Anybody know anything about handguns? [Archive]

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cheapthrillz

02-23-2008, 12:50 PM

rjsjea

02-23-2008, 01:09 PM

Cant go wrong with a Glock......ultra reliable and almost fool-proof. Super easy to clean and take apart. I carry one nearly everyday. First tho....learn how to use and handle it before carrying it. Also look into buying a Kahr....similar to Glock but slimmer in design

TonyL

02-23-2008, 01:28 PM

Most good gun shops will set you up with a test firing session to see what gun suits you best.

The glock is becoming the handgun of choice because it's the toyota guns. They're everywhere, reliable, and easy to use and maintain.

use it enough that it becomes second nature to fire it. Go often to the range. You dont want to fumbling around with a gun when you need one.

cheapthrillz

02-23-2008, 02:50 PM

I have a close family friend that is a narcotics officer and he can get great deals on police issue firearms. He said he can get a NEW glock 19/23/32 for around $350. That is almost half as much as buying from a dealer. I look forward to shooting many rounds and being proficient in using the gun. I want a gun that can be concealed (even if it isn't the most comfortable). Many people conceal .38's and .380's, but I want something with a little more stopping power.

Are there any name gun chains that will let you test fire all of these guns? Do they do that in house or do you go to a range?

chicane67

02-23-2008, 03:53 PM

Remember people... its only an opinion.

Now why on earth would you want a Toyota when you could have an LS7 powered Corvette ?? It would be in your best interest to seriously consider and look into the 1911. First off, everyone makes parts for them, its the most proven sidearm on the planet and it is the number one choice of every SOF operator. Not to mention its is also available in a 'compact'. Nearly all reputable manufacturers have a product that is of the 1911 design. ParaOrdinance, Kimber, Wilson, Springfield, Smith, Colt, Caspian and many many others. Browning designed this one right... and the players in the industry know it. Thin, flat and easy to conseal... and knock down power.

Here is a link to your education on the 1911: http://m1911.org/

Glock. Now that is funny. Overpriced (just like Toyota), no manual safeties and has been under government scrutiny for over a decade, just for that reason alone. Don't get me wrong, they are accurate and easy to shoot... but its combat Tupperware. Anyone that truly knows concealed carry sidearms should agree... because if you don't, you are only lying to yourself. Every Glock made costs $92.74... no matter what model and what options. I know a few US Gov 'expert witness' that are firearms manufacturers that have spent years on the stand explaining Glocks short commings ever since their introduction to the market. Passive safeties... just dont protect you and/or anyone else. That is the larger reason that the US Gov ditched them and went back to SIG Sauer. Gee... ever wonder about the barrage of Police shootings in the past couple of years ?? And yes... they are carrying a sidearm with 100% passive safeties.

But first of all, to help you educate yourself on personal protection... lets talk caliber. If you plan on utilizing this for personal safety, or any other means for that matter, don't own anything that starts with a caliber less than .4x. The bigger the caliber, the bigger the hole and the better chance that it will take your target off of their feet... permanently. 9mm are great plinker's but do not have the stopping power required for self defense. So start looking at .40 and larger. Take it from some of us in the business that carry for a living.

Now lets talk capacity. Yeah yeah yeah... 'My 9mm holds 16 cartridges. I dont have to reload as much'. Yeah. Whatever... so does my PARAOrd P14 1911 .45ACP. Besides that, one carefully aimed and well placed shot is all you need to stop ANYONE from doing you and/or anyone else any harm. Only gang members and the inexperienced will need more than two to three pulls of the trigger in self defence. You want shoot a whole bunch and not cost a-lot... get a 10-22 with a 250 cartridge magazine.

Most indoor (and some outdoor) ranges will have a variety of makes and models... and calibers to rent and shoot. But, it may cost a few bucks to run thu enough of them to find something that fits your hand and that you are comfortable with. AND ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY SPENT. You need to find something that fits your hand, your application and your budget.

From your listed choices... the XD or the S&W. But you did not mention if you wanted something out of the box or if you wanted something you can tune up.

You want something "out of the box"... look into SIG Sauer. The 220 (http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=6&productid=94) .45 or 229 (http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=63) .40 are probably the best out of the box sidearms made.

Also take a look at carry sits for your states specific laws. These sites normally are kept up to date on all laws and issues related to the subject: http://www.opencarry.org/ and http://www.usacarry.com/

My everyday 'not at work' carry (even in Las Vegas summer heat with shorts and t-shirt and flip flops)... a Trident Percision Machine, Springfield Officers Compact:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_0105Small1-1.jpg

megaladon6

02-23-2008, 03:59 PM

i'm no expert but, i really don't like the stopping power of the 9mm. one of my old instructors (marine major) always said "you can put a clip from a beretta into a guys chest and he wont go down, shoot him once in the thumb with a (1911) .45 and he'll go back ten feet" slight exagerration but the heavier .40, .45 and 10mm do a much better job than the 9mm.
i prefer springfield SIG and glock

chicane67

02-23-2008, 04:00 PM

If he used the term "clip"... we was never in the MARINE Corps. lol

Oh wait... you said "Major". Them officers were never the sharpest tools...

megaladon6

02-23-2008, 04:09 PM

dipren443

02-23-2008, 04:15 PM

I can add another vote for a 1911 style pistol. I love mine. As a matter of fact, I haven't been to the range in some time. I think its time to go.

Anyhow, if Glock's are like the Toyota of handguns, then the 1911 is like a Sherman tank. It was the military's sidearm up until the mid to late 80's. Many SWAT teams (Since they generally have more flexibility in what they can carry) still prefer the 1911's dead reckoning accuracy and use it over department mandated Double Action pistols.

And as Chicane mentioned above, parts for the 1911 are everywhere.

chicane67

02-23-2008, 04:20 PM

i don't know that i quoted him perfectly, it may have been "you can put all 16? rounds" or something like that. besides he retired when they still had a real pistol, the 1911. by the way, he was a mustang

LOL. Yeah... if he's a Stang... it was a mis-quote. You dont mess with Mustangs without pissing off every enlisted guy within sight. :worship:

Restomod

02-23-2008, 04:51 PM

I have never had a bad experiance with a Glock ,nor heard of any "government scrutiny" of them..... I would imagine that the Gov went with anouther supplier beacuse the bid was CHEAPER. NOT saying SIG's are cheap guns,they are not they to are among the best. I would buy anouther Glock in sec. BUT a 1911 style (preferabley a double stack) would be right there in the running. Also full size 1911 is just to big to carry everyday in my .02.

dipren443

02-23-2008, 04:59 PM

I have to agree, a full size 1911 is not a viable option for a concealed weapon. Mine is a Combat Commander and is a fair amount smaller than a full frame 1911. I would think it the largest I would ever consider carrying.

There are also many compact 1911's available though.

Samckitt

02-23-2008, 05:01 PM

I have to agree with Chicane67..... Haven't got mine yet, but I am getting a Springfield .45 1911.

dipren443

02-23-2008, 05:03 PM

BUT a 1911 style (preferably a double stack) would be right there in the running.

Take this recommendation with caution. If you have smaller hands, you may find a double stack 45 ACP pistol a bit uncomfortable to handle. Otherwise, the extra capacity is a major plus.

The Rook

02-23-2008, 05:14 PM

I picked up the Beretta PX4 Storm in 40 Cal in December and ABSOLUTELY love it! I've run about 400-500 rounds throught it already. It is an excelletn gun. It's been said but I'll say it again..If you are new to guns consider buying one with an external safety! If I hear one more gun store worker tell me "the only safety you need is right here" holding up there finger......The last time one told me that he was showing me a Glock, so I spun it around on the counter until the barrel faced me, used my thumb to pull the trigger while the rest if my hand was on the back. I know it's an unlikely scenario, but when reaching into your nightstand, startled inthe dark, it could happen.

Tom Welch

02-23-2008, 05:26 PM

Speaking as a veteran, I also recommend the 1911 style automatic in a single stack chambered for .45 caliber, I dont recommend any other based on my personal experience unless you want a magnum cartridge. In the event that you do find yourself in a situation where you need to decide whether or not to shoot someone, wondering if the bullet you shoot will do anything to them will hurt you, not them. As stated in previous posts the .45 is among the best at transferring energy to the target and literally knocking the target's **** in the dirt. A single stack provides enough capacity to kill 7 people, how many do you need to shoot anyway? My specific recommendation is as follows; 1911a1, throated for hollow point ammo. 230 grain jacketed hollow point, with a +p+ load of powder. In the unlikely event that you shoot someone with this load, they will do a couple of back flips and have a hole in them as big as your fist. That should end it.

mpozzi

02-23-2008, 05:29 PM

Sig-Sauer ... best handgun for the money. I've got two (9mm and .380) and love them. Have a .40 Glock and it's also a great firearm.

Most stores that sell firearms will also rent them. Before the purchase, you never want to just hold and handle a firearm without actually taking aim and pulling the trigger with the same ammunition you'll be using. Guns are like shoes as when they fit right, you're happy. You'd never buy a pair of shoes without trying them on and walking around for a few minutes. Same with a handgun.

If you plan to buy a firearm, let the store know this and they'll assist you with a good selection.

My favorite firearm is my Para-Ordnance P14-45.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

megaladon6

02-23-2008, 06:05 PM

how picky are the glocks about ammo? i remember hearing that they (and other brands) only accepted one specific round.

GPI

02-23-2008, 06:11 PM

Kimber Custom 1911 is what I have, Love it! 1911 is the way to go.

rjsjea

02-23-2008, 06:16 PM

how picky are the glocks about ammo? i remember hearing that they (and other brands) only accepted one specific round.

Glock will fire any ammo that others will. Just about every major police agency issues a Glock to its officers..........several reasons for this. A 1911 is a good gun also

chicane67

02-23-2008, 06:45 PM

Here are just a couple excerpts from another site on this very same discussion, of and about Glock.

From a cop in Chicago:

"We get a 9mm Beretta issued, , however you can purchase a larger caliber sidearm if you want. Ive only been on the job for 10 months, but im already looking into a .45 after the stories ive heard. I also carry a snub .38 when im off duty. who loves ya baby. I posted this article below cause it reminded me of a video I saw in which a undercover inner city cop explains to a bunch of students why the Glock is the weapon of choice for 50 cent, he then proceeds to shoot himself in the foot. priceless. The video is all over the internet just google "cop shoots himself in foot" and your good to go.

The Glock handgun has a documented history of going off unexpectedly wounding the person carrying it and sometimes even killing innocent bystanders. So why do private owners and US law enforcement love it so?

Glocks have a nasty reputation for accidental firing and "over-firing." The gun has figured in many of the recent mass shootings in the US, giving the liberal media its much sought after anti-gun information and the company itself, along with 14 other gun manufacturers, is being sued by several US cities that hope to recoup losses from gun violence. Yet for such a troubled gun, it remains enormously popular among civilians and peace officers. The Glock 9mm and .40- and .45-caliber pistols are the guns of choice among America's law enforcement agencies; 65 percent of US law enforcement officers have Glocks in their holsters. That is by design: The company's CEO told reporter for the US News and World Report in 1995 that targeting US police first was part of an orchestrated plan to gradually move into the civilian market. The Violence Policy Center has called Glock's marketing to US police "hyperagressive" and "excessive," especially because of the dubious trade-in deals the company offers: Cops can often trade in their old sidearms and any guns they've seized from criminals in exchange for new Glocks. Glock, in turn, sells the trade-ins on the civilian market.

In 1988, the FBI predicted that the Glock's sensitive trigger and lack of external safeties would "inevitably ... lead to an unintentional shot at the worst moment." Indeed, 11 years later, the Washington DC Police Department alone had had 120 accidental firings, 19 officers had wounded themselves or others with Glocks, and the district had paid $1.4 million in damages from resulting lawsuits related to Glock accidents. In one case, an officer shot and killed an unarmed teen at a DC roadblock. Another officer accidentally shot and killed an unarmed motorist during a routine traffic stop. One DC cop accidentally shot his own roommate.

The Louisville, Ky. Police Department adopted the Glock just last year. Within six months, five Louisville police guns fired accidentally. One bullet hit a truck. Another officer's gun fired while he was leaning over to tie his shoelaces inside the police station and the even was clearly captured on a surveillance camera and used by the officer in court. After the third misfire, Louisville police rushed to defend their new Glocks, declaring the gun not guilty in the third incident -- the officer's gun went off accidentally as he was attacked by a man who had fled a routine traffic stop. Rather than bagging the gun, the department implemented new training in gun safety. Several more accidents followed almost immediately, the fifth an errant bullet accidentally wounding an officer's son.

In New York City, where 70 percent of the police force uses Glocks, the problem is not so much accidental shootings (although eight officers have accidentally wounded themselves), but overkill. According to a study by the FBI, New York City police officers armed with Glocks fired an average of 4.8 rounds in gunfights while those with revolvers fired 2.4 in 1994. Even after 100 bullets were fired in stopping a robbery in the Bronx in 1995, New York City police officials briefly investigated "overfiring" of the Glock but decided to keep it anyway.

Even the FBI, despite its earlier dark forecasts on the Glock, adopted it as a standard-issue pistol in 1998. The Media confronted the agency about the 1988 report panning the Glock. In response, FBI Firearms Training Unit Chief Wade Jackson, Jr. (from whose division the 1988 report originated) wrote in impeccable bureaucratese: "What may have been mentioned at one point in time, given a lapse of more than 10 years, may no longer be accurate in statements or conclusions drawn which are not supported by empirical facts as exist presently."
He continued, "The Glock pistol, in the FBI's experience, has demonstrated safe and effective performance when accompanied by proper training, correct usage, care, and maintenance habits."
While police departments hasten to defend the gun after every misspent bullet, Josh Horowitz of the Firearms Litigation Clearinghouse says the Glock has been the subject of more lawsuits for accidental deaths than any other gun he's tracked in the past 10 years.
Horowitz cites the absence of an external safety, the gun's "light and short trigger pull" and the fact that it will fire even with the magazine removed as the combination that makes the Glock an unnecessarily hazardous gun.
"The Glock is always on," says Horowitz, referring to the absence of an external safety. "It increases the already great risk that someone is going to be injured when there's a gun around."

So why the civilian and police loyalty to such a seemingly flawed, unpredictable, and embattled sidearm?

The results have been unfortunate, according to police reports and internal department records examined by The Washington Post.
In the 10 years since D.C. police adopted the Glock 9mm to combat the growing firepower of drug dealers, there have been more than 120 accidental discharges of the handgun. Police officers have killed at least one citizen they didn't intend to kill and have wounded at least nine citizens they didn't intend to wound. Nineteen officers have shot themselves or other officers accidentally. At least eight victims or surviving relatives have sued the District alleging injuries from accidental discharges.

In an extraordinary sequence over the last six months, the District has settled three lawsuits for more than $1.4 million. The District admitted no wrongdoing in the suits, but the cases highlight the chronic neglect of Glock training by the D.C. police.

Last month, the District paid $250,000 to settle a case brought by the family of an unarmed teenager shot and killed at a traffic roadblock in 1996. The family's attorney argued that the officer's gun had discharged accidentally.

In August, the District paid $375,000 to settle another case in which a D.C. officer accidentally shot and killed an unarmed driver at a traffic stop in 1994.

In June, the District paid almost $800,000 to settle a case from 1994, when a D.C. officer accidentally shot his roommate.

The string of accidental shootings by D.C. officers came amid 10 years of warnings from firearm experts about the Glock's light trigger and propensity to fire an unintentional shot when handled incorrectly. Such a sensitive gun was designed for highly trained users.

D.C. police officials repeatedly studied the phenomenon of accidental discharges, invariably concluding that there was no fundamental problem with the Glock itself -- as long as users were properly and continuously trained. Officials chose not to modify the Glock trigger, as New York City police did in 1990, to require a more forceful tug to fire the gun.

But in 1994, D.C. police recorded more accidental discharges than the Chicago and Los Angeles forces combined, two far bigger departments, according to discharge records from the departments. Last year, the accident rate for D.C. police was 50 percent greater than that of Chicago and Los Angeles police, which issue firearms other than Glocks.

Former D.C. police chief Larry D. Soulsby told The Post recently that he had planned to have the department switch from the Glock to another pistol before his retirement last November. Safety, Soulsby said, was "absolutely" a major factor in his thinking! In the past, the police union had pressed for a change of service weapon, Soulsby and former union officials said.

The Glock semiautomatic is, by all accounts, a 21st-century gun. Made of steel and plastic, the Glock 17 model carried by D.C. police is lightweight but powerful, able to deliver 18 bullets in nine seconds. It is sturdy, requires little maintenance and is very easy to shoot.

Unlike many semiautomatics, the Glock has no external manual safety. The pistol carried by D.C. police uses a five- to six-pound trigger pull -- half the pull of most other semiautomatics for their first shot. The features allow a shooter to fire quickly in dire circumstances when getting off the first shot is critical. Glock's pride in its design and precision is reflected in the company's motto: "Glock Perfection."

The Glock's unique features made the gun attractive to D.C. police officials when slayings in the District soared in the late 1980s. The D.C. department liked the lack of an external manual safety, calling that "a paramount consideration" in selecting the Glock, according to the department's Firearms Training Manual. Officers accustomed to firing revolvers that lacked an external safety -- which included the entire D.C. force -- could more easily switch to the Glock than to a pistol that required them to learn how to disengage the safety before shooting, the department reasoned.
Department officials knew that diligent training would be crucial to ensure a safe transition from revolvers to semiautomatics.

In February 1988, the departmental committee studying the handgun issue noted that the revolver was safer "for the inexperienced shooter" and that "the accidental discharge potential is greater for the Glock semiautomatic." But the committee predicted that "proper, continuous training and clearly defined departmental policy" for the semiautomatic "should negate this factor."

In December 1988, the department made a surprise announcement that it was switching to the Glock. Police officials were so taken with the gun's merits that they got the District to approve an emergency procurement without competing bids. "Failure to procure these weapons on an emergency basis could result in needless injury to police officers and the public," city procurement official noted of the department's request.
The District paid just over $1 million for 4,300 Glocks.

The decision was immediately controversial. Dissenting voices were beginning to be heard about "Glock Perfection." Perhaps the most significant criticism came from the FBI. The FBI Academy's firearms training unit tested various semiautomatic handguns and in a 1988 report gave the Glock extremely low marks for safety. The report cited the weapon's "high potential for unintentional shots."

And most recently a similar report by the BATF said the Glock failed many safety tests during its evaluation of the handgun one being its unwanted ability to go off after being thrown; a test they called the Frisbee test.

Unintentional shots would turn out to be a disquieting byproduct of Glock's unique design, according to many experts and to lawsuits filed against Glock in the last decade. Even though the Glock does not have an external manual safety, it heralds the existence of three “internal safeties” intended to prevent the gun from discharging if dropped or jostled.

A unique feature of the Glock is that a shooter disengages all three safeties at once by pulling the trigger.

So, do you really call this a saftey ??

Almost immediately after D.C. police adopted the Glock, unintentional discharges increased sharply.
The first accident occurred in February 1989 -- less than a month before the guns reached officers on the street. Officer Adam K. Schutz was helping to test and clean the first shipment of guns when he shot himself in the fingers.

Nine months later, the 2-year-old daughter of a D.C. police officer died after accidentally shooting herself in the head with her father's pistol in their Northwest Washington house.
By October 1989, the department had experienced 13 unintentional discharges, double the rate of 1988, the last year with revolvers, according to an internal police memo. Then Assistant Chief Max Krupo noted in the memo to the chief that such problems were to be expected in departments switching to semiautomatics. Krupo suggested that increasing the five-pound trigger pressure to eight pounds "would be satisfactory." But after studying the issue, Krupo decided that a five-pound pull was just as safe as an eight-pound one.

In the years after the department's 1990 report on Glock accidents, unintentional shootings continued to mount.
In October 1990, Officer Edward Wise fired accidentally and grazed a man's head during an undercover drug operation at a Southeast Washington housing complex, according to police and court documents. Wise said he had been struggling with the man, Barry Braxton, who was unarmed. Braxton sued and collected a $55,000 settlement from the District.

In May 1991, an officer accidentally shot Kenneth McSwain, 18, in the back when the officer slipped while serving a search warrant in Northeast Washington, court and police documents show. McSwain, who was unarmed and was not charged with any crime, collected a $42,000 settlement.

In August 1991, an officer accidentally shot Stephen Wills in the chest during a drug bust in Southeast Washington, according to court and police documents. Wills, who was unarmed and was not charged with any crime, collected a $40,000 settlement.

Four officers were wounded with their own guns in 1992. Over and over, officers fired unintentional rounds in the locker rooms at their district stations, or at home while cleaning or unloading their guns, according to police reports.
Officers are told during training to avoid such accidents by being attentive to the Glock's unique, simplified design.

In March 1993, Officer Lakisha Poge fired a round through her bed while unloading a Glock in her apartment, a police report states. The bullet went through the floor and hit Glowdean Catching in the apartment below. Catching, who was wounded in both legs has a suit pending against the District. Poge, who has left the department, could not be reached for comment.

"I submitted reports through channels and said, 'You have problems with this gun,' " former homicide branch chief William O. Ritchie, who chaired the department's Use of Service Weapon Review Board in 1993, said in an interview. "I talked to the union and said, 'There is a hazard here.' "

In January 1994, homicide detective Jeffrey Mayberry shot Officer James Dukes in the stomach at police headquarters. "I hear a loud bang and Dukes is slowly falling to the floor," Detective Joseph Fox, Mayberry's partner, said in a deposition. "Jeff jumps up and says, 'Dukes, I didn't mean to do it, I didn't mean to do it.' "

Four days after Dukes was shot, Officer Juan Martinez Jr. accidentally shot his roommate, Frederick Broomfield, in the groin while awaiting dinner in their apartment, according to police and court records.
Martinez was unloading his Glock in his bedroom when Broomfield came in and asked Martinez how he wanted his chicken cooked. The gun abruptly went off.

Broomfield, who nearly bled to death after the bullet pierced an artery in his groin, sued the District and Glock Inc. His attorneys compiled a voluminous case in D.C. Superior Court, marshaling gun experts who gave statements about the alleged dangers of the Glock and the deficiencies of the District's training.
In June, the District settled the case by paying Broomfield $797,500. Glock also settled, but a lawyer for Glock declined to disclose the amount. In court papers, Glock denied that its gun was dangerous or defective.

By 1997, the safety issue had turned some members of the D.C. police union against the Glock, according to Robertson, the former union official. Several officials wanted to switch to the Sig Sauer, a more expensive gun with a heavier trigger pull.

Currently many police departments across the US are switching from the Glock too much safer handguns such as the Sig Sauer and the Heckler and Koch citing the rise in accidental discharges. But the Glocks have several other problems that could be classified as safety issues.

The gun exhibits a tendency to jam if not properly held; a phenomenon Glock calls “Limp Wristing”. This is somewhat of a common occurrence with the Glock handgun but one, which is rarely if ever seen with other handguns.
Most jams occur when a short round is encountered or some internal component fails, but the Glock exhibits this tendency at random and it will vary from shooter to shooter a very uncomfortable dilemma to have if you use your firearm for self-defense or duty.

Another problem with the Glock had to do with its failing chambers when used with high pressure ammunition, ammo carried by most police while on duty and favored by civilians for self defense. This problem has occurred mainly in a .40 caliber version of the Glock, but nonetheless must still be considered in the equation as we evaluate the safety of this handgun.

All in all the Glock handgun has the most documented cases of accidental discharge and safety related failures of any handgun currently in law enforcement use to date. This, Glock admits does not include those accidental discharges by private owners that go unreported and failures of key components. Some weapons designers summation of the handgun is that it is very dangerous for all shooters, from the highly trained police officer in a tense situation to the ill trained home owner awaken at 3:00AM by the sound of an intruder.

In short the deficiency of a real safety, second-rate quality and the inherent design flaws of the gun make this a poor choice for anyone looking to purchase a handgun.

Project69

02-23-2008, 07:04 PM

^^^ The main idea behind the Glocks no external safties is to get an officer to not think about any safeties to deactivate when a stressful situation occurs.

yes the design isnt the best for all purpose use, but it has saved my life, and other officers life countless times, due to point and shoot method without having to find a saftey switch.

cheapthrillz

02-23-2008, 07:06 PM

I understand that the 1911 is one of the best auto handguns ever made, and I see why they have a great following. I have always loved the look and feel of these guns (had a 1911 pellet gun), but I think that these handguns are out of my price range. I was looking to spend about $300-$500 and I dont want a USED gun.

I am 6'2" 165 lb and can palm a basketball very easily (aka big hands). So sub-compacts and small carry guns dont fit my hands very well. Thats why I was looking at the compact glocks/xd/m&p/sr9. I'm not sure about the avg price difference between ammunitions. I would think that the bigger the caliber, the more it cost, so I want to keep cost down alot because I plan on shooting the gun alot.

Thanks for all of you help so far. Especially for saying that the ranges rent guns. I will have to go and shoot a few times and see which one I really like.

Please keep the responses coming. I enjoy hearing everybody's opinions on the handguns.

Project69

02-23-2008, 07:11 PM

MrQuick

02-23-2008, 07:16 PM

WTF Tommy, no pictures??? LOL

Glocks or 9mm's are fun for target practice but 40's are good for all around TP and HD. My dad says Glocks are for thugs that can't shoot so you need more bullets. j/k
I love 45's myself and i'd recommend them. I've owned my Springfield for 11 years and love it. Recently picked up an FNH 40 and it is perfect. Great pull and a great all around gun for under $550.

cheapthrillz

02-23-2008, 07:16 PM

I think magnum research is out of my price range too

rjsjea

02-23-2008, 07:18 PM

I am not gonna argue for or against the Glock.......1,100 people I work with carry one at work daily. We havent had a reported AD (accidental discharge) in a couple years, and nobody has been injured by an AD, that I can remember (7yrs)

Whatever you get practice with it and keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you make the decision to use it, and be aware of your background if you have to use it.

MrQuick

02-23-2008, 07:26 PM

Ive shot better with this gun then the Glock issued by the county. To bad were not allowed to qualify with a .50

You might like it. Magnum Research Desert Eagle Mark XIX 6" barrel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

the Eagle is cool, spits out a nice 4" flame to boot. But if it doesn't include the kick stand don't buy it. haa haa

megaladon6

02-23-2008, 07:27 PM

1969CamaroRS

02-23-2008, 07:37 PM

Anyone who talks about Glocks going off by themselves or misfiring really doesn't understand Glock's safe fire system. In a properly maintained Glock it is impossible for the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled (includes dropping the gun onto a hard surface while loaded):
http://www.f-r-i.com/glock/misc/overview.htm#safeties

Keep in mind I really like Glock's and 1911s (I own both) but it is silly to keep trying to portray Glocks as having all sorts of problems that the "Government" is investigating. :attn:

Simple matter is if they had all these problems most police departments would not be using them. Anything that is used as widely as a Glock pistol will have its share of lawsuits, it is a red herring to believe that somehow that is indicative of "problems" without some sort of evidence of actual systemic malfunction. Any product in use has lawsuits, the more the product is used the more lawsuits. It is more akin to arguing which is better Ford or Chevy, and both camps site articles showing how the other is the devil.

Bottom line find a local pistol range that rents pistols and try out as many as you can until you find what you like, then go with that. It is much more important that the gun you chose feels comfortable to you. Then once you make a purchase practice with the weapon regularily, that will make far more difference than any difference between pistol manufacturers, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Good luck and safe shooting!

MrQuick

02-23-2008, 07:53 PM

Bottom line find a local pistol range that rents pistols and try out as many as you can until you find what you like, then go with that. It is much more important that the gun you chose feels comfortable to you. Then once you make a purchase practice with the weapon regularily, that will make far more difference than any difference between pistol manufacturers, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Good luck and safe shooting!

excellent post and idea. Thats what I did. Try them out and get the feel. You will know when you have the right gun for you.

monza

02-23-2008, 08:35 PM

Cool, informative thread. Shot a lot of different guns, I have a Beretta 92FS (9m) feels great in my hand. Not an expert, but I like it for target use. Hopefully I'll never have to test it's stopping power, but I think I'd grab my shot gun for home defense anyway?

EFI69Cam

02-23-2008, 08:46 PM

No love for SIG?

Seems the Navy Seals might know whats good.

lowboy

02-23-2008, 08:47 PM

I've got the Springfield 40 cal. and love it.

cheapthrillz

02-23-2008, 08:55 PM

No love for SIG?

Seems the Navy Seals might know whats good.

Yea, id love to be able to afford a Sig, but I can't.... that is why i was looking in the 4-500 dollar range.

chicane67

02-23-2008, 09:28 PM

^^^ The main idea behind the Glocks no external safties is to get an officer to not think about any safeties to deactivate when a stressful situation occurs.

If they are worried about that... they shouldnt be LEO's. Stress is a major part of the job. If you cant handle it... or think around it, they should get a desk job.

Not to highjack this thread for a debate... but...

Anyone who talks about Glocks going off by themselves or misfiring really doesn't understand Glock's safe fire system. In a properly maintained Glock it is impossible for the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled (includes dropping the gun onto a hard surface while loaded):

Keep in mind I really like Glock's and 1911s (I own both) but it is silly to keep trying to portray Glocks as having all sorts of problems that the "Government" is investigating.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. I think I'd rather listen to a group of individuals, whom each individually, have multiple entries in Jane's for specific firearms manufacturing acheivements... than that of an opinion which does not explain or rubuke its obvious and well doccumented history. Nothing against you and/or your opinion as you are surely entitled... but when you are trained to exploit design inefficienties in situations of hand to hand combat with specific weapons... you would think twice about pulling a Glock out, other than to throw it at someone that does know of its exploitation. Besides, its only taken them twenty three years to "train around" the associated problems of the design and re-engineering of its "saftey" to get it to work somewhat, better.

On another note... I never stated anything about any 'Government investigation'. What I did state is a portrayal of emperical facts and truth. I am fairly abreast to the Government proceedings that you and the general public are not all that aware of. And to the best of my ability, I am not aware of stating that he NOT... purchase a Glock product. But it is however, morally, our responsibility to educate those that have not and/or are not aware of the history and the facts that support a peticular arguement.

No love for SIG? Seems the Navy Seals might know whats good.

Depending on mission requirements... the standard issue currently, is H&K. But the choice of a carried sidearm by the teams is still the 1911. In fact, one of their own brothern (from III/V) who was mentored by Irv Stone and the late Armen Swensen, has sinced retired and open up his own shop... still does most of the builds for them to this day. In fact... he does all of my 1911 work as well.

Cheap... here is a quickie link to 1911 stuff up to $500: http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.htm?OG=1&ONG=0&T=1911&AS=365&LF=0&OI=0&LTID=CL,A,AB,BA&AC=&MN=0&MX=500&F=&CA=57

There is even a new in the box, Springfiled Armory GI 1911 going for $480

Young Gun

02-23-2008, 09:57 PM

never shot pistols really...might be time to give it a go...mostly a rifle man (from Texas haha) but alot of good info here!

muthstryker

02-23-2008, 10:13 PM

LoL Vince your dad is right, glocks are for thugs who cant anything :P so they need the extra 15 rounds! I prefer my dan wesson 1911 over any glock, always have always will. But, if i was in a gun fight i would take my SW .500 Mag anyday of the week :smoke:

heres a picture for size reference, for all that are familar with the .22LR (my 500 is the 8inch barrel).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/363596965_4adfe84fa0-1.jpg?v=0

muthstryker

02-23-2008, 10:21 PM

I turned 21 last year and am thinking about getting a handgun. I think that I either want a 9mm or .40SW. Here is what I am looking at:

S&W M&P 4"
Glock 19 or 23
Springfield XD 4"
Tarus 24/7
Ruger SR9

Anybody know anything about these guns or want to comment on my choice of ammo for the gun (9mm or 40sw)?

Also, it's hard to know what kind of gun you want without shooting all of them (kinda like test driving a car), so does anybody know if you can go to the shooting range and fire these different guns? Do they let you do that or do you have to find someone with each one of these guns and let you shoot them?

I am new to the handgun scene.... my family has never had a gun, but with all of the crazys out there today, I feel that I need some form of personal protection.

Thanks for any replies!

Happy Hunting! :machine:

to answer your question, I personally would take the sprindfield XD. its a very very nice gun and is starting to take over the glocks. My local police department is switching to them. But a compact 1911 style gun would take the cake in my book, you cant go wrong with those!

about the calibers you listed, 9mm is good to piss someone off and possibly come at you. .40 SW stands for .40 slow and weak. If i were you i would get an XD in a .45 or a 1911 compact style pistol. Depends on the range you go to, most you can rent pistols tho. Also check into the HK usp compacts if your looking for smaller concealable pistols..

Jim Nilsen

02-24-2008, 05:37 AM

Just speaking about my experience with them, and I have a much smaller hand and size to myself than you do.

I consistently could hit the target with a .38 S&W better than any other pistol my brother could get me to shoot. The recoil ,grips and sights might have been what made it more controlable but the real point I found is that regardless of the pistol you get, a set of custom grips will make it a more accurate one and getting one that you like the feel of from the start will enhance it even more.

So get a grip on it and if you like it, try it. You aren't going to get married to it :twothumbs

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 05:55 AM

I have a spingfield 1911 and a colt 1911 (45cal) and plan on purchasing one more of each... It is all preference, but if you can't aim get something that holds a lot of rounds lol Also S&W gots that sweet 50cal revolver I been druiling over at the pawn shop haha

Project69

02-24-2008, 06:03 AM

If they are worried about that... they shouldnt be LEO's. Stress is a major part of the job. If you cant handle it... or think around it, they should get a desk job.

Its more of a one less thing to worry about.

Action is quicker then reaction. And not having to worry about external safties makes your reaction that much quicker.

No harm intended but, I bet i could get a shot off faster then you if you had a gun with external safties to disarm, then one without. Thats the whole design of the gun, and most guns have saftey buttons, that you have to push which takes longer then the slide tab type, so that takes that much more time to get a shot off.

Project69

02-24-2008, 06:08 AM

that's one hell of alot of accidental shootings. it seems to me that cops need to learn their weapons better and get something with a real safety. it doesn't take that much to learn to turn the safety off. all it takes is practice, and from the level of accuracy i've seen in most cops, they need it.

Yup, id say more then 70% of guns accidentally going off for LEO here is stupidity. LEO get lazy (some physically also) but there technique is what gets sloppy.

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 06:13 AM

Project69

02-24-2008, 08:00 AM

I have served in Iraq and can tell you honestly that safety switches do not slow you down when you are properly trained... You should be able to switch your safety off between the low-ready position and the firing position, if not, spend more time with your weapon.

Thats the thing, they dont train the LEOs here like you got trained. Your tactical training is comparable to the SWAT team. The average joe shmoe officers just have to pass with minimun handgun certification.

The difference between you and LE's also is that they dont walk around with there sidearm in low-ready. Its always holstered, but i agree with more weapon training. Ive trained with the SWAT team and there tactical firearms course is Friggin awsome!!!! I now know why my dad loves it. Im trying to get the department to have regulatory courses buttttt you know that goes. lol

:machine:

Project69

02-24-2008, 08:02 AM

megaladon6

02-24-2008, 09:21 AM

You cant go wrong with a .50 handgun trust me ;)

i don't know. out of courtesy to the family, shouldn't there be something left of the body?:lmao:

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 09:34 AM

lol megaladon6, here in washington if you shoot someone that is in your house and they live they can sue you. thats why you need the 50 :)

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 09:35 AM

GTOnate, i would recommend that SW 500 they are badass revolvers. plus you can hunt with them! lol no need for no stinkin rifle!

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 09:57 AM

GTOnate, i would recommend that SW 500 they are badass revolvers. plus you can hunt with them! lol no need for no stinkin rifle!

I know man! It is a real mean looking weapon too.

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 10:04 AM

plus you can order these 700 grain rounds for it they will take down anything your after!!!

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 10:07 AM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 10:08 AM

they also have the 460xvr... pretty sweety
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14776&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15707&isFirearm=Y

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 10:10 AM

yep same one i have, was trying to see if lasergrips makes a grip for it i want to get one.

the 460 is awsome, i think thats the revolver that is the fastest production revolver right now.

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 10:19 AM

that muzzle velocity is insane for a pistol. I want one real bad, guess I have to sell my wifes civic :)

Project69

02-24-2008, 10:32 AM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I can just see someones hand snapping back when they pull that trigger. revolvers have the worst kick back lol

That thing is sexy, do they come in different finishes like magnum does for there eagles?

Project69

02-24-2008, 10:33 AM

lol megaladon6, here in washington if you shoot someone that is in your house and they live they can sue you. thats why you need the 50 :)

Glad i live in florida, unauthorized entry of a dwelling...expect to leave in a body bag. Gun laws are great here, not to extreme but extreme enough to get to the point.

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 10:39 AM

I can just see someones hand snapping back when they pull that trigger. revolvers have the worst kick back lol

That thing is sexy, do they come in different finishes like magnum does for there eagles?
These shouldn't be bad they have compensators, I think those only come in nickel, but they also have classic, competion and a couple other lines of pistols that may come in different finishes

Project69

02-24-2008, 10:40 AM

i don't know. out of courtesy to the family, shouldn't there be something left of the body?:lmao:

You havent seen some thing get shot with a Barrett M82A1 have you? Ive slowly been saving up for this rifle and im almost there.

Dont ask why i would need it, that would be like asking why would you need 900hp, or a car that can go 200mph :dunno: ....you just do lol

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 10:45 AM

haha rob i have 2000$ more to go and im going to order mine!!

oo and for a cop in training you arnt to bright its recoil not kickback ;)

haha just giving you a hard time :P

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 10:45 AM

I have had the pleasure of squeezing a few off on one those beauties... There is something disturbingly satisfying about knowing you can pick someone off from a mile and a half away lol

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 10:52 AM

noone flucks with you when you have one of those :) luckly for me my cousin owns a gun shop and hes going to order mine.

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 10:54 AM

Lucky dog

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:03 AM

haha rob i have 2000$ more to go and im going to order mine!!

oo and for a cop in training you arnt to bright its recoil not kickback ;)

haha just giving you a hard time :P

Where are you buying yours from? Ive seen some for around 8-10k used but i dont want a used one. And Brand new would run me about 15k.

...and yea bad habit i learned as a kid (still 18 so yea..) lol so get off my back about it haha

Atleast my grammer is the only thing i need to work on, most people its there stance and technique, but lucky for me my dad taught me his tactical ways of the firearm.

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:04 AM

I have had the pleasure of squeezing a few off on one those beauties... There is something disturbingly satisfying about knowing you can pick someone off from a mile and a half away lol

Pick is a HUGE understatment...its more like decapitate.

:yum:

With a compressor no one would ever know it was you who did it lol. Cross city shooting right there lol

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 11:16 AM

Yeah there was a video on youtue of a guy getting cut in two with one. Was pretty cool, pixilated but still entertaining

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:17 AM

compressor? you mean a suppressor? LoL

i get all my guns from my cousin, he owns a shop here in washington. so i dont have to pay more money i just pay his cost since hes not trying to make money off me he makes money off his other customers. the complete set up for me scope and all its going to run me 7k 15k that thing better be made of gold. you can always order off gunbroker.com and have them sent to your local FFL dealer alot of the guns on gunbroker are new too some are used but most are new. even with the complete package and the leupold scope its not 15k thats a rip off dont pay that much!!!!

MrQuick

02-24-2008, 11:21 AM

by the time the poor sucker hears it,its way too late. I had a chance to shoot one but I chickened out. Plus I was having too much fun on the MINIMI. When it comes to rifles i'll stick to my .308's.

If you ever get out to Vegas you got to go to the gun store. Way too much fun. We almost spend a grand last time out.

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:22 AM

vince have you been to the range where you can shoot automatics there??

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 11:22 AM

It would be cool if they had a compressor, I could air up my tires while I "bust a cap" ROFL

Young Gun

02-24-2008, 11:26 AM

Glad i live in florida, unauthorized entry of a dwelling...expect to leave in a body bag. Gun laws are great here, not to extreme but extreme enough to get to the point.

if their on your property in Texas at night you can shoot...not sure what the daytime specifics are but, its Texas haha

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:27 AM

It would be cool if they had a compressor, I could air up my tires while I "bust a cap" ROFL

HAHAHAH would give drive by shooting a whole new meaning

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:27 AM

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:28 AM

if their on your property in Texas at night you can shoot...not sure what the daytime specifics are but, its Texas haha

At night i guess you cant properly identify whos on your yard, so shot away...ask that neighbor you dont like to stop by around midnight to pick up his tools :naughty: haha

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:31 AM

LoL rob just giving you a hard time, sometimes i work at the gun store and like the mess with the "gangstas" that come in so its kind of a habit to give people a hard time when talking about guns. dont take it seriously :)

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:32 AM

Anyone know where i can pick up an M4? My friend thats in the academy with me said he loved shooting that thing, how much would 1 cost?

cheapthrillz

02-24-2008, 11:32 AM

The recoil ,grips and sights might have been what made it more controllable but the real point I found is that regardless of the pistol you get, a set of custom grips will make it a more accurate one and getting one that you like the feel of from the start will enhance it even more.

So get a grip on it and if you like it, try it. You aren't going to get married to it :twothumbs

Thanks for that info Jim. I think the basic consensus here was that I would have to go and try out all of these. I will keep in mind what you said about grips. Thanks alot.

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:32 AM

oo and 13k is still a bit high the most id expect to pay for the 82a1 is 10k with everything on it. maybe 13 if it had a nightforce scope on it or a night vision scope

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:33 AM

Young Gun

02-24-2008, 11:34 AM

Please ignore my improper word usage, im studying for a stud test and this academy is rotting my brain away... lol

I have to check out gun broker then, my local gun shop can get one but they want 13k for it.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=92996653

looks like it could save yah some green to!

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:35 AM

Anyone know where i can pick up an M4? My friend thats in the academy with me said he loved shooting that thing, how much would 1 cost?

must be talking about ar15s since i doubt automatic weapons are legal in florida. same gun just semi auto its the civilian version of the m16/m4a1.

check out rockriver arms (i have to of them) bushmaster, colt, olympic arms, there are much more companies i just cant think of them right now.

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:35 AM

Wow look at that 8500 NIB on gunbroker.

Thanks for the site. I would have shot myself with it if i bought it for 15k then saw it for 8k haha

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:36 AM

ya thats about what i would pay if my cousin didnt have a shop lol.. 13k is almost a 50% markup on the dealers cost.

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:37 AM

haha no problem.

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:38 AM

must be talking about ar15s since i doubt automatic weapons are legal in florida. same gun just semi auto its the civilian version of the m16/m4a1.

check out rockriver arms (i have to of them) bushmaster, colt, olympic arms, there are much more companies i just cant think of them right now.

No its the M4, the SWAT teams tactical weapons course allows you to own/ carry if certified by agency a full auto. They gave my dad a sweet 50 cal AR not sure of the model will ask.

Young Gun

02-24-2008, 11:38 AM

Thanks for the site.

+1, great site, glad you let us know about it, it looks like there are some good deals to be had there

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:39 AM

you will have to source out a class 3 dealer, www.impactguns.com sells class 3 weapons. class 3 weapons arnt cheap.

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:42 AM

you will have to source out a class 3 dealer, www.impactguns.com (http://www.impactguns.com) sells class 3 weapons. class 3 weapons arnt cheap.

Thanks for the site. Im gonna see if my dad can get them cheaper.

So what is your profession that makes you so knowledgable in firearms?

You sound like my instructors lol

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:46 AM

Hahaha, ive grown up around firearms, dad and grandpa are huge gun guys. and belong to alot of clubs ive learned alot of stuff from them and working with my cousin at his store. And my uncle is a gunsmith just a long line of family gun gurus LoL

megaladon6

02-24-2008, 11:46 AM

the only problem with the barrett .50 is if you're too close (say 300 yards) you get splattered. clean up is such a pain.
i'm not a fan of the m4 it's an expensive m16 with a bunch of crap on it.

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:49 AM

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:50 AM

lol, i have a video on my computer of some people getting hit with the 50 cal, im not going to post it but if you really want to see it i can send you the video just PM me an email address or hit me up on msn messenge "[email protected]"

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:50 AM

the only problem with the barrett .50 is if you're too close (say 300 yards) you get splattered. clean up is such a pain.
i'm not a fan of the m4 it's an expensive m16 with a bunch of crap on it.

lol I cant imagine trying to shoot something 2,000 yards away. I wouldnt even know where to begin to look

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 11:51 AM

You should take some weapon training courses, join SWAT and enjoy doing raids lol.

I would love to do it, but i think that since i didnt quite graduate highschool im not able to. which sucks. because i would join in a heart beat.

ill be back later mom yelling at me to get my new wheels out of the family room............................................. :lmao:

Project69

02-24-2008, 11:53 AM

Atleast its not porn in the family room

:fingersx:

Get your GED then, thats what required here in FL.

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 12:05 PM

its wheel porn :naughty:

Project69

02-24-2008, 12:10 PM

i bet, you get my pm?

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 12:12 PM

what was the topic for this thread lol

Project69

02-24-2008, 12:14 PM

Something about guns...im pretty sure we hi-jacked this thread....

nice video Matt haha

GTOnate

02-24-2008, 12:15 PM

No its the M4, the SWAT teams tactical weapons course allows you to own/ carry if certified by agency a full auto. They gave my dad a sweet 50 cal AR not sure of the model will ask.
50cal AR? Not a Ma Duece? I don't know any other full auto there is in that cal. most are 7.62 or 5.56

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 12:15 PM

haha, there is some more raw video at liveleak.com you have to register to see the graphic stuff.

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 12:18 PM

50cal AR? Not a Ma Duece? I don't know any other full auto there is in that cal. most are 7.62 or 5.56

only AR-50 i can think of is the armalite ar-50, single shot bolt action gun what i dont like about those is that you have to take out the bolt to shoot another round. they make some nice ar15s also,

another thing is that they are starting to make new top halves for ar15s to shoot bigger better calibers, including a .50 cal round its a .50 beuwolf packs a huge punch and they use the standard ar magazine. and they are only 800$s for the top halves!!

Project69

02-24-2008, 12:18 PM

50cal AR? Not a Ma Duece? I don't know any other full auto there is in that cal. most are 7.62 or 5.56

Im not sure of the specs i think it is a 50cal i saw a box of 50cal ammunition in the bag with the gun. Thats the only 50cal weapon he has.

Project69

02-24-2008, 12:19 PM

haha, there is some more raw video at liveleak.com you have to register to see the graphic stuff.

We got a couple Army ranger guys who bring vids of there war experience and the crap they do is killer.:hail:

muthstryker

02-24-2008, 12:22 PM

literally?? LoL

Project69

02-24-2008, 12:24 PM

literally?? LoL

LOL i saw that coming.

Yes literally.

chicane67

02-24-2008, 01:25 PM

Yup, id say more then 70% of guns accidentally going off for LEO here is stupidity. LEO get lazy (some physically also) but there technique is what gets sloppy.

I completely agree...

You haven't seen some thing get shot with a Barrett M82A1 have you? Ive slowly been saving up for this rifle and I'm almost there.

Don't ask why i would need it, that would be like asking why would you need 900hp, or a car that can go 200mph :dunno: ....you just do lol

You need some video? http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/50cal_sniper.jpg

Yup yup. I am just waiting until they publicly release the 82 in .416.... its even deadlier than its .50 brothern.

matty b

02-24-2008, 02:00 PM

cheapthrillz

02-24-2008, 02:09 PM

GLOCK 17 or a Sig 226. They both hold 18 rounds when properly equipped , they will shoot forever without jamming and the are light. Some guys hate polymer frames but I think its an ego thing when people say that you have a plastic gun. 9mm hydroshocks have more than enough stopping power and the extra capacity allows for more stray shots that you could potentially have in a dark place and you are awaken from a sleep against an intruder. Another possibilty for home defense is the beloved 12 gauge. There is nothing scarier than hearing the slide of a shotgun ****. I have personally shot a 12 gauge with a 3 in slug at a pic carcass and if you had witnessed that, you would not want to be on the recieving end of it. Down side to that is the cleaning bill for half of the criminals body smeared acrossed you hallway.

I agree with you on the home defense issue.... But it would be very hard to conceal a shotgun for everyday carry lol. Just kidding. I think that the regular sized glocks are too big for a daily carry weapon. I was thinking of getting the G19 or G23. They are a more compact, but not retarded looking like the G27. I would love to have a Sig, but right now they are out of my price range. I am really just looking for a good starter gun that I can keep for a long time and be satisfied with. I can always go back later and buy a custom 1911 or sig or something like that. Thanks alot!

matty b

02-24-2008, 02:46 PM

I bought a police trade in sig 226 for about 400 dollars. The only place it was worn was the bluing near the holster clip. I doubt it was shot more than a few times and I can gaurintee Ive put more rounds through it then a cop did. As far as daily carry, the glock 19 might be up your alley. The small frame 40s are a bit unruly when you tap off a few rounds quickly. Also I may suggest going to a gun range that sells guns and rent some. They normally charge 20 bucks a gun but if you want to test drive a few different ones that you are interested in, its well worth the price. Also if you have larger hands like me a small frame gun may be a bit hard to hold comfortably cause it puts your trigger finger in the wrong spot. With me my finger is actually half way through the trigger gaurd on my girls glock 19. Also I had to put a hand grip sleeve on both my 17 and 226 cause even they were a bit small for me. IMO a shoulder holstered standard frame model is gonna outweigh any pros of carrying a compact model including accuracy, capacity and feel. Think of the gun like a car and normally the fast cars are a bit longer for stabilty, same with hand guns. That extra inch could mean your life especially with the .40. Its hard to douible tap a 40 or 45 unless you shoot alot. 9mm is 10x easier to shoot

indyjps

02-24-2008, 05:09 PM

Ive got a Ruger P85 Im interested in selling, stainless 9mm I took it in on trade for some car parts, just want something different. PM me. Im in Illinois.
Waiting for a good buy on a Springfield 1911
Smith & Wesson Stainless 686P 2.5 inch barrel is my carry gun
I really miss my concealed carry license from when I lived in Indiana.

Im still kicking myself for passing up a Colt AR15 last week at a very good price but I need to put $ towards the camaro build.

cheapthrillz

02-24-2008, 05:41 PM

Bulldog68

02-24-2008, 05:49 PM

I carry a Sig Sauer P229 for patrol duty and SWAT team use. It's a good gun, but I'm not a big fan of the decock lever or the long trigger reset.

For off-duty and plainclothes detective duty, I've been carrying a Glock 27 subcompact. It's light, super reliable, and easy to break down and clean. When I carry it off-duty, I use the standard Glock 27 magazine with a +2 mag extender on the bottom. This keeps it somewhat small so it's not as noticeable under my shirt. When I carry the 27 for detective work, I use a Glock 23 magazine with a spacer so I have a full hand's grip on it and have more rounds available. Concealing the longer magazine under a suit jacket is easier than under a t-shirt.

If you're looking for a simple gun for range practice and not concealed carry, I'd recommend either a Glock 23 (compact) or 22 (full size), depending on your hand size. Both are great guns. They're relatively inexpensive and since they're popular, they're easy to resell if you ever get into the more expensive guns (H&K, Kimber, etc.).

OHCbird

02-24-2008, 10:47 PM

Cheapthrills-

To answer some of your concerns, I think most have covered them, but here's my .02 anyway:

1. Spend the extra $$ to try different weapons if you need to. So it adds $100 or so... In the long run, you'll have the weapon you want, which lends itself to better marksmanship (the whole point, remember?). Don't focus so much on price- when it comes down to that moment that you need it, would you then want to worry about spending an extra $200?

2. After you're done playing with 9mm, try .40 or 10mm (If you're set on a semi-auto pistol). I personally carry either a Glock 21 (45acp) or a customized Para 45. I used a Sig 226 to teach my kids.

3. Practice, practice, practice! Spending $20 for a decent range, and $12 worth of ammo will make you all the more ready- IF the time ever comes. I take my teen kids shooting at least once a month with me- they've shot all my weapons. They exhibit great 'shooter discipline', and know the limits of what they and the weapon can do. I suggest the same to adults (I am a concealed carry instructor when I'm home).

Good luck on your purchase- let me know if I can help at all.
JEFF

Aceshigh

02-25-2008, 01:19 AM

Many people conceal .38's and .380's, but I want something with a little more stopping power.

Then IMHO you shouldn't be considering the 9mm.
You should get the .40 - here's an oldie but goodie.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

el-camino

02-25-2008, 05:41 AM

take the money and buy parts for your car, it´s a better investment:usa:

69Pony

02-25-2008, 05:55 AM

I shoot an H&K USP .45. best all around gun I've ever owned and I've had a few. Glock? yuck.... Single stack mags - why? 1911? - come into the 20th century. .9mm? - Girlie gun...

I did try the .40 H&K offering and didn't like the muzzle flip. The .45 is a slower round (sub-sonic) so it's less of a muzzle flip but a bigger "bang" for the lack of a better term or description.

Others I would look at - Sig Sauer and Springfield Armory.

Own
- H&K .45 USP
- Browning .380 BDA (great backup gun and it's the better made French model)
- S&W #29 .44mag
- S&W 629 in .45 (bad ass gun and highly accurate / moon clips are a bitch)
- S&W 686PP in .357 ported with 7 round cylinder

Of course for a wheel gun you can't go wrong with a S&W .357.

I use the .45 USP for carry when wearing a jacket or a fanny pack. I had H&K USA in Virginia modify the slide, trigger and ported/polished the barrel, ejector and ramps. My single action is 2.5lb pull and double action is 3.5lb pull. It is one bad mofo that can put out 10 rounds in 5 seconds and hit anything 5 yards out from a holster or fanny pack panic pull. Practice, practice, practice.....

EFI69Cam

02-25-2008, 06:45 AM

take the money and buy parts for your car, it´s a better investment:usa:

You think that only because gun rights don't exist in Europe.

el-camino

02-25-2008, 07:10 AM

no man, i hate guns.
a man with balls in the shorts, needs no guns:spank2:

elcamino80

02-25-2008, 07:40 AM

EFI69Cam

02-25-2008, 08:16 AM

I have to say Im with Klaus on this one. OK, Im also from europe where you just cant get a gun and walk around with it...

But its not hard to get a gun, all you have to do is to join a "shooting club" or a hunting team and your good to go buy one.

I know for a fact that there is more guns in Finland / person than in the US but far more less shootings.

I couldn't even imagine though when I would need one since Im not hunting or target shooting.

Lets turn it the other way, how often do you guys that carry a concealed weapon have to use it?? I mean really needed to use it, where there was no other possible way to solve the situation?

I don't carry, guns bring trouble.

Having to join a club or get a license or whatever is not a right you have to get gov't consent to own, and what the gov't grants the gov't can easily take. The right to keep and bear arms is part of the founding fathers system of checks and balances. It is not about hunting or target shooting.

My mother is German, I have family there. I had considered moving to Germany but gun rights is one reason why I stayed here.

Steven

02-25-2008, 08:47 AM

Wow!!! Did Cheapthrillz spark a debate on what!!! Let me throw my 2 cents in. First, 30 + years in law enforcement. Still current in Firearms instruction and Armory. I'm partial to the 1911 style pistol and own several. Several members of our Swat team own and use their own Glock .45 for duty and tatical. Others use the duty issue Sig P220, great gun. Never saw either one fail on the range or in compitition.
Cheapthrillz, go to a gun dealer that has a range and shoot everthing that you think you want. Look heavy at the Glock, great price, easy to learn and use under stress. You'll have to take a safety class. Join a club that shoots IPDA or other move and shoot style if your getting it for self defense. With that in mind, I'm going out to the range to make some noise on the steel dingers.

69Pony

02-25-2008, 09:44 AM

Lets turn it the other way, how often do you guys that carry a concealed weapon have to use it?? I mean really needed to use it, where there was no other possible way to solve the situation?

Only takes once... I would rather carry and not need it then not carry and need it....

cheapthrillz

02-25-2008, 11:34 AM

I didn't know that we had so many avid gun owners on PT! My intentions weren't to start a debate, but it seems that it did turn into one. lol. I just started this thread because I was looking for some insight into what to stay away from or to get some ideas I didn't think of. I you guys want to turn this into a debate, be my guest. I enjoy reading everything. I will add this:

I am a college student at Clemson University. Two years ago, a friend of a friend got followed home and strangled to death in her apartment. For those of you who don't know, the population of the town of Clemson goes up by about %500 during the school year. We have had gunpoint robberies, murders, and many acts of violence. Everybody on here knows what happened at VT and the other recent school shootings. I don't want to be the guy that just sat back and watched it happen if it happens again. I would gladly give my life for the lives of 30 others. A very close friend of my family risked her life at an elementary school about 18 years ago:

Sept. 26,1988 a man walked into Oakland Elementary School in Greenwood, S.C., and opened fire with a gun in a crowded cafeteria and in a third-grade classroom. Two 8-year-old girls died, one at the scene and the other a few days later. Nine other people were wounded, including two teachers.

Edit: Found the whole story here... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE4DD173FF934A1575AC0A96E9482 60

It is people like her that set an example for the rest of society. I hope that I can be half the person she is one day!

Sorry this was a long one, but I feel that the story may have a positive effect on somebody on here....

1969CamaroRS

02-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Riiiiiiiiiiight. I think I'd rather listen to a group of individuals, whom each individually, have multiple entries in Jane's for specific firearms manufacturing acheivements... than that of an opinion which does not explain or rubuke its obvious and well doccumented history...
Kindly provide some references to back up your unfounded claims...

Nothing against you and/or your opinion as you are surely entitled... but when you are trained to exploit design inefficienties in situations of hand to hand combat with specific weapons... you would think twice about pulling a Glock out, other than to throw it at someone that does know of its exploitation.
Now you come off as a forum troll and alarmist.

I have been around guns all my life. Both my Dad and Uncle were LAPD, my Dad a member of their Swat team. My brother is now a police officer as well also a member of the Swat Team. Funny that they have no fear of Glocks and my brother uses one as a duty weapon.... We all have 1911s as well...

I am fairly abreast to the Government proceedings that you and the general public are not all that aware of. And to the best of my ability, I am not aware of stating that he NOT... purchase a Glock product. But it is however, morally, our responsibility to educate those that have not and/or are not aware of the history and the facts that support a peticular arguement.
Once again provide some proof to back up your extra-ordinary claims...

Like I said this is more a religious argument akin to Chevy vs Ford with each side claiming knowledge the other does not have and rarely will provide evidence to back up their claims.

If you really knew much about firearms you would have told him to look for something comfortable to shoot (which is what a good firearms instructor would do) rather than just trying to appear like you know more than everyone else...

martZ

02-25-2008, 08:02 PM

Form your own opinion. Test shoot several guns in your price range. I can tell you that I don't care for Glocks. For a polymer framed gun I like my Walther P99 in .40 S&W. In a .45 auto you can't beat a 1911 style handgun, especially modified. I also like my S&W 4506 .45 auto. I didn't like my Ruger P90 after shooting a S&W 4506 so, I sold it. I can tell you that I like auto's with auto-decock and cocking indicators. Just my $.02.

Spiffav8

02-25-2008, 08:22 PM

I carry the Springfield XD40 compact or the Beretta PX4 Storm. My wife carrys the Springfield XD9 compact. All are great guns and we have never had a problem with them. We use the range on a regular basis to stay proficent and safe.

We both have our CCWs and for good reason. My wife is a 911 dispatcher and the things she tells me that happen on a daily basis are cause for great concern. The bottom line is that the police can not protect all of us all the time. Infact they actually say that they are here to protect the masses more than the individual. By no way am I saying that they don't do there jobs. It's more so that the system is clogged by stupid people who keep our officers from dealing with important crimes. I sat in one night at the call center and listened in for 10 hours. Not one call was worthy of sending a police officer and the calls where none stop.

There are a lot of great fire arms out there to chose from. Try out as many as you can and find one that fits you well. Take it seriously. If you ever have to use it the results will have a serious inpact on your life regardless of the outcome.

Oz

chicane67

02-27-2008, 09:48 PM

There are a lot of great fire arms out there to choose from. Try out as many as you can and find one that fits you well. Take it seriously. If you ever have to use it the results will have a serious impact on your life regardless of the outcome.

Well stated Curtis.

Kindly provide some references to back up your unfounded claims...

Now you come off as a forum troll and alarmist.

I have been around guns all my life. Both my Dad and Uncle were LAPD, my Dad a member of their Swat team. My brother is now a police officer as well also a member of the Swat Team. Funny that they have no fear of Glocks and my brother uses one as a duty weapon.... We all have 1911s as well...

Once again provide some proof to back up your extra-ordinary claims...

Like I said this is more a religious argument akin to Chevy vs Ford with each side claiming knowledge the other does not have and rarely will provide evidence to back up their claims.

If you really knew much about firearms you would have told him to look for something comfortable to shoot (which is what a good firearms instructor would do) rather than just trying to appear like you know more than everyone else...

There is one in every crowd... and your "that" guy.

My claims are far from unfounded. You... and every other single individual can find a plethora of this very same information on, of, or about them. Just as easily as ANYONE can by not being quite the lemming or being too lazy to research any particular subject, specifically this one. The media's representation over the last 25 years alone covers this all too well. Oh... that's right... everyone in the family is an LEO... so that makes you an 'expert'. What... ??... are you the black sheep in the family ??

And why is it again that you need references ?? You are the only one around here that people don't know. After all there are quite a few around here that know whom I'm am and whom it is that I work for. Ill tell you what... let me put it too you this way. If I even beat around the bush and tried to explain to you (and the rest of the world via this forum and then consequently, the entire INTERNET) what it is that I do and whom I work for, especially in this medium, it would undoubtedly violate NISPOM protocol. But why would I expect you to know and/or understand that ?? Yeah... you are right. I dont.

But since it will make an example of you... Tim LaFrance (LaFrance Specialties), R. Barrett (obvious), the late Eugene Stoner (obvious) and Irv Stone (Bar-Sto Barrel). How's that for starters ?? Does that meet your needs ??

Forum Troll ?? Alarmist ?? How about you ?? Speculatory genuis ?? Or is it arm chair LEO... because eveyone in your family carries for a living, except you ??

Speaking of knowing firearms or at least something specific for that matter... and... for the record (pay attention here super genius)... if you would have actually read this post you would have seen this... in my very first post:

Most indoor (and some outdoor) ranges will have a variety of makes and models... and calibers to rent and shoot. But, it may cost a few bucks to run thu enough of them to find something that fits your hand and that you are comfortable with. AND ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY SPENT. You need to find something that fits your hand, your application and your budget.

And have a nice day.

cheapthrillz

02-27-2008, 10:02 PM

chicane67, are you like a special agent or something? lol

chicane67

02-27-2008, 10:16 PM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/secret-1.gif What are we talkin about again ??

cheapthrillz

02-27-2008, 10:48 PM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/secret-1.gif What are we talkin about again ??

lol Sketchball. :lurk:

MrQuick

02-27-2008, 10:49 PM

Young Gun

02-28-2008, 05:13 AM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/secret-1.gif What are we talkin about again ??

.:singing:. Secret, agent man... Secret, Agent man...

I think we have a regular james bond here hahaha

cheapthrillz

02-28-2008, 05:48 AM

JC Scott, have you been by any gun shows in your area? Another great place to feel them out.

No, I haven't been to any gun shows, I have just been trying to do as much research on the internet as I can. Would you recomend going to a gun show? Do dealers come to these or is it mainly just people selling their used guns?

skeeters65

02-28-2008, 06:01 AM

I am a huge Glock fan so I am alittle biased.. Like others have said shoot some guns before you buy.. Or atleast go to a big shop and handle a wide variety.. SOme guns fit better in peoples hands than others which will allow you to shoot it better..

Good luck and always remember all the safty rules of gun handling..

Steven

02-28-2008, 08:15 AM

Cheapthrillz, a large gun show would be good to go to and handle as many of the guns on your list and may add a few more. Still, go to the dealer that has a range and gun rental. You may even get to shoot a few rounds for free as your trying before your buying.

MrQuick

02-28-2008, 11:37 PM

No, I haven't been to any gun shows, I have just been trying to do as much research on the internet as I can. Would you recomend going to a gun show? Do dealers come to these or is it mainly just people selling their used guns?

Mostly dealers. Its also a great way to meet your local dealers and see most of their inventory in one place. Price shopping at its best.

Nine Ball

02-29-2008, 08:45 AM

If you guys like talking about firearms, I'd like to invite you over to www.SeatStaysUp.com , we have a very active firearm forum. The site is mostly car guys, it branched from ls1tech.com

Here is the firearm forum:
http://www.seatstaysup.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Tony

eville

02-29-2008, 08:53 AM

HK No Compromise

69Pony

02-29-2008, 12:56 PM

HK No Compromise

HK - in a world of compromise some don't......

One bad aZZ gun.... I really dig my USP and I've fire 8000+ rounds through it and not one stove pipe. Even with that crappy Wolf and CCC ammo.... I usually shoot American Eagle red box and for competitions Lake City 185gr match loads.

I took 2nd last year in a 25 yard competition at Ft. Belvoir in Va. Lost to a female FBI cadet who shot a 149 with a Super .38 Kimber. Her gun was worth 3k probably. I shot a 146..... 150 is perfect.

For great ammo prices check out Eric at www.ammoman.com

Samckitt

02-29-2008, 01:56 PM

HK - in a world of compromise some don't......

One bad aZZ gun.... I really dig my USP and I've fire 8000+ rounds through it and not one stove pipe. Even with that crappy Wolf and CCC ammo.... I usually shoot American Eagle red box and for competitions Lake City 185gr match loads.

What do you mean by "Stove pipe"?

I took 2nd last year in a 25 yard competition at Ft. Belvoir in Va. Lost to a female FBI cadet who shot a 149 with a Super .38 Kimber. Her gun was worth 3k probably. I shot a 146..... 150 is perfect.

For great ammo prices check out Eric at www.ammoman.com (http://www.ammoman.com)

You say the FBI cadet show 149 with a $3k gun, how much in yours?

chicane67

02-29-2008, 05:45 PM

Ya know... H&K's are nice... but try and find replacement parts for them. That is the only problem with H&K here in the states.

Both the SiG and the H&K are excellent right out of the box.

I will admit... that 1911's do need to be tuned up. Even a Kimber right out of the box needs a little help. But as for what you can spend on one... the skys the limit. Custom work can add up. I am in to my compact to the tune of about $3200 and my ParaOrd P14 is close to $5k.

The only thing I did to my SiG 220 is a Novak/Trig front dot sight and a Crimson Trace gripset. Other than that... its out of the box.

eville

02-29-2008, 06:07 PM

MrQuick

02-29-2008, 07:58 PM

What do you mean by "Stove pipe"?

You say the FBI cadet show 149 with a $3k gun, how much in yours?

stove pipe is a jam or shell with incomplete ejection.

If you guys like talking about firearms, I'd like to invite you over to www.SeatStaysUp.com , we have a very active firearm forum. The site is mostly car guys, it branched from ls1tech.com

Here is the firearm forum:

http://www.seatstaysup.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Tony Thanks Tony, that's a cool site but some of them guys are arse holes. I guess cause they don't me.

vince have you been to the range where you can shoot automatics there??

Yes and it was a blast. There are 2 in the Vegas and I think the other one is out doors.
Here's a video of Brian and I at the Machine gun store. I didn't get a lot of footage cause we were shooting simultaneously most of the time. http://youtube.com/watch?v=jMAUSQzksmI
Speaking of HK's the MP5's are a blast to shoot but its goes fast. The SD was wicked cool too.

go-fish

03-02-2008, 07:46 AM

I have a Sig 226 for a plinker and occasionally CC it, Mexican carry, no safeties on it. Just the one that's between your ears. It is super easy to break down and clean and with the Hogue grips it fits perfectly.
I would like to get a 229 and a Kimber.
After hitting a a Skoal can lid at 50 yds I decided I WOULD own one. It was absolutely a lucky shot aided with precise guesstimation using a shooting table and a sand bag though.
After joining the Navy and eventually ending up putting alot of lead down range with a Sig 226 I knew I had to have one because it is just a super duper simple weapon that shoots smooth as silk. And plinking is so much fun. I would like to get a SIG Sauer Mosquito for plinking too.
I bought a Walther PPK-S for a CCW and after getting it home and holding it more and more I took it back the next week without firing a round. I bought it because of its rep and everyone elses opinion didn't do me justice. I'm sure it's great for hiding on your body but would it take out a dude in the classroom at VT with a Glock and an XD (I think that's what he carried),
Speaking of the XD, it has a great rep, I wouldn't be surprised that it would have the upperhand on any Glock in a comparo.
Also, getting off topic, doesn't Springfield have AR's with a 7.62 chamber. That will be my next rifle.
After being in a warzone and hearing the song of a Kalishnakof and your carrying an M16A2E3, it starts to feel like your carrying a Fu(Xing BB-gun real fast.

What ever you do young SkyWalker, get the proper training and practice alot. I shoot 'Expert' pistol and rifle by US Navy standards but had a Gunny as an RSO one time and he made us do jumping jacks and pushups for like 20 minutes one time and I did so poorly. Also, do you think you will be wearing your cute little yellow S&W glasses and your Mickey Mouse hearing protection when Crazy Eddy comes in the restraunt/his former employer while your out for a meal and you have to react.
Good luck and whatever tool you choose for your bag, get to know it. Knowing your weapon is the most important thing, it's more important than the name on it, it's even more important than size or brand of ammo. Shooting skills and stress management wins over caliber in close quarter combat.

MrQuick

03-02-2008, 12:49 PM

Yes they do offer a 7.62 now as a few makers do. When I was shopping I went with the M1a for the larger round.

I'm starting the love my FNH the feel is great.

As far as CC, with all the negative gun press im more likely to use my utensils than my .40 in a dire restaurant situation. Home protection is a different story. Not that I would want to hurt anyone.

go-fish

03-02-2008, 05:04 PM

You are responsible for where YOUR rounds go, your right. There is a point where it is potentially two crazies shooting the place up. One guy just starts the shooting and the other while trying to stop him could potentially do as much damage.
Practice and shooting instruction would come in very handy. Guns don't solve problems, people who are trained and use thier head solve problems.
And Vince, how do you like the Springfield SOCOM rifle? A 7.62 chambered AR and that are on my wishlist, I want both.

MonzaRacer

03-02-2008, 05:13 PM

Springfiel in the XP series, get all the neat bells and whistles(like Piccatinny rails and tritium sights) for less than any 1911 unit.
I have a buddy who is a trooper and after he got hit in the face twice with Glock slide coming off he has since gave up on them.
I carry a P90 ruger 45 auto, I out shot my trooper friend every time and his had been to Kimber 3 times and he had over $3000 in it.
My $350 Pseries hasenever failed to fire, never jambed and will still group betterthan just about anything I have shot(yes it groups wioth the XP series springfields).
I put on Hogue grips and will replace my sights with tritium soon.
And i carry in a Fobus tactical holster.
Oh and my P series is much cheaper to work on if need be.

chicane67

03-02-2008, 07:45 PM

Springfiel in the XP series, get all the neat bells and whistles(like Piccatinny rails and tritium sights) for less than any 1911 unit.

Wait. An SFA XP series ??

Huh... thats kinda funny... SFA has never produced an "XP" or has ever had an XP series for either pistol or rifle. The XD however, which is actually the HS2000... isnt manufactured by SFA either... its manufactured by HSP of Croatia and licensed to SFA.

Oh... and just another data point on the monitary topic. You can find 1911's all over the place, I have even seen NM's, GI's and OC's for the same price of an XD. So dont let the pricing issue steer you too far off of the beaten path in your search, Scott.

At least the XD has manual safeties. In fact it got them from the Hi Power and 1911.

MrQuick

03-02-2008, 11:16 PM

I think Lee meant the XD series. I was close to buying but it didn't feel right to me. I think if it had a hogue it might have changed my tune. Croatia hu? interesting. Them ruskies make some nice weapons.

I picked up my SFA 1911 up about 11 years ago for $750 and it is well worth the price considering its stainless. I feel its a nicer piece than a comperable Kimber. My father owns one. I bought my FNH P-40 2 months ago for $560 and im loving it too. Great versitile gun. I agree, don't skimp cause you will just end up with a gun you will not like.

No, I wish I had a SOCOM. They weren't out at the time. I just have the NA1902 match version.Very nice rifle. Still accurate after 8 years of use. Im running a 4-16 x 44 Nikon Monarch BDC scope now and it makes some real nice long shots. Im gearing up to buy another stock for it. Check this out Go-Fish. http://jae100.com/

muthstryker

03-02-2008, 11:31 PM

I have a buddy who is a trooper and after he got hit in the face twice with Glock slide coming off he has since gave up on them.

sure it wasnt a HI-point??? :rotfl:

69Pony

03-03-2008, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Samckitt

You say the FBI cadet show 149 with a $3k gun, how much in yours?

I guess I have about $1500~2000 in mine. The base gun was around $800 as a V2 variant (set up for a leftie). The work by HK Sterling was around $500 and I bought a Jarvis extended/O ring/ported barrel and had tru-dot tritium sights added for around $500.

The type of shooting done is with FBI targets often called Q or bottle targets because they are shaped like a bottle to represent the torso and head area. In the center of the "body" is a Q. Not sure what the Q represents. If your round lands totally within the body it's a point. No point if outside or touching the line. Sounds easy but at 25 yards it is not.... Outside shooting also... As the contest progresses, the distance stays the same but you have to shoot over boxes, behind cover and one round (10 shots) from the left side and right side of a "door" frame.

So in 150 rounds she missed ONCE. I missed 4 times.... Some LEO, FBI and other various letter agency guys didn't hit 50%.

Another great shooting experience is IPSA shooting. I did their 3 gun competition at Ft. Meade a couple of years ago. Duty gun, backup gun and shotgun all in one round. You walk a course where you have to drop targets with your duty weapon including a mag change (can't hit the ground), then pull a backup piece and fire through a mag change and then pickup a shotgun and "finish" with a series of pop up full size targets. Alot of fun but very draining.....

http://www.ipscireland.org/

For AR - I like the AR10. I dig the heavier round of a .308 over a .223,

MonzaRacer

03-06-2008, 04:59 PM

Well if I had my druthers for a pistol the XD series will be home next but honestly my P series Ruger is still tops in my book and out shoots alot of supertuned/built 1911s.
Not that 1911are junk I just dont see the reason for such a rediculous prices for a nearly 100 yr old design.
Even with up dates they still have issues in my book.
I havent had to replace part one in my ruger and it has over 3000 rounds to date through it and still looks decent(tac holster wear) and has never jambed anything but the burd shot I once had to use on a cat. But then it was never built to shoot birdshot.

rob07002

03-06-2008, 06:15 PM

WOW! You guys get to own a gun???

They won't even let us have sporks here in Joisey! We are children in this state....

the camtender

03-06-2008, 08:20 PM

WOW! You guys get to own a gun???

They won't even let us have sporks here in Joisey! We are children in this state....

Why do you suppose that is ?

el-camino

03-06-2008, 09:38 PM

you american´s are great !! you talk here about hand guns, and when i´m post a video from a crazy illegal burnout the thread was removed:pat: :bsjerk:

go-fish

03-07-2008, 05:48 AM

Was it removed to the Multimedia section or was it removed off the forums all together?I am sure there is an explanation.
Please don't hate on us because we are talking about guns, it's not a very good reason. You should hate on us for something more spectacular like how American youth wear pants down to there ankles and are disrespectful to old people, you know, things like that.
There is nothing wrong in most Americans eyes about gun ownership by responsible citizens. This is a discussion by gun enthusiasts who have no bad motives to own a firearm. We like target shooting, hunting game, and the security of having a gun in the house because in the States there have been burglaries and rapes where a persons domain was broken into by an intruder.
One incident comes to mind where a man was killed, one teenage daughter raped and killed, a mother killed and another daughter killed by two men who were recent parolees from jail. Things like that really do happen here and I would bet they happen in your country sometimes as well.
This is a discussion which you don't agree with but I am sure all the other posters would appreciate it if you were to not bring controversy into it. Please accept it as just some crazy Americans talking about crazy American things and leave it be.
BTW, I think street racing is far more irresponsible than a person who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon utilizing a right that was given to him by his own government. But that is of coarse my opinion and you are in no way being put down because you disagree, it is just where our two worlds don't agree.
Thank you for understanding Klaus, I am sure you are a very kind person.

EFI69Cam

03-07-2008, 05:59 AM

And Vince, how do you like the Springfield SOCOM rifle? A 7.62 chambered AR and that are on my wishlist, I want both.

The DPMS 7.62 AR is nice. It uses the same mags and barrel/reciever interface as the KAC SR-25, so accessories are easy to find.
The armalites are nicely made, use widely available m14 mags, but accessories are scarce.

derekf

03-07-2008, 06:01 AM

I'm not seeing the connection, Klaus, between discussing handguns and your burnout videos being removed.

From the forum rules:
2). Street Racing: Pro-touring.com in no way endorses or promotes street racing, or any illegal activity and strongly discourages any of its members from participating in said events, unless legally sanctioned. Any videos containing said content are eligible for removal by a moderator, if the content is deemed unbecoming, per their discretion.

(link (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15920) for your future reference)

go-fish

03-07-2008, 06:14 AM

The DPMS 7.62 AR is nice. It uses the same mags and barrel/reciever interface as the KAC SR-25, so accessories are easy to find.
The armalites are nicely made, use widely available m14 mags, but accessories are scarce.

I was looking into DPMS the other night and they have some real value buys. About the cheapest M4 type for around $900.
I will know on the 13th if I am getting stationed permanantly overseas, I hope I stay stateside. I would be able to still go to the ranges over there with the M16, M4, SIG 226, and Berreta M9 but I want my own guns dang it!

monza

03-07-2008, 07:04 AM

This thread feels like a action novel.:enguard:

rob07002

03-07-2008, 09:17 AM

Why do you suppose that is ?

Don't know...

6'9"Witha69

03-07-2008, 09:23 AM

Why do you suppose that is ?Liberals?

the camtender

03-07-2008, 10:12 AM

maybe voting differently this election could help change that around for you guys ?

rob07002

03-07-2008, 12:43 PM

Lock the thread now, NJ and politics are a lethal mix! LOL!

I think population density has something to do with our laws, then add crime rates, etc, etc and bam, you need a stool sample and DNA analysis just to own a bb gun.

They give everyone drivers licenses though:pat:

As for voting differently, this topic is soooooo way down on anyone's list it will never come to light. Believe me, I care much more about the fact that our property taxes are the highest in the country and our infrastructure is so behind.

go-fish

03-07-2008, 01:01 PM

Are you allowed to pump your own fuel yet?

the camtender

03-07-2008, 01:50 PM

I'll say it again, maybe it's time to start voting differently :pat:

Fawkes

03-07-2008, 03:26 PM

Back to the topic at hand, I purchased an S&W M&P .45 recently. I love this thing, and would highly recommend it.

cheapthrillz

03-09-2008, 10:12 AM

So, I went and took my tests for the CWP yesterday and passed with flying colors. I got perfect on the written and target sections. I scored a perfet 250 on the shooting and learned alot about CC. I am going to mail off my application tomorrow, and they said it usually takes a little over a month to hear back from the division. Hopefully my application wont get rejected, but I doubt it will. I made sure that I included all of my paper work. So, now the task at hand is to find a suitable shooter that I can practice with. I am going to have to get an inexpensive gun because I am an extremely broke college student. I think around $400 is going to be the max that I can spend (because my parents don't want to help me out with this). I think I have decided that I am going to get a 9mm for now because the ammunition is much cheaper. I think I want to find an accurate/good gun that will last a long time. I want a semi-auto instead of a revolver for now.

With that being said, I will put a poll in this thread to let you pick the 9mm you think would be best. Thanks for all of your help.

Fesler built

03-09-2008, 10:52 AM

try firing the HK very nice and no recoil, you can get full size and compact.

go-fish

03-09-2008, 09:12 PM

Be sure to look at the trigger pull on all models especially single action models. You may not have time to **** it in certain situations. I am a double action fan but if I were to pull my carry weapon and not have time to **** it I am afraid it would be a couple inches off to the right because the trigger is like 18 lbs single action!
I need to shop for a light triggered single action CC gun as well.
You should call SIG Arms and see if they have any 226's that are refurbished. They are considerably less than new, totally gone over, and they are super reliable and probably the easiest hand gun to break down and clean.

goinforbroke

03-09-2008, 09:57 PM

Kinda got into this late but, I have a Smith 40VE. No jams or problems but, the double action only makes for a heavy trigger pull.

Good Luck.

Gun control means always keeping your eye on the front sight.

cheapthrillz

03-10-2008, 10:47 AM

I doubt I will get a SAO handgun.... Not for CC atleast. I am not too worried about trigger pull because I plan on getting a decent trigger in whatever model I get. I have so many friends that are in law enforcement or have huge gun collections, most who are willing to sell me a good gun for not too much $$$. It's just hard to figure out which one to get. I am going next week to shoot with my CWP instructor and my friend's dad. Neither of whom knows how many guns they have becuse they have so many. I hope this will give me some more insight into which gun I want.

Thanks for all of your replies on this one! You guys are helping me out a ton!

muthstryker

03-10-2008, 05:03 PM

Texas 1972 Velle

03-10-2008, 05:14 PM

I used to be a Federal Air Marshal, I always carried a glock 19 and a 26 both 40 cal. I have fired at least 5000 rounds through each and still perform flawless. I have since moved of the ranks in DOJ and carry a P series SIG .357. I don't really like it as much as the glocks.

megaladon6

03-10-2008, 05:19 PM

:offtopic: i'm sorry but what's wrong with "...time to **** it in certain..."? is this obscene? what if someone is talking about a rooster? or about their donkey? i think P.C. has just been taken way too far.

cheapthrillz

03-10-2008, 05:30 PM

lol, they make you take a firing test to get a CWP?? thats odd. here in washington you just go down to your local sherifs office and fill out the forums, take your finger prints blah blah blah, then they give you a receipt and you get your cwp in the mail a month or so later..

yea, you take a total of 50 shots at a coke bottle target. 10 from 3 yards, 10 from 7, 10 from 10, 10 from 12, and 10 from 15. It was the simplest shooting test I have ever seen. Although, there were people there who didn't get a perfect score. I think they just make sure that you can hit what you're aiming at from a close range...

MrQuick

03-10-2008, 07:45 PM

megaladon6

03-11-2008, 03:07 PM

your a ****head. Hey your right....thats ****** up.
did you read the original comment? if i call someone a dumb ass that should be bleeped. if a farmer has a dumb ass(donkey) there is nothing wrong. i won't continue to hijack the thread, but i hope you get the point.

MonzaRacer

03-11-2008, 03:15 PM

reliable cheap pistols try the P-series Rugers. I have a P90 in 45 auto and its cheaper to shoot than a 9 mm. I can usually get ammo cheap (military hardball) from surplus stores.

Fawkes

03-12-2008, 01:10 PM

So, now the task at hand is to find a suitable shooter that I can practice with. I am going to have to get an inexpensive gun because I am an extremely broke college student.

First, from a $$$ standpoint, you might want to rethink that revolver option.

Also consider a used Glock. 9's aren't my fav round any more, but i have about 250,000 rounds through my G19, and the only failure it has ever had was a broken striker after about 200k rounds.

Frankly, I've turned into a 1911 kind of guy (thanks, Dad!). If you weren't so far away, I'd make you a good deal on a Springfield.

lol, they make you take a firing test to get a CWP?? thats odd. here in washington you just go down to your local sherifs office and fill out the forums, take your finger prints blah blah blah, then they give you a receipt and you get your cwp in the mail a month or so later..

And this is one of the reasons that reciprocity with a WA CPL is so small. If we did have a testing standard, like TX or FL does, I might be able to take a vacation in OR... which I won't do now.:guilty:

cheapthrillz

06-27-2008, 07:50 PM

Just to let everybody who helped me out with this decision know, Wednesday I ordered my first handgun from a local dealer.

I went with what you guys were trying to tell me all along. I figured for a first handgun, I needed something simple, reliable, and affordable to shoot....

So I ordered a compensated Glock 23 (compact .40 SW).... It should be here monday, so I will try to post a pic....

Thank you for all of the help on this one!

Young Gun

06-27-2008, 08:22 PM

let me know what you think of it...i and getting my Concealed soon and was looking at the 23 as well

Samckitt

06-28-2008, 04:08 AM

I have my eye on a Kimber .45 cal. Been buying everything on a Cabelas Visa & racking up dollars on it to use at their store. Here soon will make a trip to the one in Hammond IN.

cheapthrillz

06-28-2008, 06:18 AM

let me know what you think of it...i and getting my Concealed soon and was looking at the 23 as well
Sure thing! I will just post on here how well it shoots. I have a feeling its going to be loud though...

I have my eye on a Kimber .45 cal. Been buying everything on a Cabelas Visa & racking up dollars on it to use at their store. Here soon will make a trip to the one in Hammond IN.
I really wanted the Kimber pro carry .45, but I figured it probably wouldn't be the best for my first/starter handgun. But yea, Kimber/Wilson Combat/Para will probably be my next choice...

saunacrank

06-30-2008, 08:27 PM

XD-9 Subcompact to carry or Springfield EMP 1911 9mm. I'm only 5'8 175 and I wear tight shirts so in order to pack I have few choices. I also have a glock 17 but it's just an extra gun I have lying around.

navyflyer72

07-01-2008, 03:04 PM

my $.02 and nothing more, Sig Saeur makes one of the most reliable handguns around. I have just returned from being deployed and many of the spec ops guys I worked with were carrying Sig's as their last resort.

Granted stopping power is less with a 9mm, but that is why you stun them with two to the chest and then finish the job with one in the forehead. You can take out 5 guys that way before you reload if you practice enough.

Like I said this is just my $.02, but far-be-it from me to argue with my friend, they kinda know their job really well. Plus Sig has been my first and only choice when going over to Afghanistan or Iraq as my sidearm. Everyone is different though and these pistols may not feel right in your hands, always test shoot. Find some friends with different pistols and have them go with you to the range, you buy the ammo and offer to help clean and shoot all day long until you find the pistol that fits you.

-George

41565 chevelle

07-01-2008, 03:43 PM

Fellas, be very careful with the compensated Glocks!!! If you are training close quarters drills you will get a lot of the pressure up towards your face and eyes. In addition, at low light/night ops you get one shot and then your night vision is gone. They are great for competative combat shooting during the day, but for concealed carry not so good.

I carried a Glock 23 for years working undercover and a Sig 226/40 cal as a duty weapon. Now I am running a Glock 21 for duty and back up/off duty is a Glock 30. I wear it on my ankle when working and in my front waistband when off.

Be prepard and don't get caught being a sheep, be the sheepdog!

41565 chevelle

07-01-2008, 04:00 PM

Keep in mind, no matter what you pick you need to be proficient. The only drawback to the 1911 is that some that carry them are not very proficient with the thumb safety and the beaver tail. The triggers are very light a lot of times and wacky things happen. I've seen a couple 1911 accidents and they aint pretty.

They are great guns, I have 5 in different configerations Para/Colt/Springfield/Gunsite custom as well as several Glocks, Beretta and Smiths. Know what you are carrying and use it often in the event you need it....baaaaa!

MrQuick

07-01-2008, 05:23 PM

The Sig 226 is a great looking gun. It was high on my consideration list. Any of your guys using the Springfield XD service 5"? I might be looking to trade in my FNP40 for one.

dogtag

07-01-2008, 05:55 PM

Well, I guess there's so many guns because there are so many different needs.
Case in point;
I live out on the Washington Coast. It's pretty wild and wooly out here.
Just North of my home, there is no Cell coverage from any company for almost a hundred miles.
I ride my horse on some of the backwoods or on the beaches and have a blast but I'm sure afraid that some nasty is going to get the drop on me and I'll be food....
I've never seen so many Black Bears, Cougars, Wildcats, and other tooth filled critters in one area than out here on the coast.

I carry one of two weapons as a side arm.
When riding my horse, I carry a chest strapped .454 Casull which fires a 300 grain slug at 1725 ft per second.
Other times when I'm in and around my ranch I carry a Para Ordnance
.45 which fires a standard 240 grain slug at 900 ft per second.
I like this weapon as it is double action which means I can have "one in the tube" without the hammer being extended.

The .454 will stop any Bear at close range. It easily penetrates
quarter inch steel deck plating with it's 300 grain slug.
The .45 is, well, ......a .45. Good for stoping two legged animals.

I do also have a .38 and it will kill a bear at close range also.
All I have to do is show it to him and then he'll die laughing. LOL.

I dunno, I really want to just have to shoot something once.
The .454 would be impracticle for military as the ammo would be a real burdon from a weight standpoint and the weapon only holds five
rounds. At close range, I don't think there is much body armor that would stop it, though.

To each his own, I guess.

bwhinnen

07-01-2008, 07:06 PM

My words of advice to those that are carrying a double action of any sort, make sure you practice a great deal with it please! With such a heavy trigger pull the tendency I have seen is that most people end up just snatching the trigger, whilst this may mean the difference of a few points in a match it can well be life or death for someone else...

The thumb safety and beaver tail safety on a 1911 style pistol is very easy to get used to, the more you practice the more it becomes second nature. And besides issues with beaver tail safeties not working on the rare occasion they do enforce a half decent grip technique.

My favourite smaller pistols have always been the Sig or the Para Ordnance. I used to have a lovely little P12-45, with replaced and matched hammer and sear and a different shaped trigger. This was a fantastic little handgun and oh so accurate and easy to use.

My wife is about to start shooting so I'll be on the hunt for a 9mm for her (we can't have anything about .38 in caliber for most use over here).

I'll probably get something more standard (read practical) compared to my competition gun, but alas I cannot even contemplate a .40 as I would have liked to.

Bobby Schulz

07-03-2008, 04:21 AM

Stick with a quality 1911,sig,glock,springfield xd,HK and you will be fine.
See what you like not what the gun store comando says.

Put at least 500 rounds though it before you carry to make sure it works. Get a good gun belt like a wilderness tactical and a quality holster

bwhinnen

07-03-2008, 12:31 PM

Anyone here had much to do with the Springfield XD (9mm) or the S&W M&P9? I'm talking those with a barrel length of 5" (we have to have a barrel length of more than 4.72" by law here).

XLexusTech

10-03-2009, 05:09 AM

Question about 1911's. I am in the market for one. I have a line on a Kimber custome 4 inch barrell for 589.0 used. This is a bit high for me. If anyonhe has any suggestions on a good quality 1911 preferiably on the light side (I had two kimbers in my had yesterday one was a hell of alot heavier then the other) the lighter was $1100 bucks.

any decent sub $500.00 1911'S OUT THERE?

cheapthrillz

10-03-2009, 09:32 AM

Wow, I completely forgot about this thread!

Here is the gun I ended up getting (New Glock 19C w/ Milt Sparks IWB holster):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

cheapthrillz

10-03-2009, 09:36 AM

Since I got that one last summer, I have also purchased these....

Ruger P95 (Early Model):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And a Springfield Mil-spec 1911 (w/ Skeletonized trigger and night sights):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

MonzaRacer

10-04-2009, 02:25 AM

My pick for hand guns after many years shooting,
I can say if you want first gun thats inexpensive and can do some damage, Rock Island 1911 copy in .45acp.
BUT it is a cheaper gun and you should get it in a gunsmith shop and have better sights, Wolfe spring kit and some trigger pull tweeks.
Now as for me, my carry gun(lifetime handgun permit holder)is Ruger P90 in stainless/composite(?),w/ Hogue grips in .45acp right now its loaded with silver tip hollow points but may get HD rounds or Hydra Shoks.
so here is my short list of guns I recommend for fun,hitting power, dependability (from my experience):
Ruger P90 .45 auto (also look at .40SW but dont remember number)
Springfield Armory XD compact in .45 acp or .40 SW
Taurus Millennium (Pro) in .45acp
Sig Sauer in a Sig .357 (friend has had better luck as its a 357 slug in front of basically either a .40SW or .45acp load of powder and its bottle nosed so it feeds everytime)
Then Rock River 1911 .45acp
then most Ruger or Taurus revolvers in medium frames.
I have been around guns all my life and for the life of me I have never felt the 1911 was best first gun, I have seen so many with minor issues and so far everything from Rock Islands to $5000 custome never did better than my Ruger P90 I got for $350.
My next will probably be an XD compact in .45acp. with tactical light.

Oh and after friend had a Glock lose the slide and get a 3 in cut on his face from it blowing apart, Ill never own one, EVER.

wicked68

10-04-2009, 04:28 AM

Tony_SS

10-04-2009, 05:37 AM

jilge71

10-04-2009, 10:19 AM

I love my xd 40 - I have one of the first ones that came out ages ago and have never disassembled it or cleaned it - I shoot it a the range about 4 times a year and it just works. It must be 7 or 8 years old at this point.

its a machine. its accurate as hell too.
man i have a xd 40 as well and it has been used and abused...lol i have shot over 3k rounds through mine since ive owned it and i bought it used! i carry mine as my backup gun when i go hunting.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/etyww4-1.jpg

The Rook

10-04-2009, 05:18 PM

I have had my Beretta PX4 Storm for over two years now and have easily fired 2000 rounds through it without a problem. It's extremely accurate and easy to shoot. I would highly recommend it. I also have a Beretta Neos 22 with the 7 inch bull barrel and a red dot scope for plinking. That one is sooooo accurate it's almost impossible to miss the bulls eye!

Rhino

10-04-2009, 06:59 PM

i have a xd 40 as well and it has been used and abused...lol i have shot over 3k rounds through mine since ive owned it and i bought it used! i carry mine as my backup gun when i go hunting.

I love my XD 40 as well. I've had it 7 months with no complaints yet. Simple to tear down, well balanced, and reliable so far. I'm not as accurate as I'd like to be, although this is my first handgun with such a short barrel. I'm hoping it gets better with time.
The one drawback many have with it is it's short grip. If you have large hands, you may feel a little crowded. If you go for the extended clip, it gets rid of that issue. I tend to prefer the smaller grip.

As Tony said, the LCP is a great gun as well. Especially for CC. My biggest complaint about it is the lack of a safety.

Tony_SS

10-05-2009, 05:54 AM

The LCP has a fairly long trigger pull so its safe in that regard, but when seconds count I don't want to worry about anything that'll stop the gun from firing.

For the XD 40, if you have big hands try a Hogue grip. They're great.

USAZR1

10-06-2009, 12:23 AM

I just picked up a Ruger LCP. It's like carrying a cell phone. I added a trace and its just a great little carry gun. Now, finding some good .380 is another issue.

I recently shot an XD-40 and it's amazing. Very accurate and it sold itself after the first round. It'll be my next purchase for HD.

I carry an LCP,also. Finding good ammo has been a little difficult but I'm starting to build up a little stash. Wish it was chambered in 9mm Parabellum as I have around 5K rounds of that. The gun is so small that it fits snugly in my pants pocket w/o printing.
My former carry gun was a Star PD .45acp. Wish I still had it. I'm now looking at a CZ-75 Compact.