To Mini Tub or Not to Mini Tub

[Tucks69]

I am getting ready to start on my 69 Camaro. I am straddling the fence on the mini-tub job. Is it really worth all the effort. My dad just mini tubbed his 55 150 and he hates it. How will the car drive with superwide tires on the back. Let me know the Pro's and the Con's.

Mike

[Boesch]

I would take a look at 69 camaro's that you like the look of. Ask the guys what size wheels/tires they are running and if they mini tubbed or not. If you like the look and it takes mini tubs to get it, then go for it. If you like the look of cars with the smaller widths, then there's no point in mini-tubing. Unless you get ridiculous in width (15 inches wide or so) it shouldn't drive bad. Take into consideration that a factory corvette comes with 285 rear tires on it and they drive wonderful.

Dustin

[MrQuick]

I also advise my peeps that are flippin to go ahead with the mini tub and if they don't like it they can always run a "normal" sized rim and tire combo.
It really isn't a permanent thing but its nice to have an option after the fact. Just because you now have a large tub it dosn't mean you have to fill it. But deciding that you want to after its all said and done will cost you later.

If I only had a dollar for every time I heard "man, I should have tubbed it"...wait, I think I do. LOL

[Modo Innovations]

I also advise my peeps that are flippin to go ahead with the mini tub and if they don't like it they can always run a "normal" sized rim and tire combo.
It really isn't a permanent thing but its nice to have an option after the fact. Just because you now have a large tub it dosn't mean you have to fill it. But deciding that you want to after its all said and done will cost you later.

If I only had a dollar for every time I heard "man, I should have tubbed it"...wait, I think I do. LOL

Well said Vince.

[streetk14]

After having a car that is mini-tubbed (with DSE deep tubs), I will never have an older car that is not mini-tubbed. The car looks completely stock from inside the trunk but can fit a set of 11" wide rear wheels with 315 tires with no rubbing, even at full suspension travel. I am changing my wheels soon to 18's, and I will most likely do a 335/30/18 in the back without any issue.

FWIW, I was running the typical 17X9.5" with 5.5" backspace rear wheels that most guys have on 1st gen f-bodies on my other camaro that is not mini-tubbed. I had both 275s and 285s on the back of that car, but did have rubbing issues on the inside when going up driveways at any angle, etc.

I really like being able to fit big tires and not worry one bit about them rubbing. Well worth the investment if you ask me. And like Vince said, there are modern sports cars that come with some wide rubber. 345s on the Viper and 325s on the Z06 just to name a few. I can tell you that my car drives great, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Andy

[Vegas69]

Mini tubbing is a huge deal. It's a huge expense for starters. To do it right you really need custom wheels, narrowed rear end, different suspension, labor,,blah blah blah. It just doesn't make sense to have 600 horsepower with 275's. I say do it if you can afford it. I hate to do this to you:


Ahhh what the hell
Courtesy of SW
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/Dse3-1.jpg
Bad ass

[monza]

Mini Tub for sure, drives great and as said above looks bad ass!
You'll hate the "should have tubbed it dude." That's good advice above.
If your going all out on a restoration, 500+ HP, it would be a shame not to plan it at this stage.....

[brightbuilt]

Mini tubs are the way to go,

I don,t care what it costs, you will be glad you did it. We are just finishing one up right now. 69 RS/SS convertible, 18x8 & 20x11s. It's got a Wayne Doo front clip, Detroit four link, narrowed rear, coilovers & big brakes at all four corners, LS7 drysump, auto trans, custom spintech exhaust, street & performance chrome serpintine kit. Other features include saved firewall, custom inner finders, bad ass gas assisted billit hood hinges, booster & master under dash, under dash vintage air unit, stainless fuel tank. The car is black with black top, red engine & trans, under carrage is bodywork painted and polished to a mirrior shine, custom interior red & black by Recovery Room. ALL & ALL, BAD ASS.

Check out some photos of it at brightbuilthotrods.com Will be posting more photos soon.


JUST TUB IT !

[Tucks69]

Thanks for the advice. I will probably do the mini tub. I guess if i am going to build it, I might as well go all out. At least I have my 68 Camaro Beater to drive. My bonus comes next month so DSE will be getting a call or a visit.


Mike

[68Formula]

I like the look, but decided against it for my situation.

My personal reasons not to mini-tub:

Original rust-free factory metal. Don't have the heart to chop it.
Requires more than just the tubs. Rear seat needs to be removed or notched. Leaf springs moved, or new rear suspension. On a convertible, you'll need to cut and reweld the trunk brace.
Cost. Add up all the above, plus if I were to do it, I'd want a narrowed rearend to get the wide-lip look. Adds up fast! I'm on a tight budget, so I have to be careful about spending too much money in one area. There is plenty more things I will be spending on.
Function. Some say you don't want more than 50mm difference front to rear tread width. If that's true than now you have to figure out how to go wider on the front.


Anyway it looks awesome and probably helps hooking up straightline on low profile tires. But you have to consider the cost and effort and decide for yourself. Go through and plan the build in detail along with the associated cost such that you know exactly what you will need and how much it will cost. Then decide if it's right for your situation.

[Roadrage David]

I did the DSE mini tub , but my mecanic disieded to do it without the U beam and came up with a lesser time consuming option and not cutting up the body work that mutch..

[Part Time]

I did the DSE mini tub , but my mecanic disieded to do it without the U beam and came up with a lesser time consuming option and not cutting up the body work that mutch..


Can we see some shots of the bottom side of this shock mount arrangement? What shocks did you end up going with? Looks like a very smart alternative, providing the shock travel is sufficient. More info. please!

[Roadrage David]

ok here you go. my mecanic did some serius thinking hes into heavy competition raceing with a 68 camaro on cirquits like zolder and spa umnongst others. so this guy know what hes on about. afther seeing the instruction cd that came along with the mini tub system, he was kinda amused and sirprized about the complexeti of it all:pat: :hmm: ..
pictures enclosed.. i have more how it looks now when the car is nearly ready but need to delete some stuf first befor i can put them up here..

[Roadrage David]

Here is how it looks now koni shocks where used(made in holland).. this way it makes it a lot more ez to mini tub for everybody and its just as strong . no damage to the floor,s structual integrety is done. and it looks more wel stock i gues..

[JMarsa]

I consider them a 5K (materials, labor, wheel cost increase, and tire cost increase) option for 2-2.5 inches of tire. It's up to you.

--JMarsa

[bretcopsey]

I consider them a 5K (materials, labor, wheel cost increase, and tire cost increase) option for 2-2.5 inches of tire. It's up to you.

--JMarsa

While this is true if you buy the DSE deep tubs and pay someone to do the install, you could save some cash by going the route many did before the deep tubs were available by splitting the factory tubs and welding in a strip of sheetmetal. Assuming one has the ability to do the work themselves, notching the frame and moving the shocks/springs wouldn't be that difficult either. This is the plan I am going to follow. You would still have the expense of wide rims and tires.

[MarkM66]

I consider them a 5K (materials, labor, wheel cost increase, and tire cost increase) option for 2-2.5 inches of tire. It's up to you.

--JMarsa

That would more then pay for itself in resale. IMO.

[Boesch]

With regards to extra wheel costs, consider that you can get a 10" rim in any diameter from Intro without incurring extra costs. If you want to go above that we have to custom make an outer hoop which adds $600 per wheel. Of course this is only how we handle it, but it gives you an idea.
Dustin

[68Formula]

Like I said plan it out and then price it out in detail before you make a move. Figure out every inch. Gonna narrow the rearend? Different suspension or just move it inboard, what about the rear seat (carpet or notch it), wheel width and backspace, tire size, gas tank narrowing, etc. etc. Don't estimate or guess. Make a spreadsheet listing the modification, parts required, vendor name, and cost. Don't forget to find out shipping as bigger or heavier items can be expensive. Or tax if its local parts or labor. When you are done add about 20% because there are always hidden costs. Then make your decision. And don't forget to be realistic of your own capabilities or the ability to get help from someone else (sometimes promises don't work out and you can find yourself stuck with a half done project).

As for modifications paying for themselves, I find this to be rarely true unless you can do all the work yourself and you consider your labor free.

[NOPANTS-68]

I have the DSE kit on my car. The car drives better IMO with the 315s then it did with the 235s that were on it. If I were to build another car tomorrow, it would be the first mod I did. It is a commitment of time and money, but you can't beat the tire/wheel combo options and looks. Most hardcore Nova people peer into my trunk and still can't see how I run that wide of a tire. Go for it dude!

[ill steez]

I was on the fence about it for a long long time, and finally when it came time for me to redo my rear suspension, I went for it. While I still have not actually gotten my car on the road yet, and I will not be able to afford bigger tires for a little while, I still honestly think that mini tubbing and 4 linking my car are my two favorite things done to it so far. nothing gives the car as much attitude as a low stance with huge tires.

[Nine Ball]

Minitubs are purely cosmetic for 99% of the cars they are installed on, on this site. Wide rear tires look cool, that is the reason most guys install the minitubs. You can get the same deep dish look if you just narrow the rear axle and reduce the backspacing on your custom wheels when you order them. Outward visuals would appear identical, only the rear shot would be a little different due to tire width.

Here is a pic of my previous '69, it had a stock width axle and 17x10 wheels with a 5.5 backspace (Intro wheels). 275 wide tires. Most people asked me if it was minitubbed, it wasn't.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It also didn't need them to get the job done, just a tire swap:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

You just need to ask yourself if the added expensive of the minitubs is worth it to you. Performance-wise, you can make a car handle damn good on the right 275 wide tires. Wider front tires would be more useful than having 345 wide rears. Not many people do mods to increase that front tire width beyond a 245 wide.

[steemin]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It also didn't need them to get the job done, just a tire swap:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Tony,
Excellent points!
That baby was the Swiss Army knife of the 1st gens.
One of my favorites..:cool:
Scott

[Tucks69]

Thanks for all of the advice. I have owned the car 23 years so resale value dosen't matter. The car will have to be pried out of my posession. I have built the car 3 times since my aquiring it in 85. Each time money and lack of a place to work on it kept me from what I call being happy with the end result. I have the killer garage and the funds, to acomplish my goal this time. I will do all the work myself. So I made up my mind to go all out. I have a 68 Camaro that I can at least drive, although it is rough it still turns heads. I will keep everybody posted on the progress. I knew the pro-touring group would cheer me on.

Mike

[monza]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Cool Shot!! I would have guessed at first glance it was tubbed.

[skinnyboy67]

I mini tubbed for the first time....LOVE THE LOOK.....DSE kit was well worth the money for the factory look.
Just go slow...double check before cutting...very simple
I even watched the $25 dvd several times....Not as informative as you would hope, but good for the templates needed for the frame cut-outs

[streetk14]

Tony,
Just makes me wonder what that '69 would have been capable of with a few more inches of rubber in back. Couldn't have hurt, that's for sure.

I also agree that you need to get a decent size tire in front to match. I'm looking to do a 275 in the front to compliment the 335s that are going in the back. Although I do have an Art Morrison C5 sub that frees up room in the front.

I still think the mini-tub is one of the coolest thing about my car, and with 600+ hp and a 6 speed it helps on the street.

Andy

[whytry]

If I only had a dollar for every time I heard "man, I should have tubbed it"...wait, I think I do. LOL


That's me right there!!! I wish I would have mini-tubbed mine before paint.

[Nine Ball]

Tony,
Just makes me wonder what that '69 would have been capable of with a few more inches of rubber in back. Couldn't have hurt, that's for sure.



For drag racing, you only want as much tire size as you can use. If you can hook on smaller tires, your car will run quicker than it would on bigger tires. Bigger tires weigh more, and slow you down on the top end. Looking at that pic above, I wasn't having any traction issues with the 28x10.5 drag slick. What the car could have used was some 4.10 gears instead of 3.73s, that would have been better suited for the 1/4. I was finishing the run in the middle of 4th gear, my trap speeds suffered. But, I built that car to do the Power Tour in, so the 3.73s were nicer on the highway.

[4MuscleMachines]

I would have mini tubbed my car if I could have fit a 275 or 285 tire up front. Since I have a stock subframe, I personally didn't go for it since I want the fronts to look larger than 245 to match the wide rear look a mini tub allows you to fit. 295 rears are good enough for me.

[Rybar]

Personally I would do it 100% if I were doing my project over again. (back then the DSE tub kit was not available) I think if you have your car torn down and are doing metal work, and are planning to replace or purchase a new rear-end, gas tank and suspension. Then I would do it in a heartbeat. It just looks so damn killer with some steamrollers out back. BTW I think SW's black '69 has 8" fronts with 245 tires. And his car looks freakin SICK!!

[Tucks69]

Personally I would do it 100% if I were doing my project over again. (back then the DSE tub kit was not available) I think if you have your car torn down and are doing metal work, and are planning to replace or purchase a new rear-end, gas tank and suspension. Then I would do it in a heartbeat. It just looks so damn killer with some steamrollers out back. BTW I think SW's black '69 has 8" fronts with 245 tires. And his car looks freakin SICK!!

Your car looks so SIC without the tubs. I have my 69 torn almost completly apart. I just installed 4 new floorpans, DSE Firewall block off plate. I plan on installing DSE subframe connectors. The rest of the body is in good shape. I totaled it twice since I have owned it. The only original piece's is the top and tail panel and inner doors.

Mike

[Rybar]

Thanks man, I still think if you have it torn down that far and are planing to buy a new tank and rear-end then tubbing is a no brainer. Trust me, you'll keep wanting or thinking of doing it if you don't. For me it's just too much to tear my whole car apart to gain that extra bit.

[awr68]

you could save some cash by going the route many did before the deep tubs were available, by splitting the factory tubs and welding in a strip of sheetmetal.

This is what I had to do since I did mine long before the Deep Tubs were available. It doubles the man hours...but saves some cash. If I was to do it again today and had the cash I would just buy the DSE DT's.

After seeing the first mock-up pic of The Mule I knew I was going to buy a welder and go for it!! :)

[TA219]

I am in the "no tub club" at the moment, not because i dont like them, just because of the cost involved. I knew that if i was going to get my car on the road in under a decade i would have to make certain compromises for now, the tubs were one.... but i honestly dont feel too bad about it since i know that with a little bit of work a 275 (or even 285 according to some) can fit in stock tubs and with a good tire you should have good traction.

As for the future, once the car is completed there will be several things that i re-visit and mini-tubs may be one. :)

[Serpa69]

Thanks for all of the advice. I have owned the car 23 years so resale value dosen't matter. The car will have to be pried out of my posession. I have built the car 3 times since my aquiring it in 85. Each time money and lack of a place to work on it kept me from what I call being happy with the end result. I have the killer garage and the funds, to acomplish my goal this time. I will do all the work myself. So I made up my mind to go all out. I have a 68 Camaro that I can at least drive, although it is rough it still turns heads. I will keep everybody posted on the progress. I knew the pro-touring group would cheer me on.

Mike

Keep it up I got mine in 1989 and have built it a couple of times myself. I have always just did to the car that I thought looked good. Half the people here will say they like something the other will say nicely that it sucks.