Introducing - Project 1/2-TRAK

[Damn True]

Greetings everyone,

I joined Pro-Touring.com in 2005. Since then I have had the good fortune of meeting a bunch of wonderful folks and have learned quite a lot from a number of people. In that time much has changed in my life. I got married, changed jobs (twice), moved twice, built a house and we are currently in the process of selling another. Finally, life has begun to settle into a situation in which I can move my project from the planning stages to an active project.

I joined PT.com with a rather general plan in mind based on an experience gained nearly 30 years ago. Sometime around 1976-77 my father took me to a race at Laguna Seca. I distinctly recall box-fender flared BMW 3-series cars, Datsun 510's & 240-Z's, FIA bodied Corvettes and those wild Chevy Monza's. But what struck me the most was not these high-dollar pro racers but the cars in some of the support races being run by local SCCA members. Particularly if I recall correctly the A-sedan group.

This group was populated by hobby road-racers driving cars that were slightly older. Much like what you'd see at an SCCA or NASA event today. But instead of Miata's, Bimmers and CMC cars, these were late 1960's Musclecars. Mustangs, a few Mopars and Camaros. I was totally blown away. At the tender age of 10 or so I'd seen enough copies of Hot-Rod that I was aware that these cars were frequently used for drag racing. But the fact that they could be road-raced was entirely new to me. The cars were as amazing to me at the time as they are now. Pared down to their base elements, nothing there except what absolutely HAD to be there. Low, loud and mean looking with FOUR instead of two fat tires! Many of them had the "bubble" type fender flares that you can see on David Pozzi's old T/A car

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/69garft-1.jpg

Heck, David's car may have even been out on the track that day, who knows? I knew then that someday I wanted to have a car like one of those. And, I knew just where to start.

In July of 1969 my Grandparents purchased a 1968 Camaro that had been sitting a while on the lot at Courtesy Chevrolet in Santa Clara, CA. They needed a new car to drive to Arizona where I was to be born in a couple of months and since the car had been slow to sell the price was right. The car was a bit different in that it was a special order that wound up not being delivered to the customer it was originally intended for. Playboy had placed an order through COPO for an number of pink 1968 Camaros to be distributed to playmates through the year. They only took delivery of about a few of them. The rest wound up being sent to dealers. This was one of them....and yes, I said it was pink. This was my Grandmothers car for close to 35 years. They drove it all over CA on vacations and fishing trips. In fact, to this day there are bait shops and mountain lodges that I go to and when I mention my Grandparents people say, "Oh the couple with the pink Camaro!" The car was nothing special other than by virtue of it's color. A basic 327 coupe with a powerglide. But it was cool and I knew that eventually this car would be the basis for my Camaro road-racer project.

Fast forward to the year 2000. I was getting out of the Coast Guard after eleven years and moving back home to the Bay Area. My grandparents at that point decided to give me the car. A couple of years earlier some redneck had yelled something vulgar to my Grandfather while he was driving it and it scared him so he had a cheapo Earl Schieb spray-job done on it so it was now blue rather than pink.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/17778128098-1.jpg?1207632013

The gifting of the Camaro roughly coincided with the "rise" of Pro-Touring. Jeff Smith and Mark Stielow had finally put a name to what had been in my head for years. A classic Musclecar with an updated suspension and drivetrain. Finally, I didn't feel like such a geek for wanting a corner-carving Camaro! And, with websites like this one popping up, magazine coverage for PT builds becoming more common and increased aftermarket support for this type of car it was going to be a whole lot easier than I had originally imagined!!!!

So essentially I have spent the last few years in "planning mode" speaking with various vendors about different suspension configurations. Considering a number of different powertrain options. Asking countless questions of people like David Pozzi, Steve Chryssos, Mark Magers, Steve Rupp, Carl Cassanova, Frank Serafine, Tom Holt, Tyler @ ATS and many others. Weighing my intentions for the car and how that impacts parts selections, build style and how much to spend and where? Further, there has been the debate of the style of build. Street car vs. race car vs. Streetfighter. All of which has brought me to this. A finalized plan for and an opportunity to build the car I have dreamt of for nearly 3/4 of my life.


Introducing:


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/17778128099-1.jpg?1207632016

The car will have a decidedly "Streetfighter" vibe to it and that is by design. I intend to drive the heck out of this thing. It will see auto-x action in and around the Bay Area whenever I get the chance and it will be taken to the many fine tracks (Sears Pt. Thunderhill, Buttonwillow and Laguna Seca) around the area as well. The money will be spent on performance first and appearance second as I care far more about how the car negotiates a corner than about what some judge at a Goodguys event thinks.

Project 1/2 TRAK will feature the following:

Drivetrain:

LS based EFI engine, target HP - 450
TK0-600 transmission (unless a T-56 drops in my lap for a good price)
9" Strange diff with 3.90 gearsChassis:

Fully welded factory subframe modifed for coilovers
DSE body mounts
DSE subframe connectors
DSE mini-tubs
TC Design-Fab 10pt SCCA legal cageRear Suspension:

Lateral Dynamics 3-link
Afco Coilover shocks (~250lb springs)Front Suspension:

ATS Spindles
ATS Coilover conversion

Speed-Tech upper/lower A-arms

1-1/8 swaybar
Afco Coilover shocks (~650lb springs)Steering:

Recirc Ball ATS steering gear
Lee PS pump
Moog steering system components
Ididit Column
Steering wheel quick release
Sparco wheelWheels & Tires:

Team III, LT-III wheels (minilite replica)
17x9.5 front 17x11 rear
275-40-17 front 315-35-17 rear
BFG KD or similarInterior:

Cobra Imola FIA legal fiberglass racing seats
No rear seat
Factory carpet
Welded/sealed/carpeted rear bulkhead/package tray
Combination of spray-on sound damping material and strategically placed mat material for minimal weight contribution
Custom center gauge panel with Stewart Warner guages
No ACBody:

Weld & fill badge holes and side marker light holes
Fiberglass decklid
Fiberglass "stock-flat" hood
Fiberglass front inner fenders
"Vanzuuk" front air-dam
Twist Machine rear decklid spoiler
Flanks - Subaru WRC Blue
Hood, roof & decklid - flat black
Low gloss (~50%) powder coat on all metalic trim, door handles etc

Many of the items on the list above are still open to change based on new product releases, pricing changes etc therefore, any vendor wishing to discuss partnership in this project is welcome to contact me via Private Message here at PT.com

Pretty damned excited. I can't wait to get started on this thing.

First order of business will be to rip the front end off of it so I can finish the welds on the front sub and install the body mounts. Then subframe connectors, then tubs, then the 3-link rear. All of which I have the parts for on hand.

By the time that is done I hope to have purchased enough of the front suspension bits so I can put the car back on the ground so I can roll it onto a tow truck and take it to TC Design-Fab for the cage install.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/17778128117-1.jpg?1207633343

I should be able to get crackin in about a month or so. Once the garage is organized a bit better. I will do my best to update this build thread every two weeks or so and look forward to sharing this build with the membership here at www.pro-touring.com

[TonyL]

Looking very nice True!

[WS6]

That's a great plan True. I'm glad to hear you are finally working on yours. I like the cutouts in the rear lower valance panel. That's a nice subtle touch. You should be able to pick up a T56 cheaper than what that TKO 600 will cost. The T56 will handle your power goals for a long time to come as well.

Keep us posted as you can. I hope to be able to post up pictures of mine in a few years as well.

[Bow Tie 67]

Now this is the way to start a project, very well thought out. The rendering has nice clean lines, the stock hood looks great, and I love the wheels.

[Steve1968LS2]

Very nice.. for obvious reasons I really like your build plan. You should have FUN.

Will there be heat and/or AC? Wipers?

Can't wait to see progress on this project!

[David Sloan]

Very Cool
I will be watching this one! Love the colors

[Damn True]

Very nice.. for obvious reasons I really like your build plan. You should have FUN.

Will there be heat and/or AC? Wipers?

Can't wait to see progress on this project!

There wil be heat, there will not be AC. I recently found out Vintage Air makes a little heat only unit.

I may put a wiper on the drivers side only.

[Part Time]

The story and history of the car are awesome. Although it may look to 80's, I think as a tribute it would be cool if you put a VERY thin pink strip or highlight somewhere. Still very cool with or without.

I will be watching this one for sure.

[ZuperZport]

Very cool project True! Looking forward to project updates. Your build-up parts are all top-notch which should result in a real mean machine!

The whole Playboy connection is really cool too. Just a thought here........ Maybe restore a super small, one inch by one inch section on the firewall or somewhere discreet in the original pink color and have a small Playboy emblem air brushed over it? A small effort to preserve its unique history? Just a thought. Would be a great way to get a Playboy Bunny to pose next to your car!:woot:

Keep us posted True!

[69Nova]

Sick! I love the paintjob and the wheels.

How about painting the underside of the trunk pink with a tiny Playboy decal somewhere. That'd be a conversation piece at a autox.

[Tony_SS]

Good looking project. Well thought out - looks like everything's covered.

[NOPANTS-68]

great wheel choice, but then I'm biased. lol

[7TSS]

Sweet project. I really like the story behind it too.

[Chevrolaine]

You're a lucky man! Great story and I love the idea. DO keep us updated!!:yum:

[TonyHuntimer]

Great project! It's been a long time coming.

Surprised you're not painting it pink. :smoke:

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[MrQuick]

Holy crap True that thing is sweet. Let me know if you need some help. Love to get my name on that baby when you start hitting the car show circuit. You got a winner for sure.

Front suspension picked out yet?

I didn't want to mention it but you spelled Track wrong....just an over sight im sure....

[Damn True]

Spelled that way on purpose.

Get the joke?

There will be some points that I will need some help and advice with.

[TonyL]

Haff trak?

[TonyL]

Im curious where you are going to get that front and rear spoiler from.

I know Twist is selling the rears, or are you building your own?

[Damn True]

I bought the rear from Twist when he had that limited run.

The front I will be building from a template that Dirk gave me.

[6'9"Witha69]

Looks good!! No wait, GREAT! Glad to see you are ready to dig in and get your hands dirty.

Now is a great time to start a build. Lots of great stuff is on the market now which really transforms these cars.

[vanzuuk1]

Someday I want a ride in that damn car. Motogp at laguna seca,say 2011?

[Young Gun]

All I can say is that this is going to be absolutely awsome. I love the story behind the car, and the plan is just awsome! When I first joined PT.com I saw a couple shops that had just been able to blow through a project and build it in 8-9 months with all the quality one would want...I have more recently come to realize, to get a build to really be what you want, you need to take the time to fully plan it out... I love that about this project, you have taken the time and have really got this thing planned out. This is gonna be a build I subscribe to, I know its gonna be great! Make sure you keep up on the photos, this thing is gonna be build book material! Godd luck True, your gonna have a great car when this thing is done!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

thats awesome!!

ida kept it pink tho..

[Nessumsar]

It's awesome to finally be able to put your dream into reality. Everyone should experience that in life. Cant wait to see the updates!

[MrQuick]

...don't forget the pictures too.

[Vinz68]

Looks like its going to be a great project! I like the story too.

[Damn True]

Well I didn't think it was going to take so long to get crackin on this thing but life happens. It took us longer than we'd thought to get the old house ready to sell. Thankfully it was on the market for a total of 48hrs and is due to close in the next week or so.

With that....I decided to get started on dissasembly.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778183393-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183393)

It came apart pretty easilly. No broken bolts. The only rust at all was a tiny bit of surface rust between panel edges. Like between the fender extension and fender. Came right off with a wire brush. No corrosion penetration at all. Started labeling stuff as it came off. Put small parts in those clear plastic totes. Tried to put bolts in their home hole whenever possible. Even better than bagging.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778183391-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183391)

I haven't worked on an old car in quite a few years. Got a big kick out of how much hardware there is and how big the hardware is. They sure don't make 'em like this anymore. Not to mention how thick the material is compared to new cars. Those fenders are 16ga!!! Wow.

Did you think I was kidding about it being pink? Its pretty darn clean. That discoloration is dirt, not rust. Wipes right off.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778183396-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183396)



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778183397-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183397)

This week I'll strip all the suspension and steering off the sub and take it to get sandblasted.

Once I'm done with that I can finish weld the seams. Then I'll be able to do my suspension fabrication. I have one or two decisions to make in that regard this week. Still not sure what system I'll be using.

Then I can prime/paint and install the sub. After that will be subframe connectors.

Gotta love the hub-caps!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778128120-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=128120)

Views of my workspace not previously visible

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778183394-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183394)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/17778183390-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183390)

[Code Red]

honestly it actually would be tempting to restore it back to the pink and put some playboy badging on it and do the protouring route


I tried searching for some playboy camaro stuff but only found mustangs and AMXs

I do like your rendering


good luck with the project

[Bow Tie 67]

Alright, the fun begins. True do you have any time-frame for the build? Will you tackle it in stages or lay her up until finished?

Matt

[Damn True]

Well since I am starting with a non-running car I'm sorta forced into doing a lot of it in the first pass. That pass includes, in the following order:

All Fab work - Anything that requires cutting, welding and physical alteration of the body/chassis

Suspension/steering

Engine/drivetrain

At this point I could put it on the road, get the bugs worked out and enjoy it a bit. Prior to paint. We'll see how it goes at that point.

Body/paint.

[Code Red]

here you go I kinda did this quick

Thought about doing the reverse shot and putting a pink bunny between the tails and adding a 69 to it

hope you dont mind

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/bunnycamaro-1.jpg

[WS6]

You know, it wouldn't look bad in pink. The Mopars could be had in pink. With the unique history of the car being pink in the beginning, it could be justifiable. Blue looks damn good to though, True. Glad to see you're starting the work on it.

[Code Red]

You know, it wouldn't look bad in pink. The Mopars could be had in pink. With the unique history of the car being pink in the beginning, it could be justifiable. Blue looks damn good to though, True. Glad to see you're starting the work on it.


might be even able to get a few playmates to pose on the car

[Damn True]

Thanks for that. I got a kick out of it. I do plan to integrate some pink into the car somewhere.

[Code Red]

Thanks for that. I got a kick out of it. I do plan to integrate some pink into the car somewhere.

no problem ;-)

[dipren443]

Looking like you have a great canvas with which to start. :cool:

So what kind of build time are you thinking?

[Damn True]

That's not entirely up to me if'n ya know what I mean?

I'd really like to have it moving under it's own power on my 40th birthday. Sep-2009, but I have no expectation of completion by that date.

[sik68]

Great to see you dove into your project!! That thing is going to be schweet!! We're definitely goin to represent the Bay Area streetfighter scene. You have great taste in wheels...mine just came in this week. The VWW V48's. Im anxious to see how good the TEAM III's look

Keepin tabs on this one!

[dipren443]

That's not entirely up to me if'n ya know what I mean?

I'd really like to have it moving under it's own power on my 40th birthday. Sep-2009, but I have no expectation of completion by that date.

Completely understood. These things end up taking on a life of their own. Even my little projects end up taking much longer than I ever plan...

Still planning on running the Team III's I see. Glad to hear. Next time I am in the Bay Area, would love to check out the project. :twothumbs

[Code Red]

Completely understood. These things end up taking on a life of their own. Even my little projects end up taking much longer than I ever plan...

Still planning on running the Team III's I see. Glad to hear. Next time I am in the Bay Area, would love to check out the project. :twothumbs


very true I was working on a custom grill project for my colorado and it was taking me a while and now its on definate hold.

but yeah take your time and dont rush things, if it takes a little longer just to make sure its right then do it the right way.

[trapin]

True, I had those same hub-caps on my car.

Congrats on getting it started. You'll get a whole lot of advice in here on the "Do's" of restoring your car but when you're ready for the "Don'ts" come and see me. I got a whole mess of them I've accrued over the years. LOL!!!

[Jim Nilsen]

here you go I kinda did this quick

Thought about doing the reverse shot and putting a pink bunny between the tails and adding a 69 to it

hope you dont mind

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/08/bunnycamaro-1.jpg

You could put a plate on the pink one that says 'Good & Plenty"

[dropit69]

i love the 2 tone pink..go for it ..would really stand out..and playmates...mmmm

[Damn True]

Great to see you dove into your project!! That thing is going to be schweet!! We're definitely goin to represent the Bay Area streetfighter scene. You have great taste in wheels...mine just came in this week. The VWW V48's. Im anxious to see how good the TEAM III's look

Keepin tabs on this one!

Thanks, I check in on yours all the time.

The Team II wheels spokes transition into the hub a little more smoothly and the spokes themselves have more of a curve to them. IMO a bit closer to representing the Minilite than the V48's and I can get 'em in any width/offset. The guy that makes them is in Hayward too. I prefer doing business locally where possible.

[Damn True]

Completely understood. These things end up taking on a life of their own. Even my little projects end up taking much longer than I ever plan...

Still planning on running the Team III's I see. Glad to hear. Next time I am in the Bay Area, would love to check out the project. :twothumbs

Absolutely. Let me know when you are around and we'll have you over for a couple of hop sodas.

[Damn True]

Had the day off of work so the front suspension bits were removed from the front sub. Everything came off smoothly. Still (knocking on wood) no broken or stripped fasteners. Though I do have a brake line union (hard line to flex line at left front wheel) that is putting up a fight.

It got too hot in the garage so I shut it down for the afternoon.

I'll probably take some measurements and pull the subframe tonight after it cools off.

[DJW32]

True,
Are you using the stock subframe? If so, how are you going to run 275mm worth of tire in the front?


David

[twosaturns]

i love the 2 tone pink..go for it ..would really stand out..and playmates...mmmm
unless its playmates from the same vintage... (to be 'correct', they'd of POSED in '68, not BORN in '68) not all of them turned into milfs you know...

I too vote for pink, great backstory.

[Damn True]

True,
Are you using the stock subframe? If so, how are you going to run 275mm worth of tire in the front?


David

Yes, I will be using the stock subframe.

You see, I firmly believe in letting other people do my R&D for me. The simple reason for this is that I really cannot afford to experiment. So for the most part, I am using what I know to work.

Thankfully, one of our own, Carl Cassanova has already sussed out the details of running a 275 on the front of a '68.

You can find all the required information on his excellent website:
http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

The only differences in my setup will be the use of an ATS spindle and wheels/brakes. I will be duplicating his wheel dimensions and also will be using the Speed Tech upper and lower control arm. More about those later though. I don't want to get ahead of my next update.

[Damn True]

So....not a lot happened in September. It was a busy month at work because I was only AT work for about 2 weeks out of the four. My wife and I spent a week in Hawaii, and another week fishing and camping in the Sierra's. She treated me pretty good for my birthday. All things considered I'd have preferred Camaro stuff to going to Hawaii. Having lived there for seven years it feels more like going home than going on a vacation. But it was nice to get out of the office. The fishing trip though was awesome. The planks are 2"x12" for reference.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197360-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197360)

So as I said a few posts back, I got the sheet metal stripped from the car pretty easily. No broken or stripped hardware and no rust to speak of. As you can see though, the subframe is really grungy.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197358-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197358)

Not bad considering the age of the car. Really stoked about the lack of rust. This really was a "grandma car" and as such it was never really driven hard so I'm not even finding evidence of severe wear or any kind of stress cracks.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197357-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197357)

So I stripped all the suspension off and yanked the subframe in preparation for sandblasting and then finish welding.

Here's what we started with

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197343-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197343)

A little quick work with a wire wheel allowed me to inspect the potential trouble spots for cracks before sandblasting and allows me to explain what I'm up to here. You see how the subframe is only partially welded? Well each unwelded bit is a flex point and the beginning of each weld is a stress riser.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197344-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197344)

So what we are going to do is link all of the factory welds and tie the whole thing together.

I thought this was going to be easy, but nooooo. It seems that a 40 year old lap joint is nigh impossible to clean. I sandblasted it. I wire brushed it. I sprayed solvent in there and blew it around with a blow-gun. I heated the joint with a torch to burn off contaminants but my welds were just looking like rubbish. This thread catalogs me figuring out the problem with the help of Jake and Matt...

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46863

So with the problem solved the welds came out pretty well. You can see the factory lap weld above my weld in this picture. It looks like they were stick welding these things and doing so very quickly.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197348-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197348)

Now remember, these are flux-core welds on a dirty, 40 year old lap joint. My torch technique is as you can see "rusty" to say the least. But, the welds are super solid and fully penetrated.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197347-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197347)

[Damn True]

In addition I also finish welded the seams inside the LCA pocket and the entire K-member. Overkill? Maybe. But it couldn't hurt.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197369-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197369)

You can see the string of itty-bitty spot welds that were originally used to join the upper and lower halves of the K-member here. Running the bead along both sides really made the assembly into a very solid unit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778197368-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197368)

I had to roll the subframe over a few times while doing all this work the difference in the stiffness of the assembly was very noticeable. Early in the process I could feel the thing wobble around a bit if I grabbed it by one corner and shook. I mean it felt like grabbing one corner of a sheet of 3/4 plywood. Strong, yet with some springiness to it. With everything welded up it is completely rigid. More like a sheet of 1-1/8 subfloor.

Yeah, my welds still kinda suck and the flux-core wire is messy, but they got better through the process and functionally the welds are good.

Next step.......

Installing the ATS coilover conversion system.......

[Flash68]

Yes, I will be using the stock subframe.

You see, I firmly believe in letting other people do my R&D for me. The simple reason for this is that I really cannot afford to experiment. So for the most part, I am using what I know to work.

Thankfully, one of our own, Carl Cassanova has already sussed out the details of running a 275 on the front of a '68.

You can find all the required information on his excellent website:
http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

The only differences in my setup will be the use of an ATS spindle and wheels/brakes. I will be duplicating his wheel dimensions and also will be using the Speed Tech upper and lower control arm. More about those later though. I don't want to get ahead of my next update.

Yup, I'm running the 275 on stock sub too. Carl's site is great.

[Chad-1stGen]

In addition I also finish welded the seams inside the LCA pocket and the entire K-member. Overkill? Maybe. But it couldn't hurt.

</snip....>

I had to roll the subframe over a few times while doing all this work the difference in the stiffness of the assembly was very noticeable. Early in the process I could feel the thing wobble around a bit if I grabbed it by one corner and shook. I mean it felt like grabbing one corner of a sheet of 3/4 plywood. Strong, yet with some springiness to it. With everything welded up it is completely rigid. More like a sheet of 1-1/8 subfloor.

Yeah, my welds still kinda suck and the flux-core wire is messy, but they got better through the process and functionally the welds are good.

Next step.......

Installing the ATS coilover conversion system.......

Interesting observations about the subframe rigidity. I've heard of fully welding the stock sub before but never much about what it did in practical terms. Your observations aren't scientific or anything but still makes you go hmmmm. Sounds like a great improvement.

And since this is my first time browsing your build thread, I agree you need some obvious homage to the cars heritage. Maybe a pink bunny on either side where "Camaro" normally is or something.

[WS6]

looking good True. Glad you got the welding figured out. Don't forget you can always grind your welds down and smooth them out to make them look great. My plan for now on my TA is to use the stock front subframe and fully weld it also.

[Damn True]

Interesting observations about the subframe rigidity. I've heard of fully welding the stock sub before but never much about what it did in practical terms. Your observations aren't scientific or anything but still makes you go hmmmm. Sounds like a great improvement.

And since this is my first time browsing your build thread, I agree you need some obvious homage to the cars heritage. Maybe a pink bunny on either side where "Camaro" normally is or something.

You are absolutely right. There is nothing scientific about my observation. But it really is brutally apparent that there is a huge huge difference in the torsional rigidity of the assembly.

I'm giving some thought on how to do something with some pink on the car. Haven't figured out anything that works yet.

[Damn True]

looking good True. Glad you got the welding figured out. Don't forget you can always grind your welds down and smooth them out to make them look great. My plan for now on my TA is to use the stock front subframe and fully weld it also.

Yeah, that was a frustrating episode. But it sure is rewarding to have it figured out and making some progress.


I'm psyched about the chance to apply the best stuff on the market to a stock sub.

[TonyL]

Find a spot no one will see again, like under the fender on the firewall. Get a vinyl playboy sticker and apply it to the pink. When you spray your black or blue over the area, you can peel the sticker back off to reveal the car's historic pink color. Then when you install the fender, Only you will know it's there.

[67SSDan]

Ah cool man, I just caught this thread. Congrats on getting kicked off. Should be a cool car.

Dan

[Bow Tie 67]

Find a spot no one will see again, like under the fender on the firewall. Get a vinyl playboy sticker and apply it to the pink. When you spray your black or blue over the area, you can peel the sticker back off to reveal the car's historic pink color. Then when you install the fender, Only you will know it's there.

I like this idea, and the welds look good. But I will say you guys with cars that never had to deal with the midwest winter salt trucks, Suck!! LOL I had to weld in plate steel on my 67's sub and redrill the holes for all four subframe mounts.

Matt

[trapin]

Good progress on the project True, but what's really caught my eye is the string of Rainbow's. Did you get those fly-fishing or casting Mepps spinners? Michigan is known for it's Brook Trout and when I was younger we used to cast spinners in the smaller tributaries for them. Used to come home with strings like that. A quick field dressing and into the smoker they went.

Ahh....fond memories.

[DJW32]

Yes, I will be using the stock subframe.

You see, I firmly believe in letting other people do my R&D for me. The simple reason for this is that I really cannot afford to experiment. So for the most part, I am using what I know to work.

Thankfully, one of our own, Carl Cassanova has already sussed out the details of running a 275 on the front of a '68.

You can find all the required information on his excellent website:
http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

The only differences in my setup will be the use of an ATS spindle and wheels/brakes. I will be duplicating his wheel dimensions and also will be using the Speed Tech upper and lower control arm. More about those later though. I don't want to get ahead of my next update.

I agree.

I wonder if this would work with the air ride stuff?

Keep the updates coming.

David

[Damn True]

Good progress on the project True, but what's really caught my eye is the string of Rainbow's. Did you get those fly-fishing or casting Mepps spinners? Michigan is known for it's Brook Trout and when I was younger we used to cast spinners in the smaller tributaries for them. Used to come home with strings like that. A quick field dressing and into the smoker they went.

Ahh....fond memories.

There are a couple of German Brown's in there as well.

1/8" split shot, #8 hook and a night-crawler combined with fishing the same stream in the sierra's since I was 5yrs old with my grandfather.

Fly fishing is an avocation practiced by people who enjoy the act of fishing more than catching and eating fish.

More often than not I mix up some flour, salt and pepper and dust the fish inside and out with that and drop them in a cast iron pan with about 2 tbsp of oil in it. Once in a while I'll bake them with some lemon, thyme, chives and a tiny bit of garlic.

[Damn True]

I agree.

I wonder if this would work with the air ride stuff?

Keep the updates coming.

David

Not sure as I am not going the air route. But I'll be speaking with Speed-Tech later this week and can fwd your question.

[Bow Tie 67]

There are a couple of German Brown's in there as well.

1/8" split shot, #8 hook and a night-crawler combined with fishing the same stream in the sierra's since I was 5yrs old with my grandfather.

Fly fishing is an avocation practiced by people who enjoy the act of fishing more than catching and eating fish.

More often than not I mix up some flour, salt and pepper and dust the fish inside and out with that and drop them in a cast iron pan with about 2 tbsp of oil in it. Once in a while I'll bake them with some lemon, thyme, chives and a tiny bit of garlic.

Thanks alot, now I'm hungry. :spam3:

[DJW32]

How is your turning radius going to be effected?

[Flash68]

How is your turning radius going to be effected?

I hope to be able to report back soon on this as well as I am running the Air Ride upper and lower control arms on my stock sub with 275s. I am hoping the turning radius is not compromised too much!

[Damn True]

How is your turning radius going to be effected?

http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

As stated on Carl's website it is somewhat reduced in order to prevent rubbing on the subframe, but not appreciably so.

[Damn True]

I hope to be able to report back soon on this as well as I am running the Air Ride upper and lower control arms on my stock sub with 275s. I am hoping the turning radius is not compromised too much!

I'd verify that with ART. One of the best features of the Speed-Tech arms (great geometry not withstanding) is the adjustable steering stop. This will allow me to slightly limit the steering angle enough to prevent rubbing.

[killer69]

Just wanted to let you know that there is no reason the air ride skw's won't work as long as the spring pockets are clearanced and there is no contact with the bag, they would probably work well with ATS's Chicane coil over conversion too. as it would allow a taller SKW and may allow you to run the bag upside down requiring less clearancing,,?????
but they will work with the lower arms. frank @ prodigy has air ride on our subframe with the camaro lower control arms.

[Damn True]

Thanks for jumping in Blake!

The stuff arrived in good order. Updates coming very soon.

In the mean-time..............

Yes Tyler, I did pull the subframe from the tub.

Pulled, sand-blasted etc etc.....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778202330-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=202330)

[Steve68]

Looks good D/T, post a little more on the MoMo Wheel,

[TitoJones]

Your manhood will remain intact for now.

So while you were busy ripping your pink car apart we were busy modifying your lower control arms to a double shear mount for our coil over kit.

We took your tubular control arms and setup our lower mount:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/29q1uzb-1.jpg

Then we ground down the powder coating off the top and bottom so that we could TIG the mounts in place:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/nc05me-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/fdy77l-1.jpg

The frame gets modified by cutting off the single shear shock mount from the upper control arm bracket, plasma cutting the spring pocket out to allow for the coil over to pass through, and then welding the new upper coil over mount itno place inside the control arm bracket. Final results look like this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/258qx37-1.jpg

Back to the lower control arms, we TIG weld the spacer into one side of the double shear mount; the other side gets a zinc plated floater.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2rf378o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2hzpjme-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/28kk7fd-1.jpg

The lower mount is ready to be welded to the lower control arm pocket:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/sl1ikw-1.jpg

The arms are fully welded; TIG around the brackets, and MIG in the center to plug weld them in place. Now they go off to get re-finished.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/30t1ac7-1.jpg

Next we will assemble your AFX spindles using the LG Motorsports brake cooling ducts. I'll post those up when the parts arrive.

Tyler

[Damn True]

Hey Tyler, thanks for posting that stuff. If you'd sent me the photos I don't think anyone would have believed it was me making those welds.

Important feature of the Speed-Tech arms that I really want to point out [white arrow]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/17778202482-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=202482)

That bolt is the key to getting the 275x17" tire on a 9.5" rim on the front of a 1st Gen with a stock subframe. It's a steering limit adjuster and it allows you to slightly limit the steering angle such that the tire will not rub the subframe. The loss of steering angle is negligible.

Speed-Tech is the only aftermarket UCA/LCA manufacturer to offer this feature.

Strap gussets on the bushing housings are a nice addition as well. Stronger with a minimal increase in weight.

Of course, the Acetron (delerin) bushings will offer little/no deflection, exceptionally long wear, no squeaking and have a convienently mounted zerk fitting as well.

Tyler informs me that the modification shown above was significantly easier on the Speed-Tech arms than on other available products.

[nicks67camaro]

Looking great True! I'm glad I saw an in depth look at the ATS coil over kit.

[Damn True]

Thanks, stay tuned. There'll be more stuff in a few days.

The perception is that it's one thing for Tyler and his guys to install one in their shop and something else entirely for a home builder to do it.

I am doing the remainder of the install myself, with the intention of illustrating how easy it is for someone to do this install even with basic home fabrication equipment.

I only had Tyler install the LCA double shear mounts because I don't have my shocks yet and thus cannot correctly set the spacing.

I don't have a videography department (just kidding Frank) but I'll try to give you guys as much stuff as I can.

[jknight16]

Those LG spindle-mount brake ducts are some pretty trick pieces, I have a feeling you will be the one to start a trend here of using those with the AFX spindles.

[killer69]

AAAAAA HHHH what about the beautiful powdercoating???

looks like it is go time.
keep the updates comming
looks good

[Damn True]

Gotta break some eggs..........

They'll look great again before they go on the car.

[trapin]

Interesting part. Where do they draw the cool air from. Does that hose get routed to the front end or does it just need to capture air from under the car?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Damn True]

I'll be routing it to intakes mounted in the openings in the front valance.

Similar to this

[TonyL]

Sick. I really like that idea.

[TitoJones]

So we have new goodies at the shop. The guys at LG Motorsports drop shipped a set of their C5/C6 Corvette spindle brake ducts. We will be adding them in place of the wheel speed sensor bracket on our forged aluminum AFX spindles. The only issue we had was that during our engineering process of making the AFX spindle we needed to rotate the forged in brake bracket so we could tie it into a fillet gusset while adding about 50% more material to it to eliminate brake flex. This makes the cut of the duct interfere with the upper brake bracket hole due to our redesign. No big deal, the bolts go in from the back side anyways.

Here are the spindles as we test assembled them with the 1/2"x20x3" long ARP stud upgrade. Hope to have this stuff out to you in the morning True!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2mnq3x3-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2h6ca5c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2ltrcc0-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2ef0y1s-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/357j76p-1.jpg

Tyler

[Damn True]

Note to self:

Order axles that are compatible with BIG A$$ WHEEL STUDS!

[TonyL]

what's the sensor inside the hub for?

[mongoose]

abs?


the afx spindles come with abs ****e.... so maybe those are it?

[Damn True]

what's the sensor inside the hub for?

Flux capacitors. Ssssh :ssst: don't tell anyone.

[TonyL]

when you get back to 1985, tell me to break up with the girl I'd be dating. You'll save me tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars!

I might even still have a full head of hair!

[David Sloan]

when you get back to 1985, tell me to break up with the girl I'd be dating. You'll save me tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars!

I might even still have a full head of hair!

Thats funny shiiiiit!! make sure an find me an do the same.
Thanks!!

[Damn True]

As stated, the next step is to install the ATS double shear coilover bracket. I've gotten the sense from some that this is percieved as a difficult task. I mean, it's one thing for Tyler to install these in his shop with a bunch of quality tools and equipment but perhaps another for someone to do at home. Tyler bills this thing as an easy to install upgrade. Well.....let's see.

Here is the bracket:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3370-1.jpg

A darned robust little item if I do say so. 1/4" steel plate (how do you bend this stuff?) nicely mig welded into an assembly that I'm pretty sure could support the weight of the car a couple times over.

I have at my disposal a small Kobalt air compressor and cutoff tool. A cheap Sears Craftsman grinder (with cutoff, grinder, wire and flap-disk wheels), a sawzall, a Miller 175 welder and a little something I borrowed from work that we'll get to later. By no means professional quality stuff. IMO your basic homebrew fab tools.

Since this the install is done twice (left side and right) I've decided to examine two different ways of accomplishing the task.

Here is what we start with:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3393-1.jpg

The sandblasted subframe and it's OE single shear shock mount and upper control mount.

The first step is to remove the single shear shock mount. At first I tried using the pnematic cutoff tool......lesson learned here. Cheap air compressors and pneumatic tools are just that....cheap. The $200 compressor from Lowes (Kobalt brand) just does not have the ooomph to handle this. It couldn't keep up with the cuttoff tool. So I switched to ol' reliable. Sears.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3439-1.jpg

The Craftsman grinder with a 4.5" cuttoff wheel made quick work of the shock mount.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3446-1.jpg

But it does leave a lot of material behind. The lap-welded portion on the subframe arm partially surrounding the spring pocket and the portion still attached to the UCA mount need to be cleaned up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3451-1.jpg

No worries...I am using both hands on the grinder (with eye and ear protection). My wife leaned over my shoulder with the camera to take the photo.

Still grinding away the mess

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3364-1.jpg

[Damn True]

Getting rid of the last of the junk attached to the UCA mount

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3455-1.jpg

.....and finally all cleaned up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3453-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3458-1.jpg

The next step is to remove a portion of the spring pocket. This will open up the top of the subrame and allow enough room for the coilover to pass through to the bracket after we attach it.

You'll need to open this up to roughly 4 inches in diameter. I went a little wider for an extra margin of clearance for the shock/spring. You can see the red line guiding my cut below.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3380-1.jpg

Again I tried the pneumatic cuttoff tool. Again I was dissapointed. So I tried an alternate method. I used the sawzall to take small pie cuts out of the material. Sorta nibbleing away at it until the hole was "mostly round" then finished it with a grinder. No pictures of the middle of the process here.......it was ugly. But once cleaned up with the grinder it looks fine.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3394-1.jpg

I also took the time at this point to add a little extra weld to the UCA brakets. Nearly impossible to get that joint in there clean and it's tough to get the torch close enough for good puddle control and see what you are doing. The welds reflect that but they are fully penetrated.....just ugly.

On the other side I decided to try something different to see if the process could be sped up a bit and improve the quality. It involved a slightly more sophisticated tool than the sawzall.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG34921-1.jpg

Boy do I like this thing!

Where it took me nearly an hour to cut away the other spring pocket with the sawzall bit by bit, the plasma cutter did the job in about 45 seconds leaving a muuuuuch nicer hole...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG34971-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG34951-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG34981-1.jpg

....and with far less cleanup with the grinder required as well. All told a much better result with the plasma.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG34991-1.jpg

The next step is to begin trial fitting the coil over bracket to the UCA mount. Now remember, we are dealing with a 40 year old car. Tolerances on these things when built were shall we say........loose. The bracket will have to be trimmed here and there to fit.

Here is the bracket as delivered. You can see that the gaps around the bracket are big.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3387-1.jpg

You'll have to nip away at the c/o bracket and perhaps the UCA bracket some to get your joints tight enough to weld and to locate your shock in the hole such that the spring perch or spring wont make contact with the subframe. There is no sense in me decribing where you'll have to trim he bracket as it will be different on your car. It was differnet on mine from left side to right.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3390-1.jpg

.

[Damn True]

....and after considerable trimming

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3532-1.jpg

Yes I know the shock is upside down. The adjustable perch is slightly larger than the fixed one and I assumed closer to the OD of the spring.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3534-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3536-1.jpg

Again, YMMV on the trimming required. This is just what had to happen to get it to fit up nicely on MY particular subframe. It isnt hard. Just time consuming. You grind a little, then test. Rinse and repeat until you get a nice fit then tack the sucker in place.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3535-1.jpg

Then weld it up...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3539-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3537-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3541-1.jpg

Still pretty messy with spatter and the goo from the flux-core wire but it got late and I needed dinner. Now it's even later and I need to go to bed, so more tomorow if I get home from work early enough to work on it.

Thanks for watching.......

[nicks67camaro]

Excellent detail I always wondered what it took to get this conversion done. I am toying with this or the Varishock conversion. Thanks for sharing.

[Chad-1stGen]

very cool walkthrough

[Young Gun]

very cool, out of curiosity did you TIG or MIG weld those brackets on? looks great!!

[Damn True]

Are you making fun of my welds?

The brackets are assembled by Tyler via TIG. I installed them using a MIG.

[WS6]

Good job True. What's the next step from here?

[Damn True]

I'll be cleaning up the spatter where possible then painting the subframe before putting it back on the car.

Then a Firewall blockoff panel followed by DSE subframe connectors.....then the biggie....the Lateral Dynamics 3-link.

[hotrdblder]

I'll be cleaning up the spatter where possible then painting the subframe before putting it back on the car.

Then a Firewall blockoff panel followed by DSE subframe connectors.....then the biggie....the Lateral Dynamics 3-link.
true you make it sound so easy and quick,lol. great work...
oh ya, get some c-25 gas and reg wire for doing the sheetmetal work on the lat d

[Damn True]

Yeah I have real wire and gas for that stuff. I'm only using the flux-core because of the filth in the old joints on the subframe. Looking forward to a spatter / flux goo free existence from here on out.


It is easy. Just a little time consuming. I probably have 6-8hrs into this task. It'd have been far less if I had started with the plasma cutter. Again, the point was to show that this is totally within the realm of the homebuilder with basic fab tools. IMO it is, but it'll take about 30% longer if you don't have access to a plasma cutter. I suppose the uptick in time would be less if someone had better pneumatic tools than I have.

[796spdbu]

Good job detailing your install. I like your appproach to the different ways of going about it. We have the same plasma cutter at work,it makes a huge difference over the air tools and we have a huge compressor at work.

[Damn True]

Thanks. The plasma was waaaay easier. But, it can totally be done w/o it. It just takes a little more time & patience.

[Damn True]

I'm about 1/3 done painting the subframe and it's lookin purty!

I should have pics in a day or two.

[David Sloan]

Cool nice detail!
Keep up the good work.:yeah:

[Damn True]

I'll have some photos later but just wanted to post this while I was thinking about it.

I've been using Eastwood products to paint the front subframe. The "rust encapsulator" and the "Chassis Black" in gloss. These are IMO the best freakin rattle-can products I have ever used. The nozzles have a fan pattern to them, and they really apply the material uniformilly.

I'm really pleased with the result thus far.

[Otto-813]

Looking good!

[BonzoHansen]

On the side topic of the playboy pink cars, I just tripped on this one, of all places a site dedicated to the old Batman tv show. I present a pink AMC and the lovely Angela Dorian (google that name, I can;t post that here, lol).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

http://www.1966batfan.com/gueststar19.htm


..I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...

Oh yeah, nice car. :smoke:

[Damn True]

Very cool. I wonder if there is a similar photo of the '68 playmate of the year with the requisite Camaro?

[Damn True]

Ok, brief update.

Topic: Fitting new suspension bits on 40 year old subframes.



As previously mentioned, the tolerances on 40 year old cars are......not good. You saw above how fitting of the ATS coil over brackets required widely disparate adjustments to the brackets to get them to fit in the UCA mount stands. The brackets were identical, the mount stands.....not so much. I guess that explains the goofy mix of alignment shims that were in the car when I disassembled it.

So the new challenge is fitting the Speed-Tech lower control arms. I attempted to test-fit them prior to painting the subframe. To say that they required "persuasion" would be a gross understatement. I thought for a second that I had gotten arms for the wrong year Camaro. I measured everything, twice and it wasn't the arms. It was the LCA mount pockets. They varied in width by as much as 3/16" and the angles relative to each other were off as well.

I spoke to Blake at Speed-Tech about this and his reply was that this was fairly common. Though more common in LA vs Norwood cars.

His suggestion:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3553-1.jpg

A 4" length of 1/2" all-thread
Two 1/2" nuts
Two fat washers

This nifty little device is used to "adjust" the width of the LCA mount pockets so that the LCA bushings will slip into place. Like so:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3551-1.jpg

The end result is that the LCA now slips easily into place w/o the need to force, sweat, curse, cajole or grab a BFH to get it in place.

The subframe and core support are now painted. I have a few more photos to take and I'll post an update on that and a more complete review of the Eastwood products in a couple of days.....maybe tonight....depends on what my wife has planned for me after work.

[Damn True]

Well, I couldn't get to an update last night. Had to go buy a new mattress last night. Those things have gotten EXPENSIVE!

Anyway....

Topic: Subframe and Core Support Paint, review of Eastwood products and installation of DSE subframe mounts.

So here is what we began with on the subframe. 40 years of gunk, thankfully no rust though.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3258-1.jpg

A bit of time spent with the wire brush prior to sandblasting allowed me to inspect for cracks to make sure the subframe was still useful.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3260-1.jpg

I did find a couple of cracks in the welds surrounding the Upper Control arm mount stands so if you are going this route check there first. Pretty simple though to grind out the old weld and into the substrate a bit to find fresh steel and re-weld it. YMMV of course.

After sandblasting and all the welding I've outlined previously the material on the subframe looked like this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3363-1.jpg

and the core support (also sandblasted) looked like this...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3589-1.jpg

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have painted the core support as soon as I got it back from the sandblaster. It would have saved me some time. It sat for a few weeks and developed a bit of surface rust. Nothing bad at all, but it cost me some wire-wheel time that I would have preferred to spend in other ways. Oh well, it's an opportunity to further evaluate the Eastwood stuff right? I'll keep telling myself that.

[Damn True]

So....on to the Eastwood stuff. I ordered the following material from Eastwood:

- "Pre" surface cleaner/degreaser
- Eastwood "Rust Converter"
- Eastwood "Rust Encapsulator"
- Eastwood "Chassis Black" (gloss)
- Eastwood "Underhood Black" (satin)
- One of those "Can-gun" gizmos

Really easy to order from them. I used their online ordering this time and it was pretty painless. I have ordered by phone from them as well and it went well too. You get a confirmation email with tracking number so you know when the stuff will arrive.

After calling them for more info about the rust treatment products I felt that I didn't have any rust that I felt worthy of using the Rust Converter on. So for these two bits I used the Rust Encapsulator, Chassis Black and Underhood Black only. I have some deeper surface rust in a couple of places that I'll try the Converter on later. Nothing serious though....I may blow it off and just flap-disk it down to fresh steel. We'll see.

Anyway, I am really pleased with the stuff. As I mentioned previously this stuff is better than any rattle-can material I have ever used. The "Rust Encapsulator" was used as a primer and I followed that with the Chassis Black on the subframe and the Underhood Black on the Core Support.

The Encapsulator and Chassis Black cans both have spray nozzles that project the material in a nice, tight 5" fan pattern at the 8"-10" spray distance called out in the instructions. There is really minimal overspray and it's very easy to control where the material goes, especially with the use of the "can-gun". Additionally, it was easy to ensure that enough material was deployed for coverage w/o getting so much as to experience runs.

Overall I am really happy with the result. Yes, a pro with a paint gun could get better results. Nit-pickers will see the occasional bit of dust in the paint. Yup, my garage isn't 100% clean. But this is the subframe and core support on a track/auto-x car. It's more than good enough for me.

So let's have a look at the results:

After two coats of the "Rust Encapsulator" the subframe looked like this...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3557-1.jpg

It lays on shiny when wet but dries to a flat black finish. If you top-coat within 36 hours you can spray right over it. Longer than that and Eastwood recommends a light scuff with 300 grit or a red scotch-brite pad. I wound up having to do both due to time constraints and in each case the top coat turned out pretty darn nice.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3564-1.jpg

The flash and the florescent lights in my garage conspire to play hell with the color rendering in a few of these photos so some, like this next one look a bit grey. The surface is a uniform, gloss black though.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3567-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3568-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3588-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3585-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3563-1.jpg

One other thing about the Eastwood stuff.....since the overspray is minimal the dusting of "other stuff" in the garage is nil and the airborne material is minimal as well. There is a bit of "solvent smell", but with the garage door open while spraying it was not oppressive at all and after 1hr was difficult to detect. Good stuff. Especially if your wife has concerns about such things or you have kids or animals around.

[Damn True]

....and onto the Core Support.

Again, I coated the Core Support first with the Rust Encapsulator and then the Underhood Black.

The Underhood Black lays out in a nice satin finish. It does not appear to have a porosity though so I'm thinking it will be pretty resistant to the "greasy fingerprint" that some flat/satin finishes are susceptible to. I did accidentally grab the core support with some oil on my hands. I was able to wipe the oil off with a bit of alcohol on a rag. No mark remained.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3638-1.jpg

And in the following photos you can see the difference between the satin Underhood Black and the gloss Chassis Black.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3632-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3629-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3628-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3624-1.jpg

[Damn True]

....and finally, the installation of the DSE (Detroit Speed & Engineering) solid body bushings.

From DSE:


Detroit Speed and Engineering's solid body mounts provide a simple approach to eliminating the flex that occurs between the body and subframe connection. This will improve vehicle handling response by increasing chassis stiffness. These mounts should be used when installing subframe connectors for maximum torsional rigidity.

Detroit Speed and Engineering's uniquely designed body mounts are CNC machined from billet aluminum. The mounts are then hardcoated, not bright anodized. The hardcoating process resists corrosion that can occur between steel and aluminum surfaces with regular bright anodizing. CNC machined stainless steel bevel washers are included. 17-4 stainless steel flanged body bolts are also available as an option.

Our mounts are available in either 1/2 height or stock height.

The body mount kit includes:

- 2 core support mounts with stainless steel bevel
washers

- 4 body mounts with stainless steel bevel washers



Optional stainless body bolt kit includes:

- 2 polished 17-4 stainless steel bolts and nuts for
core support mounts

- 4 polished 17-4 stainless steel bolts for body
mounts

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I opted for the standard height units. A lot of folks go for the 1/2-height but from what I've seen the 1/2-height mounts often cause interferance problems between the transmission and tunnel and between engine and hood if you aren't using a cowl induction hood....which I am not. So full height bushings it is. I don't want the car too low anyway. Real life includes driveways, speed bumps, rough roads and trailer ramps. I'll leave the "slammed" look to the fairgrounds guys.

The install of these things is really dead simple and a one-man job as well provided your back/shoulders will allow you to bench press the subframe. The interlocking bushings install above through the subframe mount pads sandwiching the subframe material and providing a rigid interface between the subframe and the body tub. A bit of anti-seize on the stainless bolts is a good idea.

I installed the bushings and bolts hand tight and pulled the jack out of the way.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3633-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3634-1.jpg

The next step is to align the subframe to the body tub so that the chassis is square. Also a simple task.

Start by dropping a plum-bob from the aft most mount hole for the lower control arm and make a mark on the garage floor. You can see the red marks here on bits of tape placed on the floor. Repeat this on both the left and right side of the subframe.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3635-1.jpg

At the rear of the car, just aft and outboard of the forward leaf spring eye is a flanged oval shaped hole. Drop a plum-bob from this point and again, mark the spot on the floor.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3636-1.jpg

[roadbike, mountain bike and downhill bike gathering dust in the background....they hate me]

Once you have your marks you then measure diagonally between the marks (left-rear to right-front & right-rear to left-front). The values are sure to be different at first which is why I left the body bushing bolts hand-tight above. You'll have to bump, tweak and nudge the subframe around until the measurements are close to or equal. It'll take a few times to get it right but be patient and make small adjustments. Mine came out exactly equal at 90 1/16" from corner to corner.

I compared this to the measurements I took when I disassembled the car. The factory left the differential at 90 3/16" and 89 15/16". A 1/4" out of square condition. I guess that too explains the disparate alignment shim stacks.

I left the bushing at the Core Support hand tight to allow me to nudge it around when I put the bodywork back on the car at a later date.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3632-1.jpg


Next step will be the installation of the DSE subframe connectors. I'm starting on that tonight so we should have at least a preliminary update to this thread in a few days.

[Damn True]

If you've never cut a big freakin hole in a somewhat valuable car you should try it. It's a rather liberating experience.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3647-1.jpg

[WS6]

haha awesome! Good work True

[69Nova]

Lookin good True! I defiantly appreciate all the info your putting in your thread. I'm pulling my car apart kinda soon and this is the kinda info I need.

[Damn True]

Thanks Andrew.

I stickied a really great tutorial on mini-tubs in the suspension forum. This guy did a great job explaining the process.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900

I won't go into detail on that bit in my thread. No need to duplicate the info but where there are holes in the tech on this site I'll try to fill them where applicable.

[jackfrost]

If you've never cut a big freakin hole in a somewhat valuable car you should try it. It's a rather liberating experience.



quote of the day. :1st: nice pic, too.

[lh_kustoms]

If you've never cut a big freakin hole in a somewhat valuable car you should try it. It's a rather liberating experience.

done it before and you could have put it better :cheers:

[Kenova]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/CIMG3647-1.jpg
There's some more of that pinkpaint ... :poke: LOL.
You're doing an excellent job on both the buildup and documentation True.
It's probably to late now, and probably not that important, but the sub frame in my '71 Nova had a slight twist in it. If I remember right it was about 3/8" to a 1/4" . I always assumed that was the reason for more alignment shims in one side than the other. Your measurements before disassembly pose another possible cause.
Keep up the good work.
And take it easy on that new mattress :naughty: .

Ken

[Damn True]

I was going to weld in my subframe connectors last night but realized that I was out of gas. The wife was happy to hear it.





.....some jackass left the valve on the bottle open.

[Ron S]

Looking good True,I think I leave the bottle on at least once a year,I got a note painted on the back of the entrance door to my garage,which says did you turn the heat off,Are the bottles off?,and i still leave them on.Ron

[trapin]

Great tech, True. It amazes me how many cool products have come out since I went through this process. The Eastwood stuff, Tyler's coilover system. I'm interested to see how your subframe connector install goes since I'm thinking of going with the DS&E ones.

[zman1969]

I was going to weld in my subframe connectors last night but realized that I was out of gas. The wife was happy to hear it.



.....some jackass left the valve on the bottle open.- GIGGLE
D/True I have read alot of your posts and after reading the intro to your car - I have to admit I was touched-really how cool that your grandparents car- is now yours - I wish we all had a legacy as that! I had never heard about the pink cars - so in a way thats one of fifty - rarer than a Yenko! I hate to say this but it needs to be pink! real men can drive a pink car with all that history and what it represents. - not dissing your rendering - that looks cool! :smoke: if not, then it needs like someone suggested a pink pinstripe and being you're in Ca. you need to get it autographed by Hugh before he runs out of viagra and passes. - Just like Caroll Shelby autographing all his cars - its a real piece of history there, just with out Yenkos 427s to tear it up. take care and I'll be watching your progress- Cheers

[Kenova]

I was going to weld in my subframe connectors last night but realized that I was out of gas.

That's almost as bad as forgetting to turn the gas on and then spending an hour or two trying to figure out why you can't weld worth a crap.

Ken

[Damn True]

Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate all the input.

There will be no work done on the car for the next few days. I'm otherwise occupied.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50351

[Mean 69]

you need to get it autographed by Hugh before he runs out of viagra and passes

THAT!!!!! Is a FANTASTIC IDEA!!!!! I'll ride shotgun if he invites you over to the pad to do the honors!!!

M

[Damn True]

Been quite a while since I've made an update to this thing. I cut the openings for the subframe connectors just before Thanksgiving and that's when things ground to a screeching halt. Thanksgiving, a ton of work before a Christmas shutdown, then two weeks of gift shopping, food shopping, cooking, cleaning, wrapping, visits hither and yon, house guests, a trip to Phoenix for New Years and then a ton of work to make up for no work over the last two weeks....cripes!

Well, I did eventually get a little time to finish the subframe connectors. Read on.......

As I mentioned previously, it's a liberating experience to cut your first big hole in an old car!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227516-1.jpg?1232123916

Cutting the holes was pretty straightforward. I used a cutoff wheel on a 4.5" angle grinder. It made pretty short work of it. I think a cutoff on a pneumatic would be easier, but since the compressor I bought is not up to the task it had to do.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227517-1.jpg?1232123921
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227520-1.jpg?1232123938
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227521-1.jpg?1232123943

The only real concern here is to be very careful to cut the hole undersized and sneak up on the fitment of the connector. I used a grinder to whittle away at the material until the connector just fit. My welding is pretty bad so I wanted the gaps as tight as possible. Not too bad.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227518-1.jpg?1232123926

Then it was just a simple matter of welding it in (yeah, right!). Welding the seam on the inside of the car was pretty simple. Though 18ga to 3/16 steel requires a bit of fiddling with voltages and wire speeds. It wasn't awful though.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227524-1.jpg?1232123959
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227522-1.jpg?1232123949

Where it got tough was underneath. The outboard bit wasn't too bad but the inboard side was a horror show. It's still technically a "T-joint" but the floor pan has those rolled beads in it and one of them directly abuts the subframe connector. So instead of a straight 90degree angle the joint looks like a lower case "h" and you are trying to do your welding up inside the bottom of that lower opening. Really tough work. I burned through the floorpan in a few places and had to patch it but eventually got it all done.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227525-1.jpg?1232123964

The fwd spring hanger blocks a bit of the joint between the connector and the rear frame rail so I'll have to zip a bit more of that together later.

The next step is the installation of the Detroit Speed mini-tubs. These will allow as much as a 335 section tire, but I won't be going quite that wide. I'm only going to be able to fit a 275 up front and don't want a super wide disparity so I'll probably stick to a 315 or so out back. But I'll have room for more.

The first step of this process was to remove the rear suspension assembly. It came out absurdly easily. Seriously, I didn't even need to break out any penetrating oil or even so much as a breaker bar. Everything came apart with a 3/8" drive ratchet and minimal effort. God bless my grandparents for keeping this thing garaged for 35 years. It's spent more nights outside since Ive owned it (2000 on) than it has in it's entire live. The bolts looked literally brand new when I took them out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The 4x4 patch of tape on the fender has marks on it identifying the axle centerline. This will be important for locating bits of the 3-link but more on that later.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227528-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=227528)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227526-1.jpg?1232123970

I'm not going to go into excruciating detail on the tub install. This thread outlines the process better than I ever could and it would be redundant to go over it in detail again. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900

I'll post a few photos here and there though.

Anybody need a complete rear suspension and 10-bolt rear for a 1968 Camaro? Free, if you come pick it up. Otherwise I'm tossing it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/17778227511-1.jpg?1232123889

[icebird84]

nice project , good work , keep it up

[Kenova]

The first step of this process was to remove the rear suspension assembly. It came out absurdly easily. Seriously, I didn't even need to break out any penetrating oil or even so much as a breaker bar. Everything came apart with a 3/8" drive ratchet and minimal effort.
Don't you just love it when that happens? My Nova was the same way when I pulled it apart. I felt like I'd won the lottery. How it made it through it's life without suffering the ravages of the rust belt, I'll never know.

Ken

[Damn True]

Well this car lived in the area of San Jose, CA for 35 years of it's life so it has something of an advantage in that regard.

[Damn True]

This just in: plasma cutters are freakin bitchin!

I got one of my inner fender wells cut out last night. Took about 2hrs to drill out all the spot welds and cut out the material. I should be able to do the other side Tues night.

[Steve68]

I want more info on the boards on the rack, the red, the green, and the one standing up.

I have 2 Surfboards Hawaii, ones a 66' triple stringer, and the others a 10'5 Nose rider, newer model, but it has double red wood stringer, can't wait till spring!

[Damn True]

The green one is a 1963 Gregg Noll
The white and orange are both newer, shaped by Randy Rarrick.

The one leaning against the wall is a skateboard that I made. Copied an 18th century Hawaiian paipo board at the Bishop Museum. I have a friend that is one of the curators there and he let me trace a template from it.

[Steve68]

Cool, do they see any action, I don't know how far MV is from the coast,

Post up some pics of the tub job, Idoing mine at teh same time, couple of spot drilling and ones out,

[Damn True]

A few times a year. I am about an hour from the beach.

I used to surf once or twice a day when I lived in Hawaii, but here, it's a long drive, the water is cold and the waves are often lousy.

This is by far the best chronicle of the tub process I've seen. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900 I will post a couple of progress photos, but I see no need to duplicate what has been done so well.

[Steve68]

I've never seen that thread!, thanks,

I grew up in Cocoa Beach, Been surfing since I was 7, now my G/F and our girls are interested 7 and 10, so were at my old house on the beach every weekend, I live about 45 min away,

[Damn True]

Very cool.

Do you take the kids out tandem?

[Steve68]

The 7yr old and I have started, but the board was shorter, the bigger 10' should be good for both,

[6'9"Witha69]

It's all about the pop. If you can get up, you're half way there. That was the hardest part for me at least. Haven't been in years, used to go 3-4 times a week.


Holy thread hijack Batman!

[Damn True]

...and at 6'9" that is no small feat.

I don't care. We can rap about surfing a bit until my next thread update.

[6'9"Witha69]

...and at 6'9" that is no small feat.
Yeah, my surf buddies used to rag on me needing a long board for a short board, hard to find a good stable one for my size. Nevermind COG! It made skating really hard too once I got so tall.

[Damn True]

There used to be some photos of me and a few friends in Hawaii. I'll have to check the site tonight to see if they are still up. Don't want to access it from the office.

[Steve68]

I kept it semi car related, but everyone needs a good wave, no matter what coast your on,

[1971CHEVELLE]

this car is going to be awesome. Good work.....

[Damn True]

Goodchristonacrutch putting in mini-tubs SUCKS!

[awr68]

HAng in there True! The second side is easier!!

[Damn True]

Really struggling with cutting enough....but not too much.


....and DSE's "instructions"?

No bueno!

[awr68]

Take your time and trim a little at a time....this isn't a race! It actually can take longet to 'fit' the metal than it does to weld it in...but that goes for most metal projects.

[Damn True]

Hooo-Wee!

It is no fun trying to bend these fill plates. I tried clamping the plate to my workbench and wacking it with a hammer, and tried heating it a bit with a propane torch and tweaking it with a hand brake. No dice.

Any tips?

Gonna go to Lowes at lunch and get a big honkin vice and an even bigger hammer.


BTW, Allen and Vince were over at the house on Sunday to help me get everything fitted for the mini-tubs. I attempted to buy them off with beer and steak. They wouldn't take either......which kinda bummed me out because I was pretty hungry when they got there.

Seriously though, thanks guys. I really appreciate the help and will return the favor when asked.

[Part Time]

True, If you can score an old king pin from a class 8 truck steer axle or even an old transmission input shaft you can hammer form your frame close out with it. It worked for me anyway.

As for the rest of the close outs I took the DSE disk to Staples and had them printed on card stock to size, then I took them to a fab shop that had a lazer cutting table (think water jet ish) and had them cut out. Beats the heck out of standing over a band saw. DSE doesn't recommend it because of "car variances" but again, it worked for me.

Love your project, keep up the good work.

[Damn True]

Went and bought a big ol vice and a BFH. Took me about 15 min last night.

Right tool for the job and whatnot.

[trapin]

BFH. In my neck of the woods we call it a "Persuader".

[MrQuick]

Hooo-Wee!

It is no fun trying to bend these fill plates. I tried clamping the plate to my workbench and wacking it with a hammer, and tried heating it a bit with a propane torch and tweaking it with a hand brake. No dice.

Any tips?

Gonna go to Lowes at lunch and get a big honkin vice and an even bigger hammer.


BTW, Allen and Vince were over at the house on Sunday to help me get everything fitted for the mini-tubs. I attempted to buy them off with beer and steak. They wouldn't take either......which kinda bummed me out because I was pretty hungry when they got there.

Seriously though, thanks guys. I really appreciate the help and will return the favor when asked.
no problem True. Any time I can help I will try.

Too bad I had previous dinner plans I would have definitely would have ate...I don't drink any more so that's cool.

I like to use an old axle tube to put the bends into the filler plates. You get any new pictures ready?

because......
:postpics:

[Damn True]

I have a few photos, but I haven't been taking many of the tub process. Seems redundant since this thread has the process so well chronicled. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900

I'll try to get a few photos up this weekend.

One thing I didn't know......the frame rails are galvanized on the inside. Makes nifty white soot columns that stay in place when it cools. Yes....I know the zinc is toxic. The garage door was open with a fan on.

[Damn True]

Had a couple of requests for progress photos. Again, I am reticent to attempt to fully chronicle the process for installing mini-tubs in a 1st-Gen. It's been done, quite well I might add here: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900

That said. This is no easy task. By far the most labor intensive thing I've done thus far. Having the use of a Plasma Cutter is HIGHLY recommended.

Here is the passenger side with the OE tub freshly removed

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3915-1.jpg

Getting the decklid hinge bracket out on the pax side was something else. The drivers side was easy with five neat/clean spot welds that were easy to drill out. The Pax side though had a ton of them and they were oddly shaped . Required a fair bit of beating and banging with a chisel to get them out. Some of the welds spaned well over 1/2" and were oblong rather than round. Ugh.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3912-1.jpg

Sneaking up on cutting out the space for the new tub:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3920-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3921-1.jpg

I gotta say the instructions for this process are really bad. I mean horrible. DSE really needs to go through this process with someone who is not a member of their staff and rewrite the instructions under the assumption that the person doing the work isn't someone who has done it a dozen times.

I really needed to get the plasma cutter back to the guy I borrowed it from (our technical rep from Intel loaned his to me - Thanks Anthony!) so Vince and Allen came by on a Sunday to help me get everything that needed cutting...cut.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3922-1.jpg

Thanks for the help guys!!!

Here is the drivers side tub being "test fit". In this photo I have yet to weld in the fill plate so the gap is a bit wide and the tub is still sitting a little crooked because I've yet to fully grind flush the flange:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3925-1.jpg

Welding in the fwd fill plate on the drivers side:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3929-1.jpg

....and the aft plate on the drivers side clamped in place and about 1/2 tacked in:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3931-1.jpg

I've made a bit of progress since these photos were taken. I'll snap a few more tonight. Progress has been a bit slow of late. Work has been busy (beats the alternative) and my wife and I have had a lot going on as well. I hope to be able to wrap the tubs up within the next couple of weeks and then move on to cleaning all the undercoating off the bottom of the car in preparation for starting on the 3-link install. Though I may re-hang the front sheetmetal first. Not sure...

[Steve68]

Looks good True!

[Damn True]

Well now....this is a really fun surprise:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CP14-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CP15-1.jpg

[Part Time]

Congrats on the ink.

Deep tub install looks great. Keep the updates coming.

[TonyL]

Sweet! congrats True! there's nothing like seeing your words and car in print.

Oh, and give this to Steve for me.. "a" He apparently dropped it. =P

[Damn True]

So....yeah.....more photos.....

I have the fill plates on the drivers side complete.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3932-1.jpg

Still working on the passenger side. Nothing happened tonight. I decided to make a really nice lobster/scallop risotto for my wife tonight. BTW, Girgich Cellars Chardonnay.....get some.

So yeah....not all is grinding, wire-brushing and burning my junk with weld spatter.

We have some parts porn!

Front suspension coming together....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3934-1.jpg

ATS spindle
Speed-Tech Upper/Lower Control Arms
LG Motorsports brake backing plate
$2.00 worth of angle iron from Lowes pretending to be a shock absorber

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3935-1.jpg

ATS/Lee Manufacturing Steering gear:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3936-1.jpg

I know, I know...the nice cad plating.....CA EPA said Lee can't use the stuff anymore.....freakin hippies.

Something light and itchy and strangely similar to a decklid

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3938-1.jpg

One of my favorites up there on the top shelf......The Twist-Machine / Jakes Rod Shop rear spoiler. That thing makes me tingle in my special place.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3940-1.jpg

One of my next projects is to create a bulkhead out of all of these holes. Haven't decided if I want to weld a bit of metal into each of those openings, or just cover the whole thing up with a couple of sheets bent to fit. Suggestions?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3939-1.jpg

Ok...totally unrelated..... my wifes father installed this sink in the house. Her parents have both long since passed and we've totally renovated the entire house. I still have some of her Dad's tools and they still get used quite a bit which I think is kinda cool.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/CIMG3941-1.jpg

.....and a couple months ago in Grassroots Motorsports Magazine they did this silly test of commercial hand cleaners. They found that something rather odd worked better. That's whats in the white tub. A couple of days worth of coffee grounds and a few tablespoons of dawn. Seriously, it works amazingly well and sure is cheaper than commercial hand cleaners.

Thats all for now.....

[Steve68]

Filler panel are coming out nice,

Digging the spoiler too,

[jknight16]

ATS/Lee Manufacturing Steering gear:
I know, I know...the nice cad plating.....CA EPA said Lee can't use the stuff anymore.....freakin hippies.
.....

I wondered why mine came without the Cad finish, though I assumed it was because mine came from SC&C. Guess not. You're right, Damn hippies.

[Damn True]

I wondered why mine came without the Cad finish, though I assumed it was because mine came from SC&C. Guess not. You're right, Damn hippies.

I know....I thought maybe I'd gotten the wrong box until Tyler explained it to me.

[nicks67camaro]

I saw the spoiler in an earlier post. Very nice. How long ago did you get it? I couldn't find any for sale on their sites.

[Damn True]

Almost a year ago. They didn't make many. Which is kinda cool since you won't see them on every other car.

Best of all.......Rupp doesn't have one. HA!

[MWCC]

I've been watching this thread and absolutely love your build. Keep the pics and updates coming. I'm in the planning stages for my '79 Z and have been on the fence where to go with it. You are giving me some great ideas. I just need to figure out a name for my project and move forward.

Awesome job True!!

[WS6]

for a rear filler panel to cover the back seat area, I would either do aluminum or do some research on vacuum bagging fiberglass. It's not hard or expensive and it will be very light weight. Hardest part will be making a mold that's strong enough to handle the pressure and not deform. Looking great True. Keep up the good work.

[Damn True]

You just gave me an idea.

[Damn True]

Got the passenger side fill panels done last night. I'll be starting to fit the drivers side tub tonight.

Hope it fits.......I'd hate like hell to have to cut all that stuff back out.

[Motown 454]

Nice progress, I like what your doing.

[trapin]

Best of all.......Rupp doesn't have one. HA!
Wait a while. He will.

[Flash68]

Love the aluminum spoiler.

[WS6]

Got the passenger side fill panels done last night. I'll be starting to fit the drivers side tub tonight.

Hope it fits.......I'd hate like hell to have to cut all that stuff back out.

You could easily do a relief or built up part in the center of the mold of a logo if you have one for the car or a bow tie, "chevrolet", "camaro", or even "1/2 Trak". Once the glass is laid on top and molded to it, you'll have a nice logo in the panel that also acts as structure to keep the panel from bending and flexing.

[Damn True]

Bubble-gummy goodness

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3953-1.jpg

[Damn True]

Well the drivers side tub is all but finished. Just need to grind the welds down a bit, close over that flap on the lower forward bit and hit it with the seam sealer.

I have a quart of seam sealer from Eastwood, but I'm wondering if it might be better to use a different product that is more of a caulk type. Any thoughts?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3943-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3944-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3945-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3948-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3949-1.jpg

[nicks67camaro]

I used the 3m Fast and Firm seam sealer on the all the joints with great results. I then used a spray on type rubberized undercoating inside the whole tub instead of paint. This I like b/c it is can deflect objects like rocks with out chips and acts like a damper to help control the noise.

3M Link (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQCEK3_nid=GSGCH11JGMgs6 DTWTJQPBBglGSH0RT5G3Fbl)

Rubberized undercoating Link (http://raybuck.com/i-68314-rusfre-brush-on-rubberized-undercoating.html)

[1969CamaroRS]

Awesome project. You gotta post some pics of your trunk welding ;)

I used the Eastwood seam sealer was very happy with how it applied and hardened. Not too hard still had some play to it.

[MuscleRodz]

.....and a couple months ago in Grassroots Motorsports Magazine they did this silly test of commercial hand cleaners. They found that something rather odd worked better. That's whats in the white tub. A couple of days worth of coffee grounds and a few tablespoons of dawn. Seriously, it works amazingly well and sure is cheaper than commercial hand cleaners.

Thats all for now.....I have gone to using foaming Dawn, works better than any other hand cleaner I have used.

[98ssnova]

I have gone to using foaming Dawn, works better than any other hand cleaner I have used.
Yes I use this stuff all the time I don't even buy GOJO or other hand clearners.

[sjakes]

True, just stumbled onto your build. Great job!

I'm doing a '68 kind of similar. Mine will be a Trans Am Race Replica and it's almost complete. Do you know of anywhere that currently carries the spoiler like the one you have photo'd and a valance for the lower front?

I think it has to be the aluminum with turnbuckles both in the front and rear for my car.

Thanks in advance!
Shawn

[Damn True]

The decklid spoiler was a limited edition production run from Jakes Rod Shop / Twist-Machine. They don't have any more of them.

The front will be fabbed by me based on a template from Vanzuuk1

[Flash68]

The decklid spoiler was a limited edition production run from Jakes Rod Shop / Twist-Machine. They don't have any more of them.



They are open to doing production runs of 5 or 10 of the spoilers if they have the orders taken beforehand. I have inquired myself.

[Damn True]

Ahhhh the tubs are done. Thank God allmighty the tubs are done!

Well, I still need to seam seal everything, but I think I'm going to wait until after I finish the rear suspension install and seam seal the whole shootin match at once.

The black stuff is Eastwood "Rust Encapsulator". They said it makes a primer/sealer for underbody stuff so I went with it. I'll seam seal then cover everything in "Lizard Skin" sound/heat attenuation material.

Pax side tub from the inside:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG4003-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3998-1.jpg

Drivers side tub, from the outside:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3997-1.jpg

Drivers side from inside the trunk.

Tweaking the trunk hinge support to fit the profile of the new tub was quite a challenge. I bent, unbent and rebent each of them at least 1/2-doz times.

The sheetmetal is a bit ugly just above the weld. I had to hammer the tub to fit the curvature of the cutout. I'll hit it with a little trunk spatter and if that doesn't hide the ripples I'll break out the hammer/dolly and smooth it.......I hope to not have to though.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG3992-1.jpg


Finished up the subframe connector as well. Welded back in the relief cut in the seat pan trimmed the body drain plug to fit, welded that in and primed the whole mess.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/CIMG4000-1.jpg



Next up on the hit parade.....stripping all the undercoat from the bottom of the car. This is gonna be a messy freakin job. I am not looking forward to it, but it's got to be done prior to installing the 3-link and sending it off for a cage.

Thanks for watching.....

[CruizinKev]

very nice project! looks like you're drinking red wine instead beer when working on the car? :Alchy: :cheers: j/k

[Damn True]

very nice project! looks like you're drinking red wine instead beer when working on the car? :Alchy: :cheers: j/k

Man cannot live on beer alone. Trust me, I've tried it.

I'd just finished dinner when I went out to the garage to take the photos. Still finishing my wine. A friend of ours has a winery in Healdsburg, CA. It's a really nice Carignane.

[Ron S]

Sometimes alittle alcohol makes the work go smoother{sometimes its a train wreck}.Looks good True,you have to keep telling yourself that the bad part is behind me.I know its a lie,but it keeps you working.Sheetmetal sucks ,the suspension won't be near as bad.LOL

[Kenova]

Next up on the hit parade.....stripping all the undercoat from the bottom of the car. This is gonna be a messy freakin job. I am not looking forward to it, but it's got to be done prior to installing the 3-link and sending it off for a cage.

Thanks for watching.....
You're getting there True!
Don't be afraid to put some heat to the undercoating when you are scraping it off. It makes a world of difference.
Will you be able to post pictures of the cage install? It usually draws a good crowd lol.

Ken

[Damn True]

Thanks, that is the plan. I bought a kit from Eastwood that includes a heat gun a couple different scrapers and a solvent that is supposed to loosen the stuff up.

As for the cage photos, well, that'll come after the 3-link install but yes. There will be plenty of photos of the process. The guy who will be doing it takes A LOT of photos during the process. He has quite a library of different solutions.

[Damn True]

I know I said the next task was to remove undercoating from the car but I just couldn't bring myself to crawl around on the floor tonight. My back has been bothering me a bit and......oh now I'm just making excuses....I didn't freakin feel like it. Ok?

So anyway I got a bit of lightweight goodness in the mail a few weeks back:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG39381-1.jpg

Fiberglass decklid from VFN fiberglass. Weighs less than 10lbs :twothumbs

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG4004-1.jpg

Pretty darn smooth right out of the box. I'm hoping for minimal bodywork. But...it is delivered a bit oversized which is, I suppose, better than undersized.

[Michael Scott] Thats what she said! [/Michael Scott]

Sooo I had to take a template from the OE decklid and transfer it to the fiberglass replacement. You can see here that the fiberglass decklid is about 1/4" larger than the template. It's oversized by about that much on each axis.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG4008-1.jpg

Transferring the template. I am totally good at coloring!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG4013-1.jpg

The line is actually at least 3/16" fat all the way around. So what I'll do is cut to the line then begin test fitting and sneak up on the final dimension little by little.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG4014-1.jpg

After a bit of sanding....but quite a bit more to go.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG4016-1.jpg

[David Sloan]

Very cool !
keep up the good work.

[Damn True]

Thank you David.

[Damn True]

Having a bit of trouble fitting this decklid.

The two forward "corners" (but they are kinda round so....?) are sitting really high relative to the top of the rear fender and filler panel adjacent to them. It's sitting about 1/4" high on both fwd corners.

This part:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/CIMG4014-1.jpg

I think the structure of the underside of decklid itself is a bit too thick and it is hitting the trunk seal/flange early.

Solutions?

[WS6]

can't help with fitting the deck lid, True. Keep up the good work though. Couple months and I may be finally adding my own projecvt thread to this forum.

[David Sloan]

Quote
I think the structure of the underside of decklid itself is a bit too thick and it is hitting the trunk seal/flange early.

Solutions?

Check to make sure that is the problem or not.
you can also get a little adjustment out of the spring to inner tub mounting location. (raising or lowering)
meaning you will need to cut them loose, adjust an check until you got it right. (or as right as it will get)
I hope that made scene.

[Code Red]

getting there man

[Damn True]

The seal flange is definitely making contact early.

I'll get a couple of pics up in a few hours.

[redfire69]

Yeah you may need to cut and move the hinge brackets down where they attach to the inner wheel wells. This is especially true on mini-tubs due to their slightly different shape. BTW, nice build!

[Damn True]

The hinge pivot location is unchanged. Moving it lower would exacerbate the problem.

All that changes in a mini-tub is the length of the lower bracket. The hinge resides in the upper bracket which does not move.

[JEFFTATE]

Wine !
That's pretty good ...!

Your work area is very BRIGHT True.
That's nice !
I'm gonna have to paint my garage white so I can see !

[David Sloan]

The seal flange is definitely making contact early.

I'll get a couple of pics up in a few hours.

OK for get about moving the hinge mounts at this time.

It sounds like you will have to cut in to the flange area to fix this problem, hard to tell with out seeing it.

[796spdbu]

Im not sure if this will help,but it worked for a friend of mine. He couldnt get his glass fenders or trunk lid to fit the shape of his car either. His solution was to lay down a few towels and set a few weights on the high spots and let gravity do its thing. It took maybe 2 weeks worth of sitting but they finnally lined up. I guess in a last ditch effort you may try his way..then while you wait......you could..umh..maybe start on that under coating????:idea:

[redfire69]

Try installing the bump stops too at the back. I noticed this did affect the fitment at front, on my car at least. And the hinge point could get moved up or down depending on how much metal has been removed. When I got my car I did not have a reference point since most of the back half was removed and the area around the hinges and package tray were sagging down (quarters, inner/outer ww, trunk floor, frame rails, tail pan gone).

[Damn True]

I removed 3/16-1/4" of material from the trunk lid and re-glassed it. Helped a bit but the two leading corners of the lid are still sitting too "proud". I am going to try the bump stop on the trailing edge tonight.

[Damn True]

Screw it!

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55235

Anyone want a fiberglass decklid? I'm certain that the issue is fixable, I just don't want to mess with it any more.

[TitoJones]

LOL!

That was the fastest sale thread in PT history. 4 minutes from posting to sold.
Tyler

[Damn True]

Knocked out a couple of things tonight.

Had to re-clock the brake cooling ducts on the spindles because they were going to hit the frame. So I had to disassemble the spindle & hub. Easier than it sounds with the fine instructions on Tylers website. How many mfr's post this kind of detail on their website?

Data sheets and install instructions here: http://www.t56kit.com/downloads/

The spindle instructions here: http://www.americantouringspecialties.com/downloads/files/7.pdf

In the process of re-clocking the backing plate/duct I had to relocate the three holes that are used to clamp the backing plate between the spindle and hub. In doing so I have discovered my new favorite tool.

The uni-bit is freaking awesome! Where have these things been all my life!?!?!?!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4089-1.jpg

So got that done on both sides pretty easily and went to work on a little more lightweight love.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4092-1.jpg

These things weigh NO-THING. Two of them together weigh a tick under 1/2 of just one of the steel OE units. And......super-bonus.....they FIT! I did have to drill all the holes, but hell, that's a whole lot easier than......don't get me started.....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4093-1.jpg

See....they fit! Sweet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4091-1.jpg


...and yeah....I'm blowing off the VFN decklid and getting this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/1zwp66r-1.jpg

Anyone wanna take on the task of finishing fitting that fiberglass unit is welcome to it. I'm out of talent and patience with it. PM me and we can agree on a fair price.

[Damn True]

Carbon fiber goodness arrived on the brown truck today.

Oooooooh.......sexy........light........shiny..... ...

I almost hate to paint it.

[WS6]

So don't :)

Glad to hear the inner fenders went in easier than the deck lid did. I love uni-bits as well.

[Damn True]

So don't :)

Glad to hear the inner fenders went in easier than the deck lid did. I love uni-bits as well.

Too shiny.

[MrQuick]

Too shiny.
just scuff it up with some 80 grit. LOL

Your gonna be pretty tail lite now.


vince

[Damn True]

just scuff it up with some 80 grit. LOL

Your gonna be pretty tail lite now.


vince


There's gonna be an LS, glass inners and a composite hood up front, a cage, fuel cell (and structure) and the 3-link out back. Should work out fine.

Shipka's car came out with about 46% on the rear and he is all steel.

I think I might be able to improve on that a bit.

[Code Red]

so are you itchy enough yet? lol thats the only bad thing about fiberglass

[Damn True]

Switched to carbon. It fits really nicely.

If anyone wants the VFN fiberglass decklid I'll sell it to them CHEAP. I just ran out of talent and motivation to get it fitted.

[WS6]

You can always add ballast to the rear if necessary. I say lighten it up as much as possible first. Then add back what you need to if you need to at all.

You could spray flat clear over the CF parts to make them less shiny but still show the fiber

[bingham72]

Very nice project. I'll be following your sets when i get to painting my subframe. I think the history behind it is awesome. It reminded me of a couple other Playboy "vehicles" I remember seeing from my past. I hope this gives you a little inspiration as to where to include the "Bunny" when you get around to it. I think in the headrests would be cool.

[Damn True]

Thanks. Make sure you check the factory welds around the UCA mounts very closely. One of mine was cracked.

I don't think I'll use the actual bunny logo. It just reminds me too much of the bunny logo air fresheners. There will be a touch of pink incorporated in the car.

Where and how will remain a surprise.

[hotrdblder]

i have steel fenders, hood, etc my suspension, tq arm rear, dry sump ls, 12 point cage using 1.75x.134 tubing, car weighed 3190 on my intercomp deluxe scales, with a 52/48 weight, front weight is 6 lbs off side to side, rear is 21, and battery is on heavy side.
you will be all set true and will probably end up 51/49, do some set back and your there.

[Damn True]

Good info, thanks Jake.

I'm considering a few other weight saving measures as well. I really hope to get this thing at or below 3k

[zman1969]

really- under 3k good luck with all that how bout this logo for ya?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Damn True]

Holy schnikey work has been busy. Haven't had a day off in close to three weeks and thus haven't had much time to work on the car lately but found myself with a couple of free hours tonight. So I decided to remove a big heavy thing from the car:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4099-1.jpg

The heater core. Lead, brass, ugly and GONE!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4100-1.jpg

But.....a big gaping hole. A number of different things I could do here. I could buy one of those DSE panels and pay quite a lot for what in reality is a simple hunk of steel with a bevel rolled on the edge.....nah! I could do the street-rod-esque firewall smoothing bit......nah!

Which begs the question; "What Would Smokey Do?"

Well.....I'd like to think Smokey would have just tossed the factory delete plate on the hole and moved on. I went a tad further than just that, by welding up the mounting holes from the OE heater core, and welding in a fill plate in the original hole. Then drilled and cleco'd in the panels to check the fit. Took me just shy of two hours.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4104-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/CIMG4105-1.jpg

I'll finish it up with seam sealer and rivets after I paint the firewall. Of course that won't happen till the cage is finished.

There will be a heat/def unit of course. Vintage Air makes this nifty little heat only (no AC) unit.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2242841640065608932BKChyx

Yes.......I am avoiding climbing under the car and removing the undercoating.

[mazspeed]

I love that color scheme. If I would have seen that before I painted my car, it would be that right there.

[zbugger]

You know, True, I could come over with a torch and burn it all off for you. It'd smell bad, and I'd be there forever, and your neighbors would hate you, but it'd get done. Right?

[Damn True]

You know, True, I could come over with a torch and burn it all off for you. It'd smell bad, and I'd be there forever, and your neighbors would hate you, but it'd get done. Right?

I have that removal kit from eastwood with the thermonuclear heat gun and a solvent stuff for the last residue....and I have a propane torch for the really tough stuff. I also have a nephew at SJ state who needs money.

See where I'm going with this?

Kathy and I are going out of town later this month and he'll probably house-sit for us and have a chance to earn a little extra if he gets that crap off the bottom of the car before I get home.

[Damn True]

I love that color scheme. If I would have seen that before I painted my car, it would be that right there.

Thanks. I like your car a lot too.

[Steve68]

So True, the cover for the fan is a Factory Delate part, talk about a time savings trimming, cutting, welding. Who did you get it from?

[Damn True]

So True, the cover for the fan is a Factory Delate part, talk about a time savings trimming, cutting, welding. Who did you get it from?

The two panels constitute 2/3 of the factory heater delete stuff. It doesn't come with the delete plate for the dash center panel. Ordered it from Rick's 1st Gen.

Honestly, I could have just backed the panel with body adhesive and then riveted it up, or just welded the panels to the OE firewall. But I elected to fill the OE holes first to compensate for the loss in rigidity of the firewall from the heater hole.

The whole thing took less than 2hrs.

[Steve68]

Thank you very much!

Ricks is my favorite, well, was before corporate buy out!

[Rhino]

The whole thing took less than 2hrs.

I love the look, and quick to boot.
If I would have known those were available as a reproduction, I never would have filled my heater hole in the first place. There's one weekend of my life I'll never get back. :machine:

[Damn True]

I love the look, and quick to boot.
If I would have known those were available as a reproduction, I never would have filled my heater hole in the first place. There's one weekend of my life I'll never get back. :machine:

I still filled the heater hole and the two triangular holes for the water fittings. I just didn't spend any more than maybe 10-15 min cleaning up the welds because I am covering them up with the delete plate.

[hechtrod]

Thought I'd show some love up in here. One word! This build is awesome! K, that was 4. Love the wheels in your concept. I dig the trans am style. I love all the DIY stuff you're doing. Inspirational!
Chris

[Part Time]

Thought I'd show some love up in here. One word! This build is awesome! K, that was 4. Love the wheels in your concept. I dig the trans am style. I love all the DIY stuff you're doing. Inspirational!
Chris

Stop it, you're going to make me cry.

[TitoJones]

I hella hate this car!

:-)

Had to be done.


Tyler

[Damn True]

I hella hate this car!

:-)

Had to be done.


Tyler


[cough] eatme [cough]

[TitoJones]

[cough] eatme [cough]

Nice ninja edit Mr. Moderator. My inbox tells another tale for another time.

Tutumutha****inJones.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/fistof-1.jpg

[hechtrod]

I hella hate this car!

:-)

Had to be done.


Tyler

I'm never gonna live this hella crap down am I? :bsjerk: ha ha
The only way I'll get any respect is to build a proper car isn't it!? I better get on that then...

K, back on topic with 1/2 Trak's 'maro...

Chris

[CliffS]

There will be a heat/def unit of course. Vintage Air makes this nifty little heat only (no AC) unit.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...65608932BKChyx (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2242841640065608932BKChyx)

That's a nice heater. Do you have a part#?
Tnx

[Damn True]

I think it's 50615-VUH

[sik68]

I think it's 50615-VUH

Lookin good!

I really want to shed my stock heater unit as well...how much did that stock heater core weigh?

[Damn True]

I dunno. I'd guess the combined weight of the interior stuff and the stuff under the hood to be 20-25lbs.

[Damn True]

I've put it off long enough. Tonight and tomorrow the undercoating will be removed from the tub. Dreading it, but it's gotta be done before I can start the 3-link install.

[Alan66ss]

True,

I like it - I used to wonder if you had a car - now I know. I wish I could move as fast on mine as you are on yours. Keep it up.

Alan

[Damn True]

Had the car for YEARS. Didn't start working on it until last Aug.

Probably for the best. This way I've had tons of time to plan and evaluate different options. Hopefully that'll mitigate having to do and re-do stuff a bunch of times.

[Damn True]

Mercy sakes this is a miserable job! The best (worst) part is that when the car is done, nobody will ever, ever say, "Gee, you did a really nice job removing the old undercoating. Completely thankless labor.

I'd scraped for a while and swept the floor when the debris got too messy twice before I took this photo. This is the third cycle of mess from the fourth circle of hell. Nothing but a heat gun, various scrapers and a wire wheel......and beer......and the Giants on the radio.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/CIMG4201-1.jpg

Looking from the drivers side rear toward the front. I left the bottom of the trunk pan alone, that'll be cut out. The dark bits forward of the back seatbelt mounts are just grease/dirt. That'll come off with simple green

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/CIMG4202-1.jpg


I made it to the front seatbelt mounts and had to stop.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/CIMG4205-1.jpg

I hope to finish the scraping tomorrow and start with the de-greasing. I have a plan in mind for that. Not sure if it'll work. Good thing the wife will be away. It's going to be messy. :1st:

[David Sloan]

This is were you can really appreciate a rotisserie.
It still Suck's but its not as bad as laying on your back an doing it.
You can be proud of it even if most people want know what you went thur.
Keep up the good work!

[NOT A TA]

I've done some cleaning on jackstands like that lately. Brake clean, a wooden paint stirrer to scrape with, lots of rags, nitrile gloves, and a sheet to catch the debris worked pretty well.

[Steve1968LS2]

Mercy sakes this is a miserable job! The best (worst) part is that when the car is done, nobody will ever, ever say, "Gee, you did a really nice job removing the old undercoating. Completely thankless labor.

I'd scraped for a while and swept the floor when the debris got too messy twice before I took this photo. This is the third cycle of mess from the fourth circle of hell. Nothing but a heat gun, various scrapers and a wire wheel......and beer......and the Giants on the radio.

Looking from the drivers side rear toward the front. I left the bottom of the trunk pan alone, that'll be cut out. The dark bits forward of the back seatbelt mounts are just grease/dirt. That'll come off with simple green

I made it to the front seatbelt mounts and had to stop.

I hope to finish the scraping tomorrow and start with the de-greasing. I have a plan in mind for that. Not sure if it'll work. Good thing the wife will be away. It's going to be messy. :1st:

We used laquer thinner to get the underside clean after scraping.. there is no fun way to do it, but the end result is nice.

[venturabeachpup]

I can sympathize with you right now True. We're actually doing the same thing on our project. Iv'e been setting daily goals by the square inch. Happy cleaning and don't let up! LOL

[mach1stang]

I did the easy way.

I took a grinder with a wire wheel and made a 10 inch by 10 inch square.

Then had a guy give me $400 buck to get that huck of junk truck out of there.

And at the end of the day... I was pleased with what I got done.


Real nice project you got there!!