Stock brakes VS baers or wilwoods

[saunacrank]

Ive never seen any tests that show performance numbers, like how fast the car will stop from 60 with baers or wilwoods over stock brakes, anyone seen a test with either?

[chicane67]

Which brake system are you refering to as stock ?? Which chassis... etc etc.

There are a few published tests with emperical data on the OE and any improvements made by the addition of PBR or Wilwood equiped vehicles. I do not and would not rely on a magazine for any test results... as repeating tests for like to like conditions are hard to duplicate.

[saunacrank]

I have stock front Discs and rear drums, Its a 67 Camaro RS with just new OE stuff.

[chicane67]

Well... when I still had the OE 4 pot fronts and drum rears on my '67... I got it down to 118 to 122 on average in testing. In comparison to the same system in stock as is form... is 160 ft, as per Road and Track back in the day.

The spring rate, shock valving, stainless steel lines... along with Porterfield "R4-S" pads and shoes... and reversing the rear shoes in the drums to change the bias... was all that was done.

The PBR (Baer 13" front, 12" rear track system) it went down to 108 to 112 'ish. This was with stock Baer semi-metallics (Performance Friction.)

The APRacing set-up currently on the car should do sub 95 ft... and personally I think it has more in it from the initial calculations, but I am shooting for a sub 90.

As for something comparable, other than my rambling... is from Doug Rippie Motorsports. He posts a few different systems here : http://www.dougrippie.com/drm/braking_products.htm

Ill see if I can find some of my old data from the testing we did when I worked for Guldstrand. We did a lot of stuff with Porterfield and did losts of testing with what would be the standard Baer 13" track system.

[recklessnova]

i had a great working factory style setup on my 74 nova i was running the cpp master cylinder with the adjustable prop built in and switched to a 12.1 in 4 piston up front and the diff was amazing like night and day and that was only with the front. using crude testing methods it took 20 feet from my 60 -0 stoping.

[ks71z28]

My camaro with B-body set up front, and caddy rear, stopped from 60 mph in 130' with hawk hp plus pads. My stock disc dum 68 Firebird was 150' all day. Actual grip from the tires and pavement were the biggest problem. Under 100' is amazing. That isn't the true test. my camaro stops relatively well under normal conditions, but performs for 20-30 minutes on the track withour melt down, pads are the biggest upgrade you can make, assuming the system is mechanically functioning.

Keith

[CarlC]

...and the only way to get exceptional results is to have an exceptional tire. The only thing that stops the car is the contact patch between the tire and the road surface.

[blown9746]

118 to 122 with pretty much a stock system. No offense, but that's pretty hard to believe.

[guccieng]

118 to 122 with pretty much a stock system. No offense, but that's pretty hard to believe.

what's more impressive is that it answers the question: no, the expensive aftermarket replacements do not do better; just expected to. besides, those numbers are based on a lightweight race car, after rigorous track abuse, right?

[ks71z28]

118 to 122 with pretty much a stock system. No offense, but that's pretty hard to believe.

I second that!

[Fesler built]

I dont have the numbers but we have been doing testing with Baer for years with lots of our projects for magaine articles and so on. Let me tell you first hand after riding in the car with Todd from Baer during a test they are way better than the stock set up on every car we have tested thus far. We have had the opportunity to do sevearl test with Baer as they are right here in our back yard. We did the project 05 Mustang with Baer and we got the car to stop better then a C5 vette and that is a big deal. The testing was from 100-0 and let me tell you that is a fun ride.

I have used Wilwood as well and IMO the Baer brake set up is by far one of the best on the market. We have used them for years and have had very little problems with them.

If any of you need any products from Baer just email me and I can get you a price as I am a dealer for them out here.

[Conekiller13]

The biggest effect on single stop brake distances is the tires. However a big brake kit gives the advantage of repeatable panic stops or track use or "spirited" driving use. Big brake kits also give you a better feel for improved brake modulation allowing easier threshold braking. 60-0 zero stop times/distances are not the be all end all of judging brake performance.

I'll also second the notion of Baer having the best packages out there. Their engineering and product testing especially for this market is second to none.

[chicane67]

118 to 122 with pretty much a stock system. No offense, but that's pretty hard to believe.

No offense taken... but, the only things that are stock are the front calipers, rear drums and hardware.

Spring rate, anti-dive, proper bias, understanding of the friction material being used, correct 'threshold' braking... and the tire, as Carl mentioned... are all part of equation. Unfortunately, it didnt have the repeated fade resistance in the rear system to support very many stops at that distance. Hell... just a pad change on the OE D3's would net a 120-125' number with relative ease... on the right tire.



Then again... my 67 is pretty much the acception to a few rules. Its no where near being stock suspended... and its has been a developement test bed for years... so its not quite fair that I use it in most examples. Lots of seat time and lots of brake system and suspension tweaking.

[HILROD]

A well set up set of stock brakes, should be able to stop a car fairly well. There was a magazine test a few years ago, where an aftermarket set of big brakes was worse than upgraded stock. Once they got the bias set up, it was barely better. The main reason I'd say, for an upgrade, is that even most midsize or small cars run bigger brakes today than most of our cars had new. Brake fade and saftey are also a couple of reasons. I've seen a lot of guys willing to spend any amount on making there cars faster, and maybe handle better, and not be willing to do anything with stock brakes.

[toofun]

Well just basing on my experience........I had another 69 camaro convertible with a small block in it, with 235's up front 275 in the rear on 18 inch rims. Front suspension was 1 1/8 sway bar, tubular uppers and lowers, lowered springs, bilstein shocks and stock rear suspension except for bilstein rear shocks.

I had a completely new assembled 11 inch front stock disc brake setup and a complete upgraded 11 inch DRUM setup from ?(I forget) in the rear. Bought a Hydroboost unit and MAN!! THat car stopped on a dime with 8 cents change!!! Dont know if that helps you out any but I think it all comes down to a combination of parts... That combo really worked well for me and saved me a boat load of cash in the brake department. HYDROBOOST is definately worth the money though. Just my two cents..

Mark
TOOFUN

[Scatpack]

So basically the big advantage of a big brake kit is the ability to hammer on the binders repeatedly without fade? Can you make an 11" single piston GM set-up with 11" rear drums stop well (130 feet or less)?

What kinds of things would you have to adjust to get those kinds of numbers?