Fitting 17x9.5 inch ZR1 wheels onto 1st gen Camaro

[TitoJones]

Can't be done you say?

Nonsense! I had a set of 17x9.5 ZR1 wheels sitting in the garage and after installing a set of Tall AFX spindles I needed a new wheel to fit the brake system. What I have on the car is as follows:

Stock upper control arm, ATS Caster-X cross shafts with Global West Del-a-lum bushings.
Stock lower control arm with Global West Del-a-lum bushings
ATS adjustable spring buckets
650 pound springs
Bilstein shocks
Global West solid body bushings
Black Widow Tall AFX spindles
SSBC 12" 4 piston brakes
Stock 3/4" sway bar with energy suspension pillow blocks and end links
stock manual steering with all new Moog parts
Baer tracker outer tie rod ends/adjusting sleeves
Short steering arms

I had to space the steering arm off the spindle with a pair of 1/8" thick grade 8 washers, and I also used a set of the Skulte wheel adapters, 1.7" in front, and 2" out back.

With my alignment settings as follows, I was able to get the rims to clear even under full lock.
5.5 degrees of positive caster
.5 degree of negative camber
1/16" toe out

Tire sizes are 245/40/ZR/17 on the front and 275/40/ZR/17 out back.

So there you have it, 17x9.5" wheels on all 4 corners!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Tyler

[CamaroJesse]

How close is the wheel to the upper control arm? thats where i had my trouble.

[TitoJones]

Not close at all. I had a slight rubbing issue on the steeing arm before I spaced it back, but had a I used a stock tie rod, it might have been better.

Tyler

[CamaroJesse]

I dont understand why mine didnt work. I had 9.5 inch ZR1's with a 2 inch adapter and the wheel would hit the uppercontrol arm. I had stock control arms and ats tall spindles. But when i would turn the wheels left and right they would hit the upper.:dunno:

[Chad-1stGen]

I dont understand why mine didnt work. I had 9.5 inch ZR1's with a 2 inch adapter and the wheel would hit the uppercontrol arm. I had stock control arms and ats tall spindles. But when i would turn the wheels left and right they would hit the upper.:dunno:

Possibly different length steering arms?

When using the AFX spindle on an F-body you reuse the factory steering arm correct? Carl's website goes into more detail about the differences but there are different length steering arms for 1st gens and it will effect turn radius and therefore control arm interference.

[70camaro406]

Looks good, and good info too. I've always love the silver ZR-1 wheels. I'm still considering those in my wheel choice.

[67SSDan]

I dont understand why mine didnt work. I had 9.5 inch ZR1's with a 2 inch adapter and the wheel would hit the uppercontrol arm. I had stock control arms and ats tall spindles. But when i would turn the wheels left and right they would hit the upper.:dunno:

Yeah, I don't get it either. Stielow notched the UCA's on the red witch and had to cut up the inner fenderwells to get them to fit (and I was told at some point was running some type of spacer... not sure if that is true or not), and Charlie is apparently running 8.5's on the front of the car now. CarlC runs aftermarket UCAs on his to get it to fit (albeit with a lot less back spacing then these wheels have... which is offset by Tyler's spacers) and doesn't have as big of a sweep lock to lock as stock. I'm running Tyler's ATS spindle with Detroit Speed's UCA and LCA and mine hits pretty quick when you start turning the wheel... that's with no spacer though... I need to get my hands on a set and see what happens.

You don't by chance know what year car they came off of do you? As I recall, the repop wheels (ZR-1s from AFS) I've got have a 6.7" back spacing... any ideas on what yours are?

Dan

P.S. *whew* yikes... just looked and those things (spacers) are 150$... not just something to buy to play around with.

[maroon88iroc]

Yeah, I don't get it either. Stielow notched the UCA's on the red witch and had to cut up the inner fenderwells to get them to fit (and I was told at some point was running some type of spacer... not sure if that is true or not), and Charlie is apparently running 8.5's on the front of the car now. CarlC runs aftermarket UCAs on his to get it to fit (albeit with a lot less back spacing then these wheels have... which is offset by Tyler's spacers) and doesn't have as big of a sweep lock to lock as stock. I'm running Tyler's ATS spindle with Detroit Speed's UCA and LCA and mine hits pretty quick when you start turning the wheel... that's with no spacer though... I need to get my hands on a set and see what happens.

You don't by chance know what year car they came off of do you? As I recall, the repop wheels (ZR-1s from AFS) I've got have a 6.7" back spacing... any ideas on what yours are?

Dan

P.S. *whew* yikes... just looked and those things (spacers) are 150$... not just something to buy to play around with.

i am in the same boat... i cant get mine to work but his fit like a glove..

everywhere i read people say they had to modify the upper control arm and notch the frame.. i think i am just going to go the easy route and buy ttII's i have brand new zr1's in the garage with brand new tires but i cant get them to work right on the front of my all stock 67 camaro..

[67SSDan]

i am in the same boat... i cant get mine to work but his fit like a glove..

everywhere i read people say they had to modify the upper control arm and notch the frame.. i think i am just going to go the easy route and buy ttII's i have brand new zr1's in the garage with brand new tires but i cant get them to work right on the front of my all stock 67 camaro..

Can I borrow your spacers? :naughty: :naughty:

Dan

[WILWAXU]

Hmm.. I've been thinking about a set of Z06 front wheels for my project as an interim wheel (18x9.5).

I have a 17x9.5(early vette & firebird offset) ZR1's on the front of my Formula. Might pull one off and see how far off it is.

[Satatic]

I am working on mine but I guess I don't have zr1s they are camaro ss? Anyway I am still ordering stuff. I have put them on with the 1.7 adaptor on some hub/rotors that came with the car they are set further in than the stock disk hub/rotor that came on the car. Don't know what they are off of. Anyway they do hit the upper control arm and slight tire rub on the frame at full lock. But they are 275 and I think 245 wouldn't rub.

The rotor/hub isnt right so I ordered the drum brake hub and will try that out. Plus I will have to add a slip on rotor so that will add thickness to the 1.7 inches that the adapotor already pushes the wheel out. Maybe to mcuh? I am guessing the rotor would go between the hub and the adaptor. I will find out sometime. I am going to get adjustable upper control arms from savitske and hopefully they wont have the big arc like the stock ones have. I think that is the problem they arc upward and get in the way.

I think the major hurdle will be the steering arms. I have searched everynight for weeks now for the short steering arms and have only found one listing on the heartbeat city website and they are backordered and they have not e-mailed me back about when tehy will be in stock, and probably wont.

[1969CamaroRS]

Just read the article about this car in Camaro Performers. Looking forward to seeing all the build comparisons of all you are going to do to this car!

[WILWAXU]

Here's some mock up pictures of my Nova with 17x9 Camaro SS wheels with 2" spacers all the way around. (Gotta love swap meet deals)

Tires are 245/45/17's.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

2 of the rims came with 275/40 17 BFG drag radials. They fit in the back by a hair. With a rolled lip, they would work.

BTW, suspension is 100% stock, drum brakes (for now ):rolleyes:

[neki67]

What I have on the car is as follows:

Stock upper control arm, ATS Caster-X cross shafts with Global West Del-a-lum bushings.


Tyler, you care to elaborate on the cross shafts? I don't see them in the ATS catalog.

Thanks,
René

[TitoJones]

So I pulled off the wheels for some brake bleeding today and took measurements again.

Here is the driver's front looking down the fender- it does not stick out at all:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/2qkijox-1.jpg

Same side, looking down from the top of the fender:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/16gessl-1.jpg

Here is straight on from the drivers side front:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/28migco-1.jpg

And one more looking down the car at a slight angle. (NOTE: car is on a lift, so the ride height is actually 1/2" higher than normal street trim)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/s2w191-1.jpg

The wheels are 17x9.5 with 7.5" of backspacing. I used a 1.7" front adapter on the wheel with Tall AFX spindles, factory upper and lower control arms, and short manual steering arms. The steering arm had to spaced off the spindle by 1/2", and we also used a Baer bumpsteer outer tie rod.

Here is the backside of the wheel with a tape showing the 7.5" backspacing:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/2renqqq-1.jpg

Just a couple pics of the suspension as it sits at full droop:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/96e0zo-1.jpg

You can see the spacers on the spindle for the steering arm:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/118jfhf-1.jpg


Here is the rim mounted showing the upper A arm clearance:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/2q8zww6-1.jpg

Last pic- The steering arm clearance to the inner rim:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/2yvm6b8-1.jpg

I did swap all inner fender hardware to stainless button head screws and I never have any rubbing under any condition (full lock, compression etc.)

Hope this helped some of you guys.

Tyler

[67SSDan]

Hey thanks for the follow up and the detailed pictures. I'll do some measuring this weekend and see if I've got the same wheel.

Thanks again,
Dan

[67SSDan]

Here is the backside of the wheel with a tape showing the 7.5" backspacing:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/2renqqq-1.jpg

Hope this helped some of you guys.

Tyler

So, let me preface this with saying... I can't measure to save my life. I always measure once and cut twice.. and the thing is still too short... but wouldn't you measure off the bottom of that piece of wood instead of the top? So the backspacing would actually be 7", or just a hair shy? Am I looking at that wrong, or misunderstanding how you measure backspacing?

Thanks,
Dan

[TitoJones]

I think you are right and I was typing too fast. 7" is the correct measurement.

Tyler

[67SSDan]

What happens when you put the back ones on the front? Do the 275s fit too?

Dan

[TitoJones]

They fit but rub in front, and they stick out a little past the fender.

Tyler

[67SSDan]

Hmmmm... so I've actually got less back spacing than you do...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Which means I could get by with less of an adapter. I'll have to figure out a way to mock this up and see what I can come up with. I'd love to run the 9.5s on the front... Interesting stuff.

Dan

[WILWAXU]

I measured my 17x9's last night, they are the same BS ~7"

[WILWAXU]

After allot of tinkering with adapter/spacers I was able to cram the 275/40 17's in the back.

Since these cars were built to such tight tolerances, I ended up with a 1.5" spacer on the drivers side and a 1" spacer on the passenger side. :screwy:

Front is 245/45/17's using 2" spacers.

Here's the pictures:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/drqtr-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/side-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/sundrqtr-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/sunpasqtr-1.jpg

[atomicjoe23]

I know this is an older thread, but I was linked to it because I was asking about spacers to fit the 17 x 9.5 ZR-1/SS wheels on my 1967 Pontiac Firebird. . .there was some discussion about steering arms and them being difficult to find so I thought I would share some info.

David & Mary Pozzi have extensive information on the first-gen F-Bodies on their website Pozziracing.com including part numbers for the different length steering arms. . .the below information is from there website:

"OUTER ARMS
Lengths are from center of spindle between attachment bolt holes, to center of tie rod hole.

Remember, Nova, Ventura, Omega, up through 1974 uses the same subframe as Camaro!

SHORT 5.25" LH-3954875 RH-3954876 Used on power steer, and Z/28 fast ratio manual.

SHORT LH-3902519 RH-3902520 turn stop pad is more pronounced on top, arm appears a bit thinner than later arms. 1968

SHORT LH-3954879 RH-3954880 (listed in parts book as 5.312" long, this may be the actual correct length for all short arms)

SHORT JL8 four wheel disc arms, 1969 Z/28 Heat Treated, Shot Peened, (probably short 5.3") LH 3916237, RH-3916238

MEDIUM ARM 5.5" length RH-3916266 LH -3916265? not sure what ratio. 67 and into 68 manual steer.

MEDIUM ARM 5.5" length RH 3954874 LH3954873 - All except for PS and 302 1969 only.

LONG 6" manual, - LH-3902517 RH-3902518 (67, early long measured at 6") LH-3917193 RH-3917194 slow ratio manual steering."

Here is the direct link to that page. . .you have to scroll down quite a way to get to this information:

http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_steering.htm#Steering_linkage

I appreciate you guys posting this info. . .kind of points me in the right direction for fitting these tires/wheels. . .mine have 7" BS on the fronts and 7.5" BS on the rear. . .difference is probably because the rear tires are wider (275/40ZR17) than the fronts (265/40ZR17).

I have stock power steering and stock manual brakes at the moment. . .I'm upgrading my suspension so I'm going to be changing steering arms/pitman arm for a faster ratio more than likely and I'm putting tall AFX spindles on this week. I will be machining my own hub-centric spacers front and rear this week as well; I keep seeing 1.7" front and 2" rear on the many threads I have read regarding this wheel so I will machine the 2" rear adapters first and test fit them on the front before I machine 1.7" adapters for the front.

[atomicjoe23]

Out of curiosity where did you guys get your 1.7" wheel spacers???

[ryanleiker]

I got my spacers from http://www.motorsport-tech.com/

Has anyone had any issues spacing the steering arm out away from the spindle? (ackerman angle, toe in, etc?)

[Rod]

Has anyone had any issues spacing the steering arm out away from the spindle? (ackerman angle, toe in, etc?)

the answer is YES it will mess with ackerman and create heavy bump steer.... ackerman on these cars is built around the 108 wheelbase for turning radius...a lot of guys move the steering arms to fit wheels or change to a universal rack and pinion setups and the car will no longer turn because the ackerman strikes the turn radius at a different mark....for example a guy i know used a steering arm from an aftermarket company, to fit his wider wheels and they fit great but he LOST all turning radius he kept telling me his car would autocross worth a crap so I drove it and he was right and after we figured it was the ackerman and its new intersecting lines he was turning at 119 inch's instead of the 108 of our camaros...on the bumpsteer part by moving the steering arm in you shorten that link and therefore it reacts and moves in a different arc than the control arms making more bump

[ryanleiker]

the answer is YES it will mess with ackerman and create heavy bump steer.... ackerman on these cars is built around the 108 wheelbase for turning radius...a lot of guys move the steering arms to fit wheels or change to a universal rack and pinion setups and the car will no longer turn because the ackerman strikes the turn radius at a different mark....for example a guy i know used a steering arm from an aftermarket company, to fit his wider wheels and they fit great but he LOST all turning radius he kept telling me his car would autocross worth a crap so I drove it and he was right and after we figured it was the ackerman and its new intersecting lines he was turning at 119 inch's instead of the 108 of our camaros...on the bumpsteer part by moving the steering arm in you shorten that link and therefore it reacts and moves in a different arc than the control arms making more bump

That's what I was afraid of. Can I space it a certain amount, like a 1/4" and still be in a tolerable range? I don't need much.