Filling SBC 400ci steam holes, How??

[69CamaroLS1]

Hello,
I have a production 400ci small chevy, i want to machine O-ring groves around the cylinder bores, but first i need to block off the steam holes cuz they would be in the way of the groove (im using Hard Block Filler), should i braze them or fill it with a good quality Devcon(glue), or ...?????

Has anyone preformed this procedure before?? if so, did it have good results??

P.S. The block bores have been already honed.

Your answers will be greatly appreciated, thanx in advance :smoke:

[SShep71]

Goodson sells plugs for block decks, primarily the 3 large holes in between the cylinders. They are 3/4" NPT, and have a 1/2" female square hole, P.N. DPK-SB. I dont know if you will be able to use them for your application (its been a LONG time since ive even looked at a 400 block) but it will give you an idea of where to start. Check your local industrial supply store or auto parts store. I know there are smaller sizes available, just not through Goodson. You will have to deck the block and drill some water passage holes through the plugs but it should work. GOOD LUCK!!


-Shep

[ProdigyCustoms]

Plugs are the way to go, but why O ring? I have done a few, still run one now, but am pulling them out soon as I do a rebuild and replacing the copper gaskets and O rings with Cometics. Also, the O rings should not interfere with anything anyway.

[69CamaroLS1]

Plugs are the way to go, but why O ring? I have done a few, still run one now, but am pulling them out soon as I do a rebuild and replacing the copper gaskets and O rings with Cometics. Also, the O rings should not interfere with anything anyway.

Thanx guys,
GROOV-MATIC "O" RING TOOL: A tool designed and manufactured by Iskenderian to cut a groove around the cylinder. After the groove is cut, copper wire is inserted so that .010 of the wire is above the plane of the block. The purpose of the raised portion of wire is to increase the pressure on the head gasket around the cylinder to prevent pressure leaks when supercharging the engine, but when i keep the cutting tool on the block the steam holes are in the way so like you have said i have to plug them, Yes plugs are the best way to do the job Thanx alot :usa:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Oh, I am real familiar with the process. So I ask again, why O rings? O rings are famous for coolant issues. Everyone I have ever done had to run Alumi seal or something similiar in the water to seal water leaks. O rings are so old school in the advent of Cometics, and that coming from an old school guy!
Cometics will handle more boost then most any street car would bear. bolt on the Cometics and be done.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yeah,
I'm with Frank. Chevies have a sufficient number of head bolts (17 per head?) and Cometic gaskets rock. If your heads have sufficient deck thickness and the engine is built right, O-ringing is overkill.

Are we missing something here? Are you building something that'll go to the moon? Crazy double digit boost plus nitrous?

Now Fords, on the other hand--not enough head bolts (10 skinny bolts per head)

[69CamaroLS1]

Yeah,
I'm with Frank. Chevies have a sufficient number of head bolts (17 per head?) and Cometic gaskets rock. If your heads have sufficient deck thickness and the engine is built right, O-ringing is overkill.

Are we missing something here? Are you building something that'll go to the moon? Crazy double digit boost plus nitrous?

Now Fords, on the other hand--not enough head bolts (10 skinny bolts per head)

AHAHAHA maybe to mars, its just i really trust u guys thats why i asked in this forum, actually im building a 406ci with forged rotating assymbly, Brodix X11 heads, solid roller cam...etc for drag racing not pro-touring (91 Camaro), i already have the 51 cooper gaskit & the isky grooving tool so i thought it will be a good thing doing the grooves, if u guys think i dont need the grooves for 200-250 shots of nitrous i will save time not doing it, thanx alot for your response.

[Ricoch3T]

Oh, I am real familiar with the process. So I ask again, why O rings? O rings are famous for coolant issues. Everyone I have ever done had to run Alumi seal or something similiar in the water to seal water leaks. O rings are so old school in the advent of Cometics, and that coming from an old school guy!
Cometics will handle more boost then most any street car would bear. bolt on the Cometics and be done.

We had orings in our race blocks before, and its really not worth it. We still had head trouble before we switched to cometic gaskits. But if you reallly wanna help the problem, drill a hole between the two middle cylinders on each head (into the water jacket), run a return from there to your water pump to pull the hot water out of there. (I think we tapped the back of our electric water pumps). But whatever water pump you run make sure its pulling the water out instead of putting it in. I think theres actually a bulletin somewhere on the process. I can't member now. Anyhow, no problems since and it def helps.

Forgot to mention, newer chevy heads may come with this already, I hadn't bought any heads in a long time.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Ricoch is correct, we drill the block between 4 and 6, and 3 and 5 and tap into the side of the water pump. My filled street racer motor is like this. We also have bypasses from the rear to the front on either side on the intake. These tricks, a meziere pump, standard 4 row universal Griffin, and an oil cooler, and we are good to cruise with no heating issues in Florida.
A important note though, if you are going to street cruise, you need an oil cooler on filled motors as the filler acts as a heat sink, and is rough on oil.
I could e mail a pic if you need on the pluming for the bypasses.

[69CamaroLS1]

Wow thanx alot guys, i dont think im going to drive the car on the streets im going to fill the block with hard filler , i just want to race with this engine & i think cometic gaskits is the sulotion for me i think i will have no problem with a new **** face and cylinder heads, Cometic gaskit is it all the way :usa:

[DRJDVM's '69]

Can you guys give me more info on Cometics gaskets ??

I've never heard of them before....sounds nice. I'm planning on building a supercharged motor and was worried about the gasket seal too...

Never mind.... I found their website..........

[gmachinz]

Frank, can you send me that diagram of external plumbing? How well do you think that process would aid cooling in a non-400 SB? If it helps even just a little, I'm going to do it. -Jabin [email protected]

[ItsA68]

we drill the block between 4 and 6, and 3 and 5 and tap into the side of the water pump.

Are you saying that you just run coolant out of the block at these locations? I HAVE seen heads that were tapped in these locations for coolant lines, but not the block. I had heard that Vizard would drill a hole between the siamesed cylinders to let the gases go to the top of the block, instead of going up through the deck, like on the SB400. I am wondering about the necessity of this because I have a Dart Little M 4.125 bore block, and it has siamesed cylinders, and NO steam holes. I have read/heard everthing from "don't worry about it, just use a good water pump" to go ahead a mod the block for steam holes. I thought Vizards idea sounded good, and planned to ask my machine shop if they had ever performed this procedure. Any experience with this? I'm building a 500+hp street motor for my 68 Camaro.

~~fred

[ProdigyCustoms]

Here is a pic of what I realize after this pic, is a very tired looking motor in my street racer. Damn I got some detailing to do! Sorry I didn't respond earlier G, I missed your question. Fred, yes is moves coolant here. Works killer. The block on this car is a factory 2 bolt, now splayed, straped, filled to the bottom of the freeze plugs, and it runs cool on the street in 95 dgree heat with this bypass and the front to rear bypass on the intake. I use a Meziere 35GPM pump and a 18" electric fan, not shroud, on a Griffen.

[ItsA68]

I hope this isn't a really dumb question, but aren't the legs of the pump going into the block the pressure side of the water pump? It appears your line is tapped into these leggs, which would make the cooler water going into the block below the deck between the center two cylinders. Please tell me If I misunderstand....In a std cooling system the water comes out of the bottom of the radiator, into the pump, pressurized into the block through the big two holes in front, through the length of the block, and then bubbles up through the holes in the deck, into the heads, back along the length of the heads, and out through the thermostat housing.... It seems like your mod could also work if you drilled and tapped the heads just above the deck between the two center cylinders where its hottest.

Clarification appreciated....

~~fred

[ProdigyCustoms]

It is drawing the hotter water through like a water jet. Ever use a yard sprayer you hook up to a garden hose. It pulls the fuid right out of the jug.

[Ricoch3T]

Here is a pic of what I realize after this pic, is a very tired looking motor in my street racer. Damn I got some detailing to do! Sorry I didn't respond earlier G, I missed your question. Fred, yes is moves coolant here. Works killer. The block on this car is a factory 2 bolt, now splayed, straped, filled to the bottom of the freeze plugs, and it runs cool on the street in 95 dgree heat with this bypass and the front to rear bypass on the intake. I use a Meziere 35GPM pump and a 18" electric fan, not shroud, on a Griffen.


Looks like you drilled the block though, the method I mentioned was drilling the head between the two middle cylinders to remove the hot water between them. Wish I had a picture of it to better explain, also you may want to check your lines prod, we used them in the legs like that b/c we were trying to push the water in and it ended up not flowing any water at all. Actually one car flowed fine, another didn't and ended up burning the head again. Even since then we changed them to pulling out of the head right there.. Theres actually a place in the back of the meziere that will suck instead of push.

[ProdigyCustoms]

All I can say is with this block filled, and we still run ice cold with nothing more then a universal Griffin and one 16" cheapo electric fan, and no shroud. So I can only assume it works. I have not spent much time applying science to it. I was taught the trick some years ago, and use it with good results.
Where on the Mezire are you talking about drawing from.

[69CamaroLS1]

Thanx alot guys for the great info, with your help i finished building my 406ci for drag racing in the persian gulf, i wanted to partecipate for the 1st drag race ever in Kingdom of Bahrain but unfortunatly the head gaskits didnt arrive on time, this engine is for my 1986 Camaro iroc with a build TH350 with trans brake & 9'' ford rear end with 4.30 gear :camaro: i know this is not a pro touring related topic but i really trust u guys.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

this is our Drag Strip.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Pat Musi Camaro was there too.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Ricoch3T]

I know its the back of the pump somewhere. I'll have to wait till we pull the cars out again for this year to know for sure. Theres a spot back there you can drill and it pulls the water. If yours is working fine then more than likely its good. But if you do drain it sometime for somereason its good to check and make sure it is flowing. It works fine that way we used it for a while with good results. Didn't mean to say it was wrong or anything :naughty: