Need bug help! VW Bug that is!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, it seems $4 fuel has been breading Bug fever around our shop. Beetles are multiplying like rabbits. In the last week both Andrew and Michael have purchased bugs under the premise of saving on fuel. However, the smile on their faces every time they fix something and run around the block tells me their motives are not just economical. I can see it now...........

Dad: Is that dual Delortos your putting on? So I thought you were doing this for gas mileage?

Michael: Whatever dad!

So being wired the way they are, I see these scuff and shoot um toys turning into something more! So we have a need for VW sources. Anyone here know of a good VW forum (s) to join? Anyone know a really good parts source with good tech, ya know, kinda like Prodigy Customs but for VWs, LOL! None of us know much about them, and we would like to straighten the learning curve if we could. There is so much CHEAP stuff available for them, I would like to sort the good from the bad early and try to avoid colecting a lot of unused new parts!

Oh, and please don’t laugh!.............To hard!

[TonyL]

Grrr.. Show them a CORVAIR man!!! we got two cylinders on em and parts cost less!!

anyway. Go to
www.germanlook.com
http://www.airkewld.com/pages/welcome.php

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massive type IV's site is down but they are the authority on big bug motors.

and check www.thesamba.com

[TonyL]

VWs are nothing to laugh at in this day in age. The german look guys have been "pro-touring" their cars for years. Big 930 brakes on the front, 944 turbo rear brakes and whole trailing arms will work on a bug. Bug motors can make insane power. and they handle good too.

[TonyL]

how hardcore is this?
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[MrQuick]

Yeah thats cool, I had the Bug bug back in high school. They are fun. I had my 64 running mid 12's and still getting great mileage. Just move the battery out from under the seat. Funny memory's of me driving it through Junior year with no starter.

I had a book. Not sure where it is now. I think it was "VW's for dummies" and it has everything you will need to know. They are very simple to work with.

[Vegas69]

We need to have a talk.:spank2:

[Steve68]

I/my family has had bugs since I the late 60's, had a real fast 68 in the 80's real easy to work on, make great power, there was a turbo bug on Pinks that they think spun out at close to 130mph at the top end,

Hot VW's magazine, great sourse for parts and trends,

Frank if you need anthing personally PM me,

I've been trying to buy a 67 from a friend, I'd like to do a 2.0 turbo motor,

[68camaro396]

Bill & Steves
12121 Lakewood Blvd, Downey - (562) 923-3251

[Restomod]

Put a Carrera engine in it and hold on......

[crazyfireman]

Go to www.thesamba.com they are a board like this and you can find anything you will ever need there!!

[Benoit23]

This one is sweet but, would look so much better with a different paint job.


how hardcore is this?
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[jknight16]

The parts have to be cheap cause the guys that run these things are constantly breaking them!!

My brother is a Bug fanatic, has a 64 w/ a 2176cc motor, porsche brakes, suspension upgrades, widebody, etc... Only problem is, there's always something breaking on the darn thing.

[TonyL]

This one is sweet but, would look so much better with a different paint job.

Bare in mind that's a full blown race car, hence the crazy paint job. But it's still impressive.

Note: that car is running a Subaru WRX motor in it.

[jason@gmachine]

class 5.

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jason

[Steve68]

Oh Yea, built bajas are bad azz, I helped a friend build a pre runner, what a cool car !!!!

[Paul_J]

www.germanlook.com has some nice builds and the guys at http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/ do some pretty crazy stuff. I hang out at www.volksrods.com a lot.

[Memphis]

Go to www.thesamba.com they are a board like this and you can find anything you will ever need there!!
^The absolute best site for ac v dubs, they've got a bunch of people who know their stuff but just warning ya there are a few d1cks on there that will bite your head off if you ask a common question. To avoid that search like the wind lol. They have a great classifieds setup too. BTW what year bug do you got?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Michael scored a 66 Bug body with a really awesome body on it for $400. It needs some minor rust repair in the left fender, front valance and rear valance, but floors, quarters, etc are all in excellent shape. Andrew scored a running and driving 73 Super Beetle for $600 that has some rust issues (been bondoed up) but it is all one color and runs, and he needs fuel mileage right away as he drives a good distance to school everyday.

These are supposed to be scuff and shoot projects............................

[Young Gun]

Frank! these are gonna be wayy too cool! Im gonna have to agree with the porsche engine swap though!

[matty b]

I had a 220hp 2275 in my 63 about 6 years ago and funny enough is what sealed the deal for me to move to domestics. They can get expensive real quick and they dont take kindly to beating on em without spending even more money. A built trans costs you about $1300 and you may get 25-30 passes and then your ring and pinion is toast. The motors are bad ass though and cylinder head technology has come a long way. Parts sources are cb performance, bugpack and wolfsberg west. First two for engine stuff and 3rd one for Quality body parts (stuff that fits and isnt made in taiwan). If you want a fast engine build a turbocharged 1776 itd make 300hp at about 20 lbs boost and wouldnt cost more than a few thousand dollars. Go to www.cal-look.com the fastest racers and best looking cars belong to that site, but be warned you will find yourself spending thousands to run 12 sec passes. I say get em an ecotec powered 70's compact and call it good. Thats just my opinion I hate VWs now, no love whats so ever

[69Nova]

Frank how did they find cars that cheap? I have been looking for something cheap to play with but cant find anything(I even got kicked off a crappy car lot in town trying to deal on a late 80's nissan truck).

[Cometose]

Check out aircooledtechnology.com for some monster engines.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Andrew, they scoured Craigslist and found the Super Bettle a 1/4 mile away. And to sweeten the deal, the guy has a smokin hot daughter and now they are talkiing. Talk about a great deal!

[shmoov69]

http://www.volksrods.com/

Sorry, but I love hot rods! And these are a cool german'ish version!

[Memphis]

These here are the best volksrods there are imo
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[69Nova]

Andrew, they scoured Craigslist and found the Super Bettle a 1/4 mile away. And to sweeten the deal, the guy has a smokin hot daughter and now they are talkiing. Talk about a great deal!

Gotcha. I have been watching craigslist for a couple of weeks now in my area. Guess I need to start watching other surounding areas a lot more.

[ProdigyCustoms]

On Craigslist there is a 73 Super Bettle in Melbourne for $1000 that sounds like a decent deal. the little I have learned about these, while not a "cool" as the ealry cars, the Super Bettles are a much better car for a driver. Only makes sense

[69Nova]

Did you find that by searching the Orlando are on craigslist?

[Paul_J]

Super beetles used to run a bit less that a Standard beetle but with the "German-Look" they are starting to creep up. The Supers have a strut front end and ride and handle much better that a standard beetle with the torsion bar setup. Companies are starting to produce all of the parts for the super front end. 71-73 use a drag link and have inherent shimmy problems. 74 up have a rack and pinion. With a bit of work the early supers could be fitted with R&P.

This is my daughter's 71/72 super (Flat windshield) with 17X7.5 Momo Sports. It has Topline Maxx Super Struts and Ghia disc brakes.
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[ProdigyCustoms]

Here is the 66 Michael got. The spanish speaking previous owner told us in his best English it WAS a show car! I do not know about "Show car" but it is a decent body, Michael and Ray started striping panels tonight (scuff and shoot right?) and the couple fenders and hood they striped so far look killer. It has some minor rocker rust, but no big deal

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[novanutcase]

My .02!

Put the WRX motor in it! Bug cases were not meant to get pushed that hard thus all the breakage! Same goes for the trannys! I used to have a '68 Bug with an IRS tranny and blued axles! The first motor I ever built was an 1835 with Kadrons! After about 2 months and a shoebox full of tickets I decided it was time to upgrade and built a 2 liter with 44 IDA's! That thing screamed right up to the point that I was racing a 72 camaro on the 5 freeway(I was coming home from work at Disneyland!) and I threw a rod through the top of the case! When I cracked open the case one of the rods had welded themselves to the case! It was pretty ugly!

Any of you OG bugheads remember this?

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John

[matty b]

cal-look baby, if anything from vw I took along with me to other cars was the clean and mean approach. They are total sleepers with more or less stock appearance save for the BRMs or gasburners, no bumpers, rake and big suprise when you drag race them. My car ran a best of 12.50 at 108 on street tires 205 65 15 pirellis and suprised just about everyone that never saw a vw at a drag race. The motors nowdays can be built quite stong so grenading them is getting harder and harder but transmissions on the other hand have not really improved at all. I suggest getting an 091 bus tranny built with a locker or a quaiffe diff and folts axles. This will make it at least twice as long but they do cost a bit more (comparible to a new t56 in cost). I would highly suggest staying with a 1776 and strapping a t3t4 turbo to it and fuel injecting it. This is a cheap motor to build stong, machine work isnt that involved and all you need to do is get a set of cb rods with arp bolts. Also get a set of CB magnum 044 heads. They flow over 225 cfm at .600 lift and its cnc'd. Definitely go on to cal-look.com and read up, they will be able to point you in all the right directions.

[Steve68]

I remember, mine was blue, with nerfs, with a Stinger and a dual QP S&S, probably put out between 125/150 hp

1835 Dual 40 IDF's Engle 110 Cam, BIG time P/P heads and fly cut!!!!, 10 lb flywheel, ran on 110 avaiation and Amoco 93, high compression!!

[Rick Dorion]

On Craigslist there is a 73 Super Bettle in Melbourne for $1000 that sounds like a decent deal. the little I have learned about these, while not a "cool" as the ealry cars, the Super Bettles are a much better car for a driver. Only makes sense
I had a 73 super beetle. As I recall the front suspension was better. Heater sucks! Once I put sway bars, short shifter and a big(ger) Rochester carb it would scoot.

[shmoov69]

Frank, why are they wanting to repaint that!??!!?? That is a show car!! LOL

[Steve68]

For VW fans,

google a B32...... 11 made, late 80's Vanagon with Porsche parts, Super Cool, looking for a Van now, A Suby flat is a popular swap,

[ProdigyCustoms]

Anyone know if a 72 1700cc bus motor will work in mikes 66?

[Memphis]

Thats a pancake motor it won't go in without modifications. 71 and earlier bus motors will bolt in since they are uprights like the bugs. I haven't really looked too much into the swap but with how many uprights there are out there I would just get one of those.

[Steve68]

P cake motor won't fit, go with a 2 ltr bug motor

[Paul_J]

You can put the Type 4 engine in a type one using an "Upright" Fan conversion like one from DTM or use the Porsche fan/Altenator conversion setup. Check out www.Germanlook.com for more details. Personally I would build a nice Stroked Type 1 and save a bunch of money but the Type 4 can make big HP.

Here's a DTM link, All the Type 4 info is there. fixed the link

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/cooling/index2.shtml

[hangten]

I just sold my "stuka" tallboy volksrod to fund my Dodge Dart project. 1776cc with dual webers pushed/ scraped this light weight down the highway with no problems........lots of fun, tons of looks

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[rattus]

I picked up a '73 Super (curved windshield) about a year ago from craigslist for $800. I've re-done the headliner and carpet, moved the battery to the trunk. I picked up a set of 40 IDF's for pretty cheap (again from craigslist) to replace the stock single carb.

It actually handles pretty good and has quite a bit of upgrade potential due to the light weight and strut front suspension. Topline Parts (mentioned in a previous post) caters to Super Beetles and offers some cool suspension upgrades. superbeetlesonly.com is a forum sponsored by Topline and has some pretty good info.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, Michael passed on the 1700CC bus motor and decided to build a motor and go with a 1835 kit. As with everything else he does, a quicky scuff and shoot has snowballed into a complete gut it, strip it, and do everything. I think he is really diggin the idea of $600 set of wheels instead of $1000 a piece wheels, and $450 set of tires instead of one $450 tire!

Also, looks like we will be needing a table saw and wood planner.............

It should be cool as hell.

[Pro-touring towncar]

I loved my 68 Beetle I had. great car. the $200 beetle would start in cold weather when my brand new $16K 90 mini van wouldn't. You can't kill em Mine ran with the crank broke in half Found that half of the main bearing was never installed during a previous rebuild. No marks in the case that it was ever there. it was at least 2 years without it maybe more. With all the technology today for the bugs you can make a killer handing bug for cheap. I just read there is an A-arm front end available.

Tim

[Gonzostyle]

Any updates on this?

[cknight725]

The parts have to be cheap cause the guys that run these things are constantly breaking them!!

My brother is a Bug fanatic, has a 64 w/ a 2176cc motor, porsche brakes, suspension upgrades, widebody, etc... Only problem is, there's always something breaking on the darn thing.

Hey!!!! Well - actually I resemble that -- the aforementioned brother here.

Running a hot-street Beetle can be done reliably, but I was putting something on the order of 12,000mi per year on it, which by most accounts in the VW world is a lot for a large Type-1 Aircooled-based engine. (The estimated life of your average Type1 motor over 2L is typically 50-75K miles on pistons & cylinders)

As I recall - and jknight16 is welcome to chip in here - I broke the clutch collar twice (by all counts at the folks at Kennedy Engineered Products a freak situation probably caused by a defective throw-out Bearing), throttle and clutch cables countless times (really the weak link in the cars IMHO), smoked an MSD Blaster coil (Note: its important to mount the coil so that the oil inside covers both of the electrical connections), and generally have been dissatisfied with just about every linkage I have used with dual Webers because it seems they are constantly requiring adjustment. (I haven't used the CSP Center-Pull linkage, mainly because everything CSP makes is astonishingly expensive as compared to other vendors/manufacturers)

I must admit the other thing that was playing out years ago with this car is the simple fact that I was young, stupid, and in a hurry much of the time. I'm re-doing the car as we speak as a street autocrosser, which I guess would fit the Pro-Touring definition (damn thats a long thread), and the one thing I find myself saying a lot is "What the hell was I thinking?" The car has been basically apart or in storage for 4 years and in that time I have really gained an appreciation for slowing down and doing everything with care, rather than letting that evil 3-word phrase enter my vocabulary --- "Thats good enough".

Anyway, I'd be happy to lend any help or advise (I've been doin this big-motor fast VW stuff for quite a while and I have a lot of experience) I can so please PM me and I'll be happy to answer questions, or give you other ways to contact me that are more conversation friendly. Also, I saw 454Bug's thread about his car (which is really cool btw), so I'll probably put a thread together to show you don't necessarily have to toss all the VW stuff to make a good Pro-Touring Beetle.

[jknight16]

Hahah, good to have ya here bro.

That was many years ago, so I don't remember much of what all seemed to break all the time. A couple things I remember were CV boots constantly leaking, did you ever find a reliable fix for that? And oil lines, seems like you went through a number of those before you found hose material that wouldn't puncture or explode. So you may have some good advice for that...

[cknight725]

Hahah, good to have ya here bro.

That was many years ago, so I don't remember much of what all seemed to break all the time. A couple things I remember were CV boots constantly leaking, did you ever find a reliable fix for that? And oil lines, seems like you went through a number of those before you found hose material that wouldn't puncture or explode. So you may have some good advice for that...

Well 65 and Earlier like mine are Swing Axle cars and use a different boot style than the later model cars. CV Boots would have been a piece of cake. Swing boots are rubber and have a seam going up the middle that essentially gets bolted together. My first fix was to go to Urethane boots -- I had 2 sets of rubber ones crack in exactly the same place. Another alternative are the rubber seamless ones -- I bought a set to try to install during my most recent round of work, but those proved to be a complete NIGHTMARE to install -- you basically have to press the axle ends off, install the boot, and press it back on. My fix was stick with the urethane boots and use a crapload of Black Hi Temp RTV and pull the tranny completely out of the car so I could get full access when I installed the boots. I can now say that the seam is sealed tight and there are no leaks from them.

Leaky rear bearing seals can be a problem too -- I had to replace the rear seals 3 times before I found a set that sealed right -- others have had the same problem with Mexican sourced replacement bearing seals -- for those interested, stick with German if possible -- Brazillian over Mexican.

Having gone over all that, Both of the beetles Prodigy is asking about are IRS rear cars and will have more conventional Inner/Outer CV's and boots -- those don't leak and obviously IRS is a better overall suspension setup, but the IRS tranny's don't take much over 150HP either. Swingaxles can take over 600HP properly built and with Sway-A-Way Axles.

Oil lines are always a problem when U don't tighten the hose clamps -- see previous post about young, stupid and in a hurry. I also burned through them once with the Exhaust tubing -- yeah more of the same. For context though, the typical VW engine won't have oil lines -- the stock oiling system doesn't even have a spin-on filter -- nothing but a screen mesh is all that stands between the engine and certain doom. The first thing that is done with a performance Type 1 is to add full-flow oiling -- basically the oil leaves the crankcase, runs through a spin-on filter, and is routed back into the crankcase. In my case, I also added a 72 plate oil cooler and fan. I've got about 10ft of oil line that connects all these to the engine.

Some do a spin-on oil filter & pump like this --
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This is an okay solution for a non-stroker motor (1641, 1776, 1835, 1915) but they are inherently very restrictive and use a pretty small spin-on filter. One of the added benefits of full-flow oiling is the added oil capacity of the filter and lines - on an air-cooled motor more oil=more better.

This is the far better solution -- oil lines leave the engine and go to a large spin-on filter (PH8A in my case, it holds 1qt)
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Also -- Prodigy -- I read above that one of your guys is looking at an 1835 kit -- any particular reason why he isn't going with the 1915? The cylinder walls on the 92mm pistons are regrettably thin. 92's and 90.5 use the same hole size on the motor - so that means that 1.5mm has to come out of the cylinder wall. Most guys skip right over them and go with 94mm's (1915 kit). Thin cylinder walls contribute to blowby and reduced compression. Gene Berg is the official VW Performance God and he's got some great articles on the evil 92mm thin wall pistons. Most of his articles were written before the current generation of 94mm pistons were available and he lean's heavily toward the 90.5mm piston because at the time of the writings they were the only pistons that had a wall thickness comparable to stock. If you're guy is gonna have to machine the crankcase for larger pistons anyway, why not go for the largest available? (Cost changes should be on the order of $20-30)

[ProdigyCustoms]

Any updates on this?

Well, Progress is slow as EmptyNest ate up all our extra time for the last 6 weeks or so. As predicted as of today the Lil "SCUFF AND SHOOT" Bug does not have a sngle bolt in the body, has been bare metal striped, sandblased, and epoxy primed. Remember in the begining it was smear a little bondo in the holes and paint it, no we are buying sheetmetal and patching! hunting for a better drivers door, Got a repro fender for the driver side, new rockers on both sides, So much for bondo it and paint it!

I guess it is my fault because Michael has only learned one way to do it.

Current plans are for a Tangelo Orange exterior with a custom Woody kit using blond and red oak made by legendary woody man "Frank Serafine" ! Actually, I have never done a woody, had a few, (not cars) but never did a woody car! I always wanted to do a woody something, but never dreamed it would be a bug!

We are going to insert the area between the fenders and also do slats in the running boards, and probably do a wood inserted surf board rack, UGH! Just what we needed, another project! I must admit I am looking forward to the wood working though


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[Young Gun]

i think you need to get Michael to chop the roof 4 inches and stretch the body about 8 inches...c6 corvette stuff and a full frame chassis...and a nice and simple ls1 and a 6 speed combo... Stretch the trunk to accommodate the engine combo, and a sick paint job with a nice set of forgelines to set it off... but thats what I would do if I could do real metal work and was a forgeline dealer... (actually thats just one of my obscure dream builds)

[ProdigyCustoms]

Oh Please Stop it! Don't give him any ideas!

I am happy at this point it is going back together almost stockish!

[RudeJester.s10]

^^x2 fgln groupie...puffer.

[MrQuick]

c'mon at least a 40 ford style backlight.

[cknight725]

Oh Please Stop it! Don't give him any ideas!

I am happy at this point it is going back together almost stockish!

Stock is for weenies :wrc: ...

[TonyHuntimer]

Frank,

C'mon! Stop with the bug stuff! You're making me want my '55 oval back. :)

I've actually been thinking of bugging again to have a kick around car. And all this bug stuff isn't doing me any good.

Have fun,
Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[Pro-touring towncar]

Hey Tony FYI there is a 55 oval barn car on ebay right now. Needs alot but hey it's an oval. could lead to a new book Das touring farfignugan

I may just start looking for one to build. Couldn't beat the $200 I payed for mine. need to find one again.


Tim

[Memphis]

^and that Oval is a ragtop too, hopefully somebody saves it.

[oestek]

Looks very cool, Frank... I dig the paint idea. They are fun little cars, and they can take a beating.