Yay! Finally got an LS1! Now I need help, lol.

[DarkoNova]

Ok so I finally got an LS1 and now I need help with a few things. First let me brag about the motor. It's out of a 2002 SLP SS Camaro, has an LS6 intake, and only has 42000 miles. All accessories and stuff, just no PCM. Pretty good deal, I think, for $2000.

Anyway, I want to get the MS4 cam and I emailed Texas Speed with no response. Basically I'm wondering if the cam will work with my rear gear ratio. I've got 3.42 gears and rear tires with a 25.7" tall tire. I'd like to keep the 3.42's since I can cruise at 70 at around 2000 rpms, though if I have to go deeper I will.

Now onto the clutch. The motor didn't come with a flywheel or clutch, so does anyone know of a good cheap clutch and *preferably* a cheap aluminum flywheel? I've got a TKO-600, and I think it's a 26 spline input shaft, but I could be wrong. I also need to know if the hydraulic setup for a T56 will work with my TKO.

Also where can I get a computer that's tuned to my engine? I only know of Speartech. Are there any cheaper alternatives?

There's also a few tubes/wires that the seller just cut and I don't know what they are or where they go, so I'll snap some pics tonight or tomorow.

I might have more questions, but that's all I can think of right now.

Thanks,
Matt

[deviousz28]

Dang good deal.

Flywheel, and clutch depends on which TKO 600 you have. The input shaft depth and what bellfousing your using.

A PCM flashed as a 2002 Camaro with manual transmission can be had for $100. I have a extra if you need one. Tuning is best done local. The AF tables, and other parameters can never be dead on, if not.

The cam can be 224 600 112 and still cruise. Anything bigger needs more rpm. Tuning helps the cam surge, and idle quality more than anything. You can buy some smaller cams on LS1 and save some money.

Engine harness, mounting, exhaust and fuel delivery, are you next big decisions.

[WS6]

an MS4 does not go well with 3.42s even if you have the low first gear in the TKO600. You need 3.90-4.10 minimum. MS4 is a drag cam anyway. ie crappy street cam. Pretty much any LS1/6 using a cam larger than 232 on the intake has no low end to speak of. Yes, it'll drive fine on the street but it's meant for drag racing. Personally, I prefer a much broader power band. I love 228/232 cams in LS1/6s. Just a great all around power band.

If you're planning any type of hard launching, do not use the aluminum flywheel. You'll want the extra inertia from a steel unit. SLP makes a billet steel unit that weighs less than stock but more than an aluminum. It would be a good middle ground. It is not cheap though.

If your TKO was designed for an SBC and is currently mounted to an SBC bell housing, just get the pilot bearing from GM that sits in the outer bore of the crank. This pilot bearing will correct the differences in input shaft length. I'll have to get the number for you later. I have a TKO600 sitting behind a 5.3 using an SBC bell housing and this bearing. Your bell housing must be 168 tooth style.

I don't think the T56 throwout bearing will work with the TKO600. McLeod makes a similar unit as does Howe Racing that will work though. You'll need to contact them for further info.

Any 99-04 PCM is what you need to get your hands on. They are all the same, they just have different programs in them for the different vehicles. Fbody seems to be the easiest to deal with programming for swaps like this. Mail order tuning is ok especially for getting down the road to the dyno shop where they can do a dyno AND street tune. Street tune will help with the drivability of the combo. You must get this done or you may face irritating nuances associated with the mods.

Congrats and good luck.

[DarkoNova]

Dang good deal.

Flywheel, and clutch depends on which TKO 600 you have. The input shaft depth and what bellfousing your using.

A PCM flashed as a 2002 Camaro with manual transmission can be had for $100. I have a extra if you need one. Tuning is best done local. The AF tables, and other parameters can never be dead on, if not.

The cam can be 224 600 112 and still cruise. Anything bigger needs more rpm. Tuning helps the cam surge, and idle quality more than anything. You can buy some smaller cams on LS1 and save some money.

Engine harness, mounting, exhaust and fuel delivery, are you next big decisions.

I'll definitely take the PCM. I don't have any money right now, but hopefully in about a week I'll be able to pick it up.


an MS4 does not go well with 3.42s even if you have the low first gear in the TKO600. You need 3.90-4.10 minimum. MS4 is a drag cam anyway. ie crappy street cam. Pretty much any LS1/6 using a cam larger than 232 on the intake has no low end to speak of. Yes, it'll drive fine on the street but it's meant for drag racing. Personally, I prefer a much broader power band. I love 228/232 cams in LS1/6s. Just a great all around power band.

If you're planning any type of hard launching, do not use the aluminum flywheel. You'll want the extra inertia from a steel unit. SLP makes a billet steel unit that weighs less than stock but more than an aluminum. It would be a good middle ground. It is not cheap though.

If your TKO was designed for an SBC and is currently mounted to an SBC bell housing, just get the pilot bearing from GM that sits in the outer bore of the crank. This pilot bearing will correct the differences in input shaft length. I'll have to get the number for you later. I have a TKO600 sitting behind a 5.3 using an SBC bell housing and this bearing. Your bell housing must be 168 tooth style.

I don't think the T56 throwout bearing will work with the TKO600. McLeod makes a similar unit as does Howe Racing that will work though. You'll need to contact them for further info.

Any 99-04 PCM is what you need to get your hands on. They are all the same, they just have different programs in them for the different vehicles. Fbody seems to be the easiest to deal with programming for swaps like this. Mail order tuning is ok especially for getting down the road to the dyno shop where they can do a dyno AND street tune. Street tune will help with the drivability of the combo. You must get this done or you may face irritating nuances associated with the mods.

Congrats and good luck.

See I'm kind of not sure what to do now. I was basically going to follow the build that Chevy Hi Performance (I think it was them) did. They put an MS4 cam and Stage 1 LS6 heads (I think, could be wrong on the heads) on an LS1 and got around 550 hp from what I remember. I know they used an electric water pump, no accessories, and race fuel, but I figured I'd still have 450-ish horsepower easy. And I've seen dyno videos of people swapping the stock cam for the MS4 and getting over 400 hp to the wheels. I DO want this car to be great in the twisties, but I still want it to go fast in a straight line.

Basically, what cam would you recommend that would get close to the same amount of power increase as the MS4 and still have that nice choppy idle?

Yeah, I have the TKO-600 mated to a 350 right now, if you could get the number for that pilot bearing I'd appreciate it.

Also, I was thinking. I've got a solid motor mount on the driver's side and everyone on this forum says that's a bad thing and it will cause a problem with the knock sensor. But over on LS1tech, there's a bunch of people with Camaros using solid mounts with no problems. There was even a thread where someone said he converted from the stock mounts to solid mounts and people were saying "good job."

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Matt

[West Texas Z]

Texas Speed and Performance here in Lubbock is supposally the best in LS series motors. I'd give them a call if I were you, I doubt they'd email you back with all the business they get from out of towners like you. I think they get more business from out of state buyers than from our own hometown racers. They are known all over the US but rarelly see any local cars sport their parts. Just my .02

[streetk14]

I think those Magic Stick cams are way too big for a street car that you want to enjoy driving. You can't go wrong with the tried and true 224/228 cam with either a 112 or 114 lsa. It might not sound that bad-ass, but it will be a great all around cam. A 112 lsa might give it a nice little lope, but you are not going to get an LS1 to have a rough idle without going with a huge cam.

I have an LS2 flywheel and LS7 clutch on my car. The set was around $550 for everything, and the LS7 clutch has been great so far. I don't know what you'll need to adapt the TKO 600 to the LS1, but you should be able to run mechanical or hydraulic clutch linkage on that tranny. You might want to hit up Classic Chevy 5-speed for better answers to that question.

Andy

[WS6]

For a cam, a 228/232 on a 112+4 LSA will be a great choice. Combine that with good heads and you could see 430+ hp at the wheels. More importantly, you'll have a broad power band. Go over to LS1tech and thumb through the dyno results forum. Don't narrow it down too much. Just type in 228/232 and see what pops up. Maybe even try 232/236 just for grins. Go smaller as well 224/228 or 228/228. What I want you to look at is not only the peak numbers, but look at how the graph changed from hopefully stock to modified. Also pay attention to how the graph changes from cam to cam. This will give you an idea of where power is made with the different size cams. Do not read what people say about how it idles and how it drives. This is very subjective. Pay attention to facts. If the person says it idles at 950 rpm, then that's a fact not a subjective opinion. Power is made in the heads anyway. Ported LS6 heads are a tremendous value. AFR 205s are better. As are Trick Flow 215s. For a budget build, ported LS6 and a 228/232 cam will make for a very fun car and it will sound very nice.

There is also a video forum for LS1tech. I believe it may be on a different site. See if you can find that. Then listen to the different cams at idle that way.

[WS6]

pilot bearing number from GM 12557583

[DarkoNova]

Thanks guys, I've decided to go with a 228/232 cam. I forget the heads used, but someone over at LS1tech used that cam and some newer heads and got around 440 hp at the wheels. There wasn't a graph so I don't know what the power curve is like, but it's gotta be better than the MS4. :razz:

Ok, so couple more questions. What are some good head gaskets for LS1's? If I do manage to find a good set of heads that won't break the bank, I want some good gaskets.

And what's the real deal with solid motor mounts? A lot of people here say they'll cause problems with the knock sensor, but over at LS1tech, everyone loves solid mounts. :confused:

Matt

[WS6]

solid mounts with vibrate the car, period. I wouldn't recommend them. Be careful as LS1tech is full of lemmings to a higher level it seems. There's nothing wrong with a good urethane motor mount. I like Prothane.

Head gaskets, I prefer GM. The gaskets and seals on the gen3/4 motors are fantastic. Cometics are not worth the price on a street car IMO. If you want to raise compression slightly, have the heads angle milled. Use GM exhaust gaskets as well even with headers. They are the best choice there too. Get 2004 Z06 LS6 head gaskets to insure you get the latest, greatest for the LS1.

The heads used in that 440 rwhp car are good and most likely over $2k. You won't feel the difference between 420-440 rwhp really. At those levels, traction will make more of a difference than power. You're going to like the 228/232.

[DarkoNova]

Speaking of compression, what's the stock compression on LS1's? I think it was 10.5:1, but I could be wrong.

So far it looks like the ported LS6 heads from Texas Speed seem to be the best bang for the buck. I'm looking at some AFR "mongoose" heads and they flow less than ported LS6 heads. :eek:

Matt

[merriman44]

comp was 11-0 if memory serves me. AFR makes some of the best heads for the ls on the market but you'll pay for them. They focus on small runners and increased port velocity. From what I read their heads make torque monsters and are great for the street (if you have that kind of money for heads).

[WS6]

flow rates are not everything Matt. Those LS6 heads have a 230-233 cc intake runner volume. The AFR 205s and 225s are 205cc and 225cc respectively. The aftermarket heads usually indicate the intake runner volume in the model heads. With that said, for a budget head the LS6 heads are great so grab them if you can. They will compliment the 228/232 cam a great deal.

Also, and this goes for everyone pulling the heads on your Gen 3 engine, put LS2 lifter trays in there. Supposedly the LS2 lifter trays are stronger. They do look different. I say this because I just tore down an 02 SS that I cammed last year. his lifter tray cracked and the lifter turned sideways on the cam. Took out the cam and the lifter. Replace the trays. They cost $30 for all four. I have never had this happen before and I did not pull the heads to do the cam. If you are pulling your heads, it's cheap insurance.

[DarkoNova]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm assuming I can get the tray(s) at a GM dealer?

Matt

[WS6]

yes. They will be able to get them no problem

[DarkoNova]

Sweet, thanks. Hopefully I can have some of the swap parts by this weekend.

Matt