FR Powersteering Box - (HERE YE HERE YE - In lies EXCITING post #1)

[Chadman]

Hello everyone! I'm a long time observer of PT Forum, as the collection of knowledge and class of members here is second to none! :hail: ...Until now, I've never really felt the urge or needed to post anything, but after recently hitting a snag... I FEEL THE TIME HAS FINALLY COME!!!

That being said...

I recently did a refresh on all the steering components of my 81 Trans Am (2nd gen, for those not familiar). This included centerlink, tierods, pitman arm, idler arm, steering pump, hoses, and my favorite part (or so I thought) a Flaming River 12:1 steering box.

This box is Part # FR1560 as seen on:
http://http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=330/category_id=191/home_id=80/mode=prod/prd330.htm

So... all steering components go in, box goes in/hooks up perfect. I do the recommended lock-to-lock steering wheel turns to lubricate the box. I drive to a local shop and get the alignment. As I'm driving around, and even well after the alignment/mileage put on car, the box still seems stiff (or resistive) to turning... as though though it were a manual steering.

Does anyone know what the issue could be?

I figure it could be 1 of X things:

1) The box is defective.

Therefore I call FR, sent the box back... There it was tested and said to be in all working order, although the tech guy COULD NOT identify for me if the box was actually load tested. :box2: So who knows.

2) The powersteering belt is not tight and can't cause enough fluid to pump sufficiently.

The belt is fine.

3) I have been told that there is a particular bypass valve in the back of the powersteering pump. It appears (though I no longer have... core refund) that the old pump did not have this. The new pump does? It was also brought to my attention that the FR steering box may not have an internal bypass, that the GM box did possess. (I am not familiar with this and therefore am unaware of the bypass type for either box) Can anyone verify, suggest this? The FR guys claim direct replacement of OEM box, so therefore I deemed this a non-issue in the beginning, and has only now become of concern.

4) Possibly a 12:1 ratio box is too much for the pump/car to handle. And I should use the 14:1 ratio.

I do not feel this should be of issue, as many people run the 12:1 box. I would like to keep this quick ratio for Auto-X.

Now, a few things that I have noticed about the FR box...

- These are actually Delphi steering box with a Billet "Flaming River" cap. A Delphi tech verified this on their very helpful techline.
- The box is EXTREMELY hot to the touch after minor driving. The tech at Delphi said operating temps for their boxes are normally @ 135 C (302 F) and Intermitten @ 150 C (302 F). (Does this seem a bit extreme to anyone???) I suppose I could cook pasta or ramen noodles in my power steering pump if I am ever stranded and starving...:barf: )

Knowing this I have 2 further questions:

1) Is this a normal operating temp. for OEM boxes?
2) If I continued use of the "hot" FR box, would this effect a future install of a hydratech brake system as the PS fluid must pass through this as well. (Could increased temp ruin/effect system performance?)

WELL, not bad for my first post... sorry its long winded, but I really need some answers and I figured this would be the best place to get them!

Until post 2 :woot: ,

Chad

[MrQuick]

Nice first post Chad, concise, detailed explanation, correct spelling, decent grammar and excellent detail.
'golf clap to you my friend.

However, can I ask what your fluid type and if it is foamy or discolored. Is the pump making noise? Such as stop whine or grunting? What pulley are you running? Stock or aftermarket? A lastly, what is your belt tensioned to? 1/2" deflection?

Temps can run that high in extreme cases. Normal driving as you state, the temperatures should not be much higher than engine temp.

I chased my tail for 3 days trying to figure out why my fluid was foamy. Later to find that the spacer between the pump bracket and pump was too thin which left the bolt loose enough for air to enter the system.

Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the big picture.

[David Pozzi]

320 is quite possible for a box that is working fairly hard, but not for a box just driving around in the winter. I shot temps with infared gage and saw up to 360 degrees, but that was at an open track. I'd install a cooler for longer life. There are teflon seals inside the box that won't last forever if it runs any hotter.

Our 73 Camaro at open track days runs cool enough to hold your hand on the remote reservoir. We have a cooler, and the box is an 800 series.

Are you running the pressure line to the correct port? On the 800, it's the one near the engine.

Many rebuilt pumps do not come with outlet fitting or internal flow/pressure valve. Did yours?

With the engine idling, turn the wheel, does the engine slow down?
When you hit full lock, does the pump make a noise?

Don't hold the wheel at full lock more than a couple of seconds, it heats the oil inside the pump.

When the box does not require much boost, it bypasses the oil straight through from inlet to outlet.
David

[Chadman]

Hey guys,

Thanks alot for the input, sorry for the late reply back to this as I've been pretty busy here lately. Anyways, the problem has corrected itself, perhaps the combination of the new pump and a little more breakin time has set things straight. :twothumbs

I would still like to know if anyone could throw 2 cents in on whether or not these operating temperatures would be ok for hydratech braking system... if not what suggestions could be made, perhaps an inline cooler would be ideal to bring the temps down?

[David Pozzi]

I would actually measure how hot it is getting. An infared gun is excellent, or look in the stores for a high reading thermometer. A candy thermometer reads high enough for a radiator, I don't know if it's high enough to read in the 300's.

Adding a hydraboost is fine, but keep it cool. I'd personally like it 300 or below, - add an oil cooler if needed.
David