Anyone else keep costs tracked on their projects?

[Nine Ball]

Just curious, but how many of you guys (non-pro builders) monitor costs involved on your project vehicles? I've kept track of the costs to build my '69, even though I built it myself. I added in an estimated amount of labor per section (probably not enough) and added in a normal shop rate of $65/hour.

Summary: It would cost about $78K to duplicate my car if you paid someone to build a clone, using an authentic X55 SS. If you can turn your own wrenches, about $64K. Here is a spreadsheet that I use to keep track of everything:

http://www.ls1tech.com/69Camaro/Project69costs.xls

Pretty sick huh? Those costs just add up quickly!

Tony

[Steve1968LS2]

I immediatly shred then burn all receipts for my car build.. I then slam my head into a wall so that I loose my short term memory just incase I am interrogated by my wife.

;)

[sporter]

Keep track of costs? You're not married are you? I'm with Steve, destroy all evidence!

Actually, I've owned the car long enough to have replaced the entire drivetrain several times and changed the "theme" of the car at least 3 times. I have over 9 years of receipts and they fill a 3 drawer filing cabinet. Gets kinda depressing to track the actual costs. Better to just consider how much the car has appreciated since you bought it. And how much fun you've had with it.

[Nine Ball]

I'm engaged, but my lady enjoys the hobby too. She daily-drives a 6-spd ram air LS1 Trans Am.

[Bill Howell]

Ya'll are too funny.
Tony, my wife keeps up with all that. Since she does all the books for our businesses she needs those tax deductions. She has a detailed tally of every car we have owned since we got married. Toys are ok if you can deduct them right?

[Nine Ball]

Toys are a very nice "business expense". Its marketing, right?

[parsonsj]

I've done the same for II Much, except for labor. I'm in for about $40K, with engine, body/paint, and interior to go.

Estimated labor costs over the past 4.5 years: say 10 hrs per week (conservative) * 225 weeks * $65/hour is over $140K.

But ... I did everything at least 3 times, so divide by 3: $45K or so.

Now I'm depressed. Thanks Tony. :dunno:

jp

[ViperBlue68]

:help!: hey guys am I missing something :rolleyes5 how do I write off some of my costs on my taxes?
fill me in! :secret: thanks

[Nine Ball]

If you are a business owner in the automotive market, you can write some of it off. Other than that, you are SOL.

John, labor is the killer. Most guys that don't build the cars themselves learn that quickly!

[MangeMD]

My 67 Camaro is only mildly modified and it's gonna bite me for about 35-36k.
(of course all of my sheetmetal is NOS, which hurt)

[Steve Chryssos]

Cost tracking is also essential if you want to get a good appraisal at insurance time. Excel works wonders since it can run totals on sub-categories as well as grand totals.

[rocketrod]

WOW $65 an hour!!! I just called DSE yesterday and they said their hourly rate is $45. You guys must be really good. LOL
Anyway I do keep an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of $$ and help me stay focused on what I need to buy for the project versus winging it. It is also nice when you go to sell the vehicle and have a detailed list of parts for prospective buyers.

[MuscleRodz]

Cost tracking? If you can call a shoebox full of receipts cost tracking. I don't dare total it up. I could probably have bought something ready to drive and saved the aggrevation and years of spitting on the dash goin V-room V-room.

Mike

[Andrew McBride]

Tony,

Your not alone. I have kept up with my costs to a T. were talking cents here. Although I haven't updated my reciepts lately I have kept a close cost. I think it's cool to see the numbers. It's a hobby so you can't get mad at going overboard

The only thing I haven't figured in is hours. but parts ect. yes. I have kept a good tally of hours also. I am around 13,000 and hadn't finished buying all my suspension upgrades and I also have interior, and paint before I am done.

Andrew

[Nine Ball]

Glad to see I'm not the only nut in the shell. HAHA!

$65/hr is a normal shop rate in the Houston area. That probably varies region to region depending on overhead costs and cost of living differences. When I calculated labor, I only added up the amount of time it took to do each task one time, without any re-work. Needless to say, alot of rework and 'ooops' work was not captured ;)

[TPI Monte SS]

Hmmm, I'm in for pretty cheap compared to most of the builds here. I bought the car for $2600 as a roller, then sold the rear and wheels/tires for $1300. So, cost of car =$1300. I've got maybe $4500 invested in the motor and exhaust, $1500 for the T5, clutch, bellhousing, etc. $1300 for wheels/tires, and maybe $1200 for my suspension rebuild. Not bad, right around $10K! Of course, this isn't a frame-off resto, with mega-dollar parts, but something that my friend and I built on my driveway and can beat on any time it's nice out.

[Conekiller13]

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Parts cost over last 7 years is around 30 -35k starting with an $800.00 car sans drivetrain. Of course not doing things to level I really wanted the first time around has led to plenty re-doing things..........that's really expensive. :sad4:

[Martin71RS]

I think I have allready spent...ehhhh a lot....Problem I have is each parts has to be shipped to me ($$$) and I have to pay taxes (approx 25%) over the amount+shipping....so you can understand it adds up quickly...

lets say I could have build my car in the states for about $10k ~ $15k less.....

[TonyHuntimer]

I stopped keeping track ages ago. It's bad enough that my wife knows how much I have spent on the car in the last 3 years since we combined our finances. :)

Your shop rates are low. My time on my car is worth more to me just because of the area I live in. GOOD shops in San Jose area are charging between $100 to $125/hr. I've been doing work on my car for a bargain of $85/hr. :seizure:

Maybe I'll add everything up again. I keep track of my hours by way of time stamps on photos I take. :)

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[StRacerDuke]

Being a Financial Nerd I have kept track of all my costs for the past 4 cars I have built down to the penny. I save every reciept (even the ones from the hardware stores for materials). Each project has thier own file, with totals when I'm done. It's strange to see the total amount down to the penny vs. what you originally projected. My first project that I completed I had just over 21K in and sold it for 13.5K. I learned real quick about how fast the spending can add up.

The last two projects I sold as rollers before moving over to Italy for the year. I don't have the exact numbers (as the records are still in CA), but I took in an exact profit on both of them. (Labor not included because it's just a hobby)

My motto: "If you don't know your numbers, you don't know where you're going"

Ciao,

[Tiger]

I know that my numbers are so high (same situation as Martin, I live in Europe so shipping and taxes kills me) that I could have bought something finished many times.
I tend to not talk about it but to my GF (she uses a propane flame to make me talk) I usually just tell the catalog price when interrogated.
I do keep the recipts in a super locked box with five alarms and other safety stuff (hehe) but add all the sums together... well, hell no!

Ciao
André

[Rick Dorion]

I don't track closely but figure I'm into the car for about $35K, my labor being free. Rust repair has cost me a bit but I went into this knwoing it was there but wanting this specific car. All mechanical work I do except for some specialized things ( to me ) like differential and tranny building. I figure the cost won't be too bad normalized over the infinite time I hope to have the car - my therapy program.

[Mark Antrim]

I've got everything in a file but refuse to look at it till the cars done.

[trapin]

Well....I'm not married to someone who is into Hot Rods. My wife looks at my car and she sees a new kitchen, or a new dining room and china set. Maybe a shopping spree at The Mall.

No sir....I have no idea what I've spent thus far and I intend to keep it that way.

[Happyfunballs]

I'm guily of a spreadsheet. I've got $20k before paint(did it myself), wheels and tires, interior, front end replacement parts, (67 Camaro RS vert).....oh, $2500 in restoring all of the parts for the top, and 25 other things.

$30K-$35K before it's all said and done. The most crap I get outta my wife is an eyeball roll.....she's alright.

[jay web]

I simply put it out of my head - - maybe when I'm done I will try to add it all up.

[Steve1968LS2]

Glad to see I'm not the only nut in the shell. HAHA!

$65/hr is a normal shop rate in the Houston area. That probably varies region to region depending on overhead costs and cost of living differences. When I calculated labor, I only added up the amount of time it took to do each task one time, without any re-work. Needless to say, alot of rework and 'ooops' work was not captured ;)

Good shops out here get $75 an hour.. probley cheaper to ship it to DS&E ;)

Shops like Foose and such get quite a bit more than that.. then again rent is expensive out here..

[Roadrage David]

i am from the same place martin71rs is from .im a coupke of parts short, my estimate is . 70/80 k when finished

[68BNUT]

Should I add in all the beer also?? :Alchy:

[Rick Dorion]

Foose recently said on Rides he gets $70/hr.

[mdprovee]

I try not to know what I have in mine..I think I would get depressed to know that much money went into a car that doesnt run yet.

Mike

[CAMAROBOY69]

Tony we had a similar thread like this a while back where everyone posted the approx price of their car.
To answer the question, yes I keep track of everything I buy in an excell program (not including labor).
I think the last time I checked I had around $15,000 in parts, engine, T-56 tranny, rear end, interior, wheels, tires, body panels and all the other goodies like the RS conversion. If I added the price in labor at approx $65.00 hr in labor I would guess it would cost someone over $25,000 to pay someone to build a car to duplicate mine. Especially with the 2002 trans am dash, fully functional seats and seatbelts front and rear. Some of you probably say yeah right but if you havent done it then you have no idea whats involved especially in labor by itself.
Conclusion, if you want to save a butt load of money then do as much of it yourself like Tony and several others of us have done. I also think there is much more pride involved in building the car yourself.

[Steve1968LS2]

Foose recently said on Rides he gets $70/hr.

I find that hard to believe since Hot Rods and Custom stuff gets $75 and hour for paint/body and $95 hour for fab work..

Maybe Foose has a cheap hourly rate and makes it up in volume ;)

[Rick Dorion]

I was surprised. Of course, this was in the context of being asked how much to build some of the high end cars he does. The staements were in the high 100,000 -> 200,000 range and he commented "I get parts and labor and I charge $70/hr. Parts are expensive and I have alot of hours in." Maybe it was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

[Gonzostyle]

I am also guilty of the spreadsheet virus. Although my spreadsheet is fairly involved. I have a summary page with several supporting pages that are dedicated to different parts of the car (ie drivetrain, interior etc). The summary page updates automatically once something is changed or added in a sub page. I track both labor and parts cost and can calculate profit or loss should the project be sold.
I have found the best way for me to keep track of hours is to keep a small clip board handy (also works well for remembering parts you need to buy).

-Jeremie

[Blaster11]

For the first time I have kept track and am scared to death! I am 22K in to it and that was starting with a $1200.00 car with a long way to go. The spreadsheet has allowed me to track where I am going and what has been bought, since everything is still in boxes, has helped me tremendously. I am also keeping track of vendors, part #'s, manufacturers, with web links. Hopefully someday I will get my website done so I can post pictures with the spreadsheet in case anyone wants to duplicate what I have done or just want to know the wheel backspacing. Will I do it on the next project, probably, although painful very useful.

Bruce

[bnoon]

As long as I don't go over my $400 spending limit a month I don't care what the grand total will be. Though with the cheap cost of parts for my car and by doing all of the work myself, I can't see this build going over maybe $10,000 being totally done... of course, by the time it's "done", trends will have changed, gas will be $5 a gallon, and it will be time to restore one of those "old" LS1 F-bodies.

[vintageracer]

When I built rebuilt my 66 Shelby GT-350 Vintage Road Race car I kept EVERY receipt down to the sand paper receipts. Before I hit the sum button on the Excell spreadsheet I made a "guess" of what I had spent. I was ONLY $10,000 off the real number. My "guess" was $10,000 to LOW versus actual cost.

So much for guessing!

Keep your reciepts. That way when you sell your car for the BIG BUCKS, you will be able to prove to "Uncle Sam" how much you really did spend otherwise he may consider the difference between what you paid for the car when originally purchased and what you sold it for as an "ordinary income" gain and wants his 30% of the profit! Don't laugh as that has happened.

This assumes that you really can sell a car for more than you paid for it!!!!

[bookends]

My wife and I just bought our first house about six months ago. I hide all the new parts for my car. the recipts get noted in code and destroyed.

[zbugger]

In the 9 years or so that I've had my car, I've spent about $8k on parts. Only labor was to put the front bushings in. Now this is all on parts that aren't just maintenance. That would take me easily over $10k. And now people know why my car doesn't run......

[ssx]

I have been "kinda" keeping track of what it is costing me for my 67' Nova to be finished. At this stage: LS1 and T56 installed, Vintage Air installed, Heidts front end installed. 4 wheel disc brakes, custom stainless gas tank all done. I'm in for about $28K which included the price of the car when I bought it. I still have to pay for the complete Airride w/ 4 shockwaves and the finishing up of the mini tub. Also the paint and interior. My best guess is it should all be done for about $45-$50K just depends on how crazy I want to get with the interior and stereo etc.

[69boo307]

My car is definitely on a much tighter budget than most folks' here. I have about $15k in it so far, about to have another $2500 in a new motor build. I have a stock interior except for the seats though, no AC, no stereo, no fancy bodywork, no frame-off stuff... It's a 'go' car, not a 'show' car :)

[derekf]

I'm keeping track of the cost on my website. Looks like my total last time I updated that page was 474.28 (I need to update again)...which doesn't help anyone if I don't buy any parts or bother to update the site. Real number now should be just shy of 1000.

I do not count my labor - this is a hobby, the time spent out in the garage is relaxing (and I'll keep telling myself that!).

Wife is not a car person, she looks at the amount spent on cars and sees all sorts of things that are not car... but I can also tell her to the penny how much her cigarettes cost us a year which typically shuts down any real complaints.

[phoenixdawg]

ok just tallyed mine up 68 Camaro vert, $17,800 total with 8500 being cost of the car and 3000 in paint. The other mods made have been front suspension rebuild, rear suspension rebuild. New wheels and tires. Stereo will be installed in the future. I suspect by the time I am all said and done, will have 30k total in the car.

[vanzuuk1]

I am in a running clean bodied 69 camaro that i got for a good price and have tweaked to my liking for just under twenty gs . I will spend another five on suspension and other tidbits and end up at twenty five grand. very lo tech but i hope to drive the snot out of it.

[ilovefirstgens]

Yea im somewhere imbetween all you guys I put it on a word document so I couldnt add it up, however I ended up doing just that a few weeks ago, with only parts as noone has done any of the work besides me $17,280.56 without shipping, including the $8,750 for the car itself.

I figured all the time working and researching I could easily have a full time job, so in a nutshell i could have gotten a used c5 vette for as much as i have in my camaro, thats sitting in the garage, but Ive had a ton of guys in vettes drool over it.

[Todds69]

It's too depressing, I use to keep all my records in a box and then in another box and so on. They have piled up over the years 17 to be exact, and now that I am married it's best left untold (if you know what I mean). She sees "some" money going out but not "all". She likes it that way, really.

[67RSSS502]

I keep all mine in an ever larger growing set of file folders in my office at the house.... When the car is truly finally done, I may add it up just to see or for the insurance guys, but until then I am afraid it would take the drive out of wanting it finished

I second the best not to know in case the Mrs.. asks as she has asked more than once how many sets of earrings for her I have spent on "the toy"....

Dion
67RSSS502

[Roger Poirier]

My wife would kill me if she new how much money I have put into the car over the past 30 years. I was married a general. Now I'm a private, 3rd class. Next step is a dishonerable discharge. Why save receipts. I swallow them at the counter when they give them to me. No edvidence that way. The rookie who's geting married, the ball is in your court now, after the wedding your in deep $%%^. Get it together man, before its too late!

[Jagarang]

I have every reciept for 10+ years. Adding them all up is a completely different story!!

:scared: Ummm...I thought a bit more on this and came to realize it's more like...*swallows hard*..19 years :jawdrop: :injured: :crying: > I even have a receipt for Slick 50 which eliminated any and all wear created by my internal combustion engine! I'm embarrased of that little purchse but I was young, dumb, and full of GOOP(the hand cleaner). Maybe I'll burn that particular receipt!!

[NUBREED]

I Think About Sometimes,but I Dont Let Myself Dwell On It..i Keep Looking For The Light At The End Of The Tunnel And Visualize What The Finished Product Will Look Like.luckily,im Closer To Finishing,or At Least I Tell Myself That.

[USAZR1]

I quit keeping track after around $20K but probably have less than $25K invested. Still need to spend another $15K or so to be happy with the final results. :smoke:

[JJSmitches]

My budget to UPGRADE my car is $8k plus any money I make from selling off the parts I will not reuse, estimated at maybe $1000. I've got everything mapped out in excel minus the fluids and small items like spark plugs but still have a $1000 cushion for those items.

One advantage I have is that my interior is only 2 years old and I have never been one to worry about how nice my paint is, just as long as its all one color and I can detail it to a semigloss shine.

[skeevay]

I was just going through my old car receipt files a few weeks ago. I have records for about every dime Ive ever spent on the car dating back to my hard earned dish-washing money back in 84. I would hate to see the total of how much I have dumped into this car through numerous changes, upgrades, and rebuilds over the years. I have enjoyed the car this whole time though...and if I never add up all of the receipts, I may be able to convince myself that it was all worth while!

[mikes69z]

Thanks guys, I was getting really depressed about what I just spent to have a nice paint job and bodywork done on my all original '69 Z/28. Soup-to-nuts it totalled about $14K for the stripping, bodywork and paint. I was so pissed at that body shop who quoted the job in the $8-9K range...

With another $6K in parts / engine rebuild, and a bought price of about $12K (15 years ago) for a grand total of $33K.

[vanzuuk1]

What, You mean slick 50 doesn,t do what it claims? Next you will tell me the metal tornado in my air cleaner won't give me 20 hp or the wax I use will not withstand a blast from a laser! If I have to , I'll take an engine with four hundred thousand miles on it , drain the oil and spray it with a garden hose just to show you! And I don't know why you guy's spend so much and paint when maaico will paint your car for four hundred dollars!

sorry, I just really hate TV commercials.