Throw in the towel? New Vs. Old

[budweasel]

Just looking at the new CTS-V. Very impressive. Don't know if I'm losing faith or what. For what the new Caddilac costs I can almost get my car to where I want it to be. I have a '68 Camaro RS/SS imposter, (VIN shows straight six with 3speed and standard interior). Is it wrong to look at new cars? I feel like I'm having impure thoughts.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks

[Bill Howell]

There is no one more in tune with Protouring and not many that have put more miles on their car than myself. I still love the GTO and looking forward to driving the Charger later this year. However, sometimes you just want something new and fresh, with a warrenty and decent gas mileage. I bought this about a month ago for that very reason. Hey, for the next 100,000 miles, if something goes wrong, I simply take it to the nearest Chevy dealer....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_8224a-1.jpg

[Nine Ball]

New cars get it done for much less money in terms of performance and handling, along with safety. We just like old cars for the cool factor and uniqueness of them. That, and the fact that old cars hold their resale value better. The new CTS is a very nice car, we enjoy ours. I can't wait to drive the CTS-V later this year. Might have to trade in... :)

[budweasel]

I guess the real "turn on" is the modern technology and safety that comes along with it. It is frustrating as my project has been on hold for several years now. Thanks for the replys, I hope there are more because I'm trying to value two goals that are only similar in performance, and very different in other respects.

[Nine Ball]

Take a look at Bill's C6 above for a good example. They are selling brand new LS3 C6 Vettes for around $40K. You simply couldn't build a pro-touring car that could top it in all aspects of performance for that budget. That, while having a warranty and numerous safety features and comfort. Those LS3 Corvettes are running low 12s stock. When you see that the majority of us are spending well over $40K on pro-touring cars, it sure makes those newer cars look appealing.

But, these old cars attract quite a bit of attention for much less money. I can go roll around in my '70 Chevelle or '69 Camaro (both cost less than $40K) and get just as much attention in those as my '06 Viper. I'd say it is a toss up.

[69rs]

You see that both guys that replied to this thread have numerous old & new cars! They say "why choose"!

[MrQuick]

Word of caution...once you go new its hard to look back. Heated seats, no exhaust smell and DVD got me spoiled. Never been the same since.

[scogin918]

The new Nissan GT-R is one of those kind of cars. 3.3 0-60 and top speed of 193. There is no way I could duplicate those results for $68K in my '69 and be able to drive it every day with a warranty. But then again, not everyone has a '69 Camaro like mine. It still would be nice though...

[andrewb70]

The problem with new cars is that no matter what kind of car it is, odds are, sooner or later you will be sitting at the light and the same car will pull up next to you. If it was all strictly about performance numbers, safety, comfort, than a new car will win every time. When you build a car with your own effort, skill, and knowledge, there is a tremendous sense of satisfaction that comes along with that. Much more so than just writing a check and making payments. It really comes down to whether you are a builder or an owner. It's really a philosophical difference. Some people love the challenges associated with building a car. Other people just want to own and drive them. Neither is right or wrong, just different ways of enjoying the same hobby. Which one are you?

Andrew

[Steve Firebird]

I guess the real "turn on" is the modern technology and safety that comes along with it. It is frustrating as my project has been on hold for several years now. Thanks for the replys, I hope there are more because I'm trying to value two goals that are only similar in performance, and very different in other respects.

I have had the same thoughts my self. I went through so much BS and extra cash just tring to get my car (68 Firebird) painted and running that it sorta turned me off. I still have a lot of time left to spend on the car and its just not fun any more. I desided to leave it a lone for a while and come back to it later. I picked up a 1997 TA with less than 20,000 miles on it last summer and have really injoyed driving it. Its pretty quick and handels well with all the creature comforts. I am sure I will have more than 40K in my 68 when finished and I paid 11500.00 for the 97. In the long run I belive I will sell all but my 68 but its tempting to think about buying an new Camaro after they have been out for a few years.

[Rhino]

Word of caution...once you go new its hard to look back. Heated seats, no exhaust smell and DVD got me spoiled. Never been the same since.
Strangely enough, I'm going the oposite direction. I grew up with older cars but recently owned a string of newer muscle. It seemed that no matter how much I liked my current car, the first Gen Camaro was always calling.

I guess I fall in the "why choose" category. I still own my '02 SS and am currently building a '68 Camaro. I seem to prefer the smell of fresh vinyl mixed with 30 year old grease :)

[Vegas69]

For a daily driver sure. I went through the new Corvette stage myself as my second car. I was going to buy a new Z06 but decided I wanted something unique that I could build myself. New cars aren't unique and you can't buy as many cool parts for them.

[budweasel]

Maybe the wiring in my brain has changed. To add to the dilemma, I don't even like my '68 Camaro as much as I did a year ago. For some reason I'm warming up to the split bumper second gens, (not enough to answer my original question though).

I think as I get older and progress in family and work my free time has become too valuable to be cloistered in my garage.

Maybe it's just a phase but the instant gratifcation isn't always a bad thing.

If I were to scrap the "major" plan for the Camaro and do more of a cruiser type thing the budget might allow both but I'm sure I would look at it and wonder, "What if?".

Thanks for all the responses, this is really helping me get my head around the problem.

Andrew, coming to grips with what capabilities and time I have and what I imagine to have is tough. Kinda like soul searching.

Thanks,

Jason

[John McIntire]

The new Nissan GT-R is one of those kind of cars. 3.3 0-60 and top speed of 193. There is no way I could duplicate those results for $68K in my '69 and be able to drive it every day with a warranty. But then again, not everyone has a '69 Camaro like mine. It still would be nice though...

The technology in that car alone is impressive! Makes me think twice too............

[Restomod]

The new Nissan GT-R is one of those kind of cars. 3.3 0-60 and top speed of 193. There is no way I could duplicate those results for $68K in my '69 and be able to drive it every day with a warranty. But then again, not everyone has a '69 Camaro like mine. It still would be nice though...

Not everyone will have the Skyline, only limited #'s will be built. If I could I would already have one.........BUT I would still want my old cars to!

[trapin]

My Camaro has been a lot of fun to build but it has also been quite a bear as well. This will probably be the last classic car that I attempt. For my next project I am really looking at the C5. I have always loved the C5, I just think it's a sleeker design than the C6 (although I like the C6) and it still has the hidden headlights on it which I think are essential to the Corvettes lineage. In a few years a 2002 C5 should be less than 20 bills and for that kind of money you're getting an incredible vehicle. Hydroformed chassis, state of the art suspension and brakes, lightweight body. Invest another $5000 or $6000 into the engine and drivetrain and you'll be grinning in the ZR1's rear veiw mirrors.

[WayneE]

For me, the lure of a classic project is more about legality. It's getting more and more difficult to modify newer cars because of emissions.

I have a 2003 C5 Z06. I started with long tubes and a supercharger (along with other mods for safety and appearance). That was good for 550rwhp and high 10s in the 1/4, while still retaining emissions legality (well, it had cats) and stock-like driveability. Now I'm doing a new motor (pics on my website in my sig), fuel system and 2 turbos. I'm aiming for low 700s at the tire on less than 1bar, but will also run cats and try to keep the car as legal as possible for the street.

But no matter what I do, I still need to take it to the emissions test every 2 yrs and hope that I can get it to pass the plug in test.

Here in MD, you don't need to do ANYTHING for an older car. No inspection, no emissions, nothing. I don't have to worry about doing any mods and no passing a sniffer or plug in test.

Also, when you buy newer cars part of the $$ spent is for the warranty. You throw that right out the window when you start hacking them up. I just sold a 2006 E55 that was an absolutely incredible car. It ran 12.1@115-116 bone stock on street tires and was a comfy 4 person people mover. I wanted to mod the car, like many of my friends had done, but the cost of breakage and losing my warranty was way too high.

Something for you to consider when looking at a new car.

Good luck. If you can swing it, I say do both old and new :)

[Nine Ball]

I have always loved the C5, I just think it's a sleeker design than the C6 (although I like the C6) and it still has the hidden headlights on it which I think are essential to the Corvettes lineage.

The 1st gen Corvette guys are going to hate you now. :rotfl:

[trapin]

Yeah, I've already heard if from this guy Tom at work. He has a '57. The hidden headlights were on these cars for 41 years and to me that's enough time to make them an essential part of what a Corvette is. In my opinion anyway.

Don't tell the first gen guys. LOL!!!

[CRCRFT78]

I would have to say that I too am getting a bit tired of the musclecar deal. Although I love them, the time and money spent on everything has worn me down to the point where I'd like to throw in the towel. The reason I don't is that no one will have an exact replica of any of my vehicles if/when I ever finish them. And my job doesn't pay me enough to be able to afford a new vehicle anyway.

[Bill Howell]

Yeah, I've already heard if from this guy Tom at work. He has a '57. The hidden headlights were on these cars for 41 years and to me that's enough time to make them an essential part of what a Corvette is. In my opinion anyway.

Don't tell the first gen guys. LOL!!!

What about us C-6 guys?:squint:

I always felt the same way Tony, until the C-6 came out, but I love the front end on them now. :cheers:

[ssdeuce]

I love my 2004 Z06. It's the best of both worlds. It's kinda loud shakes a little from the cam has all the little noises you get in a hot rod. But 24mpg and pretty comfortable ride it's a really well rounded car.

[budweasel]

Thanks for all the replies. I think there is no right answer. I will rethink my big plans and focus on the fundamentals. I don't really need an aftermarket subframe, among other things. I will tone my budget down to a point just this side of remorse. Meaning I will leave the option open for both cars by spending less on the Camaro.

Thanks again, everyone really had some good points.

[Tony_SS]

Word of caution...once you go new its hard to look back. Heated seats, no exhaust smell and DVD got me spoiled. Never been the same since.

Not true... I went there with an 06 GTO M6. It was a dream to own and drive but they kept sending me... what are they... oh yeah, payments! :here!:

And on a new car there's really nothing to piddle with.. For the most part, everything is done - what fun is that?

[aggressive male]

Are you guys sure that for the same amount of performance your better off buying a new performance car than souping up old? I really thought it was the other way around. I thought everything about mid 70's and newer was too bogged down by pollution control to be faster than 60's cars? Are you guys just talking about new cars with turbo?

[aggressive male]

Just looking at the new CTS-V. Very impressive. Don't know if I'm losing faith or what. For what the new Caddilac costs I can almost get my car to where I want it to be. I have a '68 Camaro RS/SS imposter, (VIN shows straight six with 3speed and standard interior). Is it wrong to look at new cars? I feel like I'm having impure thoughts.

Comments appreciated.

ThanksBut you can get fiberglass fenders, hood, doors, trunk and other fibergass pieces for the camaro, and for the shell you can buy any piece you can possibly damage. Can you do that with the cadillac? Maybe if it's a 76 or earlier. So what do you do when the caddy rots?

[Vegas69]

A new car is like a beer bottle to me. Once I am done with the one I'm drinking, I pick up the next.

[budweasel]

Not that it is a major concern in my deliberation but, if you look at what the shop charged that repaired Penny versus what it costs to repair a newer car it actually seems cheaper to wreck a newer car. Just my opinion but not really a concern. I am probably more of a owner than builder.

Again, thanks for all the replies. It has really helped me get closer to a decision.

[BlindSideCustoms]

for me i love to have something i can play with and work on, but for daily driving i will be purchasing a new car in the next 2 years just because of the warranty. i have the worst luck with things breaking, engines blowing etc. i have been thinking about a 2010 camaro if i can find a dealer that has a 100k warranty. but the only downside to that is that if i had the car i would want to procharge it etc. and then it would kill the warranty and the whole point in buying a new car. so i dont know what ill do since i always want to mod my cars. and i do want something in and around 30 mpg with a warranty. although i hate to admit it ive had good luck with hondas.

[aggressive male]

Not that it is a major concern in my deliberation but, if you look at what the shop charged that repaired Penny versus what it costs to repair a newer car it actually seems cheaper to wreck a newer car. Just my opinion but not really a concern. I am probably more of a owner than builder.

Again, thanks for all the replies. It has really helped me get closer to a decision.How do you figure? And what are we talking about? I would agree that fixing a car from before they had bumper shocks would be more expensive than one with.

[Bill Howell]

Are you guys sure that for the same amount of performance your better off buying a new performance car than souping up old? I really thought it was the other way around. I thought everything about mid 70's and newer was too bogged down by pollution control to be faster than 60's cars? Are you guys just talking about new cars with turbo?

Go test drive a new C-6, you won't have to wait for the answer then.
Or if you come to Pigeon Forge I will let you drive my GTO and C-6. More money by far in the GTO, but the C-6 (stock) will run circles around it.....hands down.

[aggressive male]

Go test drive a new C-6, you won't have to wait for the answer then.
Or if you come to Pigeon Forge I will let you drive my GTO and C-6. More money by far in the GTO, but the C-6 (stock) will run circles around it.....hands down.I just looked up c-6 in the wikipedia because I wonderd how it's so fast. I see it's small even for a corvette, it has a lot of carbon fibre parts (I like that a lot) no supercharger but has an aluminum frame? Sounds like a sure sign the car isn't going to last long. when you have a bunch of steel parts bolted to aluminum you get a battery corrosion effect that makes the aluminum corrode fast. Just take a look at the aluminum backing plate of a bumper for a typical 70's car, And they are doing this with a corvette frame?

[Vegas69]

For the second time...oh boy

[bigvegan]

Saw this vid mentioned on another forum. That CTS-V is pretty sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyyP3rEZRYM

[Scott Parkhurst]

The whole reason I build old cars...

...is to beat new cars.

I don't drop crazy money to make my old cars "perfect". They aren't showpieces. Rather, for less than 20 grand, I build my dream of a unique vintage car that'll hold its own against spankin' new stuff anywhere (street, drag, road course).

I might get dominated by new Vettes, but those owners don't have the satisfaction of building their own rides either. Plus, for less than a 20 grand investment, I'm still capable of being out there and running respectably.

Plus, I doubt I'll ever see a twin to my ride sitting next to me at any stoplight or burger joint.

When I started building street machines, it was to kick the asses of the bozos driving new IROC Zs and 5.0 Mustangs at the stoplight drags. While much has changed since then, the mindset has not.

"You bought that. I built this for less than half what you spent, and I'll keep up with you if not leave you in the dust. I am a car builder. You are a car buyer. Please don't think you can 'buy' cool off the showroom floor. You cannot."

It makes sense to keep an eye on the new stuff to see how good they're getting. Personally, when I see a new car, I'm looking for parts to swap into my old car and make it even better. New cars are supposed to be good, and having an old car that's SO much better than it "should be" gives me great joy. It's a joy no new car could possibly bring me. Maybe you're different that way?

~SP~

[GTOnate]

I drive my 1980 Camaro every day, I can buy a new one, I have the money... but I really love my car, nothing special , it is just mine. I got it from my grandpa and it will go to someone in the family when I am too old to get in and out of it anymore. Older cars have souls and memories. That is why the car community as a whole is so close.

[GTOnate]

Also, all those pollution control "thingys" do not bog down performance. They actually increase the efficiency of the engine.

[GTOnate]

for me i love to have something i can play with and work on, but for daily driving i will be purchasing a new car in the next 2 years just because of the warranty. i have the worst luck with things breaking, engines blowing etc. i have been thinking about a 2010 camaro if i can find a dealer that has a 100k warranty. but the only downside to that is that if i had the car i would want to procharge it etc. and then it would kill the warranty and the whole point in buying a new car. so i dont know what ill do since i always want to mod my cars. and i do want something in and around 30 mpg with a warranty. although i hate to admit it ive had good luck with hondas.
My hondas always blow up:machine: That is fine I don't like getting good gas mileage anyway haha

[paul67]

Think how much money you loose on a new car the moment you drive it from the dealership.

[EFI69Cam]

I just looked up c-6 in the wikipedia because I wonderd how it's so fast. I see it's small even for a corvette, it has a lot of carbon fibre parts (I like that a lot) no supercharger but has an aluminum frame? Sounds like a sure sign the car isn't going to last long. when you have a bunch of steel parts bolted to aluminum you get a battery corrosion effect that makes the aluminum corrode fast. Just take a look at the aluminum backing plate of a bumper for a typical 70's car, And they are doing this with a corvette frame?

There is no way to compare the garbage built in the mid 70s to the cars built today.

The current Z06 Corvette is a feat of engineering. 500HP 3200lbs, 25+MPG and if it breaks the dealer can fix it.

[Neil B]

I agree with some of you guys about the C5 Z06 Corvette. These cars are becoming a pretty good value. Many of them on the market have really low miles and tasteful engine upgrades too.

[NvrDun71]

The whole reason I build old cars...

...is to beat new cars.

I don't drop crazy money to make my old cars "perfect". They aren't showpieces. Rather, for less than 20 grand, I build my dream of a unique vintage car that'll hold its own against spankin' new stuff anywhere (street, drag, road course).

I might get dominated by new Vettes, but those owners don't have the satisfaction of building their own rides either. Plus, for less than a 20 grand investment, I'm still capable of being out there and running respectably.

Plus, I doubt I'll ever see a twin to my ride sitting next to me at any stoplight or burger joint.

When I started building street machines, it was to kick the asses of the bozos driving new IROC Zs and 5.0 Mustangs at the stoplight drags. While much has changed since then, the mindset has not.

"You bought that. I built this for less than half what you spent, and I'll keep up with you if not leave you in the dust. I am a car builder. You are a car buyer. Please don't think you can 'buy' cool off the showroom floor. You cannot."

It makes sense to keep an eye on the new stuff to see how good they're getting. Personally, when I see a new car, I'm looking for parts to swap into my old car and make it even better. New cars are supposed to be good, and having an old car that's SO much better than it "should be" gives me great joy. It's a joy no new car could possibly bring me. Maybe you're different that way?

~SP~

Well Said...

[Smock67]

Personally regarless of all the frustrations i've had building my 67 firebird its all been worth it. **** when i first picked it up with no top on the convertible it running on 6 cylinders and open headers i got more looks and thumbs up in that then i ever did in the tiburon i had. Nothing can compare to the feeling of knowing that you have blood sweat and tears into your car and not just ink when signing the checks.

To me building cars isn't about how much it costs if its more or less then a new car. Its that you know you will never pull up next to a car that is the same as yours. Knowing that at least once a day you will have someone ask you something about it. For me nothing can compare i am a car builder.

My brother was in a similar situation he had a 1993 Mazda Rx7 turbo great car but with problems that were above his level of ability messing with 3 different ones over the course of 5 years. He got a 72 Chevelle 454 and it seems as though he has found his love for cars again. He's has problems with it but he thinks of it as well its an old car when things break its time to upgrade. His car is mostly stock appearance wise but the amount of head turns we get when we went cruising in Orlando was unsurmountable. OLD CARS FTMFW

I also can't wait to finish my firebird to get rid of my ram 1500.