FWD motor, RWD car

[dusterbd13]

ok, im starting to get serious about the S10 track truck that ive been wanting to build. like going to pull-a-part over in charlotte regularly looking for engines serious. now if i could only find the truck...

anyway, my origonal plan was to use an LT1 out of a caprice, with a 6 speed. now i cant find one thats even a decent core. then i thought about a 350 short block with L98 vette top end and a richmond 4+3. already have some of the parts, but i just dont dig that idea.
which brings me to my next question. while at pull-a-part, i keep seeing the buick 3800 blower motors, complete. havent pulled any pans or heads yet, but the look unmolested and fairly well treated. my thinking is, that the 3800 is a 60 degree v-6. much like the 2.8 from the S10. supposedly it shares the same bellhousing toth the 2.8, as well asthe camaro 3.4. dunnop about flywheels, but ive heard that the 3800 series motors came in the 4th gens. has anyone ever heard of using a FWD v-6 in a rear drive car? i have no idea about how to work out the wiring yet, but im assuming it shouldnt be too bad. especially with the help of this site. same with the belt drive, etc.
would it be wirth it as far as the availibility, weight, and power level go? this will be an extreme budget build, as we just bought a house and disposable income is at a minimum. any resources, suggestions, or comments on this idea? id back it up with a five speed from a 4.3 astro van because of the shofter location and ratios.

let me know, and if this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it.

Michael

[BlindSideCustoms]

if you were going to invest the cash into a 3.8 why not just go for a 4.3l. stock for stock the 4.3l has more power, the one in my xtreme had "keyword had" 200 from the factory. their are an abundance of parts, 350 pistons/rods will work as far as i know O:) the vortec v6 already has alot of good things done to it from the factory. the 3800 if your refering to the one they placed in the older buicks/pontiacs is a turd if thats what your refering to, i dont even pay attention to any non 4.3l v6's lol. also since your on a budget you could easily find parts for a 4.3 such as the adaptable 350 parts. you could find a vortec 4.3 from 500-1k out of the older s10s and mainly blazers. or around 2k for a newer updated version. if your in need of one give me a shout im around winston-salem and we have a blazer we would part with that has a 4.3 in it we would let go cheap. or if you want to feel some vortec power ill have my truck ready in a few weeks and i could show you what a few mods to a 4.3 will do. well hell anything you need to know about a s10 or modding them holla at me. id be glad to help you out.

oh yeah here is one of my x's
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[BlindSideCustoms]

oh and one thing the vortec is good for.....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
my first xtreme

[EFI69Cam]

the 3800 if your refering to the one they placed in the older buicks/pontiacs is a turd if thats what your refering to,

I hope the GN dudes don't find this.

[twosaturns]

ok, im starting to get serious about the S10 track truck that ive been wanting to build. like going to pull-a-part over in charlotte regularly looking for engines serious. now if i could only find the truck...

anyway, my origonal plan was to use an LT1 out of a caprice, with a 6 speed. now i cant find one thats even a decent core. then i thought about a 350 short block with L98 vette top end and a richmond 4+3. already have some of the parts, but i just dont dig that idea.
which brings me to my next question. while at pull-a-part, i keep seeing the buick 3800 blower motors, complete. havent pulled any pans or heads yet, but the look unmolested and fairly well treated. my thinking is, that the 3800 is a 60 degree v-6. much like the 2.8 from the S10. supposedly it shares the same bellhousing toth the 2.8, as well asthe camaro 3.4. dunnop about flywheels, but ive heard that the 3800 series motors came in the 4th gens. has anyone ever heard of using a FWD v-6 in a rear drive car? i have no idea about how to work out the wiring yet, but im assuming it shouldnt be too bad. especially with the help of this site. same with the belt drive, etc.
would it be wirth it as far as the availibility, weight, and power level go? this will be an extreme budget build, as we just bought a house and disposable income is at a minimum. any resources, suggestions, or comments on this idea? id back it up with a five speed from a 4.3 astro van because of the shofter location and ratios.

let me know, and if this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it.

Michael

the 3800 was originally a RWD engine, the 3.8. prob just a matter of getting the right mounts fabbed up. there are plenty of parts for that supercharged 3800 as well. there is a gen II and a gen III; don't know which is preferred. both are listed at the goodwrench performance crate engine sites.

[Paul_J]

Isn't the 3800 in the GN a 90 deg.? And it's also an even fire engine. Should have the BOP bell housing pattern.

[Beige]

The 3800 is a 90 deg engine, but it has the 60 deg v6 bellhousing bolt pattern.
3.8's have the BOP pattern.

The 60 degree v6 has the starter on one side for the rwd applications and the other side for FWD cars to clear the halfshafts.
The 3800 is supposed to have the starter on the drivers side of the motor like a FWD car even in RWD applications. (I haven't had to change the starter in one, so I can't verify that.)

The T-45 in the f-body 3800's is a strange mix of Ford and GM parts and you can't swap the bellhousing from one to a t-5. (the bellhousing to trans pattern is ford) But it has the F-body traits of a rotated bellhousing mount pattern and trans mount pad being at a different angle.

So your options are:
Use the F-body transmission and make it fit.
Use an s-10 trans, but see if the 2.8 starter will work if you drill and tap mounting holes on the passenger side of the 3800 block. (I've seen s-10 3.4's used in fwd cars this way.)
Use a different transmission altogether and have an adapter plate made. You may also have to notch the bellhousing of that trans to clear the starter.

Northstars should be priced about the same as the 3800's, it has the same bolt pattern as the 60 degree v6, but the starter is in the "lifter valley" (instead of the lifters, being a quad cam engine and all) and all you need to hack out of the bellhousing is a tiny chunk at the top so the starter pinion can engage. Plus you get 275-300hp. Expect to use an aftermarket EFI setup, though.

Have you looked at GenIII v8's out of newer trucks?

[jackfrost]

just get the whole drivetrain from a FWD car and drop it in the bed of your S10. you'd have to do some fab work, but weight distribution would be better. not to mention how frickin cool that would be.:bananna2:

[BlindSideCustoms]

NO I WASNT LOOKING AT IT LIKE THAT! i love grand nationals, but i was thinking he was refering to the engine in the newer fwd buick and olds, their completely different arent they?

[BlindSideCustoms]

also yes the gn 3.8t would be sweet in a s10! but they are completely different "just read up on it to make sure i wasnt a idiot. the bellhousing wont fit up, the starter is on the wrong side, the mounts wont even mount up. so hah! i got it.

[andrewb70]

Why not a Gen III/IV small block swap?

Andrew

[BlindSideCustoms]

i would be worried about the traction issues with a sbc, after 300hp every one ive seen just blows the tires off "street tires" considering their is no weight in the back, unless you did some crazy suspension work if hes in a gen1 s10. newer models ive seen hold power better but would still need something worked to get traction.

[showa]

Here's an example of a FWD engine in a RWD car....
www.stalkerv6.com

[andrewb70]

i would be worried about the traction issues with a sbc, after 300hp every one ive seen just blows the tires off "street tires" considering their is no weight in the back, unless you did some crazy suspension work if hes in a gen1 s10. newer models ive seen hold power better but would still need something worked to get traction.

Why not a stocking 5.3L? Maybe even find an aluminum block version.

Andrew

[dusterbd13]

ok, the whole build of this truck will have to be done for under 2008 bucks so i can compete in the GRM challenge with it, as well as keeping my wife from killing me for spending a bunch of money on another truck.

i do believe that this makes the LS series motors out of my price range, as well as possibly the gen II/III motors.

the idea of a mid engined all wheel drive S10 has had me tweaked all day. i know i could do it, but not under budget constraints. would be super cool though. maybe with a turbo'd northstar.....


anyway, i like the idea of the blown V-6. especially with some home ported heads and throttle body. i am, however, still confused about the bellhousing/flywheel/tans. making motor mounts shouldnt be too much of a hassle.
from what im able to comprehend, the bellhousing is a 60 degree v-6 unit, possibly BOP. does that make it similar/the same bellhousing as a 2.8 S10? if so, that would allow me to use an astro T5 based five speed instead of the funky camaro unit, right? also, the starter will be on the wrong side for an S10 bellhousing, necessitating drilling and tapping holes for a starter mount, or modifying the bellhousing. is this correct? as far as the flywheel goes, what one do i get? Camaro 3800?

and while were at it, i cant seem to find the differences between the gen II and gen III motors, nor their model runs. anyone care to educate me?

the reason i veto'd the northstar was twofold. 1. could not find a junkyard sourced flywheel. 2. i cant fabricate headers to save my life. but it crossed my mind, especially after being run with a megasquirt or some such.

thanks, and please keep it up.
Michael

[jackfrost]

AWD would definitely put you over the top, but there are several 3800 supercharged engines on ebay right now for about $750.

[matthimself456]

Search my username in the manual transmission section for a link to some Jeep site. Junkyard parts exist to hook up a FWD 3800 v-6 to a Toyota Supra / Jeep Wrangler 5-speed transmission. Who knew a sportscar and an off-road rig had basically the same tranny? With slight modifications to the bellhousing a northstar would bolt up too. You're on your own with a clutch setup for the N* though.

[EFI69Cam]

ok, the whole build of this truck will have to be done for under 2008 bucks so i can compete in the GRM challenge with it, as well as keeping my wife from killing me for spending a bunch of money on another truck.

i do believe that this makes the LS series motors out of my price range, as well as possibly the gen II/III motors.

the idea of a mid engined all wheel drive S10 has had me tweaked all day. i know i could do it, but not under budget constraints. would be super cool though. maybe with a turbo'd northstar.....


anyway, i like the idea of the blown V-6. especially with some home ported heads and throttle body. i am, however, still confused about the bellhousing/flywheel/tans. making motor mounts shouldnt be too much of a hassle.
from what im able to comprehend, the bellhousing is a 60 degree v-6 unit, possibly BOP. does that make it similar/the same bellhousing as a 2.8 S10? if so, that would allow me to use an astro T5 based five speed instead of the funky camaro unit, right? also, the starter will be on the wrong side for an S10 bellhousing, necessitating drilling and tapping holes for a starter mount, or modifying the bellhousing. is this correct? as far as the flywheel goes, what one do i get? Camaro 3800?

and while were at it, i cant seem to find the differences between the gen II and gen III motors, nor their model runs. anyone care to educate me?

the reason i veto'd the northstar was twofold. 1. could not find a junkyard sourced flywheel. 2. i cant fabricate headers to save my life. but it crossed my mind, especially after being run with a megasquirt or some such.

thanks, and please keep it up.
Michael

There is much information on SC 3800s to be found on the GTP and Buick GS boards.
The SC 3800 is one of GMs best engines.

[matthimself456]

This idea kind of sparked my interest so I researched a bit. How does a supercharges 3.8 with a 5-speed and awd sound? Use a fwd motor, a bellhousing from a 96-99 4-cyl / 5 speed Dodgle Dakota, a clutch for a 3.8l 5-speed 4th gen Camaro / Firebird, an Aisin AX-15 5-speed manual transmission from a Jeep Wrangler, and a NP-249 AWD viscious coupling transfer case from a Cherokee. This transfer case work on the exact same priciple as a Syclone / Typhoon / Bravada / Astro transfer case but bolts directly to the back of the 5-speed transmission. Start with a 4x4 s-10 (same exact frame and suspension as a Sy/Ty) and you're all set. You would basically end up with a Typhoon but with an SC3800, a manual transmission and a much, much lower price-tag.

[dusterbd13]

Matt:
my god, man. thats just sick. can you by any chance give me the references that you used to develop this?
also, i amy go with a northstar after all, as i found out on a N* Fiero swap site that they use a rebalance 2.8 flywheel. and my machine shop said they'd do it for supercheap just to see this project get off the ground. still leaves me with headers and computer though, but im sure that you guys and the fiero guys can help that out.

what is alo killing me is that i went to pick up the motor yesterday, regardless of me nothaving a truck to strap it into. None whatsoever in the yard anymore. i'll keep looking, but i found a bunch if nice looking northstars for about 20 bucks more. gotta love pull-a-parts prices. almost bought one, but the flywheel issue kept bugging me, and the superbowl was coming on soon.

anyway, keep up the suggestiopns. the upcoming months will see the beginning of this build. think high end attention to detail on a beer budget street brawler.

Michael

[matty b]

why not buy a a slightly used 5.3 LM7 outta a newer SUV or pickup?? They are just a smaller bore LS1 with a cast block. You can buy these DIRT cheap, like under $1k cheap. If you want to, you can bore it out and run ls1 pistons and you have a cast iron 5.7 for pennys. Then you get all the aftermarket support of the LSx motors without the upfront cost of the aluminum block motors. This is by and far the most cost effective way to go IMO and FYI I am going this route as well since I plan to boost my motor and like the strength of a cast block.

[matthimself456]

Sent you a PM, Dusterbd13. I'd love to discuss it more. If you could do a little screamer like this for $2008 it would be totally killer. Id already have it started if I had $2008, some spare time, and a spare garage bay.