buffing time

[Jaymz]

how long should it take to buff the average muscle car? I think Its taking me way to long. Here is what I'm doing (basicly)
1 wet sanding with 1000
2 trizact 3000 on a da
3 buff with a wool pad using perfect-it extra cut
4 buff with a foam pad using perfect-it swirl remover

[ProdigyCustoms]

So, get ride of the DA ASAP, DA wet sanding is banned in our shop, it will pig tail the hell out of it. Whats a pig tail? You will find out soon as you buff it 3 days later!

We go 2000, Trizact 3000 on a hand pad, 4000 Buff Flex on a sponge pad, then buff. We are doing a black car right now, we charge 36 hours for sand and buff, we are at 41 hours today and just started the buffing. However, after 4000 it should only take a couple days to buff it completely

[Vegas69]

:jump: Lucky SOB whoever he is.

[ProdigyCustoms]

UGH! What a fricken project.

[el-camino]

Frank,
please replay for dummies:hand:
for the moment i do this job on my Camino.
first step, is ready, wet-sanding with hand-block just in one direction, and 2000 paper.
please give me a tip and idea for the next step and best result.

some time ago, the last paint on Camino, i do follow steps:

1 wet sanding hand block 2000 paper
2 machine 3M perfect it II fast cut compound
3 machine 3M perfect-it II fine compound
4 machine high gloss polish

now i will make a better job.
please tell the bavarian dummie in Luxembourg your how-to
thanks

[comp-spec]

depending on the car we will start with
800 wet sand
1000wet sand
1200wet sand
1500wet sand
2000wet sand....... sometimes higher it matters on color
NEVER A DA
PERFECT IT COMPOUND
PERFECT IT POLISH
HAND POLISH
ABOUT 50 HRS

[hotrdblder]

depending on the car we will start with
800 wet sand
1000wet sand
1200wet sand
1500wet sand
2000wet sand....... sometimes higher it matters on color
NEVER A DA
PERFECT IT COMPOUND
PERFECT IT POLISH
HAND POLISH
ABOUT 50 HRS
exactly, , the 800 really cuts the clear flat, i usually use hard block for 800, then soft pad from there.
jake

[el-camino]

the dummie ask gain:
wtf is
NEVER A DA ???


depending on the car we will start with
800 wet sand
1000wet sand
1200wet sand
1500wet sand
2000wet sand....... sometimes higher it matters on color
NEVER A DA
PERFECT IT COMPOUND
PERFECT IT POLISH
HAND POLISH
ABOUT 50 HRS

[derekf]

wtf is
NEVER A DA ???
They won't use a dual-action (air) sander on it, ever.

[dharrod]

I'll add that it depends on your color, how well the paint is sprayed, how much clear is on, how many cars you've buffed. Obviously the more orange peal you have the lower you'll start off with. I was told a good paint job will only require two stages of wet, 3 creams, and a wax. If all goes well when I paint I can use 1500/2000 or 1500/2500. Pick your poison on the creams .. several ok brands out there. Lamens terms are 'compound' then 'swirl remover' then 'glaze' (generally 3 creams). I mentioned amount of clear only because a quality paint shop not only lays down a good starting point but they also know how much to lay down and how to work through the buffing stages (i.e they don't over sand with 1500 and are able to work the stages). It also helps to have the right tools both a strong straight spin buffer with a big ole pad for the compound and a separate random orbital buffer really help (it takes forever to do the first cream with a random orbital). Finally BLACK SUCKS ... the finest lines can be seen. I say a black car takes 2-3 times as long.

[el-camino]

aaah, thanks:hammer:
i never use anytime a air sander or electrical.
i sand only with hand-block

[Boyd]

Yes, derekf is correct - DA is a short way of saying (D)ual (A)ction sander.

Production shops (shops that do mostly collision repair) use a DA sander to speed up the sanding and buffing process.

Most custom shops recommend to NEVER use a DA. Like Frank says, it will pigtail. Or worse yet, a DA sander in the hands of someone inexperienced will cut through the clear very quicly - especially near panel edges or on body lines.

[comp-spec]

I'll add that it depends on your color, how well the paint is sprayed, how much clear is on, how many cars you've buffed. Obviously the more orange peal you have the lower you'll start off with. I was told a good paint job will only require two stages of wet, 3 creams, and a wax. If all goes well when I paint I can use 1500/2000 or 1500/2500. Pick your poison on the creams .. several ok brands out there. Lamens terms are 'compound' then 'swirl remover' then 'glaze' (generally 3 creams). I mentioned amount of clear only because a quality paint shop not only lays down a good starting point but they also know how much to lay down and how to work through the buffing stages (i.e they don't over sand with 1500 and are able to work the stages). It also helps to have the right tools both a strong straight spin buffer with a big ole pad for the compound and a separate random orbital buffer really help (it takes forever to do the first cream with a random orbital). Finally BLACK SUCKS ... the finest lines can be seen. I say a black car takes 2-3 times as long.

There is a differance on how the paint lays down to how much sanding it needs. ..but 1500-2000 will never get all the peal out.
Im not the best but I feel I HAVE ALOT OF PAINTING UNDER ME ( paint work on over 2 thousand cars ) and there is a lot of things that matter to get the best look ...not all your paint jobs lay out perfect if it looks to thick we'll 500 wetsand and reclear then sand and buff ...THEN AGAIN EVERONE HAS THERE WAY THEY LIKE

[comp-spec]

exactly, , the 800 really cuts the clear flat, i usually use hard block for 800, then soft pad from there.
jake

What's up Jake hows it going up there ...We use a block first to cut it flat and then a soft pad too

[Jim Nilsen]

I am curious as to which type of lighting and how you position it ?

I had times where it looked just perfect as it broke through and it was mostly in part of not having proper light along with just being tired and not seeing it happening.

So how many watts do you burn ?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Have not been following this post, but I left out the intial cut passes in a effort to help prevent breaking through for the rookie. We will use quick 600 to 800 cut pass on a long block, then bring it up from there. but if you have never done this before you can fid your self in trouble very quick

[J2speedandcustom]

My advice is no matter what grit you start with say 1000. When you go to 1200/1500 you need to sand until all the 1000 grit scratches are gone. Keep doing this until you start wheeling (buffing).

Our rule of thumb is 1/2 day sanding and buffing per panel. So if a car has 2 fenders, 2 qtrs, 2 doors, roof, deck lid, valance, rear panel = 10 panels = 5 days. So take your time and get a good trouble light to help you see the scratches.

[The WidowMaker]

how many coats of clear do you guys lay down? does anybody wet sand btwn coats? can you put down too much clear? somebody above said if its too thick they cut it first. was this peel too thick, or clear itself too thick?

my plan 2 coats base, sand, 2 more coats base, 3 coats clear, sand, 2 more coats clear. im not painting in the best booth, so most of the sanding is to get any trash out with a quick round of 800. also there is no sanding btwn base and clear of course.

my first job was my frame and i dont plan on buffing it at all. the clear laid down really nice with my sata, but its no where near nice enough to be a body.

[J2speedandcustom]

how many coats of clear do you guys lay down? does anybody wet sand btwn coats? can you put down too much clear? somebody above said if its too thick they cut it first. was this peel too thick, or clear itself too thick?

my plan 2 coats base, sand, 2 more coats base, 3 coats clear, sand, 2 more coats clear. im not painting in the best booth, so most of the sanding is to get any trash out with a quick round of 800. also there is no sanding btwn base and clear of course.

my first job was my frame and i dont plan on buffing it at all. the clear laid down really nice with my sata, but its no where near nice enough to be a body.

This is personal preference and desired end result. You need to apply enough coats of base until 100% coverage is obtained. This can be 2 - 5 + coats depending on the color and brand of paint. The amount of clear depends everyone sprays different and my 4 coats are not the same as your 4 coats. A better rule is the amount of material you are actually spraying example 32oz of material per coat. Spray as much as you can without the clear running off the panels and sagging all over the place. ;) Follow your flash times and don't rush. Get a dirt pick and before you spray the next coat get as much of the dirt out as you can. "You'll never get it all out".

You need enough clear to cut 1 coat off when sanding and 1 coat when buffing. So if you lay out 4 coats you'll have 2 left when it's done.

[The WidowMaker]

can you apply too much clear (too many coats with proper flash)?

Good idea to sand inbtwn or not (cant be done btwn base and clear unless single stage)? seems to me that this is a great way to fix minor imperfections btwn coats. my cars going to be blown apart and the body will be on the rotisserie. sanding shouldnt be too hard, but its going to ruin the tape job each time. how well does trash sand out? meaning, if i have some dirt in it, whats it going to look like once its sanded?

when you guys say hard block it first, are you talking something like a durablok? what soft blocks are you all using?

Thanks, Tim

[hotrdblder]

yes you can apply to much, look in your paints tech manual generally they will have a coat number max and or a mil thinkness max, i never go over 3 coats, if i want more i block it with 800 then re clear and sand and buff

[The WidowMaker]

hotrdbldr - why do you cut it inbtwn coats? trash, peel or does it just turn out better?

do you ever sand btwn base coats?

Thanks, Tim

[hotrdblder]

i usually never cut base down, i usually apply my coats of base 2-4, then go around and nib dust in the base once nib'd i will re apply some base in those areas, then i go on to clear, no i do not cut clear in between coats.
i apply 2-3 coats let cure, sand flat and buff or if theres 2 tone or stripes etc i clear again 2 coats and sand and buff, it burys everything, so theres no tape lines etc.
basecoat should be applied so that it flashes before much dirt etc can get in it.
i usually do not go more then 3 coats of clear anytime, but i use standox and 3 coats of my clear is like 5 of duponts or other americanmade clears

[The WidowMaker]

thanks for the replies, and sorry to hijack the thread. what size tip do you use with your standox clears? my previous clears have been shot with a 1.3 sata 3000 rp digital. they lay out really nice, but i shoot a little dry to avoid runs and sags. some have said to shoot a little heavy since a few runs are easier to clean up than a whole cars worth of peel.

[hotrdblder]

dont run the clear, apply a happy medium between the two. i use a 1.3 tip on a sata rp for my standox hs clear. runs suck, sometimes you can get them, other times you can't, it will sand flat but there will be a wave where the run was, i hate runs