4L80e and paddle shifter

[540' chevelle]

Well I finally made up my mind and went with the 4l80e.
Traded my old m22 and some cash for a TCI street fighter, 2500 stall converter, wiring harness with TCI controller.
the car is at the tranny shop getting it installed.

Now I'm thinking paddle shifter, from reading Twist Machine site all I need now is the paddle shifter.
Who has done it that can shed some light on the install.
I have a grant steering wheel so the universal unit right? is running the wiring down the column hard?
Any other info is appreciated.

[neki67]

There is no wiring down the column. The paddle shifter sends a signal to a receiver that's connected to the TCI controller. The receiver already has the right connector, so it's plug and play.

I'm sure Steve will jump in to answer your question concerning the steering wheel adapter.

[Steve Chryssos]

Hi,
You'll need a 10043 splined paddle shifter to match your column and a 10085 adapter for your steering wheel. The Shrifter installs onto your column wirelessly. Then connect the wireless receiver to a switched 12V source and plug it into your trans controller. That's it. We include lifetime tech support. Don't hesitate to call or email with questions. We just set up secure online ordering.
Thanks for choosing our products.
/Steve

[Fesler built]

I am doing two different systems right now and if you would like to know my thoughts you can contact me tomorrow. to much to type here but might be some good info for you.

[Steve Chryssos]

Better to post your knowledge and experience here, so that the entire community can benefit.

[540' chevelle]

After a couple of weeks dealing with this trans install and getting a run around from everybody on the kind of yolk that I needed with a machined area inside the shaft becouse there is a o-ring in there. I Finally get to the wiring and the used harness is trashed OK let me call TCI and order a new one not that I thought that they would help becouse when I called them on the yolk issue they told me that they do not rebuilt transmission like the one I was describing. After looking into it the guy on the phone says yes we do rebuilt some like that. Cool were do I get the yolk? He said "I DON'T KNOW" junk yard. Nice

Bought a new drive shaft and had the yolk machined.

Ok back on the phone with TCI need a 4l80e harness for you controller please. They said sorry they do not make it any more we have a new controller and we do not make a harness for the one you have. Well at least they knew this time that they could not help. How about a wiring diagram? I will make a new harness my self. Well look at your disk, I did and its a floppie drive don't have one of those any more, well the guy a TCI set me a zip drive that I got to look throught it to hopefully find what I need.

If anybody has a wiring diagram or a harness for this controller that they want to sell please call e-mail me I'm need it badly.Its a 377001
[email protected]

I called Twist Machine and they confirmed that the harnesses are not available they were more help full I asked if there was a new style harness that I can buy and adapt to my pluggs on the controller and am supposed to call them tomorrow to see if that is possible.

Man all I want is an Overdrive not an ulcer. Just writing this is making me dizzy. HaHHAHAHA Some day paddle shifter and overdrive.

Hope the controller works. Man now I will not sleep tonight. HAHAHAH

Will let you know how all this turns out. Overdrive or me in hospital.

[Steve Chryssos]

Hi,
That must be a really old unit if it came with a floppy disk. Go the the url below and download the link to the left. It's the one under the picture of the silver case with the yellow sticker.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Electronics/377000_VS_377500.asp

[MarkB]

I hate to see that you had such a problem finding a yoke. Many people do, however we keep the machined slip yokes ready to ship at all times. All of our 4L80-E packages come with one, to save everyone the headache. The problem is most 4L80-E transmissions had a bolt on style yoke and the o-ring was there to help seal fluid from leaking around the bolt, the slip yoke style did not have an o-ring on the shaft. I checked our old stock and we do not have any of the old style harnesses laying around sorry. Keep us in mind if you run across any other issues or problems, even if it isn't our transmission we will help ensure you get up and running. It will be worth the battle once you get to drive your car with the 4L80-E.

Thanks,
Mark
Bowler Performance Transmissions
www.bowlertransmissions.com

[MarkB]

Just a note for caution! Anyone installing a 1996 and newer 4L80-E Transmission with the rear cooler line fitting. Do not replace this fitting with a standard fitting. You will notice a small tube going into the case, this is a lube tube. Without it you will have no lube and burn up the planets. We have seen this many times here recently. Just want to save someone the headache and expense. If you need a standard 5/16 inverted flare fitting for that location in place of the push in style line just let us know. We have them available.

Mark
Bowler Performance Transmissions
www.bowlertransmissions.com

[tellyv]

how much do these paddle shifters cost and what will they work with?

[Fesler built]

This is what we are using, I do not have to have a shifter in the car at all, the paddle will do all the shifting up and down no shift lever needed. Makes a very cool look and everyone ask how I shift the Blazer

[540' chevelle]

Well after all the problems finding the old style harness I tried to order a new controller and harness. guess what TCI does not have a new style harness either so my parts guy at Murray's said hey let order a FAST controller and after looking at their web site it talked about the controler and how easy is the new harness and he tried to ask the tech help if that part number came with the harness they of courses did not know, the order line people did not know either so in need to get my car out of the trans shop we ordered it for Saturday delivery guess what NO HARNESS man what is wrong with this industry? Do they not know that with no harness you can't install this controller. Now Monday again we are on the phone trying to find this stupid harness for this new controller.
No harness for the old and no harness for the new.
Sound like they are not selling to many of these controllers. What a joke. Should of maybe went with a gear venders and my t400.

[Steve Chryssos]

First:
For anyone looking in on this thread--now or in the future--let me make it clear that 540 bought a USED controller along with a butchered harness. Also he did not buy it from Twist, Bowler, Fesler, or anyone else checking in on this thread. These circumstances are not normal. We wouldn't want everyone to get scared away from the many benefits of adapting modern electronic transmissions. Folks might find this thread in six months by way of a search, so it should be clear that your problems started with a used purchase from someone other than a qualified source.
Back to the situation at hand:
540,
We spoke on the phone last week. I was more than willing to help then and I still am willing to help. The old style (discontinued) TCI controller part number 377000 included a GM harness. The new style controller 377500 does not include a harness. The harness is listed separately under part number 377502. I know that both part numbers exist because I have one of each item in stock.

Combined, the price of these two items are close or equal to the cost of a Compushift unit which includes a harness available from Twist or Bowler. We also pre-calibrate the unit very close to your specific application in an effort to make the installation and setup as painless as possible. Given your challenges, a Compushift controller best matches your needs.

The best way to end the misery is by ordering the right controller from a technically qualified source. That expertise will prove invaluable during both the purchase phase as well as the installation/setup phase.

[Steve Chryssos]

This is what we are using, I do not have to have a shifter in the car at all, the paddle will do all the shifting up and down no shift lever needed. Makes a very cool look and everyone ask how I shift the Blazer

That is a Mastershift setup. By far, the best of the mechatronic solutions. The design has OE grade safety measures built in. And it can be used to run H-pattern manual transmissions. It's the only mechatronic solution that I recommend.

[540' chevelle]

MarkB thanks for you offer. Steve my parts guy at Murrays got back to me right after we spoke telling that he finally got some one at FAST and they gave him a pat number different than the one you gave me and he order it for tomorrow. I call FAST tech and they confirmed the number he gave me as a harness that would interact with my XFI. I asked them if it would hook up to my trans and the guy said yes.

Will let you know tomorrow when we receive it is it works out.

[Steve Chryssos]

Cool! Next hurdle. Pay particular attention to the TPS wiring and calibration. Your new TCU uses TPS angle to determine engine load so that it can supply appropriate line pressure. If the TPS calibration is wrong, so is the line pressure. If the TPS signal is nonexistent, then the trans thinks that the car is sitting at idle and provides minimum pressure. I know that you have a shop doing the work. Do not drive the car until you have personally confirmed that the TCU is reading TPS properly. TPS signal readout is present on the laptop display screen called "dashboard".

[540' chevelle]

Finally received the harness from FAST and it looks good no instructions
in the box or warnings like what Steve said above.
Does this new controller come with any calibrations I wonder or do you have to calibrate everything from scratch.
This is supposed to work with the FAST XFI. I picked up the harness late yesterday so I have not looked at it very well hopefully you do not need to tie into the FAST harness for the TPS.
WE will see what the trany guys say. I might just have to tow the car back home and do this myself, I just do not have the time right now
but if they fell they can do it will see.
Hopefully Paddle shifters soon.

[ty1295]

If you bought the new TCI controller, it is made my PCS www.transmissioncontroller.com (http://www.transmissioncontroller.com)

You will notice the TCI brand is red, PCS is blue. Same case/plug. PCS wiring schematic is on their site. http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/download/tcu/harness/4L60_65_70_80_85%201993%20and%20up.pdf From the best i can tell the TCI is just painted red, the software is made a bit simplier and some of the extra input/outputs on the PCS were removed. I suspect they are still in the computer though.

I have the PCS, installed 2 so far. I can honestly say the one in my truck has worked flawless so far.

The older TCI's I have seen go bad more than once though.

Bowler and Twist Machine are both great people to get service and parts from as they know what is going on with these and are not doing the research with you but already have done that.

Speaking of which I need to stop by and have Lunch with Mark again and bring my toy by.

[hotrdblder]

540, yes you will need to tie into the fast xfi tps sensor or add another tps sensor to get throttle angle.
way cleaner to tie into the tps sensor you already have then add another one, which is what carb'd guys have to do, it really shoul dbe easy its only 4 wires.

[Steve Chryssos]

Finally received the harness from FAST and it looks good no instructions
in the box or warnings like what Steve said above.
Does this new controller come with any calibrations I wonder or do you have to calibrate everything from scratch.
This is supposed to work with the FAST XFI. I picked up the harness late yesterday so I have not looked at it very well hopefully you do not need to tie into the FAST harness for the TPS.
WE will see what the trany guys say. I might just have to tow the car back home and do this myself, I just do not have the time right now
but if they fell they can do it will see.
Hopefully Paddle shifters soon.

Lemme know how you make out.

[Steve Chryssos]

If you bought the new TCI controller, it is made my PCS www.transmissioncontroller.com (http://www.transmissioncontroller.com)

You will notice the TCI brand is red, PCS is blue. Same case/plug. PCS wiring schematic is on their site. http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/download/tcu/harness/4L60_65_70_80_85%201993%20and%20up.pdf

All good advice. Unfortunately, there is no good schematic for the old style controller (377000) so if anyone looks to buy one used, make sure that the harness is 100% intact. I've had a couple of people try to call for help in this situation. Since many of the wires are the same color, once the harness has been butchered, there is no easy way to decipher the pin-out assignments.

[ty1295]

Yep the old unit is lacking in more ways, schematic being one of them.

Here is a partial schematic it might help someone. Is tailored specific to the syclone/typhoon interface though.

http://www.primegears.net/albums/album02/TCI_Syty_hookup.jpg

[Damn True]

What the heck is "mechatronic" shifting?

[Steve Chryssos]

Nice. The problem people are having is harnesses with cut connectors and missing labels. So the red TPS wire and the red manual shift wire, for example, are just sorta sitting there.

Seeing that schematic reminds me of how much I miss Myclone--even though I never met him in person.

[ty1295]

Yes, Myclone and myself would PM back and forth. We had a few inside jokes. Met him at bowling green in Sept. '06 even though I was around him before we really didn't know each other back in those days.

Got to give his wife a big hug last sept, and I have the "Myclone Most Innovative Mod" award in my living room.

Back on topic.

I do have a truck here that has a tci ecm. If there is a specific wire or something I can look at to help let me know.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yes, Myclone and myself would PM back and forth. We had a few inside jokes. Met him at bowling green in Sept. '06 even though I was around him before we really didn't know each other back in those days.

Got to give his wife a big hug last sept, and I have the "Myclone Most Innovative Mod" award in my living room.

Back on topic.

I do have a truck here that has a tci ecm. If there is a specific wire or something I can look at to help let me know.

540, you should take him up on that offer. He can trace wires back to the pinout assignments on the main plug to the TCU. That way you can label the harness. You have a new computer now, but properly labeling the harness will help you label each wire for the next guy.

[Damn True]

What is the difference between "manumatic" and "mechatronic" shifting?

[Steve Chryssos]

Mechatronic technology integrates mechanical systems with electronics, and computers. The Terminator is a great example: Levers, actuators, servos, linkages, switches, sensors, computers and an Austrian accent all working in unison to kick ass.
A more appropriate example is anti-lock brakes. A human can press or pump a brake lever, but a computer--with the help of wheel speed sensors--can pump those brakes more quickly and with a higher degree of predictability. For any mechatronic system, there is one or more final objectives. In the case of ABS, the objective is to prevent wheel lock-up.
Other examples of mechatronic systems range from simple devices such as throttle by wire to highly complex engineering solutions such as CNC machines. Examples of objectives include speed, precision, repeatability, safety, convenience, cost cutting--it's a long list.
With regards to transmissions, automatics and manuals can both serve as platforms for mechatronic systems application. Their final objectives are the same: Maximum power transfer (efficiency) through the application of safe, predictable, and fast gear changes as well as safe, predictable drivetrain coupling. And it's important to note that these objectives are relative to the human condition. The mechatronic system almost always hopes to apply objectives BETTER than a human.

So in that sense, either transmission system (clutch or converter, planetary or inline) can be considered an AUTOMATIC. In fact, the car salesman who sold me my DSG dual clutch equipped A3, refused to use the word manual and was afraid to use the word "clutch" in his sales pitch. It was weird. In a sense, there is no more automatic vs manual, because they're both automatic and they're both manual. A far more appropriate comparison would be clutch vs converter.

Traditional planetary/converter based transmissions lend themselves nicely to mechatronic technology. Long before computers or sensors were applied, these transmissions used servos and other related technology. It was simply a matter of replacing hydraulics with electronics in the form of solenoids and switches. Likewise, the fluid coupling is "forgiving" and therefore easy to "apply". Commercial technology likes to find the path of least resistance, so mechatronic automatics (sounds redundant, huh?) came first--and no one noticed or gave them credit because of the planetary gearset and fluid coupling.
A mechatronic manual (You can now see that the term is an oxymoron) is more complex. It is necessary to replace the movement of two human interventions: The arm and the left leg. Furthermore, the mechanical drivetrain coupling makes it necessary to precisely integrate those two movements with a third--the right foot. A dizzying array of sensors, levers, actuators, servos, processors, etc. are required to smoothly apply and release the clutch and change gears. BMW will abandon its SMG system. Users complain that the car jerks between gear changes. Release clutch-change gear-apply clutch--repeat. Guess what? The car experiences the same fore/aft movements with a traditional manual system applied by a human. In fact the human can never hope to achieve the same finesse or repeatability. But the user has false expectations. And those false expectations can be satisfied with a DSG dual clutch system, so BMW will head in that direction.

Some day ALL cars will probably use a DSG system. All will be mechatronic. All will be "automatic" and all will be "manual", so all will be manumatic.

[540' chevelle]

Well I droped off the harness at the trany shop and the disc. They call me that they could not open the disc something to do with their PC I'm goin to pick it up in the morning to see if I can figure out some of the wires they had questions on. But hopefully someone on here might know so I will ask.

1. main harness a plug labeled "manual shift" is this were you plug in the padle shifter?.
2. main harness a plug labeled "SCU".
3. main harness a plug labeled " Cam link"
4. a yellow wire wire labeled "Dyno"
5. Blue wire labeled "cal a/b"

I will have a discssion with them about the harness in the morning and then I will call FAST for suport hopefully the Chevelle will be on the road again soon.

Thank for your help.

[Steve Chryssos]

1. main harness a plug labeled "manual shift" is this were you plug in the padle shifter?. CORRECT
2. main harness a plug labeled "SCU". SPEEDO CORRECTION UNIT. You may or may not need this--probably not. Call me.
3. main harness a plug labeled " Cam link" This is not in the standard TCU harness. Must be FAST specific.
4. a yellow wire wire labeled "Dyno" Same as #3
5. Blue wire labeled "cal a/b" This lets you switch between two different calibrations i.e. soft/agressive at the flip of a switch. Not necessary, but interesting.

As for the disc, bring your laptop down to the shop. That will ensure that the calibration backup is on your computer, not theirs.
Mandatory connections for your application:
-Main harness (large round case plug, TOSS tailshaft speed, TISS converter speed)
-TPS (reads engine load)
-RPM (sets WOT)
-Speedo Output (An uncalibrated speedo can confuse the TCU. Leave this disconnected for now) Route this wire for easy under dash access.
-Manual Shift (Route this plug for easy access later when you get the paddle shifter. Manual Shift has no affect on trans calibration or function. It is not necessary for automatic operation. Don't worry about it for now.)

Unless the FAST harness has special requirements, the connections described above are the only connections that you NEED to run the transmission.

[540' chevelle]

Well took off from work to hopefully get the car going my trany shop got all the wires installed but two the one that goes on the brake light and the cam link.

The brake light issue was that we were trying to figure out what the instructions said about installing the wire on the "NC" connection at the brake light switch. Does that mean that the wire is going to see power all the time and then remove it, you would think "NC" normaly closed connection should be see power and then open and loose it. If it was the over way normaly open "NO" you would not have power and when the switch closed you would. Well I will call FAST tech and ask the question?

Oh we can't find the cam link wires ask them about that aswell.
Cool, I got on the phone and asked the question about the brake light switch and waited and waited and I called back and asked again and waited and waited.

One of those times I asked also about the cam link connection and was told oh you need the "cam retrofit kit" WHAT! was that you said. Yes a cam retrofit kit is needed to hook up the FAST XFI and the FAST trans controller then I was put back on hold.

While on hold I call my guy at Murrays and said "man!" I need a cam retrofit kit so the FAST XFI and the FAST trans controller can be hooked up together.Are you kidding me? he said.

I called and asked to buy the FAST controller so that it would communicated with the XFI and no one said you needed a 301412 kit. It will have to be ordered tomorrow next day air so I can have it by Thursday.

Maybe then I will pick up the phone at the tranny shop to see if it's still on hold while they figured out my question about the brake switch.

Man I'm reading this back to make sure it sounds Ok and, well this sound crazy.

Should the people that take the orders know that a special kit is needed to make the two FAST items talk to each other. They say all you have to do is to hook them up sounds easy, hey hook them up no problem.

But sir you will need our retrofit kit that is not part of any of our harness. Oh ok can you please add that to my order thanks.

That they should KNOW and say, right?

[cheapthrillz]

It sounds like you are struggling through this process. That sucks that they are giving you the runaround... But once it is driving, I'm sure you'll be pleased. You gotta love the wonderful adventures with cars. Good Luck man!

[Steve Chryssos]

The brake light wires are not used. You should see two sets of brake light switches--one male/one female. Plug them into each other. The brake light switch is designed to unlock the converter as soon as you put your foot on the brake pedal. This is unnecessary and even undesirable for a pro-touring application. Unnecessary because the computer will use vehicle speed to determine when to unlock the converter. Undesirable because you want that converter locked up when diving into a turn. Tapping on the brake would delete that benefit.

I can see NO REASON why the TCU and XFI should communicate with each other. I'm sure they have some advanced benefits, but (as stated above) all that you need is:
-TPS
-RPM
-Speedo Output
-Main Harness (case plug, tailshaft speed, converter speed)
-Manual Shift.
That's it. The TCU will use TPS to determine engine load. RPM is only really used to set WOT shift points. The speedo wire is convenient way way to send signal to your speedometer and Manual Shift sends a signal that tells the computer to override the part throttle shift tables and wait for an input from you. Installation is easy. Your vendors are overcomplicating an otherwise straightforward process.

The rest of these advanced features are nice, but they amount to re-inventing the wheel.

I sell Compushift now. :candle:

[540' chevelle]

Well finally got the can link kit looked like a preaty straight foward install. Two wires that need to be installed on the blue connector on the FAST XFI C-25 and C-26 simple and this was suposed to sink both the XFI and the FAST/TCI controller that way the TPS, MAP and RPM would be used by both.

After installing it and going through the instalation I had to call FAST on some questions and they guy told me "WE do not support that controller you got to call TCI for tech" Well that is nice why do you sell it then if you are not going to suport it?. Back on the phone with TCI they help with the initial set up but I noticed at the bottom of the screen no TSP,RPM and Map all zero.
Back on the phone with TCI. Well what TPS are you using? You need a part # sososos hey wait I have a XFI with cam link to get the TPS. That was a shocker "What""I dont know have to look into it maybe monday or tuesday"

Call Fast and spoke to Max over there and he told me that you have to enable can link and can TCI in order to get that function to work.
OK back on the FAST and maid the selections saved every thing and switch back to the FAST/TCI controller and still no input.

Back on the phone with Max and he asked asked how the conection on the plug was made and that it need to be on the 3rd and 4th pin location on the blue plug looking at it with the white locking bar on the bottom and the release tab on top.
The last row of wires right to left the last one is C-23 so the 3rd and 4th would be the right ones.

Took it all a part and check every thing and it looked ok but when I called back could not get any one on the Phone.

I guess I will be back on he phone with them on Monday. Has any one gone through this can link install? Is he pin loocation correct?

Thanks.

[540' chevelle]

In going back over what I did on Friday and looking at the FAST info on the net.

I plugged both can links coming out of the trans controller with the two coming out of the fast, should I have only plugged one and left the other with a resistor.

The web site does not tell you but the drawing looks that way.

Anybody done one?

[hotrdblder]

sorry to hear your troubles, i have dealt with pcs and while it has as many options as you can imagine, there are almost too many for a hot rod, meaning lots of scratching head when wiring,tuning, diagnosing problems, plus lack customer support and people that have a good knowledge of it.
this weekend i installed a compu shift controller with display, and it was amazing. 2 plugs on the 4l80e, run wires into car, run tps with connector to carb, mount tps on carb(if not fuel injected) mouting tps on carb was so simple it scared me, killer mountiing design that anyone can figure out, great pictures and instruction book, leaving you with few questions, but after doing a pcs i thought there had to be more to it. well theres not, hook likage for tps to throttle linkage, hit tps calibration button on controller, open throttle wot, back to idle, red light on controller goes from flashing to solid, once solid, hold throttle wot for 5 seconds, if light stays solid, your done, start car and go drive, unreal simple.
controller has built in scanning, so if there is an issue it tells you, and the display for an extra few hundred and is well worth it as you can change tuning in seconds, firmer shifting, over 90% throttle angle tranny will shift at specified rpm, which should be 2-400 hundred below red line, among about 15 other parameters, if i do any other electronic tranny installs i am only using the compu shift, period, i took out a pcs system, installed a coompushift in 2 hrs and test drove.

[kruisecontrol]

do you still have that old tci computer with the bad wiring?

[540' chevelle]

Little up date.
Re did the wiring with just one can link from the FAST XFI and the one from the TCI/FAST hooked up and the other two ends with the resistors and finally I'm reading TPS,MAP and RPM with the trans controller.
Could not take it for a ride the car is not running right but soon.

I you need the old trans controller send me a e-mail [email protected]

[kruisecontrol]

email sent

[Modo Innovations]

What a great example of knowledge, support and willing to help others. Steve is awesome. :cheers: Great products too.