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51501

See ya over there!! :drive1:

Tiger

01-11-2009, 12:38 PM

Ray,

good that you did a new thread.

please update the Ladybug thread as well tho

454bug

01-16-2009, 09:25 PM

Hey guys,

We got to do a little fabrication this week. We mocked up my new fenders, verified wheel/tire clearances, and figured out what width axle housing I needed to order. It looks like all the clearances we had previously figured will work just fine.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03467-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03465-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03469-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03521-1.jpg

454bug

01-16-2009, 09:40 PM

As previously stated at the beginning of this thread I had started my suspension upgrades with a continued "Pro Street" theme. Then I decided to go down a much different path for the car with the present "Pro Touring" setup. So, that meant double-work and double-money but it was something that had to happen to make the transition.

Initially, I ordered everything EXTRA narrow to work under the stock front fenders. When I decided to go wide I needed to re-order and revamp my previous suspension changes. Here are a few photos of what we did last year and what we re-did this week.

First, this is what we ended up with about a year ago...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00940-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00944-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00946-1.jpg

And this is what we did this week... We had to cut out the old crossmember that we had previously installed and weld in a new one that had a 3" wider track...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03486-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03488-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03522-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03523-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03529-1.jpg

454bug

01-16-2009, 10:09 PM

For a number of reasons we have decided to work with a different style upper control arm. It will still have the screw-in Chrysler-type ball joints as before but be set up where alignment issues can be dealt with much easier. Some of my buddy's racing-style items are being incorporated into the setup. We will install hardware that uses "pucks" in both the A-arm mounting brackets as well as the A-arm cross shafts. The puck's hole placements are "indexed" to adjust height and caster respectively. The new setup will also use aluminum spacers for Camber alignment.

We used the control arms shown below for mock-up purposes. The actual ones I need to order will have a different cross shaft as well as being shorter. For header clearance reasons, we will actually mount the control arm on the outboard side of the mounting brackets.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03489-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03490-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03545-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03546-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03557-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03548-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03553-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03554-1.jpg

454bug

01-16-2009, 10:25 PM

There's a big difference between my old brakes and my new ones (11-3/4" vs 14")(4-piston Dynalites vs 6-piston Superlites)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/DSC00946-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03551-1.jpg

I have taken off the QA1's, will be selling them, and replace them with Penske 8300-series double-adjustable aluminum shocks with remote canisters...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/8300Big-1.jpg

454bug

01-16-2009, 10:31 PM

We mocked up my intake, heads, and short block... :cool:

We need to now lower it into the car, choose an install height, and weld in my new motor mount supports. We are going to lower it in the frame as low as possible...

We have a local guy who will build the new sheetmetal inner fenders as well as build some headers from scratch for the new setup. Since I have a "tall deck" big block, the AFR heads have revised/relocated exhaust ports, and the size primaries I have to use (2-1/4"), there are no off-the-shelf headers to use. We'll probably build them out of Stainless Steel and have them ceramic-coated.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03560-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03561-1.jpg

Memphis

01-16-2009, 11:38 PM

Very nice :). Whats up with that Rx7?

1971CHEVELLE

01-17-2009, 03:21 AM

Wow...this is an awesome project, :1st:

454bug

01-17-2009, 08:55 AM

They are constructing a SCCA race car for one of the modified classes. Turbocharged with two rotors. They're making 550 hp and I think they believe they will weigh around 2,000 pounds. Another cool project! :cool:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03504-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03510-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03508-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03509-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03506-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03507-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03505-1.jpg

craigs73

01-17-2009, 11:03 AM

:1st::bsjerk: thats going to be a bad a$$ bug

icebird84

01-17-2009, 12:37 PM

both are :1st:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03510-1.jpg

Mr.VENGEANCE

01-17-2009, 02:16 PM

is that an RX7?.. specs?

454bug

01-17-2009, 06:08 PM

is that an RX7?.. specs?

Hey Amir,

Yes, it's a RX7. I really don't have any specs on it. I will get in contact with the guy who owns the car and will get him to pass on some information.

slowcamaro

01-17-2009, 06:35 PM

454bug

01-17-2009, 10:01 PM

Coincidentally, I was just looking at a thread on cage design over at corner-carvers where those roll cage backstays on the rx-7 don't meet the certain organizational rulebook qualifications.

Apparently to meet the rules they have to terminate on the floor of strut tower itself, not a bar between the two. Might want to flip through the books if she needs approved.

I checked out what you were talking about. I see there is a possibility for exceptions... I'll pass on this information and see if they have crossed that bridge...

preston

01-18-2009, 03:39 PM

454bug

01-18-2009, 05:48 PM

I hate putting doubts in anyone's head but given your massive big block power etc. I do get mildly nervous about that LCA - the mounting pivots are so darn close together. You might think about building a custom LCA that has a little wider spread to it. Check out Art Morrison C5 based chassis and note how they use a threaded tube pierced through a crossmember like yours to widen the mounting space, and hten support it with frame tabs to put the mounting bushings in double shear. And of course they triangulate the threaded tube. I couldn't link the pictures but look closely at this page

http://artmorrison.com/layout.php?y=frontclip/c5vette/&x=index

I assume that LCA is using one of the standard ball joints in which case finding a mounting cup to build a custom arm wouldn't be that big of a deal. That thing just doesn't have a wide enough footpring to be slamming on the monster 14" brakes at 170 mph. And while mounting the pivots in single shear isn't the end of the world if hte mounting bolt is thick enough, its also not as stiff as a double shear mount.

Love the car I would have never guessed in a 100 years you could fit a big block and all that in there - who knew the wheelbase was that long ? And thing is going to look absolutely sinister with the top quality wheels and two tone paint.

Hey Preston,

I appreciate your observations and concern. I, too, wouldn't want the LCA's to be the "weakest link"... They are the standard Art Morrison lower control arms from their weld-in IFS kit. Outside of their kits that use the C5/C6 front arms these are the arms used in their "Max G" frame kits... To answer your question about the ball joints... AME uses the standard Chrysler screw-in ball joints... They are very common in the aftermarket and racing world...

I don't profess to be any kind of expert on this subject for sure... They really didn't look that narrow until we installed some of my buddy's circle-track racing upper A-ams on the setup... The racing arms are SO much wider (and thicker) than the original Art Morrison UCA's. I believe the AME LCA's have 1" tubes and their UCA's are 7/8"... I think the racing UCA's are probably 1-1/8" diameter... as well as being wider... I agree the combination looks a little odd...

I will double-check with my chassis guy as well as calling Art Morrison tomorrow and quiz them about the discussed loading factors and if they feel their arms will be sufficient or need to be widened. I am sure we could look in one of my buddy's race catalogs and come up with wider width LCA's to better match the upgraded UCA's.

In reference to your comment about "single shear" versus "double shear" it probably wouldn't be that hard to fab some end plates just outside the control arm bushings. I did look at the AME C5/C6 setup you were referencing. It looks like they installed a plate across the front of the suspension that ties the front of the LCA's to each other, side-to-side. They then have two holes that fastens this plate to the two Mustang II-type rack-and-pinion mounts that are on my crossmember as shown below.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/DSC03488-1.jpg

Since we will be installing a Sweet Manafacturing rack-and-pinion setup these mounts won't be used anyway. We will be fabricating a mounting pad for the Sweet rack... we could probably just incorporate a plate to tie the LCA's to each other into that design...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/00580345-1.jpg

Thanks again for the concern and comments!

BTW, your Mustang is REALLY bada$$ also!! VERY COOL project... It's one of my favorites!! :1st:

454bug

02-02-2009, 09:17 PM

Hey guys,

Well, we got some work done this weekend. While waiting for my new front suspension components to come in we decided to work on some of the interior and rear frame/suspension areas.

First of all, the old digital dash and console had to go... it is a little too "street rod" for the new direction for the car...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC00968-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC00969-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC00970-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC01943-1.jpg

454bug

02-02-2009, 09:22 PM

I received my new seats recently. I went with Kirkey's "Deluxe" Road Racing seats.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC03542-1.jpg

We started reviewing the placement of the existing roll cage. We needed to decide if we could just add additional bars to the original cage or did we need to remove the cage and start over.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC01945-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC01948-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC01949-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC01947-1.jpg

454bug

02-02-2009, 09:40 PM

We placed the seats in the car. The seats have a 20 degree "layback" to them. To get a comfortable driving position with the new seats and have the proper placement of the main hoop and seat brace we decided we needed to rip out the old cage and start over.

We really didn't like anything about the old cage. Just like the rest of the car, we knew they built the cage out of REALLY thick material. We didn't like how the designer of the old cage didn't attempt to hug the A-pillars very close... back to the drawing board...

We looked at the new Chris Alston rear sub-frame and where it was falling out on the short wheelbase. We didn't like the placement of the front crossmember and frame rails in front of the axle. Therefore, we cut 9-1/2" out of the frame rails and re-installed the cross member on the frame rails. That made the cross member install just 3/4" in front of the lower control arm's front mounts...

With the new cross member falling out in the right place to mount the main hoop on we decided to cut the prehistoric, over-built crossmember out of the car... You would NOT believe what kind of material the previous owner had placed in this car!! The frame rails are 2"x3" tubes but with 3/16" thick material! The floor boards in the car are 1/4" steel!!! The roll cage material is 1/4" thick also!!! Check out this photo. You can see the 1/4" material on the main hoop that was cut out. We figure this one crossmember weighs around 70-80 pounds!! That's 3/8" steel plate shown across the crossmember bent and formed to the contour of the center of the crossmember/tunnel... The drive shaft loop is made out of 5/8" flat bar!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/DSC00989-1.jpg