A-body front suspension - SC&C or ATS?

[derekf]

The time to spend money I don't have rapidly approaches, mainly because there's no front suspension under my car anymore.

However, I can't really decide which one to go with between the SC&C Stage II setup, or the ATS tall spindles. I dug through all manner of details trying to find if one had any clear advantage, and here's what I came up with:

(okay, I tried to make a table but it isn't working)
Cost:
SC&C Stage 2 cost: 719.90 (rubber bushing version)
ATS cost w/ steering arms: 810.00
Advantage: SC&C (maybe ATS if there's a GP)

UCAs:
SC&C: included
ATS: Not included
Advantage: SC&C

Ball Joints:
SC&C: Rebuildable Howe
ATS: Stock GM
Advantage: SC&C (kinda -- rebuildable vs ease of parts availability)

Benefits:
SC&C: Camber curve, improved bumpsteer, improved roll center height
ATS: Same, plus ABS sensor
Advantage: ATS, if I can find any use for the ABS sensor.

Brake Brackets:
SC&C: Not included. Use conversion or stock brakes.
ATS: C5/C6 bracket built-in
Advantage: ATS

Other considerations:
SC&C: Stock cast-iron spindle
ATS: Aluminum spindle, probably less unsprung weight.

Are there any other factors I've not contemplated? I've purchased too much front suspension stuff already -- GW UCAs, Speedtech caliper brackets, C5 front calipers, B-body spindles, etc... so not having to buy more stuff would be a bonus.

On their own merits, not counting the differences in brake mounting, do either of these really outshine the other, or is it just a matter of preference?

If I've got the GW uppers, can I save money on the SC&C setup by just getting the upper balljoints to fit them instead of the set with the new uppers? Similarly, will the GW uppers work with the ATS spindles? Is using the GW parts a bad idea all around anyway, even if they would work?

The usage of the car would be primarily as a spirited daily driver, maybe it'll eventually see a track and maybe it won't. Both of these setups might be overkill, but something better than the stock A-body setup is needed.

[bochnak]

I aksed the same Q:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202497&highlight=ats

[6'9"Witha69]

Well, thje C5 calipers will mount right up and rotors are $25 each (more if you mant slotted, xdrilled, etc) so the ATS uprights seem to be the choice right there. The AFX spindles will work with the GW UCAs (IIRC). Sounds like you have everything you need to make the AFX spindles work without a lot of work or $ into brakes. And rotor replacement costs are far less for the C5 stuff as many people 'track n toss' rotors they are so inexpensive.

[Derek69SS]

I have a Chevelle with each... the Stage II+ has the clear price advantage for a mild car with stock brakes, or if you already have upgraded brakes for your stock spindles.

Once you factor in the cost of upgrading to big brakes (C5 vette) to your stock spindles, the AFX spindle setup doesn't seem that expensive anymore.

AFX also has some geometry and weight advantages. :)

[megaladon6]

i was looking at putting f-body spindles/SC&C UCA's and the KORE3 kit into my monte but when i saw and priced out the AFX and KORE3 it was only something like $200 more.
plus the bearing packs are much better than the old style wheel bearings.

[zbugger]

Derek, personally, seeing that you have the brake calipers and upper control arms already, I'd say to get the AFX spindles. They are a great buy and will make a ton of difference you will notice when installed. The brake advantage is worth the price, in my opinion. You can later, if you so choose, get a set of adjustable upper arms and tall ball joints from SC&C. That, while not entirely necessary, would make you suspension VERY aggressive. I say get the spindles.

[Derek69SS]

BTW, there's no reason you couldn't run just the tall BJs with your GW UCAs instead of buying the whole package from Mark. You can save yourself some money there. :) Also, stock spindles are forged steel, not cast-iron.

[derekf]

Derek - thanks, that's part of what I was asking, and I stand corrected on what the spindles are made of.

Nick, Allen, megaladon, bochnak - thanks for your thoughts.

Anyone can confirm Nick's memory of being able to use the GW UCAs with the AFX pieces, or failing that, the stock UCAs (believe I remember reading about UBJ bind in that case though)

[7TSS]

Anyone can confirm Nick's memory of being able to use the GW UCAs with the AFX pieces, or failing that, the stock UCAs (believe I remember reading about UBJ bind in that case though)
You can use the GW UCA's w/ the AFX spindles. Just make sure you tell them that you're replacing a B-body setup (assuming you have the ball joints for the B-body installed already) so they can set you up with the correct ball joint adapters in the spindles. Then it'll be a direct swap.

[bochnak]

Stock spindles will allow you to slowly upgrade all components vs. the AFX which will require brakes at the same time. It's a big $$$$ all at once.

[Marcus SC&C]

Well you`re comparing basically the two best choices on the market so you really can`t go wrong either way. You can run Stage 2 or even 2-Plus ball joints on GW arm with just a little bit of clearancing on the upper arms (their ball joints are physically just a bit smaller) and you`ll get very good geometry and performance. Or you can ditch the stock spindles and bolt the AFX ones in their place and get very good geometry and performance with those too. The geometry is just a bit better and the aluminum spindles are undeniably cool. They can be used with GW B body swap/Negative Roll arms but NOT Cat5 or G Plus arms. If the brake brackets you have are for the stock spindles I`d probably neam toward the tall ball joints. If they don`t I`d sell em along with the B spindles and get the AFX spindles. I designed the StreetComp tall ball joint packages and collaborated with ATS on the A body AFX spindle conversion too FWIW. Both are great choices. If you liek feel free to give me a call and I can go over the +`s and -`s with you. Mark SC&C

[derekf]

Not to bring this back to the top, but just to add important detail for others:

Per Tyler, the "Negative Roll" GW arms will NOT work with the AFX spindles.

[andrewb70]

Not to bring this back to the top, but just to add important detail for others:

Per Tyler, the "Negative Roll" GW arms will NOT work with the AFX spindles.

So I heard...Global West does offer upper control arms that are compatible with the AFX spindles.

Andrew

[HWYSTR]

I was one of the 1st 50 with the ATS spindles, and found out about the a-arm compatibility thing. It actually was just a typo that was corrected quickly. GW is good about swapping parts as long as they haven't been mounted/damaged. Mine were mounted, which is how I found out, though they were still nice enough to swap. (Whew!).

Teetoe needed some convincing that there was a market for the B/F spindle, and after I was able to prove, he went with it. (And thanks 'Tommy' in Texas for donating the original spindles!).

Needless to say, after running several different setups on a 68-72 A, I feel the ATS spindles with GW arms is hands-down the best setup out there, and I can't thank Teetoe enough for keeping the price down. It was a major leap of faith, hope he feels vindicated!