More proof that street racing is stupid!

[toxicz28]

When will people learn?
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/8-killed-in-drag-race-on-suburban-road/20080216110009990001

[TwinSting]

Actually the street racers didnt kill anyone in this tragic event. It was the dumb fault of the spectators who were standing on the highway and didnt get out of the way when a car came down the road (not a street racer), possibly without his lights on!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have seen the scene a thousand times. A couple guys start talking trash at the local cruise spot, they go off into a lonely street at 3 AM, and the most dangerous part of the race is the 100s of spectators that come out and play chicken with 2 racing cars! The racing is stupid, and I will admit to having a fair bit of it under my belt. And it was dangerous. But when we shook the crowd and got alone, it was only 1/10th as dangerous! And we were only endangering ourselves.

About the time I had teenagers, my street cars started breaking into single digits easily, and simply got way to fast to "street race". The cars got to fast, and I DID NOT want the kids doing what I did. So myself and a couple friends started organizing some "grudge races" at the track, and got the American cars off the street racing scene. Around here, there is VERY little American muscle street racing, 95% of the street racing is kids in imports, and it is a entirely different type of racing through downtown / busy highway / rush hour / type of racing. While niether is safe, what we did was a bit more thought out.
I realy do feel badly for the people that watched their family members die, some heart wrenching stories here.

[79T/Aman]

the street racer did kill anyone!??? and the gunman doesn't kill anyone ether the victim gets in the way of the bullet that type of nonsence is the reason we have stupid laws in this country

[WS6]

This story is weird. These were spectators and they were hit from behind by a car that had nothing to do with the racing. That crown vic is torn up from hitting those people. Look at the ages of the people also, I was not expecting it to be people in their late 30 and 40s. Sad event for sure. If that crown vic did have its lights off, I think that drive has some serious questions they need to be answering. Were they drunk? Could they have done this on purpose? Very weird.

[WS6]

the street racer did kill anyone!??? and the gunman doesn't kill anyone ether the victim gets in the way of the bullet that type of nonsence is the reason we have stupid laws in this country

Did you read the story? This was another car that had nothing to do with the race that hit these people. Your analogy is completely wrong in this instance. Street racing is still dumb but the racers killed no one.

[shmoov69]

It sucks for all, espically the one, well everyone. We have all done it. Will prolly do it again (if the circumstances are just right). We have hopped up cars and want to show off or be seen, that is what we do. Otherwise we would be at the country club with the whine & cheez crowd. I hate it for the hobby, gives it a HUGE black eye. I just wish that there were more dragstrips around and they had regular open/test n tune nights, that would help slow it down. But it would still happen. Heck they raced cars on the street since........well the second car!

[toxicz28]

Actually the street racers didnt kill anyone in this tragic event. It was the dumb fault of the spectators who were standing on the highway and didnt get out of the way when a car came down the road (not a street racer), possibly without his lights on!

And if it wasn't for a street race, they wouldn't have been in the street. So, technically it was caused by street racing/ racers.

[rocketman]

Actually the street racers didnt kill anyone in this tragic event. It was the dumb fault of the spectators who were standing on the highway and didnt get out of the way when a car came down the road (not a street racer), possibly without his lights on!

Thats what I just heard on the news, the racers caused now of it, someone drove up the street with no lights

[go-fish]

"He liked going to the race track, watching races," Courtney said. "It's going to take a toll on my family for a long time."

This is the ignorant mentality of the street race clique. Public roads are not "race tracks".
What we do know is the driver of the white sedan is not being charged so they probably were legal and just on their way somewhere minding their own business.
Whether the racers or the crowd is at fault is highly debatable. This was a place known for racing and one guy admitted to the ignorance in thinking the stretch was actually a racetrack. Would the by standers be there if there was know street race? Would the racers have been there if there wasn't an audience? If they would have chosen to be there without an audience, would the wreck have happened anyway?
From looking at it, personally, the crowd is at fault.
People should be held responsible for their own actions these days. They did not use risk management. When you don't think about the consequences of standing in the middle of the road in the middle of the night it is hard for me to find anyone else at fault when you get mowed down like a weed.
I feel very sorry for the driver of the white Ford and am most happy they did not die on account of eight idiots.

[TwinSting]

Toxic- Do you always drive the speed limit and obey all the laws? Doesn't really matter. Don't want to argue who is at fault for what happened when we all were not even there. I just hate when they blame the guy who did not cause the accident or problem just because he is a " street racer". By the way most of our cars are set up they would put us in that group too if they see us driving down the street. Except you Toxic, I am sure you spend time and money like the rest of us to make your car have more power and handling but drive like grandma at all times!

[Vegas69]

It's all perspective. When I was 18..maybe 23 it was cool. Would I do it today? Under the right circumstances, yes. That being open desert with no people around. People are going to get hurt or killed doing almost anything. I say live your life to the fullest. Who wants to be stuck in a nursing home crapping their own pants anyway.

[68Formula]

And if it wasn't for a street race, they wouldn't have been in the street. So, technically it was caused by street racing/ racers.

Thinking like that is part of the reason we are out of control with lawsuits which in the end hurts our economy.

The racers did not force them to watch, nor direct them to stand on a highway in the dark at 3am. In this case, their injuries and death were a consequence of their own conscious decisions. People need take ownership for their own actions and stop trying to blame others. Heck, if you want to play that game, maybe the crowd is at fault for encouraging the racers to match up.

This was a horrible tragedy. It was risky and wrong for the racers to be doing it on public roads. I feel especially bad for that innocent driver who accidently hit the crowd. Even though it was not his fault it will stay with him for the remainder of his life. But, you don't stand in a highway in the dark, period. And if you see an illegal race, get out of the area fast. In many states, just watching is illegal just for this reason.

BTW, anyone who posts here should read the full story in detail before responding. In this case the racers did not hit the crowd. The crowd was illegally gathered on the highway and was stuck by a 3rd vehicle, and a tractor trailer might have been involved later as a result of the first accident. Very horrific sounding.

[Jim Nilsen]

On another side of the situation, this could have been someone simply stalled on the road and some people like us who would stop and help to get them off the road get run over. This happens to police and many helpful people all of the time. It is reccommended that when you stop to help someone that you don't pull up behind them but rather in front of them so you are not the first hit car in such an incident happens.

I am not saying this situation had everyone there for the right reasons but this could have happened if they were there for the right reasons. Take heed and observe the possiblities when helping others and don't let this happen to you or anyone else just for being helpful and caring. Accidents like this happen all the time for many other reasons . especially things like fog and dusk or dawn when headlights are often not on when they should be.

Be careful out there, it's not just a street racing problem in this instance.

[Project69]

I have seen the scene a thousand times. A couple guys start talking trash at the local cruise spot, they go off into a lonely street at 3 AM, and the most dangerous part of the race is the 100s of spectators that come out and play chicken with 2 racing cars! The racing is stupid, and I will admit to having a fair bit of it under my belt. And it was dangerous. But when we shook the crowd and got alone, it was only 1/10th as dangerous! And we were only endangering ourselves. Around here, there is VERY little American muscle street racing, 95% of the street racing is kids in imports, and it is a entirely different type of racing through downtown / busy highway / rush hour / type of racing. While niether is safe, what we did was a bit more thought out.
I realy do feel badly for the people that watched their family members die, some heart wrenching stories here.

+1. Before i got my job, i used to street race. But we would literally drive 45 mins into nothingness when we found a fresh paved road used by companies during morning hours. We would start around midnight (no cars within atleast 3 miles) spectators stayed behind the cars running, no chances of cars coming in front of use because it ran into a dead end about 2 miles down. We were more cautious of others then ourselves when we did this.

[LateNight72]

In before the lock. :woot:

Really though, street racing, in any form, is asking for trouble. No matter how well one "plans & prepares" something can always go wrong.

[GPI]

I would have to definately agree with go-fish. Its too bad that it happen but its the spectators at fault 100%. At what point in your life can you honestly say its a good idea to stand in the middle of the highway in the dark? Come on, i would like to say it should be common sense but this incident proves the lack of that. Yeah, street racing has gotten very careless in the last 10 years, it will continue to happen no matter how may tracks you build. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

[Jim Nilsen]

Driving 30 or 40 miles out is the same as being 30 to 40 miles from help :seizure:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, for me here is the problem, the classification of "Street Racing". The street in front of my shop is in a industrial park, and a nice 1/8 mile test track on Saturday and Sunday. Every time I finish a car and take it for a "test drive", or take one of my cars out to "Play," I can be arrested for "Street Racing". I got a "Street Racing" ticket for leaving a light real hard at 3 AM all by myself! It's a long story, I got it thrown out.

Every one of us here as raised a little hell beside our buddy on a Saturday night. Everyone of us has tested our high performance monsters at recklessly and unlawfully unsafe speeds. As I said, I won't "Street Race" anymore, but you can bet your ass if you get me and a buddy Little Bull side by side at a light I'm gonna be kickin his ass again through 2nd gear and then we will lift! And that my friends is street racing, and there is not a damn sole in here innocent.

So while I really do not condone "Real Street Racing", and REALLY hate imports version of it, I also know we are all TECHNICALLY guilty of "Street Racing"

[comp-spec]

Well, for me here is the problem, the classification of "Street Racing". The street in front of my shop is in a industrial park, and a nice 1/8 mile test track on Saturday and Sunday. Every time I finish a car and take it for a "test drive", or take one of my cars out to "Play," I can be arrested for "Street Racing". I got a "Street Racing" ticket for leaving a light real hard at 3 AM all by myself! It's a long story, I got it thrown out.

Every one of us here as raised a little hell beside our buddy on a Saturday night. Everyone of us has tested our high performance monsters at recklessly and unlawfully unsafe speeds. As I said, I won't "Street Race" anymore, but you can bet your ass if you get me and a buddy Little Bull side by side at a light I'm gonna be kickin his ass again through 2nd gear and then we will lift! And that my friends is street racing, and there is not a damn sole in here innocent.

So while I really do not condone "Real Street Racing", and REALLY hate imports version of it, I also know we are all TECHNICALLY guilty of "Street Racing"
THE DRIVE HOME LAST NIGHT ME IN AN 05 MUSTANG TURBO AND MY BUDDY IN AN 03 CORBA....GUILTY

[trapin]

Very sad story. I am of the opinion that if this street racing thing gets severe enough for a city, it might be worth their efforts and a little money to just open a public track with super cheap admission. Something like $5 a head. Everyone signs a waiver and the spectators sit in the stands. Money well spent to eleviate a nagging problem and keep people safe.

I used to street race down on French Road in Detroit. Back then it wasn't the cars you had to worry about killing you....it was the gang members who drove by and fired their guns in the air.

[Mkelcy]

Street racing is stupid. It's been stupid everytime I've done it; it's stupid everytime anyone else does it. It's just stupid.

That said, to say street racing caused this accident is just like saying that grocery shopping at an open air market caused all those deaths in Santa Monica, California several years ago when a car plowed through the crowd of shoppers.

What "caused" this accident is a driver traveling down a dark road at 3am with no lights on. I suspect an impaired driver, but it's much easier and more expedient to blame street racing.

[TwinSting]

Nicely said Mike.

[toxicz28]

Toxic- Do you always drive the speed limit and obey all the laws? Doesn't really matter. Don't want to argue who is at fault for what happened when we all were not even there. I just hate when they blame the guy who did not cause the accident or problem just because he is a " street racer". By the way most of our cars are set up they would put us in that group too if they see us driving down the street. Except you Toxic, I am sure you spend time and money like the rest of us to make your car have more power and handling but drive like grandma at all times!

Hey look Shaun. I'm sorry I'm not willing to drop $200 grand + in Boyd's lap to build my car, and get my mug on tv.
I never mentioned anyones driving, or taste of car build style. Nor did I get up on my soapbox to say anything more than"Street racing is stupid". But since you asked.

Do I always drive the speed limit? No.
Do I obey every v&t law put out by the state of New York? No I don't.
Do I street race anymore? F-NO! And I'll add it was stupid then too!
Since I'm on my soapbox, I will also add dui, dwi, driving while tired, AND driving at night without your lights on (which usually means you're drunk or up to no good) are all stupid too!

The fact remains that 8 people are dead. Directly/indirectly related to street racing is up to the DA's office. But you can call it whatever makes you feel better.

[scotzilla]

im willing to put money that the white crown vic was driven by and undercover cop who took off after the two racers without his lights on so the two cars wouldnt know they were being chased- Seen it first hand atleast a dozen times.

a few years back a freind was at some local races- A cop came barrelling in with his lights on- everyone tries to take off and the cop ends up loosin control and running over a spectator on foot. craziest part about it is they tried to charge my friend with accesory to manslaughter for simply being there with the victim- granted they were in the street in the middle of the night but one stupid action doesnt warrant another-

Same exact thing happened in oakland last year- Cops broke up some street races- Sped off after a few cars- THe cop came over an overpass where another car was making a u turn- the cop was going over 80mph in a 45 and t boned this car making a uturn- killed a few people.

seems like you never hear about cars that are actually in a race ever crashing- it usually something to do with spectators or cops in a pursuit

[harshman]

Every time street racing is mentioned on this forum it inevitably gets locked because two or more guy’s gets their feathers ruffled and starts name calling. Damn near looks like the start of a street race to me. Clam down.

Yup, street racing is stupid and most of us have all done stupid things here. Two cars line up and a handful of idiots gather at the finish line to see who the winner is. However, defending the stupid action doesn’t get us anywhere either. I‘d like to see you guys take that energy and put it to use in encouraging tracks to start opening up on Fridays and Saturdays with a “run what you brung” deal like they have in Vegas and elsewhere. Oh and by the way, it works very well.

[Project69]

a few years back a freind was at some local races- A cop came barrelling in with his lights on- everyone tries to take off and the cop ends up loosin control and running over a spectator on foot. craziest part about it is they tried to charge my friend with accesory to manslaughter for simply being there with the victim- granted they were in the street in the middle of the night but one stupid action doesnt warrant another


That my friend is called transfered intent. The Police officer would never have been in that situation if it wasnt for the people. There fore it is legal for them to place the vehicular manslaughter on the victims friend. Read up on it.

[GPI]

I spent 10 years in the military and not a week went by that there was a DUI/DWI no matter what country I was in. Believe me, EVERY possible attempt was made to aviod the situation. Meetings on how to stop it/ FREE programs/ extra punishment, nothing worked. Street racing will happen, no matter what(not to say its right or wrong) its there. People need to take responsibility for their own action in the end. Racing or not, stand in the middle of the road at night and your at your own risk.

[Damn True]

We don't really need MORE proof that street racing is stupid do we?

[z4me69]

was on the news that the driver of the crown vic was drunk .street racing is stupid but i'm guilty of it will probably do it again when the money and situation is right . yes stupid but i have never been or will ever be guilty of drunk driving.

[68Formula]

That my friend is called transfered intent. The Police officer would never have been in that situation if it wasnt for the people. There fore it is legal for them to place the vehicular manslaughter on the victims friend. Read up on it.

I believe there should be a certain amount of discretion for people that have to deal with dangerous situations like police and military, but being blamed for someone else's mistakes, absolute b.s. I don't care if that is a law or not in a state, that is wrong. Just another example of the blame game.

[Moose]

was on the news that the driver of the crown vic was drunk .street racing is stupid but i'm guilty of it will probably do it again when the money and situation is right . yes stupid but i have never been or will ever be guilty of drunk driving.


so far that has not been the case.No charges yet towards anyone. I think it will take a while before any charges are filed. There may not be any charges since the police are saying the vic driver is a "victim"

My cousin worked the crash scene and said it looked like a war zone.( firefighter there) Told me car went a good distance past first collison.

lots of rumors, but no hard facts yet. THe driver of vic was only 20 and is not a undercover cop.
THey sell the crown vics at auction around here really quickly..

Someone else had said that maybe he was trying to scare the racers with the car by sneaking up on them.. Either way he was traveling at a pretty good speed..

Organized street racing is pretty dumb, but I've done it.. I'm no angel just like 90 % of us here.

The people should not have been standing in the road..Guy should have had his headlights on.. Tragic accident, with a lot dumb moves.

[6'9"Witha69]

seems like you never hear about cars that are actually in a race ever crashing- it usually something to do with spectators or cops in a pursuitTune into SoCal (LA area) news and there is a story every week or less about street racing killing someone either in a crash with another vehicle or a pedestrian crossing the street. Tragic either way when these a-holes do it at 6 p.m. on residential streets or commuter paths. I am guilty as are most of the midnight run. Looking back I am glad nobody ever crashed and nobody ever got hurt. But that was pure luck in hindsight.

[trapin]

When we did it back in the day it was always in the wee hours of the morning, like 2am or 3am on a long stretch of desolate road. One of the hottest spots around was this entrance ramp off of Hall Road on to I-94. Because of it's unique location and the topography, the ramp stretched for a little over a 1/4 mile before you actually entered the highway. It was the safest place around and most of the people stayed back instead of lining the roadside. Years later they widened Hall Rd. and abandoned the old entrance ramp in favor of a new one. The old one is still there but is now land-locked and overgrown with weeds. No one ever got hurt in those days. I think today's youth are a bit more reckless than we were.

[Gonzostyle]

.......I‘d like to see you guys take that energy and put it to use in encouraging tracks to start opening up on Fridays and Saturdays with a “run what you brung” deal like they have in Vegas and elsewhere. Oh and by the way, it works very well.

Actually the program at Sears Point kept me from street racing. When I got my license my parents said go to Sears Point and run your car. From that point on I had no desire to street race. I went every Thursday, or Wednesday when they changed it. I got my fill of smokey burnouts and speed. Plus I KNEW how fast my car was, not like most of the smack talkers.

-Jeremie

[navyflyer72]

I live about 20 minutes from where this happened and know the area a little, not a good place to be racing (you can see in the reports that have pictures of the accident scene that the speed limit sign says 25 mph). But I too am guilty of driving aggressively, fast and maybe even somewhat dangerously when I was younger. Like many of you I had some fun between the stoplights on many a Saturday night. But these were all risks that we took to fulfill a need for a thrill or attention or whatever. Most of us will never grow out of this and 29 years from now I could be in the newest Prius and a Neon pulls up next to me and grandma looks over and gives me the nod and a rev, damn skippy my 65 year old a$$ is gonna floor that pedal when the light changes... but again, I will be taking a risk.

Here's the difference. Situational Awareness. I ALWAYS know what is going on around me especially three to ten car lengths down the road, which is even more important since I injured my right eye and lost a lot of my field of vision, so I scan constantly (something I perfected flying in the military), secondly I anticipate the worst case scenario at all times, and I develop a plan to react to it, this way I might not be surprised and I will - hopefully - at the very least; react, not freeze up.

Realize that you are NEVER safe, even sleeping at home at night, a damn space rock could fly through your roof and smash you, but you can definitely decrease the odds of a freak accident happening to you. I have never participated in an organized street race and I do think they are stupid and maybe I think that way because I am 36 and have outgrown much of my stupid ways from my younger years and maybe it's because I have had way too many near death experiences in my career, so I gravitate towards legit racing on a track (which is NOT devoid of risk). Kids that street race tend not to gravitate towards sanctioned racing for monetary reasons, and that is a problem.

With regards to this particular accident, I think the crowd which was made up of mostly 30-40 year olds is absolutely responsible for their actions. To stand in the middle of a road any time of the day is simply dumb. Whether the driver of the vic was drunk, sleepy, or maybe trying to sneak in and beat the racers with his lights off in a "come-from-behind" win, who knows and who cares.

We should all learn a lesson that sh%$ happens... the worst sh%& happens at 3am.

[fast400]

...sad

[Moose]

I live about 20 minutes from where this happened and know the area a little, not a good place to be racing (you can see in the reports that have pictures of the accident scene that the speed limit sign says 25 mph).

Actually way off on this.. The sign you are seeing is for the access road for the businesses off of RT 210.. Speed limit on 210 is 55mph

For a street racing spot its pretty good. You have 8 miles of striaght flat road that is two lane highway.. Where they leave from is out in the middle and you can be seen from behind if lights are on.

Also it was reported today that the driver of the crown vic was driving on a suspended license. They were also back out there yesterday reconstructing the crash scene again.

looks like to me they are going over all the details..

[69ratfed]

Here is the 1st article.
http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?s=7882155

and here is the latest,
http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?s=7893421

either way you cut it, it is still sad. There was a 61 year old man that died out there. He was there with his daughter and grandchild.:hand:

[navyflyer72]

Moose: You are right, that is the access road speed limit sign (my bad), because the wreckage was strewn all over this I thought they were hit there, that just makes this whole wreck that much worse if stuff was thrown that far, any official word yet how fast the vic was going (with his lights off at 3am and his license suspended)?

As for the 61 year old that died out there in front of his daughter and granddaughter, yes sad, but really??? Maybe I'm just a cold S.O.B. or maybe I'm just not that much of a night owl anymore (I'm getting a little old I think) but man, WTF is a 61 year old dude doing out in the middle of a road at 3am watching a bunch of kids street race... seriously.

At some point in a MAN's life they need to start making mature decisions, and you would think by 61 most would hopefully have learned that. Standing in the middle of a road at 3am, (unless you are a state road worker with lights and signs and trucks), is just stupid.

Hey, I hate to see people die unnecessarily, but wow if this doesn't fall under the poor headwork category, I don't know what does. (stepping down now off my soapbox)